Has Anyone Gotten on Disability?

[Bill Bauer]

Personally I couldn't give a toss about where a marginal percentage of my income goes, as long as the government is ensuring the needy benefit from it.

First of all, what gives you the right to speak for anyone else, besides yourself? Second of all, the problem is that the government will just mismanage the money. The reason is that the officials have no personal stake in the outcome. In fact, if they fail to deliver, their budget gets increased. The same goals can be achieved to a better extent and at a lower cost.

And it's going to get a lot more difficult anyway as the labour market faces the future of automation, which will essentially annihilate entire workforces, leading to an inevitable increase in demand for welfare aid.

I think it will go the other way: Technological progress will soon follow our standard of living (that has reached a peak and is now in free fall). If you are right, then of course everyone's way of life will have to change, and what didn't make sense before, might start making sense. But we are decades away from that, so it is irrelevant.

 

[Emperor-Drax]

First of all, what gives you the right to speak for anyone else, besides yourself? Second of all, the problem is that the government will just mismanage the money. The reason is that the officials have no personal stake in the outcome. In fact, if they fail to deliver, their budget gets increased. The same goals can be achieved to a better extent and at a lower cost.

They're also overseen by Congressional Committees, so that the public funds are spent accordingly. In Australia, we have a similar mechanism in government called Senate Estimates. Does the government make mistakes? Certainly, it's not infallible. But there's no way it should be leaving vulnerable people out to fend for themselves.

We in Western societies should be using public assets to ensure the poor have a safety net. If they're at the mercy of charities, they lack the protections they might be entitled to through a public system.

I know "entitlement" is a dirty word to the American conservative movement that believes individuals are owed nothing, but from a humanitarian standpoint, that's just not true. The government has a responsibility to care for its citizens experiencing poverty and hardship.

 

[Drone Draper]

I briefly thought about this route until I realised that

A) It's incredibly hard to get on disability for tinnitus where I live. The amount of effort of filling in forms, pleading, waiting, etc would mean I would be better off going for a less stressful McJob somewhere.
B) The amount you get is not very much, I would rather keep my salary.
C) My tinnitus is not as bad as those who legitimately cannot work because it's too intrusive
D) I wouldn't be doing myself any good by going on disability. I would just sit at home and spend even MORE of my time on here. I am better off working and donating money towards research, which reminds me I should do that this week.

 

[Michael Leigh]

It's incredibly hard to get on disability for tinnitus where I live. The amount of effort of filling in forms, pleading,

Contrary to popular belief this is not the case in the UK. Once a certain criteria is met, most people are treated with respect and understanding that's deserved, when tinnitus is found to be debilitating and preventing a person from working.

I have addressed this subject before and will not be commenting further.
Michael

 

[Drone Draper]

Ooh, thanks for the head's up, Michael, I was informed otherwise. I'll look for your info so I can inform others.

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Drone Draper

If you need help PM me and I will advise you but will not be mentioning anything regarding this subject in the forum.
Michael

 

[hans799]

First of all, what gives you the right to speak for anyone else, besides yourself? Second of all, the problem is that the government will just mismanage the money. The reason is that the officials have no personal stake in the outcome. In fact, if they fail to deliver, their budget gets increased. The same goals can be achieved to a better extent and at a lower cost.

I think it will go the other way: Technological progress will soon follow our standard of living (that has reached a peak and is now in free fall). If you are right, then of course everyone's way of life will have to change, and what didn't make sense before, might start making sense. But we are decades away from that, so it is irrelevant.

I've been reading this new book that came out yesterday, "The Uninhabitable Earth". It's a well-written, maybe a bit overdramatized summary of the current state of climate science and the possible futures that await us. The scenario we're currently on track of foresees massive economic damage already by 2050, with refugee numbers far outstripping anything we've ever seen before (order of tens of millions). I think that under such crushing burdens, the welfare state as a model is going to be completely unsustainable. So the question won't be "who gets rich off the windfall of robots", but "how do we procure enough resources to keep our societies from collapsing entirely". Very sad. Also bad news for the future of hearing research...

As for disability, in my Central European country it is relatively manageable to get on it, but you need to prove really well that you have a problem. And tinnitus being not objectively verifiable... it's a tricky business. I don't know anyone who managed to do it because of T.

 

[Drone Draper]

Thanks for the offer, that's very nice of you. Hopefully I won't need to take you up on it!

 

[Michael Leigh]

Thanks for the offer, that's very nice of you. Hopefully I won't need to take you up on it!

Hopefully you won't.

There are people that want to claim disability for their tinnitus when it's not serious or debilitating enough and for this reason, certain criteria has to be met and investigations are carried out. Simply getting a Dr's note to say you have tinnitus, is not going to get a person far, that I can assure you.

All the best
Michael

 

[Drone Draper]

I know of one tinnitus "faker" who used to work with my mother in the public sector.

Initially he used the excuse to get out of conscripted military service, eventually he used it as a way to shirk job responsibilities and eventually retired early. He confided in my mother that it was intermittent and mild.

I used to take a dim view of him as I met him a few times growing up, but now I feel nothing but disgust.

 

[SugarMagnolia]

Who said compassion is a virtue?

I say it, Bill. Compassion is not merely a virtue, it is the virtue. Without it, we are worse than any and every animal species. Even from an ethical egoist perspective, it is the rational way to go because no one knows if they might someday need to rely on others.

I really want to be able to work until 67, but I might need to go out on disability (not for tinnitus). I would rather work than be disabled. I think nearly everyone would. Work is eight hours a day, five days a week. Being disabled is 24/7 suffering with no days off ever.

 

[Audiophile_bg]

Tinnitus sucks. But nothing sucks so much that they deserve "free money" that's actually just stolen from others.

You can only believe it's stolen if you think taxation is theft.
Which it's not.

 

[Bill Bauer]

with refugee numbers far outstripping anything we've ever seen before (order of tens of millions)

There was wide-spread famine in Africa in 1970s and 1980s, but there were no refugees.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Compassion is not merely a virtue, it is the virtue.

Unfortunately it is also the cause of most problems and human suffering. To put it in simple terms: To achieve anything in life, one needs to experience discomfort (exerting one's muscles when one is an athlete, having to read boring text instead of having fun when one is a student, etc). "Compassion" is insisting that society doesn't experience discomfort. As a result, the society's rate of growth and development will stop or at least slow, and in the long run more people will have to experience discomfort that would not be necessary had we achieved the progress that was denied to us by the "compassionate" folks.

You can only believe it's stolen if you think taxation is theft. Which it's not.

How so? If you refuse to comply, men with guns will come to your home and make you comply.

 

[Audiophile_bg]

Unfortunately it is also the cause of most problems and human suffering. To put it in simple terms: To achieve anything in life, one needs to experience discomfort (exerting one's muscles when one is an athlete, having to read boring text instead of having fun when one is a student, etc). "Compassion" is insisting that society doesn't experience discomfort. As a result, the society's rate of growth and development will stop or at least slow, and in the long run more people will have to experience discomfort that would not be necessary had we achieved the progress that was denied to us by the "compassionate" folks.

How so? If you refuse to comply, men with guns will come to your home and make you comply.

Because taxes go into the maintenance of the infrastructure that we all use. So unless you plan to live outside of civilization, you need to pay taxes.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I really want to be able to work until 67, but I might need to go out on disability (not for tinnitus). I would rather work than be disabled. I think nearly everyone would. Work is eight hours a day, five days a week. Being disabled is 24/7 suffering with no days off ever.

I agree with you. However, when one's health fails them by whatever means they may have no choice than to claim disability. I and many people know how debilitating tinnitus can be. I am not talking about people that have the occasional spike and are able to regularly post on forums and work or attend school or college etc. These people do not have seriously debilitating tinnitus, where medication and other forms of treatment are required to get through daily life.

Michael

 

[Bill Bauer]

Because taxes go into the maintenance of the infrastructure that we all use. So unless you plan to live outside of civilization, you need to pay taxes.

What fraction of the taxes are used on infrastructure?

In 2014, US Federal tax revenues were $3 trillion.
https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762
The State tax revenues were $0.87 trillion.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-67.html
The spending on the infrastructure was $0.42 trillion.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52463
So the fraction is about 10%. Moreover, a lot of this could have been done by the private sector (and it would have been of higher quality and would have a lower cost).

 

[Emperor-Drax]

Because taxes go into the maintenance of the infrastructure that we all use. So unless you plan to live outside of civilization, you need to pay taxes.

I think Bill took Ayn Rand a bit too seriously.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I think Bill took Ayn Rand a bit too seriously.

I spent time living in the USSR. For me, it is not all theory. Enough said.

 

[sirhand]

I think nearly everyone would.

That's a really sweet and innocent world view, but it's wrong, many people are animals that take what they can.

Because taxes go into the maintenance of the infrastructure that we all use.

But we're talking about when it's given to a person to spend on themself.

 

[Emperor-Drax]

Moreover, a lot of this could have been done by the private sector (and it would have been of higher quality and would have a lower cost).

Okay, this is interesting.

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in Australia, the private sector executes infrastructure projects anyway. The process essentually goes that the state government approves a project (like a road or railway for example) following an indepth assessment, then it allocates funding and launches a tender process to hire a private contractor to carry out the project. Often for larger projects, it's called a 'Public Private Partnership'. Very rarely, if ever, have I seen the government take on building a whole infrastructure project by itself. They always outsource this stuff.

If what you're proposing is a totally laissez faire system, then you're going run into big problems without a centralised mediating public institution to plan, approve and oversee these projects to ensure they're compliant with existing statutes and regulations. You'd end up with something like Gotham City in the 1989 Batman where the city looks like it's been over-developed by the mafia because of the lack of building regulations.

 

[Drone Draper]

That's a really sweet and innocent world view, but it's wrong, many people are animals that take what they can.

Agreed. I know a disconcerting amount of people who are claiming disability illegitimately or who claim job seeker's allowance while basically just bumming around.

 

[SugarMagnolia]

I would rather work 365 days a year than go to a doctor's office for one minute.

 

[Audiophile_bg]

While I don't think living off disability is a happy existence, it's better than perishing without a support network.
And having socialised healthcare doesn't mean we will become USSR.

 

[Emperor-Drax]

While I don't think living off disability is a happy existence, it's better than perishing without a support network.
And having socialised healthcare doesn't mean we will become USSR.

Exactly. In Australia, we have a reliable public healthcare system and we haven't become a communist dictatorship.

 

[Bill Bauer]

And having socialised healthcare doesn't mean we will become USSR.

It is already exactly the same, in many but not all aspects, as it used to be in the USSR.

In Australia, we have a reliable public healthcare system and we haven't become a communist dictatorship.

We have that in Canada too. Have you ever been to the United States? I've been to all three countries multiple times. Go the nearest supermarket, and then you will know that both Canada and Australia are poorer than the US. The average salary is lower, AND the prices at the supermarket are higher (the prices at Australian supermarkets are 2-4 TIMES higher than they are in the United States). If you think your government's policies are good for the poor, think again.

You don't have to live this way. In any case, none of it is up to us, so I guess we Do have to have whatever lifestyle "they" want us to have.

 

[Emperor-Drax]

It is already exactly the same, in many but not all aspects, as it used to be in the USSR.

We have that in Canada too. Have you ever been to the United States? I've been to all three countries multiple times. Go the nearest supermarket, and then you will know that both Canada and Australia are poorer than the US. The average salary is lower, AND the prices at the supermarket are higher (the prices at Australian supermarkets are 2-4 TIMES higher than they are in the United States). If you think your government's policies are good for the poor, think again.

You don't have to live this way. In any case, none of it is up to us, so I guess we Do have to have whatever lifestyle "they" want us to have.

"You don't have to live this way" - oh my god, could your condescension be any more blatant? You make it sound like we're all dying in agony in the streets!

Australians generally experience a higher standard of living than Americans, mainly because of our more immediate access to health care, more robust social safety nets, stronger labour unions, and are far less likely to live in poverty (and those who do have better chances at securing public housing). And although superficially it might look to you that things are more expensive here, our dollar isn't valued as highly as the US dollar, but our higher wages and better job security help us meet those shortfalls more efficiently than Americans who seem to always be looking over their shoulders for the next round of firings. Speaking of, our recent experience with gun violence is almost nil. Racial and sectarian violence is almost unheard of here too.

In a nutshell, if you are poor or are a low to middle income earner, you'll experience significantly less stress in Australia than you would in the US. But if you're a high income earner, some of those more lenient tax breaks the US seems to brag about might make that nation more attractive.

 

[Tamara]

In my country is like that:
There is a list of disease, made 40 years ago, that you can retire for disability with your full salary. If you have tinnitus or other disease that is not present in this list, you will receive around 23% of your salary, even if you contributed every month of your work during 20 years, the same others who retire with full salary did. This list of diseases has never been reviewed. There are,already, diseases there that are not serious and that have complete cure. Tinnitus will be there, maybe, in 1000 years.
What I can not understand is that the two are retired due to disability. What matters is the name of the disease being on this list and not how the person is clinically, as math. And other thing: no level of depression is on this list.
What do you think of this? I would like to know.

 

[coffee_girl]

My family were refugees to the US and now that they are upper class I can see the extreme difference in the way we've lived when i was a kid and how we are living now.

All I know is that if it wasn't for the US social system my family definitely would not be able to climb out of the poverty we were in. Immigrants to an over crowded country, parents were in their 20s without knowing a lick of English, living in the ghetto, and going to a public school where the teachers were constantly suspended for poor performance.

It was the kindness of a handful of Americans (mostly teachers) who helped us and really went out of their way for us. If it wasn't for the measly amount that we got every month just to buy basic supplies, my brothers and i would be going to school with holes in our shoes.

So yes the social system is flawed, and possible overly abused. But it is absolutely necessary-- because kids don't have a say in their parent's bad choices.

 

[Ken219]

You can only believe it's stolen if you think taxation is theft.
Which it's not.

why a hammer cost $700.00! A toilet seat cost $1,000.00. A bolt cost $10.00. The nut to the bolt is another $10.00. Air Force's $1,200 Coffee Cup