How Dangerous Are High Frequency Noises???

[Lauren Morse]

I'm really curious about this question, as I have read that frequencies in the 2-6 khz range are more dangerous at high decibels and can harm you at a lower exposure time than can other lower pitched noises. I have mixed opinions having been 'bitten' by high bass frequencies before, but...

In my case, a half- second exposure to a 5 khz sound of 90-95 ish decibels seems to have set off T and ear fullness/pain for me, and probably some hearing loss. I was talking on a telephone when I pronounced an "s" sound too loudly.
Crazy, I know, but I am wondering if it has anything to do at all with the fact that these noises are regarded as more dangerous in general?

Any thoughts?

 

[Blake]

not too sure about frequencies...for me i just know that it should be kept under 85 db, i try to just keep everywhere im around to under 75 db just in case at an overall level

 

[billie48]

Here is a site which shows a chart of how many dBs some noises are and how long before damage is done to hearing:

http://dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

 

[Bobby B]

This scale is to be used when you have no damage to start with.
Fine if t is due to anxiety or depression

But If you have had previous acoustic trauma and already suffer from tinnitus due to noise damage then it's safe to say you can chop off another 20 Db at each level from that scale

 

[Alue]

Define high frequencies? I believe it was a short duration of very high frequencies that set off my T. I have wondered the same thing, though. I think high frequencies are more damaging to the high frequency hair cells as they resonate with them.

I agree with Bobby B to a point. I think OSHA standard for hearing protection are way too lenient. They are based on permanent threshold shifts, but Charles Liberman proved you can have significant auditory damage without seeing a permanent threshold shift. I think the OSHA standards should be revised or scrapped all together. NIOSH has a bit more strict standards.

 

[Zora]

a referee whistled in my ear, standing close to me during a match. I think it was high pitch. now my T is louder. But the game was only yesterday. I hope it settles.

 

[Lauren Morse]

@ Bobby B

Hmm, that may make sense? Albeit I do not think anything under 70 db is dangerous for long periods of time, even with damaged hearing. It may be enough to set off T for sure if one is sensitive, but not hearing damage.

I do agree, however, that the OSHA standards are not accurate for damaged ears neither are they accurate for high frequency noises. I did read a study somewhere listing danger zones for high frequencies as occurring 10 decibels lower than 85 db starting point, which makes sense.

...But why an 80-90 decibel 5-6 khz noise at half a second??! I'm probably sick in some other way so that I was prone to a reaction to my own high consonants, which explains why my ears are so vulnerable. I did have migraine symptoms after the fact too, with ear, eye, and sinus pain in the mix. I am still quite baffled, of course.

 

[Alue]

@ Bobby B

Hmm, that may make sense? Albeit I do not think anything under 70 db is dangerous for long periods of time, even with damaged hearing. It may be enough to set off T for sure if one is sensitive, but not hearing damage.

I do agree, however, that the OSHA standards are not accurate for damaged ears neither are they accurate for high frequency noises. I did read a study somewhere listing danger zones for high frequencies as occurring 10 decibels lower than 85 db starting point, which makes sense.

...But why an 80-90 decibel 5-6 khz noise at half a second??! I'm probably sick in some other way so that I was prone to a reaction to my own high consonants, which explains why my ears are so vulnerable. I did have migraine symptoms after the fact too, with ear, eye, and sinus pain in the mix. I am still quite baffled, of course.

Do you have a link to the study talking about the danger zones for high frequencies? I'd very much like to see it.

 

[Lauren Morse]

@Alue,

Here is a review of multiple studies. Unfortunately, the listings do not go below 8khz. I would not know where to find listings for 2-6 khz, which is surprising because those should be the most dangerous given our ears are the most sensitive to them:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...f_current_airborne_ultrasound_exposure_limits

 

[Lauren Morse]

@Alue,

Did you ever happen to find any articles about what happens at the high frequency range (2-6 khz?) if you are exposed to a momentary 80+ decibel noise? I am still really concerned, as I keep getting damage from pronouncing 's' too loudly with a total level of just barely over 80 db.
It seems the previous article I sent to you specified damage would be possible at those levels at 4 hour exposures, less for people who have damaged ears.

 

[Sam Bridge]

This scale is to be used when you have no damage to start with.
Fine if t is due to anxiety or depression

But If you have had previous acoustic trauma and already suffer from tinnitus due to noise damage then it's safe to say you can chop off another 20 Db at each level from that scale

How can you prove that?

 

[Alue]

@Lauren Morse
I don't know, I honestly haven't looked specifically for that since we last talked.
I doubt the levels you speak of would cause any harm. It's not like it's continuous for 10 hours.

I work in an area right next to a server and there are steam pipes nearby that make moderately loud high frequency sounds that is continuous. On a db meter it only reads about 55db, but that cuts off at 10kHz so there is no telling what the db is above 10kHz. It's really cumbersome because I don't know if it's loud enough to make things worse when exposed to for long periods of time, so I protect my hearing in my office, but when I put earplugs in all I can listen to is my tinnitus and it just screams.

How can you prove that?

How can you disprove that? I don't know about the 'chop off 20 db' part, but nobody knows what safe decibels are for already damaged ears. There are no white papers either way. But if you have a damaged system, it makes since that it is more susceptible to further damage.

The only way they could prove that is if they subject people with already damaged hearing to loud noises to see if there is a further deterioration. Even that is hard to prove because these OSHA standards were based on threshold shifts detected by a pure tone audiometry. It has been proven that there can be irreversible cochlear nerve degeneration due to sound exposure that is not detected by a pure tone audiometry.

 

[Sam Bridge]

@Lauren Morse
I don't know, I honestly haven't looked specifically for that since we last talked.
I doubt the levels you speak of would cause any harm. It's not like it's continuous for 10 hours.

I work in an area right next to a server and there are steam pipes nearby that make moderately loud high frequency sounds that is continuous. On a db meter it only reads about 55db, but that cuts off at 10kHz so there is no telling what the db is above 10kHz. It's really cumbersome because I don't know if it's loud enough to make things worse when exposed to for long periods of time, so I protect my hearing in my office, but when I put earplugs in all I can listen to is my tinnitus and it just screams.



How can you disprove that? I don't know about the 'chop off 20 db' part, but nobody knows what safe decibels are for already damaged ears. There are no white papers either way. But if you have a damaged system, it makes since that it is more susceptible to further damage.

The only way they could prove that is if they subject people with already damaged hearing to loud noises to see if there is a further deterioration. Even that is hard to prove because these OSHA standards were based on threshold shifts detected by a pure tone audiometry. It has been proven that there can be irreversible cochlear nerve degeneration due to sound exposure that is not detected by a pure tone audiometry.

So as i asked, there is no proof.

 

[PaulBe]

So as i asked, there is no proof.

And as long as volunteers aren't forthcoming there never will be.

 

[Sam Bridge]

And as long as volunteers aren't forthcoming there never will be.

Thats true. I have been to plenty of concerts with protection and have been okay so far. Before i came to this forum i didn't even consider not going. Maybe i should stop coming here..

 

[Alue]

So as i asked, there is no proof.

Proof of what? Proof that you can have damage undetectable by pure tone audiograms while staying within OSHA limits? Here is your proof: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812055/

Proof that already injured ears may be more susceptible to further damage, I don't have that for reasons I already stated. It may be different for every individual, so if you want to take a chance with yourself no one is stopping you. And it seems you haven't had an increase so far, so that's good. But for others loud noises make the ringing louder afterwords, that's proof enough for ourselves that we should avoid loud places. We don't need a large peer reviewed study to tell what our bodies are telling us.

 

[Sam Bridge]

Proof of what? Proof that you can have damage undetectable by pure tone audiograms while staying within OSHA limits? Here is your proof: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812055/

Proof that already injured ears may be more susceptible to further damage, I don't have that for reasons I already stated. It may be different for every individual, so if you want to take a chance with yourself no one is stopping you. And it seems you haven't had an increase so far, so that's good. But for others loud noises make the ringing louder afterwords, that's proof enough for ourselves that we should avoid loud places. We don't need a large peer reviewed study to tell what our bodies are telling us.

I suppose so, it is rather worrying. When i go concerts i would generally say about 10 percent of people wear plugs. I really don't think people are aware of t as a chronic condition. I have 30db dip at 4khz but T only in the right ear which is weird.So i am certainly more protectice of my hearing, no more earphones for me!

 

[Alue]

I suppose so, it is rather worrying. When i go concerts i would generally say about 10 percent of people wear plugs. I really don't think people are aware of t as a chronic condition. I have 30db dip at 4khz but T only in the right ear which is weird.So i am certainly more protectice of my hearing, no more earphones for me!

10% is a lot, a lot more than it was 10+ years ago. I've only been to a few, but the last rock concert I went to was in the early 2000s when I was still a teenager. I was a huge music fan, but for me they were way too loud for comfort. That's why I stopped going a long time ago. Maybe my ears were always more sensitive, but now that I think about it, I went to an outdoor concert I think around 2002, it was so loud I couldn't enjoy the music because my ears were ringing and the sound was all distorted and garbled together. I had completely forgotten about that experience, never had any hearing problems or persistent tinnitus until 6 months ago when I had my acoustic trauma, but thinking about it now makes me shutter. Are concerts that loud for everyone?

 

[Sam Bridge]

Yeah they are loud, a few times i have started off without the plugs but for me its too loud so i put them in and makes it alot easier on the ears. Don't know how people tolerate it...

 

[Sam Bridge]

10% is a lot, a lot more than it was 10+ years ago. I've only been to a few, but the last rock concert I went to was in the early 2000s when I was still a teenager. I was a huge music fan, but for me they were way too loud for comfort. That's why I stopped going a long time ago. Maybe my ears were always more sensitive, but now that I think about it, I went to an outdoor concert I think around 2002, it was so loud I couldn't enjoy the music because my ears were ringing and the sound was all distorted and garbled together. I had completely forgotten about that experience, never had any hearing problems or persistent tinnitus until 6 months ago when I had my acoustic trauma, but thinking about it now makes me shutter. Are concerts that loud for everyone?

What caused your trauma if you don't mind me asking and do you have a loss?

 

[PaulBe]

An analogy: How many sports stars do you see or hear of that finish up with a nagging injury that shortens their career because they always seem to be back and forth to Medical care and just never seem to get on top of it. The healing never occurs to the degree that they can continue to put the same stress on their body that they could before the injury. The thing may superficially heal, but the threshold for re-injury is now lower than the initial threshold for injury. I don't know if this observation has ever been studied/quantified, but in the meantime I think its worth keeping in mind.

 

[Sam Bridge]

An analogy: How many sports stars do you see or hear of that finish up with a nagging injury that shortens their career because they always seem to be back and forth to Medical care and just never seem to get on top of it. The healing never occurs to the degree that they can continue to put the same stress on their body that they could before the injury. The thing may superficially heal, but the threshold for re-injury is now lower than the initial threshold for injury. I don't know if this observation has ever been studied/quantified, but in the meantime I think its worth keeping in mind.

Yep, as i said above it is a worry but i will still go to a fee concerts a year. I have pretty much given up listening to music with earphones though.