Has Anyone Heard of Vertebral Subluxation?

[Mathew Gould]

I had a massage today, trigger point massage and the lady mentioned this chiropractor that does vertebral subluxation. Has anyone heard of this??

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Mathew Gould In chiropractic, a vertebral subluxation is a supposed misalignment which is categorized as pseudoscience by other chiropractors who won't do this procedure. The reason is that any deviance isn't detectable on an imaging exam or X Ray. Chiropractors that do this, have to term it as vertebral subluxation and not use a medical accepted term as this condition isn't seen on a X Ray or other imaging.

 

[Lane]

chiropractor that does vertebral subluxation.

Hi @Mathew Gould,

"Does" vertebral subluxation, or "treats" vertebral subluxation?​

 

[Mathew Gould]

Seen this chiro today. He took an XRay, barely cracked my back and did the vertebral subluxation with this tool(s) a few times. He prob spent 20 mins talking to me and the first appt charge was $145, all other appts are $50 I think. I still feel the same. My question is how many appts should I go to this guy to give him a chance to make me better??

 

[Mattv]

I had the same quandary a while ago. I had what I thought was some success with it, but turned out to be short lived, even with continued treatments (and payments). My opinion now is that chiropractic can help in the same way that massage can help. The "scientific" rationale behind it is apparently nonsense (I don't feel qualified to judge it fairly myself, but the medical advice I get from people I trust is clearly against it). I would generally advise people to not waste their time and money on this.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Mathew Gould Have you considered some thoughts that I sent you a few months back?

My tinnitus was a 10/10 for 4 years after ear syringing, then I was able to knock it down to a 6/10. A year and a half ago I received dental whiplash and a cut nerve in my jaw. I had electrical storms in my head, TTTS, ASD and hyperacusis. My whole neck, jaw and face went haywire and T was a 10/10 again at a fire alarm level.

It took well over a year, but my T is mostly gone including my previous T from syringing. I have days where my T is only 1/10. My neck still hurts a little and if I bend my neck forward, my T will increase to a 5/6/10. More self therapy is needed for that. I still have TMJ and I have 10/10 mouth and facial pain from the cut nerve.

I will always have problems with my neck, jaw, and facial nerve damage, but I plan to best tinnitus even with having some hearing loss with self treatment.

 

[TLion]

@Mathew Gould Have you considered some thoughts that I sent you a few months back?

My tinnitus was a 10/10 for 4 years after ear syringing, then I was able to knock it down to a 6/10. A year and a half ago I received dental whiplash and a cut nerve in my jaw. I had electrical storms in my head, TTTS, ASD and hyperacusis. My whole neck, jaw and face went haywire and T was a 10/10 again at a fire alarm level.

It took well over a year, but my T is mostly gone including my previous T from syringing. I have days where my T is only 1/10. My neck still hurts a little and if I bend my neck forward, my T will increase to a 5/6/10. More self therapy is needed for that. I still have TMJ and I have 10/10 mouth and facial pain from the cut nerve.

I will always have problems with my neck, jaw, and facial nerve damage, but I plan to best tinnitus even with having some hearing loss with self treatment.

How did you knock it down from the 10/10?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@TLion No magic. Lowering hypertension with relation to body and mind. Stress is still very high due to SEVERE facial pain from jaw cut nerves. Relaxing jaw. ***Partial posture improvement - very important. No head bending. Magnesium/calcium, NAC, NAD, Vitamin C and B's only to help with toxins in muscles and cells, not tinnitus. For me vitamins, supplements or herbs did not help my tinnitus, but I needed Alpha-Lipoic Acid. ***Breathing treatments twice a day - I have equipment for this. Only oxygen and immune system foods. *Cranial massage and **stretching muscles with shoulders placed back. Muscle pulling. **Sternocleidomastoid and Trapezius therapy with trigger points. The same for Scalene, Paraspinal Thoracic, Masseter, Temporalis. *Digastric treatment. *Facet joint treatment. *Deep vertical fiber treatment. I used a bio medical hospital unit similar to TENS with sound therapy on varied treatment.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

To add a little more there was plenty of don't. Using heavy noise blocking headphones was one of them as only ear plugs are advised for those with somatic neck and jaw related tinnitus. Noise blocking headphones are too heavy. I also should not had used noise blocking head phones because longer term use was lowering my auditory threshold causing a spike. I now only use ear plugs.

 

[Dr. Jay Hobbs]

Hi there, I've been out for a while. It was an appropriate time to reconnect.
As a chiropractic neurologist, I can give you some insider info. on this.

No well-intended question is offensive. We are all learning and sharing.

Subluxation= common medical term meaning partial ("sub") dislocation ("luxation")
[Vertebral] Subluxation Complex (occas. referred to as Subluxation)= Chiropractic term that typically refers to a "complex" of joint and neuromuscular conditions, specifically

• Fixation: the restriction of joint movement (termed "fixation"), separate from muscle tension
• Muscle tension
• sometimes Swelling or Heat differences (d/t altered blood flow)
• Pain (d/t toxin build-up (metabolic waste products) and/or decreased mechanoreceptor input to the cord and brain stem and resulting in the neurological release (less inhibition) of nociceptors(usually referred to as pain receptors))

So, the Subluxation Complex is a thing that is treated, typically by the chiropractic adjustment and supporting therapy and lifestyle changes.

The old phrasing of chiropractors used to be "bone on a nerve." This was very compelling and made sense, but is rarely actual. The newer term, Subluxation Complex, is much less obvious to understand, but it much more accurate. Actually, the old term wasn't too far off, in that this spinal joint dysfunction does interfere with nerve communication, but in a much more complex way than the bone on the nerve. The reality is that the Subluxation Complex is even more nuanced neurologically than the way I have described it.

Sorry to go Chiro- and Neuro-geek on you, but it is my passion.

 

[Mathew Gould]

@Mathew Gould Have you considered some thoughts that I sent you a few months back?

My tinnitus was a 10/10 for 4 years after ear syringing, then I was able to knock it down to a 6/10. A year and a half ago I received dental whiplash and a cut nerve in my jaw. I had electrical storms in my head, TTTS, ASD and hyperacusis. My whole neck, jaw and face went haywire and T was a 10/10 again at a fire alarm level.

It took well over a year, but my T is mostly gone including my previous T from syringing. I have days where my T is only 1/10. My neck still hurts a little and if I bend my neck forward, my T will increase to a 5/6/10. More self therapy is needed for that. I still have TMJ and I have 10/10 mouth and facial pain from the cut nerve.

I will always have problems with my neck, jaw, and facial nerve damage, but I plan to best tinnitus even with having some hearing loss with self treatment.

You sent me a lot of stuff, not sure what exactly you're talking about... What did you use the TENS machine for and how?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertebral_subluxation

 

[Mattv]

Chiropractic is a metaphysically based practice. Why try to science it up? If you believe it helps, then it does. I like being happy, even with the siren going off in my head, so I am.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Physical tinnitus has many causes where there's many cross roads and just one cause can have or take multiple directional routes. Dr. Hobbs has many impressive thoughts on various treatments and as it seems his philosophy on that depends on each individual. Physical tinnitus is complex and very complex with mouth and facial that can intertwine with other areas of the body. Dr. Hobbs mention of the DIR bite splint is interesting, but I guess it's not available within the USA.

I can only speak for myself in saying that adjustments such as the Atlas is too risky for me. I have certain conditions where Atlas treatment is not advisable. Plus I need to consider my age.

 

[AmericanJosh]

Hi there, I've been out for a while. It was an appropriate time to reconnect.
As a chiropractic neurologist, I can give you some insider info. on this.

No well-intended question is offensive. We are all learning and sharing.

Subluxation= common medical term meaning partial ("sub") dislocation ("luxation")
[Vertebral] Subluxation Complex (occas. referred to as Subluxation)= Chiropractic term that typically refers to a "complex" of joint and neuromuscular conditions, specifically

• Fixation: the restriction of joint movement (termed "fixation"), separate from muscle tension
• Muscle tension
• sometimes Swelling or Heat differences (d/t altered blood flow)
• Pain (d/t toxin build-up (metabolic waste products) and/or decreased mechanoreceptor input to the cord and brain stem and resulting in the neurological release (less inhibition) of nociceptors(usually referred to as pain receptors))

So, the Subluxation Complex is a thing that is treated, typically by the chiropractic adjustment and supporting therapy and lifestyle changes.

The old phrasing of chiropractors used to be "bone on a nerve." This was very compelling and made sense, but is rarely actual. The newer term, Subluxation Complex, is much less obvious to understand, but it much more accurate. Actually, the old term wasn't too far off, in that this spinal joint dysfunction does interfere with nerve communication, but in a much more complex way than the bone on the nerve. The reality is that the Subluxation Complex is even more nuanced neurologically than the way I have described it.

Sorry to go Chiro- and Neuro-geek on you, but it is my passion.

No disrespect meant, but...
Neurologists are MDs with medical and surgical training of the nervous system.

Chiropractic is 19th century superstition founded on Palmer's mysticism.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/chiropractic/

https://www.google.com/amp/www.lati...c-quackery-20170630-story.html?outputType=amp

 

[JohnAdams]

No disrespect meant, but...
Neurologists are MDs with medical and surgical training of the nervous system.

Chiropractic is 19th century superstition founded on Palmer's mysticism.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/chiropractic/

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-chiropractic-quackery-20170630-story.html?outputType=amp

a chiropractor is what sent me on the path to getting tinnitus in the first place.

 

[Mattv]

So many people trying to get inside our wallets. You know you need to be cautious when someone has to defend the fundamental validity of something.

We all want to believe in a quick and easy fix for everything. Excercise is the closest thing for me.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Mattv Agree. Exercising, posture improvement and simple stretching exercises.

 

[Dr. Jay Hobbs]

I'd be happy to have a discussion if you have a specific concern or question that you want to address to me, but apart from that, I will let you say what you wish.