How Can You Habituate to LOUD Tinnitus?

[Jrblovsky]

I went to ENT, three years ago to see if I needed an MRI. This was in a major hospital in NYC, where he performs state of the art surgery for a number of conditions, that he specializes in. The doctor revealed to me that he has tinnitus, and when it first hit he tried everything under the sun to treat it, such as Ginkgo Biloba and other supposed remedies, and nothing worked.

It just takes time, for the majority of us who have it, to adjust to it. Now, the takeaway for me was, if this man can perform surgery of a very serious nature, even though he has a bad case of tinnitus, then it must be possible to live with this. Yes, it took a while to rid myself of negativity, bad nights, trying to stop it from happening, etc., but I can say that it matters little to me anymore that this sound is present. I simply do not hear it most of the time, because I am not thinking of it. When I do her it, I do not get annoyed. This is not a special skill, it happens for the majority who have tinnitus, eventually. I did a lot of exercises, meditation, and psychological work to speed up my habituation, as well.

How long did it take you if you don't mind me asking? I hate this shit just as much or more now than the day it started.

 

[Ed209]

Exactly. When I read that part I also realised it seemed to fly in the face of what your oaudiologist stated to you during your visit. In terms of trying to understand or explain it in the context of "we usually see tinnitus loudness between 5-20dB SL", I really don't know... Maybe @Ed209 can chip in?

Sorry, I didn't get notified for this so I've only just seen it. This threw me as well as I've never seen this mentioned in any other study that I've read. It would have been helpful if the article had elaborated a bit more.

Most studies state that anything above 20 dB SL is really rare, and anything above 30 dB SL is the very upper level. Put it this way, I've never seen anyone mention anything above 50 dB SL and it's generally accepted that the vast majority fall somewhere between 4 dB SL and 10 dB SL. This does not always directly correlate to loudness, though. Some can have a lower sensation level but have a higher psychoacoustic measurement in sones.

As I said earlier, the variables make this a complex web to untangle.

There was a study done, which I found interesting, which compared real tinnitus candidates with people who were simulating that they had it (based on previous experience, having had temporary tinnitus after attending a gig or other loud event). The simulators had to have had tinnitus within the last few weeks so that it was fresh in their memory.

What they found was that the simulators all had a sensation level around 10 dB SL higher than those who really had it. The fakers also tended to rate lower frequencies as being more similar to their tinnitus than those who really had it. They found it consistent enough that they could predict who really had tinnitus and who didn't. I read this a while back so it took me some time to track it down again but I'll link to it below.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2017.00038/full

Here's one of the result tables comparing the fakers to the real tinnitus candidates. Obviously, a much bigger sample size would be needed to draw meaningful conclusions from this, but I found it interesting nonetheless.

 

[Ed209]

I believe that the lack of correlation between loudness scores and annoyance is what leads to statements like these:

This was taken from a pamphlet I received after suffering a setback from an MRI. I do not agree with this statement and I blame the lack of an objective testing method for these assertions being made.

Notice how they qualify that statement with the word "seem." Messages like these can feel like a slap in the face to those who have catastrophic tinnitus.

 

[UKBloke]

Sorry, I didn't get notified for this so I've only just seen it. This threw me as well as I've never seen this mentioned in any other study that I've read. It would have been helpful if the article had elaborated a bit more.

Most studies state that anything above 20 dB SL is really rare, and anything above 30 dB SL is the very upper level. Put it this way, I've never seen anyone mention anything above 50 dB SL and it's generally accepted that the vast majority fall somewhere between 4 dB SL and 10 dB SL. This does not always directly correlate to loudness, though. Some can have a lower sensation level but have a higher psychoacoustic measurement in sones.

As I said earlier, the variables make this a complex web to untangle.

There was a study done, which I found interesting, which compared real tinnitus candidates with people who were simulating that they had it (based on previous experience, having had temporary tinnitus after attending a gig or other loud event). The simulators had to have had tinnitus within the last few weeks so that it was fresh in their memory.

What they found was that the simulators all had a sensation level around 10 dB SL higher than those who really had it. The fakers also tended to rate lower frequencies as being more similar to their tinnitus than those who really had it. They found it consistent enough that they could predict who really had tinnitus and who didn't. I read this a while back so it took me some time to track it down again but I'll link to it below.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2017.00038/full

Here's one of the result tables comparing the fakers to the real tinnitus candidates. Obviously, a much bigger sample size would be needed to draw meaningful conclusions from this, but I found it interesting nonetheless.

View attachment 41971

Thanks for the article. Interesting, if the fakers perceive lower frequencies as being similar to their tinnitus this might support the octave theory when trying to conduct reliable matching.

With so many contradictions in current measuring processes I think the study that @DebInAustralia is about to embark on is going to be really interesting. Hope they can get the results out reasonably quickly. That said, even when a really decent objective method for measuring tinnitus finally becomes available, I'm still a bit cautious about whether two people with identical results will experience the same loudness. It's a bit like room temperature. 19 degrees wouldn't necessarily mean everyone feels warm. On the positive side though, I do believe that if a treatment comes along that can demonstrably show a reduction in tinnitus activity, regardless of the individual percept, the effects for us are going to be massive.

Re: that other article, Prof Moore lectures out of Cambridge, which isn't that far from me. I'm considering maybe trying to get in touch with him and have a chat.

 

[jay777]

Until they can read my mind, then I will believe they can tell me how loud my tinnitus is. Until then they will have to use my measure which is FUCKING FUCKING FUCKING LOUD TINNITUS.

 

[Ed209]

Re: that other article, Prof Moore lectures out of Cambridge, which isn't that far from me. I'm considering maybe trying to get in touch with him and have a chat.

That's a good idea. My wife is a Cambridge graduate and knows many of the professors there. I'd be interested in hearing his explanation.

Until they can read my mind, then I will believe they can tell me how loud my tinnitus is. Until then they will have to use my measure which is FUCKING FUCKING FUCKING LOUD TINNITUS.

I'd love to see that referenced in a study. Something along the lines of: fucking loud tinnitus is not as common as loud tinnitus, but occasionally we observed FUCKING FUCKING FUCKING LOUD TINNITUS.

 

[Digital Doc]

Wearing plugs at night?

Sorry, but no one here will convince me that you can wear plugs at night (assuming one is trying to sleep). That means listening to only 'hearing' one's tinnitus and nothing else.

I am talking about someone with loud tinnitus (8 - 10/10). I need at least a fan on.

Yes, ear plugs when sleeping.

 

[weab00]

I estimated my tinnitus at about 75 dB at the peak, and I habituated over about 18 to 24 mos. It was quite intrusive, and was waking me up from sleep multiple times a night.

This is what helped me:

- vigilant protection from further noise damage (ex: double protection while using vacuum)
- omega3 capsules for over a year
- earplug use at night
- avoidance of further noise events, no concerts, sporting events, parties, etc
- no use of masking devices
- no benzos
- melatonin for insomnia when it was most severe

Hope this info helps others.

Pretty much what I'm doing right now, completely isolating myself. I bought a bunch of supplements but got too lazy to keep taking all of them everyday, so having just one to focus on would be better motivation. I want to use earplugs at night, especially since I live with my family, but am concerned about sleeping through my 8:00 AM alarm. Perhaps a vibrating watch? I also wear a nightguard for TMJ and am concerned about the occlusion effect.

 

[Berry]

That's what I'm dealing with right now. It whistles very loudly in my ears, I'm afraid I won't get used to it For about two months there's no chance for me to fall asleep without sleeping pills. I'm scared and stressed. I've been taking AD for about two weeks.

 

[Ed209]

That's what I'm dealing with right now. It whistles very loudly in my ears, I'm afraid I won't get used to it For about two months there's no chance for me to fall asleep without sleeping pills. I'm scared and stressed. I've been taking AD for about two weeks.

For the vast majority, Berry, it gets a hell of a lot better. If you could somehow fast forward 3 years into the future, it's far more likely that you'll discover you have moved on with your life (and are no longer thinking about it so much) than still feeling as you are now.

This is not a guarantee, of course, but this is generally the path that most people follow.

 

[weab00]

With the new imaging techniques being developed, I wonder if we could determine a point of unhabituable tinnitus loudness or frequency. Something so bad half your brain is lit up like fireworks in the scan. Or is the brain endlessly neuroplastic? People can overcome huge traumas but often wind up an emotional shell of their former selves.

 

[Digital Doc]

Pretty much what I'm doing right now, completely isolating myself. I bought a bunch of supplements but got too lazy to keep taking all of them everyday, so having just one to focus on would be better motivation. I want to use earplugs at night, especially since I live with my family, but am concerned about sleeping through my 8:00 AM alarm. Perhaps a vibrating watch? I also wear a nightguard for TMJ and am concerned about the occlusion effect.

Truth be told I did sleep through the alarm once. I then switched to the smartphone for the alarm which is loud enough to wake me up with the earplugs. I also use the less protective 29 and 32 need earplugs which allow me to hear the alarm better. Laser Lites are a good option for this.

 

[Óscar PP]

Yes, ear plugs when sleeping.

I also use earplugs when I sleep. I can only hear my high pitched piercing tinnitus, but with Mirt on my side I have nothing to fear.

 

[creasy212]

@Jrblovsky, I have severe tinnitus and hyperacusis and I'm in my late 20s. For me, it took me around 3 years to habituate but there were positives and good vibes along the way— not much before the 1st year though. It's a rough ride.