Hearing Aids

[Philip83]

@Philip83, what does your tinnitus sound like? Is it high frequency hissing or how would you describe it? I'm curious as to how the hearing aids helped. Thanks for the help.

My statement from a few weeks back still holds:

Tinnitus:
During the first 3-4 days my tinnitus increased somewhat. I have the super high-pitched cicada -style in both ears/head and also a ≈4000 Hz tone in my left ear and a ≈1000 Hz tone in my right ear. Both of the "pure"-tones got louder while the cicada sound wasn't affected much. However, it is almost as if the hearing aids has kicked habituation into overdrive. My emotional response, even though the tinnitus went up, went way down and has stayed that way until now. After about 3-4 days the tones also subsided more or less to the levels they were before.

So not too much actual volume change to my tinnitus, but my annoyance level and habituation is a lot better. The pure tones are so far back in my brain's priority for attention now that I rarely hear them unless I really try. They used to be right in my face every minute of every day. The high-pitched cicada sounds are there as always, but also bother me less.

 

[Ben Johnson]

@Michael Leigh, I'm sure you have written extensively regarding hearing aids/WNGs. Could you link me to a post or two regarding how often, how long, etc. to wear them?

I just got a set of Widex Zen and they seem to be helping just on hearing aid mode with no white noise.

I'm inclined to wear them at all times but don't want to overdo it in the early days or create more future problems. I currently can hear the tinnitus if I listen for it but it's not as in your face.

Today is second full day of having them.

My audiologist said to wear them all day and take out before bed but I don't know that that is the best advice. Thank you sir.

 

[DimLeb]

I'm just wondering here having no experience with hearing aids at all. Wearing them is like wearing an earplug and all of sound is coming through a speaker (a.k.a. headphones)? Do they allow any natural sound in? I mean I can imagine how they amplify those frequencies of hearing loss, but what happens with other frequencies where your hearing is okay? Do they compromise them making them too digital?

You can't really tell what the experience is from what hearing aids companies are advertising, so yeah... If anyone can answer any of these, I'd be glad!

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh, I'm sure you have written extensively regarding hearing aids/WNGs. Could you link me to a post or two regarding how often, how long, etc. to wear them?

Hi Ben,

I have covered white noise generators that incorporate hearing aids a few times in this forum but haven't saved the links to those posts. Please search my post history to find them. You might find the posts in the thread below helpful.

The advice your audiologist has given you seems to be good and I prefer not to interfere with this unless a person is having problems, that result in increased hyperacusis and tinnitus, when wearing white noise generators with or without hearing aids. The reason being it's best to stick with one teacher otherwise you will be all over the place.

However, I usually recommend a person start the process of introducing hearing aids first with white noise turned off. Once a person is comfortable with the hearing aids introduce the white noise. This process is explained in the links below.

Today is second full day of having them.
My audiologist said to wear them all day and take out before bed but I don't know that that is the best advice. Thank you sir.

I agree with your audiologist that you should take out the hearing aids before going to bed. Use a sound machine placed by the beside for low level sound enrichment.

You are in the early stages using hearing aids. Take your time to get used to them then slowly introduce the white noise generators. More is explained in the link below.

Take care and all the best,
Michael

Hyperacusis and Hearing Aids | Tinnitus Talk Support Forum
Hearing Aids | Tinnitus Talk Support Forum

 

[Ben Johnson]

Hi Ben,

I have covered white noise generators that incorporate hearing aids a few times in this forum but haven't saved the links to those posts. Please search my post history to find them. You might find the posts in the thread below helpful.

The advice your audiologist has given you seems to be good and I prefer not to interfere with this unless a person is having problems, that result in increased hyperacusis and tinnitus, when wearing white noise generators with or without hearing aids. The reason being it's best to stick with one teacher otherwise you will be all over the place.

However, I usually recommend a person start the process of introducing hearing aids first with white noise turned off. Once a person is comfortable with the hearing aids introduce the white noise. This process is explained in the links below.

I agree with your audiologist that you should take out the hearing aids before going to bed. Use a sound machine placed by the beside for low level sound enrichment.

You are in the early stages using hearing aids. Take your time to get used to them then slowly introduce the white noise generators. More is explained in the link below.

Take care and all the best,
Michael

Thank you very much for your response. You're invaluable to this board.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Thank you very much for your response. You're invaluable to this board.

Thanks for your kind words Ben. Just give it time and be patient, I think you'll be fine.

Michael.

 

[Gb3]

I'm just wondering here having no experience with hearing aids at all. Wearing them is like wearing an earplug and all of sound is coming through a speaker (a.k.a. headphones)? Do they allow any natural sound in? I mean I can imagine how they amplify those frequencies of hearing loss, but what happens with other frequencies where your hearing is okay? Do they compromise them making them too digital?

You can't really tell what the experience is from what hearing aids companies are advertising, so yeah... If anyone can answer any of these, I'd be glad!

It depends on your hearing loss. I have high frequency hearing loss so I use a RIC hearing aid which has holes in the part that goes in your ear so I can hear low frequency sounds. Some hearing aids do block the ear and amplify all sounds.

 

[bobvann]

I may be trialing Phonaks. I have an appt on April 1st.

 

[Cbush]

Hi all. I recently bought Costco's Phonak Paradise hearing aids. They are not audiologists at Costco, so recommendations as to how best utilize these hearing aids to help my trauma-induced tinnitus that began in November 2021 would be appreciated

 

[Daniel Lion]

It depends on your hearing loss. I have high frequency hearing loss so I use a RIC hearing aid which has holes in the part that goes in your ear so I can hear low frequency sounds. Some hearing aids do block the ear and amplify all sounds.

View attachment 49395

Hi Gb3,

What's your feeling about your hearing aids? Hearing better? Tinnitus lower?

Just curious as to your overall experience. I also have SSHL.

Thanks,
D

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

I may be trialing Phonaks. I have an appt on April 1st.

The P90's are excellent aids. If you need a TV adapter (they are like Hen's teeth) ask me for a link to where you can get one.

Also, if anyone has Oticon hearing aids, it is quite easy to download Oticon Genie 2.0 2022 if you are good at software and understand PCs.

It is very user friendly. Funny how the fitter makes it seem so difficult to adjust for your 'prescription'. To be honest it is just install the software, input your audiogram and it does the rest.

BUT...

There are lots of options for fine tuning. You might find setting them yourself suits you better than the fitter.

Not sure how warranty would be affected though.

 

[Jerad]

I'm hoping the hearing aids I well get to try next month (according to my audiologist) will help with the left ear high-pitch tinnitus (sounds quite similar to the "electrical noise" heard when charging an electric car)...

@star-affinity, did the hearing aids help your electrical tinnitus?

 

[DebInAustralia]

I have just unpacked the hearing aid (my tinnitus is severe unilateral), it's an in-ear one, so looks really good and discreet.

I tried it without the masking noise first and it is hard to say what it does to the tinnitus... It's a funny unusual feeling being able to hear things so amplified.

The white noise settings are good, it definitely distracts me from the hissing, so I'm already happy that it works and I can hopefully go outside for longer distances without fear.

Which brand do you have?

 

[star-affinity]

@star-affinity, did the hearing aids help your electrical tinnitus?

Unfortunately it didn't really help in my case.

I had ones that looks like the "In-The-Canal" one in the picture above. Didn't really notice any hearing improvement in my left ear either, despite it being tuned to my audiogram by the audiologist. Maybe my hearing-loss is too small. When using them I also had this slight robotic kind of warped sound characteristics to things like footsteps. So I didn't think it was worth it – they just gave me new weird hearing related things to relate to.

Maybe I would have gotten used to these things in the long run, or it would be worth it if having a higher amount of hearing-loss.

I so just feel we need to be able to diagnose the cause for the different tinnitus variants people experience.

In my case I do feel it's definitely related to the cochlea since I could here the onset – sudden warped chirp that faded after a couple of seconds and then immediately got replaced by the electrical hiss I've heard since then.

By the way, I've found a video that is the closest to far to what my tinnitus sounds like both in pitch and characteristics – so wish I could turn it off like he does in the video when disabling the charging of his electrical car.



It is not super strong in volume for me (maybe a 3 out of 10), but still debilitating large parts of the day because of its piecing characteristics.

Help us biopharma/biotech/neurology etc. – you're our only hope!

 

[bobvann]

Just got back from the appointment where I was going to potentially trial Phonak.

Audiologist stated that there was no difference in using my bone conducting headphones or their hearing aids since I do not have significant hearing loss.

She said she would have recommended Widex over Phonak!

There you have it!

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

Just got back from the appointment where I was going to potentially trial Phonak.

Audiologist stated that there was no difference in using my bone conducting headphones or their hearing aids since I do not have significant hearing loss.

She said she would have recommended Widex over Phonak!

There you have it!

Phonak P90's and Oticon are the best on the market at the moment. Be careful with audiologists as they might have arrangements or better markups on certain brands.

Hopefully your audiologist is a good one. I have met 3 in the last 2 years. Two were excellent and the other one was basically a salesperson.

 

[bobvann]

Phonak P90's and Oticon are the best on the market at the moment. Be careful with audiologists as they might have arrangements or better markups on certain brands.

Hopefully your audiologist is a good one. I have met 3 in the last 2 years. Two were excellent and the other one was basically a salesperson.

I think you misread! They said I did not need or they WOULD NOT sell me any hearing aids stating there was no difference in using hearing aids or using my bone conducting headphones, unless one has hearing loss.

Attached is a file from another Audiologist I had started TRT which states to use bone conducting headphones.

She just said if I was to be recommended devices she would recommend Widex over Phonak. I walked out without needing to trial any device.

I have trialed Widex and Oticons in the past. Neither have helped.

The Audiologist whose report I posted trained under Jastreboff directly.
The one I met with yesterday is doing her PHD in research.

The point of posting this along with my exchange with a local health authority which I posted in the TRT thread is to share some truths with everyone.

 

[DimLeb]

trained under Jastreboff

Wow, such a great qualification.

 

[bobvann]

Wow, such a great qualification.

It proves that TRT does not help everyone.

If you look at it, the 2 leading "experts" are in disagreement.

Jastreboff's TRT is about WNG & counseling.

Dr. Hubbard, the leading "CBT" therapist, states on his YouTube video that sound therapy can hinder habituation.

 

[DimLeb]

It proves that TRT does not help everyone.

If you look at it, the 2 leading "experts" are in disagreement.

Jastreboff's TRT is about WNG & counseling.

Dr. Hubbard, the leading "CBT" therapist, states on his YouTube video that sound therapy can hinder habituation.

My comment was 100% ironic lol. In my mind, I don't even recognise these acronym stuff as treatments. It's nothing you can't do on your own, and it's something you are forced to do on your own as time passes and there is no other way than just habituate at some point.

Sound therapy/masking/whatever or not, there will be times that you will be left with listening to your tinnitus, so habituation will happen inevitably.

There is no leading expert in tinnitus. Absolutely no one. No one understands it, hence even the best neuro-otologists are 99% of no use. I wonder why people still take these 2 gentlemen seriously.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

My comment was 100% ironic lol. In my mind, I don't even recognise these acronym stuff as treatments. It's nothing you can't do on your own, and it's something you are forced to do on your own as time passes and there is no other way than just habituate at some point.

Sound therapy/masking/whatever or not, there will be times that you will be left with listening to your tinnitus, so habituation will happen inevitably.

There is no leading expert in tinnitus. Absolutely no one. No one understands it, hence even the best neuro-otologists are 99% of no use. I wonder why people still take these 2 gentlemen seriously.

How is it that with a few concise comments you can encapsulate the essence of the dilemma we face far better than I can with my orotund, bloviating pretentiousness? (There I go again; I just can't help myself).

Your comment about how "no one understands it" reminds me of all of the flying machines that failed before the Wright Brothers recognized that it was the air current against a precisely shaped wing that would result in the plane's lifting.

What we need and lack is such a crucial discovery about this.

Is Dr. Shore's theory about the hyperactive, misfiring fusiform cells the key that will unlock this? Time will tell.

 

[DebInAustralia]

The P90's are excellent aids. If you need a TV adapter (they are like Hen's teeth) ask me for a link to where you can get one.

Also, if anyone has Oticon hearing aids, it is quite easy to download Oticon Genie 2.0 2022 if you are good at software and understand PCs.

It is very user friendly. Funny how the fitter makes it seem so difficult to adjust for your 'prescription'. To be honest it is just install the software, input your audiogram and it does the rest.

BUT...

There are lots of options for fine tuning. You might find setting them yourself suits you better than the fitter.

Not sure how warranty would be affected though.

You seem to be the resident expert here on hearing aids.

Since a relapse last year, I am nowhere near habituation. I am in a lot of daily distress dealing with severe tinnitus, that has decided to take up residence in my entire head and ears.

I have a moderate bilateral hearing loss, that has been quite stable since discovered several years ago. I know that I have losses above the speech range.

I recently trialled some hearing aids (only up to 8 kHz). They did nothing for my tinnitus.

My question is: if I go for a hearing aid, which one would you recommend? I did try a Signia years ago that covers up to 10 kHz, but don't recall it making any difference with my tinnitus either.

I am wondering if over time, by consistent use, will my brain eventually rewire itself and tune out my noise?

Any help with this would be amazing. I really don't have much of a clue on hearing aids.

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

You seem to be the resident expert here on hearing aids.

Since a relapse last year, I am nowhere near habituation. I am in a lot of daily distress dealing with severe tinnitus, that has decided to take up residence in my entire head and ears.

I have a moderate bilateral hearing loss, that has been quite stable since discovered several years ago. I know that I have losses above the speech range.

I recently trialled some hearing aids (only up to 8 kHz). They did nothing for my tinnitus.

My question is: if I go for a hearing aid, which one would you recommend? I did try a Signia years ago that covers up to 10 kHz, but don't recall it making any difference with my tinnitus either.

I am wondering if over time, by consistent use, will my brain eventually rewire itself and tune out my noise?

Any help with this would be amazing. I really don't have much of a clue on hearing aids.

Hi Deb. To be completely honest I am far from an expert.

I did a lot of research. The Oticon More 1s are expensive but go up to 10 kHz and have a neural network that aims to saturate your brain with sound. I honestly don't know how much is marketing talk and how much makes a difference. I also have a pair of Phonak P90s and they are limited at 8 kHz and to be honest I notice no difference. I don't think my Oticons have ever worked properly from the start and they have been sent back for repair or replacement. Hopefully I get a good response.

I'm not a good comparison as my tinnitus experience is very unique as I have had surgeries for Middle Ear Myoclonus but my tinnitus was so severe I needed masking all during waking hours so bought two sets of hearing aids for streaming! My tinnitus sometimes changes hour to hour as I am still in the recovery stage from two surgeries but I do have fairly significant hearing loss sloping from 2 kHz down to -60 dB at 8 kHz.

If you listen to Prof. De Ridder, he believes that if you can sort the tinnitus first, and then use hearing aids, that would be a solution.

For me I definitely feel the hearing aids have helped me cope with the tinnitus rather than actually improve the tinnitus.

I am the same as you, I would be categorised as moderate bilateral loss. I 100% think the hearing aids have helped and I would not be without them. On waking up I find myself immediately reaching for them, but it really is just they help amplify other sounds to help my brain focus less on the tinnitus. Maybe now that I have had my surgeries my brain will start learning to focus less on the tinnitus on its own by using the hearing aids all day.

I also can program my Oticons and have tinkered a lot with the fitting software. I have tried giving myself a lot more amplification in the same zone as the tinnitus but it really has not made much of a difference.

If money is no object then I would choose the Oticons (as from my research they are the best), but as I said I think mine have had a slight defect from the start. I did go solo and bought them off eBay from a trusted seller who has been selling hearing aids for a decade. He has been very obliging as regards my return so far.

Finally, it is going to be an interesting few years regards hearing aid technology as the giants such as Apple, Google etc., join Bose in launching over the counter hearing aids that can be controlled by a simple app. This will force the existing providers to come out with better tech in order to keep customers.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Dr. Hubbard, the leading "CBT" therapist, states on his YouTube video that sound therapy can hinder habituation.

Sound therapy can hinder habituation when it is not done correctly. Some people believe attending TRT or CBT appointments with a therapist, is all that is required for tinnitus and hyperacusis to miraculously reduce in severity and habituation should automatically occur with little effort on their part. When these ideals are not realized they are quick to criticize the treatment.

Unless a person makes a conscious effort to reinforce positive thinking and doing things to incorporate positivity into their life they will not make much progress.

Habituating to tinnitus takes time, it is not a quick fix. Sound therapy properly administered with white noise generators helps to treat tinnitus and hyperacusis.

Michael

 

[DaveFromChicago]

"Positivity" or "sound therapy done correctly" have nothing to do with the very interesting finding from @bobvann (and I wish I had been this perceptive).

From bobvann's report, it appears that CBT and TRT are at total loggerheads on this issue regarding sound masking.

The proponents of TRT insist on a white noise masker being played for nearly the entire day; they state that it will relegate the tinnitus sound to the background (whatever that means) and thereby diminish it's intrusiveness.

The proponents of CBT apparently completely disagree. The best way to achieve habituation is to encounter the tinnitus sound in all it's fullness; in this way only can the totality of it's fearful presence be mastered.

I would be very curious regarding the debate on this matter (sound vs. no sound) that would ensue between Dr. Hubbard and Dr. Jastreboff.

Not that I would care that much about the arguments offered; the deflating realization is that both methods are only completely arbitrary and apparently based on no more that the clinically unsubstantiated opinions of these two.

This is where the "Be Your Own Best Doctor" principle comes into play regarding your decision about which method is (to any degree or none at all) right for you.

 

[bobvann]

Sound therapy can hinder habituation when it is not done correctly. Some people believe attending TRT or CBT appointments with a therapist, is all that is required for tinnitus and hyperacusis to miraculously reduce in severity and habituation should automatically occur with little effort on their part. When these ideals are not realized they are quick to criticize the treatment.

Unless a person makes a conscious effort to reinforce positive thinking and doing things to incorporate positivity into their life they will not make much progress.

Habituating to tinnitus takes time, it is not a quick fix. Sound therapy properly administered with white noise generators helps to treat tinnitus and hyperacusis.

Michael

You were staying out of my way & I out of yours.

I was hoping this would remain. Since you want to engage, fine.

You claim that you council people on the phone yada yada.

I have seen you write some ridiculous advice i.e., sitting near your computer will make tinnitus worse due to EMFs etc.

If I am not mistaken, someone mentioned thinking that riding their bicycle made their tinnitus worse, you told them something like the vibrations from their tires aggravated the cochlear. That is fearmongering advice as far as I am concerned.

As posted above, 2 audiologists I have consulted, including one that has a TRT certificate having trained directly under Jastreboff & one doing their PhD in research, have told me that using bone conducting headphones is no different then using hearing aids if there is no significant hearing loss.

They are professionals in their fields, not someone who simply owns a better audio system.

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

Self-Adjustment of Hearing Aid Amplification for Lower Speech Levels: Independent Ratings, Paired Comparisons, and Speech Recognition

Self-fitting hearing aids are just as satisfactory as audiologist fitted ones.

Bose did a similar study and results were the same, but they could be accused of bias. Bose are already in the market. Others will follow.

As someone who uses Oticon Genie 2, I can confirm that the software does all the work and is dead simple to use.

The word 'prescription' kinda makes me laugh.

Best news for everyone here is the cheaper and better technology that you can self adjust to help you find settings that ameliorate your tinnitus the best.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I was hoping this would remain. Since you want to engage, fine.

On the contrary, I don't want to engage with you. I was simply saying sound therapy properly administered helps to treat tinnitus and hyperacusis.

I have no wish to get into a slanging match with you.

Goodbye.

Michael

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To bobvann:

Ignore Michael Leigh.

Evaluating all of the defects in his commentaries is equivalent to listing all of the reasons why "The Beverly Hillbillies" is not a fully realized Work of Art.

Did he really say that sitting next to your computer will make your tinnitus worse? I can only attempt to fathom the level of desperation in those who still take him seriously.

He reminds me of the kind of guy sitting next to you in a bar who will in all seriousness tell you that the banana was brought to Earth by Aliens from another planet.

There has been, interestingly, a third option proposed regarding sound masking; you were supposed to have the white noise level at a volume that would completely cover the tinnitus (as I can with my Widex hearing aids). Theoretically, after perhaps a year the brain would forget the tinnitus sound because it was rendered nonexistent by the covering white noise.

I tried this, and after one year of full coverage I removed the hearing aids. Sure enough, that ever-so-tenacious bastard came back after a few minutes and demolished another theory about eliminating this.

 

[DebInAustralia]

Thanks Padraigh, can I ask what you hear and where you are perceiving it to coming from i.e., head or ears or both or other?