Hearing Aids with Notch Therapy — Post Your Experience!

[BeMarie]

I got my first hearing aid three weeks ago, Signia Charge and Go AX. Two days ago they programed in the notch therapy. I'm not sure if it's helping and I'm wondering if it can make my tinnitus worse. Last night my tinnitus was particularly loud. Could be a coincidence, I don't know.

Please tell me about your experiences, good, bad, or indifferent, about hearing aids with notch therapy.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

I'm curious about this.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To BeMarie and Wrfortiscue:

I have had the Widex Zen hearing aids with the plain amplification and white noise masker since 07/2015, and I am very ambivalent about their usefulness for this condition.

When I got them there was the theory that the amplification would "cover" that portion of the hearing loss that the brain filled in with the tinnitus sound, and after perhaps a year of wearing them 24/7, the brain would "forget" the tinnitus sound and it would not be evident after the hearing aids were removed. This sadly has not been the case with me after over 6 years of constant usage.

In fact, the primary difficulty with amplification is that in order to eliminate the tinnitus sound I have to turn them up to maximum volume, so that normal sounds are so distorted that they are nearly identical to the pre-existing tinnitus.

We have radiator heat in our bungalow, and the sensitive receptiveness of the hearing aids even in our quiet living room makes the steam circulation sound like the most irritating kind of tinnitus hissing. I am very concerned that this amplification in a noisy environment could cause further hearing damage.

Amazingly, when I rode on our Elevated to Downtown, I could hear three levels of sound that were fully nonexistent when I took the hearing aids off (and I had to do so because of the punishing noise level of this environment). This made me appreciative of an entire universe of sound that is available to other animals; a cat, for example, can hear a mouse putting it's foot down on a single blade of grass from 50 feet away.

My wife's sister's husband (like several others I have heard from) said that hearing aids actually worsened his tinnitus; instead of covering it they only made it louder (and sometimes I also find this to be the case instead of that "covering" described above).

That Dr. DeKirk who was recently podcast interviewed on this Forum said that only 20% of tinnitus sufferers seem to significantly benefit from hearing aids.

The difficulty with the white noise generator portion is that (especially with a spike) all you are often doing is placing the equivalent of an artificial tinnitus sound on top of the natural tinnitus sensation, thereby doubling the volume.

Trying to find a tried-and-true Plan for this condition is like trying to catch a greased eel with your bare hands.

All you can do is try hearing aids for yourself, and after a however much time determine if the outcome is worth pursuing. They cost $3,150.00 when I first purchased them, and I'll bet I would have to be sitting down to hear about their current price (although I was given the option of trying them out for 2 weeks, and if I returned them within this time my charge was only $250.00).

 

[BeMarie]

DaveFromChicago - While I appreciate your detailed reply, the white noise generators are not at all the same as notch therapy, which is the only thing I'm asking about here. It is a program added in your hearing aids (and can't be done on all brands) and is not a sound added, but a sound taken away, at the frequency of your personal tinnitus tone.

A description from the internet:

The concept behind Notch Therapy is not to "drown out" tinnitus, but to teach the brain how to ignore it completely. The frequency of your tinnitus is targeted, and amplification of the sound is "turned down" and relegated to background noise, making it easier for your brain to ignore. This way, you don't waste energy actively trying to shut out the sound and can focus your energy and concentration on other things. Unlike ocean wave and static noise sound therapies, this method is done inaudibly, so you might not even realize that you're going through tinnitus sound therapy.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

To BeMarie and Wrfortiscue:

I have had the Widex Zen hearing aids with the plain amplification and white noise masker since 07/2015, and I am very ambivalent about their usefulness for this condition.

When I got them there was the theory that the amplification would "cover" that portion of the hearing loss that the brain filled in with the tinnitus sound, and after perhaps a year of wearing them 24/7, the brain would "forget" the tinnitus sound and it would not be evident after the hearing aids were removed. This sadly has not been the case with me after over 6 years of constant usage.

In fact, the primary difficulty with amplification is that in order to eliminate the tinnitus sound I have to turn them up to maximum volume, so that normal sounds are so distorted that they are nearly identical to the pre-existing tinnitus.

We have radiator heat in our bungalow, and the sensitive receptiveness of the hearing aids even in our quiet living room makes the steam circulation sound like the most irritating kind of tinnitus hissing. I am very concerned that this amplification in a noisy environment could cause further hearing damage.

Amazingly, when I rode on our Elevated to Downtown, I could hear three levels of sound that were fully nonexistent when I took the hearing aids off (and I had to do so because of the punishing noise level of this environment). This made me appreciative of an entire universe of sound that is available to other animals; a cat, for example, can hear a mouse putting it's foot down on a single blade of grass from 50 feet away.

My wife's sister's husband (like several others I have heard from) said that hearing aids actually worsened his tinnitus; instead of covering it they only made it louder (and sometimes I also find this to be the case instead of that "covering" described above).

That Dr. DeKirk who was recently podcast interviewed on this Forum said that only 20% of tinnitus sufferers seem to significantly benefit from hearing aids.

The difficulty with the white noise generator portion is that (especially with a spike) all you are often doing is placing the equivalent of an artificial tinnitus sound on top of the natural tinnitus sensation, thereby doubling the volume.

Trying to find a tried-and-true Plan for this condition is like trying to catch a greased eel with your bare hands.

All you can do is try hearing aids for yourself, and after a however much time determine if the outcome is worth pursuing. They cost $3,150.00 when I first purchased them, and I'll bet I would have to be sitting down to hear about their current price (although I was given the option of trying them out for 2 weeks, and if I returned them within this time my charge was only $250.00).

Sorry they haven't worked out for you. I've asked some people and some say the extra sound helps mask their tinnitus. Others I've heard that over months it lowered it. It seems to lower mine but at the same time the extra input is spiking my right ear so I'm wearing them off and on. The built in maskers suck lol so far it's not a miracle device like I hoped it would be.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

DaveFromChicago - While I appreciate your detailed reply, the white noise generators are not at all the same as notch therapy, which is the only thing I'm asking about here. It is a program added in your hearing aids (and can't be done on all brands) and is not a sound added, but a sound taken away, at the frequency of your personal tinnitus tone.

A description from the internet:

The concept behind Notch Therapy is not to "drown out" tinnitus, but to teach the brain how to ignore it completely. The frequency of your tinnitus is targeted, and amplification of the sound is "turned down" and relegated to background noise, making it easier for your brain to ignore. This way, you don't waste energy actively trying to shut out the sound and can focus your energy and concentration on other things. Unlike ocean wave and static noise sound therapies, this method is done inaudibly, so you might not even realize that you're going through tinnitus sound therapy.

I'm asking my audiologist about this.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To Wrfortiscue:

For the life of me I do not understand any of this.

It sounds very suspiciously like the contentless, substanceless rhetoric from Michael Leigh and/or Julian Cowan Hill.

What exactly is meant by "a sound taken away at the frequency of your personal tinnitus tone?" or "amplification of the sound is "turned down" and relegated to backround noise?"

Please understand that after nearly 8 years with an expenditure of about $12,500.00 on highly touted but ultimately useless placebo junk, the only device that I will seriously consider will be Dr. Shore's.

After such numerous, expensive failures my better nature has been corroded from the inside out into a carapace of cynicism.

However, thanks very much for deciding to look into this further.

No ENT Doctor or Audiologist that I have seen has ever mentioned this.

 

[BeMarie]

To Wrfortiscue:

For the life of me I do not understand any of this.

Scan down on this page to the "notch therapy" section to read more about it. It's not new. I know one person (a good friend of my brother's) who said it saved his life. But it doesn't help everyone.

https://www.signia-pro.com/en-us/sales-tools/tinnitus/

Here's more:

Notch Therapy: A New Approach to Tinnitus Treatment

Implementation and Long-Term Evaluation of a Hearing Aid Supported Tinnitus Treatment Using Notched Environmental Sounds

 

[DimLeb]

@DaveFromChicago, notch therapy or "a sound taken away at the frequency of your personal tinnitus tone" means that they remove the frequency of your tinnitus from what you are listening to with a "notch filter", essentially a hole in audio spectrum, so the tone of the tinnitus kind of blends with the background noise or music or masking sounds. So all other frequencies are emphasized, except the tinnitus frequency.

Thing is, not all sounds have one's tinnitus frequency and most probably give little to no real volume reduction long term, just like masking sound therapy. Also, it can be useless if the tinnitus not a pure sine wave (frequency) and is multi-tone or just way too complex in texture.

 

[AfroSnowman]

@DaveFromChicago, notch therapy or "a sound taken away at the frequency of your personal tinnitus tone" means that they remove the frequency of your tinnitus from what you are listening to with a "notch filter", essentially a hole in audio spectrum, so the tone of the tinnitus kind of blends with the background noise or music or masking sounds. So all other frequencies are emphasized, except the tinnitus frequency.

Thing is, not all sounds have one's tinnitus frequency and most probably give little to no real volume reduction long term, just like masking sound therapy. Also, it can be useless if the tinnitus not a pure sine wave (frequency) and is multi-tone or just way too complex in texture.

It would also seem that notch therapy can't really be used for high pitch tinnitus. For example mine is somewhere in the 12-13 kHz range. My hearing aids don't even produce sound in that range

 

[Wrfortiscue]

To Wrfortiscue:

For the life of me I do not understand any of this.

It sounds very suspiciously like the contentless, substanceless rhetoric from Michael Leigh and/or Julian Cowan Hill.

What exactly is meant by "a sound taken away at the frequency of your personal tinnitus tone?" or "amplification of the sound is "turned down" and relegated to backround noise?"

Please understand that after nearly 8 years with an expenditure of about $12,500.00 on highly touted but ultimately useless placebo junk, the only device that I will seriously consider will be Dr. Shore's.

After such numerous, expensive failures my better nature has been corroded from the inside out into a carapace of cynicism.

However, thanks very much for deciding to look into this further.

No ENT Doctor or Audiologist that I have seen has ever mentioned this.

Who knows anymore. I asked my audiologist about notch therapy and she didn't know. Some people I have spoken to mentioned hearing aids that may help if you have hearing loss.

I'll try whatever... I know most things don't work, just got to be positive. I've been negative all my life; where has that gotten me?

 

[DimLeb]

@Wrfortiscue, I don't believe any of this can reduce the objective volume of tinnitus, other than just masking. Same way hearing aids can mask in some way, but not objectively reduce it... If that was the case, then just any masking would eventually make the brain "forget and push the tinnitus out of consciousness". We are just talking about habituation in my opinion.

 

[DimLeb]

@AfroSnowman, yeah that's true. Only music and broadband stuff like white noise has that range in a meaningful way. Also, it's nearly impossible to pinpoint a notch filter that precisely at that range, and also find the exact frequency. Unless of course you take out a bunch of frequencies.

Pfff, as a music producer and sound engineer, I wish I would have kept knowing these stuff only for music and sound design, and never had to come into hearing loss, tinnitus etc territories lol.

 

[DebInAustralia]

I'm asking my audiologist about this.

AudioNotch.com.

 

[kingsfan]

If I remember correctly, the theory of notch therapy is to reduce the excitability of the neurons creating the tinnitus sound by activating neighboring ones.

I'm very interested in trying a hearing aid for my left ear. I'm only interested in reducing the volume of one particular tone I have (out of a total of about 6). It only takes about 40 dB at the tone's frequency to nearly completely reduce it's volume. Below 40 dB it becomes unbearably loud. It's a strange phenomenon. Even in loud environments, if that one particular frequency isn't consistently above that 40 dB threshold, the tinnitus becomes louder than any competing sounds and both makes it hard to hear and excruciating to deal with.

I'm wondering if just moderate amplification in that frequency would be enough to reduce it without contributing to any further synapse damage. The frequency is somewhere around 4500 Hz, so I'm sure hearing aids could handle it.

It will be an expensive gamble to take, but could completely transform my life. I have no hearing loss, but have read some anecdotes of others with no hearing loss benefiting in this same way.

 

[Bruce NH USA]

I got my first hearing aid three weeks ago, Signia Charge and Go AX. Two days ago they programed in the notch therapy. I'm not sure if it's helping and I'm wondering if it can make my tinnitus worse. Last night my tinnitus was particularly loud. Could be a coincidence, I don't know.

Please tell me about your experiences, good, bad, or indifferent, about hearing aids with notch therapy.

I just received the same Signia hearing aids, about ten days ago. It is VERY early in the process, so I haven't noticed a great deal of difference, just yet.

I will say that I have a bit of hearing loss, and the hearing aids help with that. I also stream relief sounds, as well as music at a very low level, which helps to take my mind off of the tinnitus, which is a huge factor.

Hopefully, with time, Notch Therapy kicks in... my audiologist says it helps about 70 percent of her patients.

 

[UKBloke]

I just received the same Signia hearing aids, about ten days ago. It is VERY early in the process, so I haven't noticed a great deal of difference, just yet.

I will say that I have a bit of hearing loss, and the hearing aids help with that. I also stream relief sounds, as well as music at a very low level, which helps to take my mind off of the tinnitus, which is a huge factor.

Hopefully, with time, Notch Therapy kicks in... my audiologist says it helps about 70 percent of her patients.

Thanks for the update. Keeping fingers crossed for you that it goes well. Did your audiologist happen to mention what kind of time span one should expect for improvement to kick in? (I know audiologists can sometimes be a bit reticent with this type of question - mine is).

 

[Bruce NH USA]

Thanks for the update. Keeping fingers crossed for you that it goes well. Did your audiologist happen to mention what kind of time span one should expect for improvement to kick in? (I know audiologists can sometimes be a bit reticent with this type of question - mine is).

Thanks for your good wishes! She said it's a long process, really, and not to expect overnight success. I see her again tomorrow for my two-week follow up appointment. At this point, they still need to be nice to me as I am still within the 30-day return period!

 

[UKBloke]

Thanks for your good wishes! She said it's a long process, really, and not to expect overnight success. I see her again tomorrow for my two-week follow up appointment. At this point, they still need to be nice to me as I am still within the 30-day return period!

Expect tea and cake

 

[xerpes]

I just received the same Signia hearing aids, about ten days ago. It is VERY early in the process, so I haven't noticed a great deal of difference, just yet.

I will say that I have a bit of hearing loss, and the hearing aids help with that. I also stream relief sounds, as well as music at a very low level, which helps to take my mind off of the tinnitus, which is a huge factor.

Hopefully, with time, Notch Therapy kicks in... my audiologist says it helps about 70 percent of her patients.

Hello. Are you still using the hearing aids? If so, are they helping, and what frequency is your tinnitus? Thank you.

 

[withintention]

Anyone have any success using the notch therapy function of the Signia hearing aids? Seems interesting.

 

[Curadh]

I recently came across Oticon hearing aids. I might give them a go. But they are so expensive.

Have we actually identified what type of tinnitus is helped by Notch Therapy?

 

[MiaVIL]

Have we actually identified what type of tinnitus is helped by Notch Therapy?

Tonal.

 

[Stanley Pickle]

I have had non-stop tinnitus since 1981, when I joined the Army. I was in Artillery, but it was a combination of tracked vehicles, firing ranges, and artillery that caused the tinnitus. I managed to live with it until the late '90s, but sitting in a cubicle at work and struggling to fall asleep at night made it increasingly difficult to cope.

In 2003, I was able to get hearing aids from the VA, and they helped mask the tinnitus during the day. However, when I took them out at night, my ears were so irritated by the amplification that the tinnitus actually felt worse without them.

What I remember most about the hearing aids was that they let me hear things I hadn't heard before. I could hear my pants swishing together and the coins jingling in my pocket. The hearing aids amplify all the sounds around you, which is why you notice things that would otherwise go unheard.

I no longer wear my hearing aids. They help while they're in, but once I take them out, my ears hurt too much to make it worth it.

 

[withintention]

There seems to be some confusion in this thread about what Notch Therapy actually is.

As I understand it, the core concept involves reducing the volume of the audio signal reaching your ear, but only for the frequencies around your tinnitus. For example, my tinnitus is around 4300 Hz. To apply Notch Therapy, I would use a filter that mutes or reduces the volume of audio in that frequency band, but leaves the frequencies above and below it unaffected.

The idea behind this is that, over time, this method reduces the excitability of the neurons that respond to the 4300 Hz frequency (since they're being "starved" of input), which can potentially lower the perceived volume of tinnitus over time.

It seems to me that in-ear headphones with an audio passthrough feature could be an effective way to provide 24/7 notching. By "audio passthrough," I mean headphones with built-in microphones that pick up sounds from your environment and transmit them to your ears, allowing you to hear what's happening around you. If you could apply notching to that passthrough audio, you could be receiving Notch Therapy continuously, not just when you're listening to music or specific audio tracks.

This seems like a feasible solution, but I haven't been able to find any devices designed for this purpose. Has anyone come across anything like this?

 

[SimonRK]

I have had non-stop tinnitus since 1981, when I joined the Army. I was in Artillery, but it was a combination of tracked vehicles, firing ranges, and artillery that caused the tinnitus. I managed to live with it until the late '90s, but sitting in a cubicle at work and struggling to fall asleep at night made it increasingly difficult to cope.

In 2003, I was able to get hearing aids from the VA, and they helped mask the tinnitus during the day. However, when I took them out at night, my ears were so irritated by the amplification that the tinnitus actually felt worse without them.

What I remember most about the hearing aids was that they let me hear things I hadn't heard before. I could hear my pants swishing together and the coins jingling in my pocket. The hearing aids amplify all the sounds around you, which is why you notice things that would otherwise go unheard.

I no longer wear my hearing aids. They help while they're in, but once I take them out, my ears hurt too much to make it worth it.

Hi Stanley,

I've read your posts, and it seems you've been dealing with tinnitus for longer than most people on this forum. Artillery is no joke!

2003 was a long time ago, and your hearing may have worsened since then. When was the last time you had an audiogram or had your hearing aids adjusted? Hearing aid technology is constantly evolving. It might be worth giving them another try, even though they didn't work out the first time.

 

[AverageJoe12]

I have had non-stop tinnitus since 1981, when I joined the Army. I was in Artillery, but it was a combination of tracked vehicles, firing ranges, and artillery that caused the tinnitus. I managed to live with it until the late '90s, but sitting in a cubicle at work and struggling to fall asleep at night made it increasingly difficult to cope.

In 2003, I was able to get hearing aids from the VA, and they helped mask the tinnitus during the day. However, when I took them out at night, my ears were so irritated by the amplification that the tinnitus actually felt worse without them.

What I remember most about the hearing aids was that they let me hear things I hadn't heard before. I could hear my pants swishing together and the coins jingling in my pocket. The hearing aids amplify all the sounds around you, which is why you notice things that would otherwise go unheard.

I no longer wear my hearing aids. They help while they're in, but once I take them out, my ears hurt too much to make it worth it.

Do you experience any hyperacusis or sound sensitivity?

 

[_Dutchy_]

Nine years ago, when I first developed tinnitus, I read about Tinnitracks. Due to the cost involved and the simplicity of the solution, I decided to try it myself using free iOS apps. This approach was very effective and allowed me to manage my tinnitus successfully for many years.

The idea behind this therapy, if I understand it correctly, is to "starve" the tinnitus frequency by listening to notched music for about an hour each day. The music masks the worsened tinnitus caused by the notched frequencies. Then—and this is my assumption—after listening, the brain registers some sound in the range of the hearing loss and thinks, "It isn't so bad after all."

How this therapy works with a hearing aid, I don't fully understand. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense, as the therapy should be done for a limited duration each day, combined with music to mask the tinnitus. A standard hearing aid for tinnitus does the exact opposite, as it amplifies the frequencies lost due to hearing loss in order to compensate.

I am now considering getting a hearing aid for my tinnitus and hope to train my brain by slowly, over the course of possibly years, reducing the compensation for hearing loss until my brain considers the imbalance between my left and right ears "normal." However, I realize that I may have to accept the possibility that this may never happen, and I could end up relying on the hearing aid for the rest of my life.

 

[withintention]

After doing some investigation, it looks like there may be one hearing aid that does Notch Therapy on audio passthrough:

https://www.signia.net/en-us/tinnitus/therapy/

Has anyone tried this?