HIFU (High-Intensity Focused Ultrasound) Surgery
- Thread starter daedalus
- Start date
MemberPlease give him some time to respond as he is very busy; travelling; demanding job etc.
I read about your price issue feeling ripped of.
I would be to; but we both now buying such service is different than buying a jacket.
It is none of my business but we can be glad that doctor J from SoniModul is pioneering with HIFU, im googling now for alternatives and there ain't many!
In case there are many WHYS than have a look at the complexity;
http://www.fondation-fondamental.org/upload/pdf/strasbourg_2011_for_fondamental_2.pdf
I partly understand it which means = I don't understand it at all
Important this PDF is from 2011; proving what an ongoing development / learning experience this is.
To make a clear metaphor;
THIS IS NOT JUST SIMPLY OPERATING A COFFEE MACHINE
Thank you
I don't understand what all the hype is about Dr.Jeanmonod's tinnitus thingie.
I mean has he cured or helped any tinnitus patients with this hifu procedure yet?
Maybe @attheedgeofscience can shed some light on this question when he meets with the doctor next week.
I mean has he cured or helped any tinnitus patients with this hifu procedure yet?
Maybe @attheedgeofscience can shed some light on this question when he meets with the doctor next week.
SteveToHeal
Member
Just coming in on the tale end here but I agree, what is all the hype about? Does he charge this amount for a checkup (sure a EEG with a very expensive machine but still just a check up)? Or does that cost include the actual procedure of ablating the thalumus or whatever it is? Or is that additional costing? Plus the 1000CHF drop from one person to the next.... What is that all about?I don't understand what all the hype is about Dr.Jeanmonod's tinnitus thingie.
I mean has he cured or helped any tinnitus patients with this hifu procedure yet?
Maybe @attheedgeofscience can shed some light on this question when he meets with the doctor next week.
Has anyone on here had the treatment? Any success?
A bit lost here why someone would be willing to pay that amount without stepping out cured. Unless ATEOS you have full belief that this procedure WILL work and are prepared to keep funding it. If so, then you must have alot of confidence in this. I would also sell all i have if someone could take this t away.
Sorry guys - just went through other posts ...
Got it!
7) Cost of scan/consult = 3200 Swiss Francs - no refunds for non-candidates
8) Cost of surgery = approx. 30,000 Swiss Francs
9) Surgery time = 5-6 hours with 24hr stay in hospital for observation.
Heavy duty!
Consultation and qEEG 2200 chf. I have an appointment on 15/02/2015. There is a very long waiting list. About the tinnitus succes with HIFU surgery i have found a france forum who talk about 18 cases treated by Jeanmonod: http://www.info-acouphenes.com/foru...s-acouphenes?commentId=4280269:Comment:149340
@attheedgeofscience and @Viking , could I see your eeg graphs when you get it? u can just edit out your names, im not interested in that.
2200 CHF just for the intake is quite a lot. Here in Belgium an EEG costs 80 € (no healthcare refund) and MRI or maybe fMRI cost between 50 and 150 € (with public healthcare). Add some more for one or more doctor's consults and that should be a reasonable price.
Is it about healthcare, or about profits?
Is it about healthcare, or about profits?
EEG is not the qEEG (quantitative elettroencephalography). The first show only brain waves, the second show where (with brain colored images) a possible abnormal signal (hiperactivity ) could generate a TCD (talamocortical disrithmya). EEG duration 15 minutes. qEEG 1 hour and 30 minutes. If you are not candidate for the treatment your money Will refund
- Aug 14, 2013
- 2,455
- Tinnitus Since
- Resolved since 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (medication, head injury)
Indeed that would be the subsidized cost - or the net consumer cost. Gross cost of an MRI (with contrast) is about €500 - €1000 depending on the weight of the person (which determines the amount of contrast needed) as well as the number of body segments to be examined (eg. a full spinal cord examination incl. head scan is 3 segments).
The actual cost of an MRI therefore corresponds reasonably well with a qEEG examination - but people are often not aware of the real costs of medical examinations because of public health care subsidy.
I was also talking about Loreta-qEEG. The measuring itself does not take that long. Maybe with the processing afterwards by a technician, yes. But that is also included in the price.
I did read just now that there's also a CT scan, but with public healthcare, this is also not that expensive.
Yes, but that is why we have public healthcare, to keep the cost within range...
It costs the same for Swiss citizens?
Then I would have to ask my healthcare provider if they refund any of those test abroad.
- Aug 14, 2013
- 2,455
- Tinnitus Since
- Resolved since 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (medication, head injury)
Okay... I will be generous and explain this so that (some) people will understand.
Prof. Jeanmonod is a medical provider. He provides a medical service. For that service, he charges the recipient of the service a certain amount of money. He will issue you with an invoice. Anyone - and everyone - can take that invoice back to their country of origin and ask their medical healthcare provider to reimburse them. For some people, their healthcare provider will be public healthcare; for others, it will be private healthcare. Whether that cost will be reimbursed would depend on the rules of the healthcare system the person is subjected to. But one thing is certain: Prof. Jeanmonod's own expenses for performing the examination will be 100% identical regardless of whether the patient ends up with a reimbursement or not. It is not his responsibility to figure out on behalf of the patient whether they are entitled to a reimbursement or not. He provides a medical service. No more, no less.
In most cases, people would not be entitled to a reimbursement because a tinnitus examination using qEEG is not considered a "need-to-have", but a "nice-to-have" examination. But that is not the professor's fault. After all, he did not design the various public- and private- healthcare systems around the world.
If people think Prof. Jeanmonod should charge less because they come from a country where they are used to a lesser cost burden because of subsidized healthcare, that would be equivalent to a person going out to a car dealership and asking for a 10% discount because the buyer earns less than his neighbour. A rather useless argument since, from the point-of-view of the car salesman, his costs - ie. the car - is exactly the same regardless of whether it is the buyer or his neighbour who ends up buying the car.
And for your info, there is no such thing as "keeping the costs down" via public healthcare; what you don't pay directly, you end up paying indirectly (via your income taxes). Also known as "left pocket/right pocket" finance.
And since we are onto the topic of finance - a subject I am rather well versed in - I think I should seriously consider charging for all the unique info I provide on this site.
Ok, I understand that he has to charge his expenses, and he is not responsable of healthcare insurance.
About public healthcare, it is not just left pocket/right pocket. It is a social security system in which everybody participates and so the cost for the less fortunate (healthwise) is compensated by the others.
Actually, I just ment it would be nice to see this incorporated into the public healthcare system, but that will be far from the present.
With all due respect @Viking , what are you talking about?
I did the qEEG with Dr.Jeanmonod and it takes exactly 7 minutes.
Prep time to stick the electrodes on your head takes about half an hour.
Also I am not aware that he refunds any money if you're not a candidate.
@attheedgeofscience -why do you keep ignoring me? did you sign a non-disclosure pact with Dr.Jeamonod?
SteveToHeal
Member
SteveToHeal
Member
Hi Viking. I'm not French and the google translate does not work too well on this discussion thread. Are there ppl on there that say they have been cured of t from HIFU? Contact details so we can verify pls?
The Italian national sanitary system, when you need to carry out analyzes elsewhere, you pay in "first person" but when you return in Italy send clinical correspondence to the Ministry of Health and get 1) a partial refund. 2) if not provided (depending by your health problems), you have a tax deduction at the end of the year.
When did you qEEG with Jeanmonod, why you have not been nominated? What was his explanation?
I have an important sensorial hearing loss and a possible nerve damage after neck surgery (auditory nerve)
Thank you!
Ivan
SteveToHeal
Member
Does it say there, of the 18 tinnitus cases, treated by Jeanmonod, are any of those 18 cured? My French is virtually non-existent and google translate does not do a good job at translating discussion threads. Tx.
I try to translate for you what a user wrote: "the United States today, to my knowledge, HIFU is used to treat epilepsy, but people continue to explore, of course, destroy a small area of the brain seizure ....
(Ca may prevent the patient from falling into the street, under the wheels of a bus, in a crisis ... ear and destroy more brain)
It 'mainly in Switzerland and Prof. J .... treated 18 patients with tinnitus, if I remember correctly, with excellent results for the half, one of the patients being completely cured DHW .....
wants to launch a new series
In addition, it deals mainly with neuropathic pain and is very pleased with the results
it's better when heated at 50 or 60 degrees, 1 cubic millimeter of brain, rather than suffer such a horrible day and night. If I were the one who suffers terribly with no relief possible from scratch, neuropathic pain, I do not ask questions
Here is the website of the Foundation: Focused Ultrasound .... and I think that there is nothing the French side, I hope that this will not last!"
Hoping is not false...
SteveToHeal
Member
Response from Franziska ROSSI - Assistant to Prof. Jeanmonod:
Dear patient,
Thank you very much for your questions concerning the treatment of your tinnitus. The following points may be mentioned :
1) A neurosurgical treatment of tinnitus, based on the concept of thalamocortical dysrhythmia and using the technology of focused ultrasound, can only be considered when tinnitus has become chronic (at least 1 year), invalidating and therapy-resistant (resistance to drugs, tinnitus retraining therapy and psychotherapy)
2) There has to be a known audiological cause to the tinnitus (auditory nerve problem/damage, relevant hearing trauma, etc.)
3) Needed is a description of the tinnitus localization (ears, head, which side)
4) And a description of the qualities of the tinnitus perception (pure tone or noise, frequency, narrow- or broadband)
We would need from you one or more detailed ENT report(s). On the basis of these data, we would be able to decide if an outpatient diagnostic consultation of a whole day is indicated, with clinical and quantitative EEG examinations. This consultation would allow to determine if a focused ultrasound treatment is indicated.
Focused ultrasound treatments for tinnitus will only begin in one or two years, but you may send us your ENT data for advice already now.
With our kindest regards
Franziska ROSSI - Assistant to Prof. Jeanmonod
SoniModul AG | Leopoldstrasse 1 | CH-4500 Solothurn
Tel : +41 32 621 7931 | Fax : +41 32 621 7933
http://www.sonimodul.ch
So it's still quite a way away... but I've read here the waiting list is long. I'm hoping for habituation before then so I guess this is more of a "sell your house" last resort. But good to know that it has potential.
Dear patient,
Thank you very much for your questions concerning the treatment of your tinnitus. The following points may be mentioned :
1) A neurosurgical treatment of tinnitus, based on the concept of thalamocortical dysrhythmia and using the technology of focused ultrasound, can only be considered when tinnitus has become chronic (at least 1 year), invalidating and therapy-resistant (resistance to drugs, tinnitus retraining therapy and psychotherapy)
2) There has to be a known audiological cause to the tinnitus (auditory nerve problem/damage, relevant hearing trauma, etc.)
3) Needed is a description of the tinnitus localization (ears, head, which side)
4) And a description of the qualities of the tinnitus perception (pure tone or noise, frequency, narrow- or broadband)
We would need from you one or more detailed ENT report(s). On the basis of these data, we would be able to decide if an outpatient diagnostic consultation of a whole day is indicated, with clinical and quantitative EEG examinations. This consultation would allow to determine if a focused ultrasound treatment is indicated.
Focused ultrasound treatments for tinnitus will only begin in one or two years, but you may send us your ENT data for advice already now.
With our kindest regards
Franziska ROSSI - Assistant to Prof. Jeanmonod
SoniModul AG | Leopoldstrasse 1 | CH-4500 Solothurn
Tel : +41 32 621 7931 | Fax : +41 32 621 7933
http://www.sonimodul.ch
So it's still quite a way away... but I've read here the waiting list is long. I'm hoping for habituation before then so I guess this is more of a "sell your house" last resort. But good to know that it has potential.
SteveToHeal
Member
Thanks both Matthias and Viking. One cured (t origin unknown i take it?) and half of them with "good results". I'd take those odds if "good results" equated to able to live with (noise exposed) t post op. Now to steal a few gold bars.
Hey @Viking , how long roughly is the waiting list for appointments?
You've given me a little hope that one day I might be ok. I have severe neuropathic pain in my face, teeth and head, as well as tinnitus and tremor.
I wonder if I'll be left with much brain after frying all those problem areas!
You've given me a little hope that one day I might be ok. I have severe neuropathic pain in my face, teeth and head, as well as tinnitus and tremor.
I wonder if I'll be left with much brain after frying all those problem areas!
Hey @Viking , how long roughly is the waiting list for appointments?
You've given me a little hope that one day I might be ok. I have severe neuropathic pain in my face, teeth and head, as well as tinnitus and tremor.
I wonder if I'll be left with much brain after frying all those problem areas!
In my case, 4 mounth. If you have all this problems, i'm not a doctor but if you allow, check the NECK! (cervical spine nerves termination)
Also you can be a candidate for VNS (vagus nerve stimulation).
It is indicated for seizure, neuropathic pain, tinnitus, depression and other neurological problem.
Go on pubmed and search for VNS!
Best wishes
It is false information. Jeanmonod hasn't treated tinnitus anybody with HIFU yet - at least he would not let it be publicly known if he did. He is very secretive.
The 18 patients are probably other conditions that he treated using radiofrequency ablation - some of them might had tinnitus that might of been improved or cured as a positive side-effect.
The 18 patients are probably other conditions that he treated using radiofrequency ablation - some of them might had tinnitus that might of been improved or cured as a positive side-effect.
- Aug 14, 2013
- 2,455
- Tinnitus Since
- Resolved since 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (medication, head injury)
Account of the full day consultation with professor Jeanmonod (HIFU)
As mentioned in an earlier post, I had an appointment yesterday with the Swiss Professor of Neurosurgery, Dr. Jeanmonod. The appointment took place in Solothurn (Switzerland). I arrived the day before and stayed at a hotel nearby in order to be ready for the 09:30 appointment and full-day consultation/examination. I was greeted by the professor himself and we spoke briefly for 5-10 minutes about the day's agenda. First item on the schedule was a high resolution EEG scan. The scan is similar to the ones performed by regular neurologists, but instead of using 16-20 electrodes, this examination uses 64 (and can therefore collect more brain wave data). There is hence more preparation time involved as each of the electrodes needs to be covered in jelly-like substance in order to ensure electrical conductivity (x 64!!!). The scan itself took 3x5 minutes (ie. 5 minutes EEG-data collection with eyes closed, followed by a 5 minute scan with eyes open, and then a final 5 minute-scan with eyes closed again).
On a slight side note, I should mention that, the staff – incl. Professor Jeanmonod - is very nice to be around. This is similar to the population of the German speaking part of Switzerland. I have myself lived in the French speaking part of Switzerland for eight years, but despite that, I actually did not do much travelling within the Swiss borders during that time – and hence I am somewhat unfamiliar with much of Switzerland and its culture. Only minor problem (for me) with the German speaking part of Switzerland is the Swiss-German dialect which – even for Germans – can be tough to comprehend at all times.
The EEG-scan including preparation time took approximately 45 minutes to complete; the data was clean and without too much interfering electrical muscle activity from facial and/or eye-movements (patients must remain still during the exam – and no coffee in the morning). Then I had my first chance to really speak with the professor one-on-one. We spoke for 1½ hours. It was mainly me doing the talking, and I gave him a solid overview of what I had been up to in terms of treatments over the past year or so. Those who have followed some of my posts will know that I am no novice when it comes to experimental medicine and tinnitus: LLLT, 2 stem cell treatments, skeletal/muscular Procaine-injections, steroids, potassium modulators – not to mention an endless number of doctors' appointments with ENTs, neurologists, dentists, chiroprators, GPs – as well as attempts to participate in clinical trials.
Now, Prof. Jeanmonod is of course a neurosurgeon. But it became clear to me during the morning consultation that he also has some amount of schooling and/or interest in psychology. Therapeutic and diagnostic psychology. During the consultation, I therefore knew I was being "observed" from more than just the neurological point-of-view. I therefore also knew that my unrestrained criticism of TRT and limitless insults of the ENT-community might well backfire with a withheld verdict from professor along the lines: "Mr. Hansen, I think there is a lot of anger inside of you".
A good 2½ hours had passed since my arrival at the clinic, and we broke-up for lunch and the professor suggested we reconvene 2 hours later (by which time the data assessment of my EEG scan would be complete). Some members on this board have questioned the price of the consultation (ie. EUR 2200,-). It is certainly a lot of money, but I should mention that I was also the only patient at the clinic that day – and essentially the professor and his staff had cleared their whole day schedule just for me (similar to what any other patient seeking his help would get).
We got going again at 2:30 in the afternoon. By this time the EEG data had been compiled and I was ready to receive my "verdict". This time it was mainly the professor doing the talking. Now, I am normally quite comfortable relaying medical information in general (even as a non-doctor), but the brain is an exception. And the follow-up consultation most definitely did involve the (human) brain. So forgive me if not everything is 100% correct. The kind of tinnitus that the professor can diagnose (and treat) is a case of tinnitus where a loss of auditory input to the brain has been established resulting in abnormal brain wave activity known as brain wave dysrhythmia (see my EEG results further down). The way this dysfunction arises is something like following: auditory input (from the ear) is passed on to the thalamus. Between the thalamus and the auditory cortex, there is a mapping/exchange of information which can become dysfunctional when a loss of auditory input occurs. The culprit behind this is something known as the "edge-effect".
In my case, abnormal brain wave activity was observed, but not in a statistically significant manner. I am therefore not a candidate for surgery. Professor Jeanmonod then offered me three additional explanations as to why tinnitus might be present in a person – he referred to three topics informally as:
At this point we went next door to a very simple examination room for a short series of neurological tests – the kind any neurologist will perform on you (but there were no gait tests involved here). Additionally, I was asked to complete a very symbolic psychological test: it consisted of a white rectangular pad roughly 15 x 25 cm; on it was a yellow circle at the bottom right hand corner (about 7 cm in diameter). I was then asked to place circular magnets on the magnetic pad (in relation to the yellow-filled circle). The pad represented myself and my environment; the yellow circle represented me (as a person), and the coloured magnets represented areas of focus in my life eg. friends, work, tinnitus, and social activities. Apparently, this simple test can reveal a lot about a person. I decided to complete the test in a way that would (hopefully) confuse any psychologist. [What the professor did not know about me is that I have completed a fair bit of psychological assessment myself: I have done no fewer than 200 properly rated IQ tests, roughly 15 analytical/partial IQ tests, 7 different personality profile tests, and 20 hours of psychological assessment.]
Based on the above as well as my own account of my tinnitus history, the professor concluded my tinnitus is probably best explained by an "emotional-origin". From then on, we had a bit of a back-and-forth exchange of ideas. I will list them below – as well as some of my own ideas/theories.
This post also marks the end of my year-long journey into the world of experimental medicine. At this point in time, I have travelled more than 40,000 kilometers for my various treatments, spent more than 60,000 dollars in non-refundable medical expenses, and shared a good deal of information on the various on-going clinical trials as well as financial data on pharmaceutical companies. I have shared and documented the very best and most unique medical treatments available – the kind of treatments that your average ENT "around the corner" or "down the block" will definitely not know about.
It is difficult to gauge if my journey has ended on a high- or a low-note. From my meeting with the professor, I am left with the reinforced opinion that curing tinnitus can indeed be quite a challenge. The brain is a seriously complicated piece of biological machinery; understanding it is more than difficult enough; curing pathologies within the brain even more so. We are still some way off from really truly understanding what tinnitus is. But I am still relatively (and realistically?) hopeful that the sponsors of the current clinical trials are onto "something". I should also mention that I have myself experienced what I believe are a new series of improvements with my own tinnitus; I am having episodes where my tinnitus almost disappears for an hour or two – and this has never happened before. I want to see where this all leads. I will be doing a bit more research on potassium modulators and dosage levels, and "see what happens". I will do an update at some point in the "Flupirtine thread".
As the day with the professor approached its end, I started gathering my various medical papers that – by this time – were scattered all across the table. And as I did so, Professor Jeanmonod uttered the "magic words" that I will not soon forget: "Mr. Hansen… your knowledge of medicine is impressive indeed".
As mentioned in an earlier post, I had an appointment yesterday with the Swiss Professor of Neurosurgery, Dr. Jeanmonod. The appointment took place in Solothurn (Switzerland). I arrived the day before and stayed at a hotel nearby in order to be ready for the 09:30 appointment and full-day consultation/examination. I was greeted by the professor himself and we spoke briefly for 5-10 minutes about the day's agenda. First item on the schedule was a high resolution EEG scan. The scan is similar to the ones performed by regular neurologists, but instead of using 16-20 electrodes, this examination uses 64 (and can therefore collect more brain wave data). There is hence more preparation time involved as each of the electrodes needs to be covered in jelly-like substance in order to ensure electrical conductivity (x 64!!!). The scan itself took 3x5 minutes (ie. 5 minutes EEG-data collection with eyes closed, followed by a 5 minute scan with eyes open, and then a final 5 minute-scan with eyes closed again).
On a slight side note, I should mention that, the staff – incl. Professor Jeanmonod - is very nice to be around. This is similar to the population of the German speaking part of Switzerland. I have myself lived in the French speaking part of Switzerland for eight years, but despite that, I actually did not do much travelling within the Swiss borders during that time – and hence I am somewhat unfamiliar with much of Switzerland and its culture. Only minor problem (for me) with the German speaking part of Switzerland is the Swiss-German dialect which – even for Germans – can be tough to comprehend at all times.
The EEG-scan including preparation time took approximately 45 minutes to complete; the data was clean and without too much interfering electrical muscle activity from facial and/or eye-movements (patients must remain still during the exam – and no coffee in the morning). Then I had my first chance to really speak with the professor one-on-one. We spoke for 1½ hours. It was mainly me doing the talking, and I gave him a solid overview of what I had been up to in terms of treatments over the past year or so. Those who have followed some of my posts will know that I am no novice when it comes to experimental medicine and tinnitus: LLLT, 2 stem cell treatments, skeletal/muscular Procaine-injections, steroids, potassium modulators – not to mention an endless number of doctors' appointments with ENTs, neurologists, dentists, chiroprators, GPs – as well as attempts to participate in clinical trials.
Now, Prof. Jeanmonod is of course a neurosurgeon. But it became clear to me during the morning consultation that he also has some amount of schooling and/or interest in psychology. Therapeutic and diagnostic psychology. During the consultation, I therefore knew I was being "observed" from more than just the neurological point-of-view. I therefore also knew that my unrestrained criticism of TRT and limitless insults of the ENT-community might well backfire with a withheld verdict from professor along the lines: "Mr. Hansen, I think there is a lot of anger inside of you".
A good 2½ hours had passed since my arrival at the clinic, and we broke-up for lunch and the professor suggested we reconvene 2 hours later (by which time the data assessment of my EEG scan would be complete). Some members on this board have questioned the price of the consultation (ie. EUR 2200,-). It is certainly a lot of money, but I should mention that I was also the only patient at the clinic that day – and essentially the professor and his staff had cleared their whole day schedule just for me (similar to what any other patient seeking his help would get).
We got going again at 2:30 in the afternoon. By this time the EEG data had been compiled and I was ready to receive my "verdict". This time it was mainly the professor doing the talking. Now, I am normally quite comfortable relaying medical information in general (even as a non-doctor), but the brain is an exception. And the follow-up consultation most definitely did involve the (human) brain. So forgive me if not everything is 100% correct. The kind of tinnitus that the professor can diagnose (and treat) is a case of tinnitus where a loss of auditory input to the brain has been established resulting in abnormal brain wave activity known as brain wave dysrhythmia (see my EEG results further down). The way this dysfunction arises is something like following: auditory input (from the ear) is passed on to the thalamus. Between the thalamus and the auditory cortex, there is a mapping/exchange of information which can become dysfunctional when a loss of auditory input occurs. The culprit behind this is something known as the "edge-effect".
In my case, abnormal brain wave activity was observed, but not in a statistically significant manner. I am therefore not a candidate for surgery. Professor Jeanmonod then offered me three additional explanations as to why tinnitus might be present in a person – he referred to three topics informally as:
- ENT-related (ie. tinnitus having an origin within the domain of an ENT – could be cochlea related, pulsatile-related and/or objective tinnitus).
- Muscular-tension related; a focus area involving the understanding of trigger points – and an area of medicine which is receiving an increased amount of focus.
- Emotional tinnitus; a type of tinnitus which the brain itself is "responsible for" and without any objectively measurable reasons (ie. audiograms without significant hearing loss and/or normal EEG scans).
At this point we went next door to a very simple examination room for a short series of neurological tests – the kind any neurologist will perform on you (but there were no gait tests involved here). Additionally, I was asked to complete a very symbolic psychological test: it consisted of a white rectangular pad roughly 15 x 25 cm; on it was a yellow circle at the bottom right hand corner (about 7 cm in diameter). I was then asked to place circular magnets on the magnetic pad (in relation to the yellow-filled circle). The pad represented myself and my environment; the yellow circle represented me (as a person), and the coloured magnets represented areas of focus in my life eg. friends, work, tinnitus, and social activities. Apparently, this simple test can reveal a lot about a person. I decided to complete the test in a way that would (hopefully) confuse any psychologist. [What the professor did not know about me is that I have completed a fair bit of psychological assessment myself: I have done no fewer than 200 properly rated IQ tests, roughly 15 analytical/partial IQ tests, 7 different personality profile tests, and 20 hours of psychological assessment.]
Based on the above as well as my own account of my tinnitus history, the professor concluded my tinnitus is probably best explained by an "emotional-origin". From then on, we had a bit of a back-and-forth exchange of ideas. I will list them below – as well as some of my own ideas/theories.
- The professor's #1 theory/model on tinnitus as being caused by a loss of auditory input to the brain assumes that the person, a) has had a loss of auditory input, and b) has had a stressful event in his or her life later on. A loss of auditory input per se, is not sufficient to create tinnitus in this case. Now the professor – with more than a decade of study – may well be right, but his model almost certainly assumes that the loss of auditory input to the brain is maintained. In my case – due to my experimental treatments – I have managed to restore a fair bit of auditory input, and brain plasticity may be setting in as a consequence. Essentially, I am wondering if – in simplistic terms – I would have tested differently on the EEG scan had I showed up at the clinic before any of my LLLT and stem cell treatments.
- I should mention that prior to developing tinnitus in April 2013, I had one month before that developed a case of so-called micro eye-floaters. Due to my young-ish age (35 at the time), I knew that the eye floaters were most likely micro-floaters and consequently inoperable (or likely so). I sense within myself that perhaps that episode may have triggered "something" within me (ie. the so-called stressful event that the professor mentions is necessary for tinnitus to occur in the brain). For sure I was annoyed by the floaters themselves (still am) – but also by the fact that I had seen my GP and a number of eye specialists for my constant eye inflammations during the two years prior to the eye floaters occurring (the inflammation being the culprit). I hold them accountable for basically not doing their job ie. not diagnosing me and treating me for the underlying cause of the constant eye inflammations I was having back then. In relation to this, I have provided insights on this board into the use of stem cells and autoimmune diseases [see thread: tinnitus in one ear].
- There was also a surprise for the day's consultation: it turns out that Prof. Jeanmonod himself has tinnitus. In a previous life, he had played in a band. He did not develop tinnitus from that alone, but from a stressful period later in life. But as he had explained to me earlier: there are two components that must be fulfilled in order to develop tinnitus according to his model: loss of auditory input to the brain and an emotional trigger. He mentioned it had been a problem for him for a couple of months post onset and then he moved on. His own tinnitus was a non-issue for him. Indeed, he seemed completely well functioning and totally unaffected by it.
- We did discuss the use of psychotherapy in the treatment of tinnitus. He himself is not a big fan of TRT, specifically, but instead prefers more tailored psychotherapy. He specifically said that while conditions such as depression and anxiety can be hard to treat, it is nothing compared to how difficult it is to treat "acceptance". To accept a situation or condition in life – be it a lost limb or tinnitus – is one of the hardest things we humans can be confronted with. We discussed the topic back and forth for some time. I sensed from the discussion that he thinks psychotherapy does have a role to play in the treatment of tinnitus – and to the extent that it matters, I would myself suggest seeking out a therapist with a minimum of a Ph.d level background and specific knowledge of treating tinnitus and acceptance. The professor made it clear to me that the topic of "acceptance" is crucial. Acceptance, he explained, is different to "learn to live with it" – and plays a fundamental role in certain parts of psychotherapy.
- We also discussed the current on-going clinical trials for various treatments of tinnitus. This was towards the end of the consultation. We instantly agreed with each other how critical the screening process of the candidates is. Unless the candidates are screened and diagnosed with a specific type of tinnitus, the clinical trial sponsors will not know what "category" the participants belong to. Which could well be why drug development has so far been unsuccessful. Compare it with a drug maker developing a new antibiotic and testing it on people who simply "have an infection". Unless it is determined if the infection is viral or bacterial – and if so, which type of bacteria – then proving efficacy of the antibiotic is difficult indeed. And that's the difficulty drug producers of tinnitus treatments are facing (because there is no device which currently can screen people objectively for tinnitus). One of the few individuals who can objectively diagnose people with subjective tinnitus is of course the professor himself. But even he can only do so for a specific type of tinnitus (as already mentioned). My own reflection on this is that the AUT-63 clinical trial – with its tight inclusion criteria on hearing loss – may well be "doing things right". Audiology cannot diagnose tinnitus directly, but by placing strict limits on hearing loss you can at least enhance the chances of getting the right candidates. And in the absence of an all-knowing device which can objectively diagnose all cases of tinnitus, that is perhaps the best thing that can be done at this moment in time.
This post also marks the end of my year-long journey into the world of experimental medicine. At this point in time, I have travelled more than 40,000 kilometers for my various treatments, spent more than 60,000 dollars in non-refundable medical expenses, and shared a good deal of information on the various on-going clinical trials as well as financial data on pharmaceutical companies. I have shared and documented the very best and most unique medical treatments available – the kind of treatments that your average ENT "around the corner" or "down the block" will definitely not know about.
It is difficult to gauge if my journey has ended on a high- or a low-note. From my meeting with the professor, I am left with the reinforced opinion that curing tinnitus can indeed be quite a challenge. The brain is a seriously complicated piece of biological machinery; understanding it is more than difficult enough; curing pathologies within the brain even more so. We are still some way off from really truly understanding what tinnitus is. But I am still relatively (and realistically?) hopeful that the sponsors of the current clinical trials are onto "something". I should also mention that I have myself experienced what I believe are a new series of improvements with my own tinnitus; I am having episodes where my tinnitus almost disappears for an hour or two – and this has never happened before. I want to see where this all leads. I will be doing a bit more research on potassium modulators and dosage levels, and "see what happens". I will do an update at some point in the "Flupirtine thread".
As the day with the professor approached its end, I started gathering my various medical papers that – by this time – were scattered all across the table. And as I did so, Professor Jeanmonod uttered the "magic words" that I will not soon forget: "Mr. Hansen… your knowledge of medicine is impressive indeed".
@attheedgeofscience
Thanks so very much for taking the time to share your experience, information and test results from your consultation and day with Dr. Jeanmonod.
I'm also glad to learn that there has been some improvement in your T condition recently!
Thanks so very much for taking the time to share your experience, information and test results from your consultation and day with Dr. Jeanmonod.
I'm also glad to learn that there has been some improvement in your T condition recently!
Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!
Similar threads
