I Invented a Sound That Knocked Out My Tinnitus

[rei]

The file is already in digital form and any decent sound software can analyze frequencies above 20 kHz. I can do it with Adobe Audition. But what the hell, maybe I'll give Tinnitus Mix another try. But if my tinnitus gets worse I'm going to sue you.

 

[dbeats]

Haha this is rich. Here is what happens when a frequency is above the Nyquist frequency. It's called aliasing.



Start from 1:57.

I urge EVERYONE to do some research before believing in snake oil like this.

 

[Cernuto]

Haha this is rich. Here is what happens when a frequency is above the Nyquist frequency. It's called aliasing.

Start from 1:57.

I urge EVERYONE to do some research before believing in snake oil like this.

If you play a square wave through a speaker that can accurately reproduce a square wave the result will be a square wave with odd order harmonic components that are above the fundamental frequency of the square wave.

This shows 39th harmonic in 22k is 858 kilohertz:

http://mustcalculate.com/electronics/harmonics.php?f=22k

 

[dbeats]

If you play a square wave through a speaker that can accurately reproduce a square wave the result will be a square wave with odd order harmonic components that are above the fundamental frequency of the square wave.

This shows 39th harmonic in 22k is 858 kilohertz:

http://mustcalculate.com/electronics/harmonics.php?f=22k

No, these are just theoretical harmonics. A speaker/headphones (a transducer) has a frequency range, which is the range of frequencies (cycles per second) that it can move air molecules (sound waves). Speakers normally range from 20 Hz to 20 kHz.

A pair of headphones that I know of can reproduce sounds up to 51 kHz, but this is highly unusual.

 

[sonicfckery]

As I understand it, the 2.8 MHz range was later discovered by a scientist, and Mr. Case found it interesting and posted it. He has not claimed it has been the purpose or the "cure" etc. So who cares, it's not too interesting tbh.

If you're just trying to find stuff to hate on, maybe just move on...

 

[Nyokx]

These also work with Tinnitus Mix. Many people said they can't sleep with headphones so we have been testing many earbuds trying to find ones that will pass ultra high frequencies.

View attachment 43779

Or try to get headphones or speakers that go to 25 kHz of higher.

Okay. Should I just use my smart phone connected to the headset to play and listen to the Tinnitus Mix?

 

[dbeats]

As I understand it, the 2.8 MHz range was later discovered by a scientist, and Mr. Case found it interesting and posted it. He has not claimed it has been the purpose or the "cure" etc. So who cares, it's not too interesting tbh.

If you're just trying to find stuff to hate on, maybe just move on...

In the conclusion of the paper, which Mr. Case is part of:

Quote: "The ultrasound frequencies, as obtained in this research, can reverse the process of creating tinnitus and therefore it heals the human beings suffering from it."

If this actually helped with tinnitus, it would NOT be because of any ultrasound frequencies. There objectively is no frequencies over the Nyquist frequency in a digital signal, or above the frequency range of a transducer (speaker/headphone). That's simply a fact, and something one just has to accept.

Please do no not believe the lies of this man.

 

[Cernuto]

No, these are just theoretical harmonics. A speaker/headphones (a transducer) has a frequency range, which is the range of frequencies (cycles per second) that it can move air molecules (sound waves). Speakers normally range from 20 Hz to 20 kHz.

A pair of headphones that I know of can reproduce sounds up to 51 kHz, but this is highly unusual.

It's not just theoretical. A square wave is comprised of harmonic components. This is academic. It has nothing to do with headphones. The harmonics are what makes a square wave a square wave.

 

[dbeats]

It's not just theoretical. A square wave is comprised of harmonic components. This is academic. It has nothing to do with headphones. The harmonics are what makes a square wave a square wave.

It's theoretical in the sense that you wouldn't be able to reproduce these harmonics on a speaker or headphones.

 

[Cernuto]

It's theoretical in the sense that you wouldn't be able to reproduce these harmonics on a speaker or headphones.

A speaker can create a square wave with some accuracy. That square wave of air molecules compressing and expanding has harmonic components that are higher in frequency. Yes, this seems a bit off. It doesn't make it false though. Also, the EM wave emitted from the coil in the speaker has harmonic components. EM waves have clinically proven therapeutic benefit. I believe it is worth research and study.

 

[dbeats]

A speaker can create a square wave with some accuracy. That square wave of air molecules compressing and expanding has harmonic components that are higher in frequency. Yes, this seems a bit off. It doesn't make it false though. Also, the EM wave emitted from the coil in the speaker has harmonic components. EM waves have clinically proven therapeutic benefit. I believe it is worth research and study.

Of course a speaker can produce a square wave with some accuracy, which I have never tried to refute. What it can't do is produce the content that Mr. Case is claiming, and it can't produce the harmonics that the web page is showing.

 

[Cernuto]

Of course a speaker can produce a square wave with some accuracy, which I have never tried to refute. What it can't do is produce the content that Mr. Case is claiming, and it can't produce the harmonics that the web page is showing.

Have you proven this? Do you have data you can show? Perhaps you've done spectral analysis of signal harmonics across his audio file?

 

[dbeats]

Have you proven this? Do you have data you can show? Perhaps you've done spectral analysis of signal harmonics across his audio file?

I'm not going to repeat this, because at this point you are simply ignoring the information I am presenting.

I posted a picture of the sample rate of the file. I posted information about Nyquist frequency and I posted a video about Aliasing.

There will not be ANY frequencies over the Nyquist frequency (which in this case is 44100Hz / 2). You can run through the whole track with a spectrum analyzer and you will never see any information above it, and the information that is above the Nyquist frequency, will be aliased.

Here it is. Complete spectrogram of the whole file. Timeline on x-axis, frequencies on y-axis. Demonstrating exactly what I've written.

 

[Cernuto]

I'm not going to repeat this, because at this point you are simply ignoring the information I am presenting.

I posted a picture of the sample rate of the file. I posted information about Nyquist frequency and I posted a video about Aliasing.

There will not be ANY frequencies over the Nyquist frequency (which in this case is 44100Hz / 2). You can run through the whole track with a spectrum analyzer and you will never see any information above it, and the information that is above the Nyquist frequency, will be aliased.

Here it is. Complete spectrogram of the whole file. Timeline on x-axis, frequencies on y-axis. Demonstrating exactly what I've written.

View attachment 43819

Can you explain the difference between a sine wave and a square wave? What is the hard edge of a square wave comprised of?

 

[dbeats]

Can you explain the difference between a sine wave and a square wave? What is the hard edge of a square wave comprised of?

A sine wave is a pure tone, while a square wave contains the pure tone and a series of harmonics.

Here you can see what happens if you play a square wave with the sample rate set to 44.1 kHz. The overtones above the Nyquist frequency gets folded (aliased) back.

Here's a more practical example of what happens (in this case, a square wave).



From 2:02.

This is at least what happens in the digital domain. I suppose converting the square wave from digital to analog would make the frequency range of the speaker determine the highest harmonic it can produce.

There are probably other factors which I am not that aware of that also affects the analog signal (I am not an electrical engineer, so Google will provide better answers).

 

[Cernuto]

A sine wave is a pure tone, while a square wave contains the pure tone and a series of harmonics.

Here you can see what happens if you play a square wave with the sample rate set to 44.1 kHz. The overtones above the Nyquist frequency gets folded (aliased) back.

View attachment 43820

Here's a more practical example of what happens (in this case, a square wave).



From 2:02.

This is at least what happens in the digital domain. I suppose converting the square wave from digital to analog would make the frequency range of the speaker determine the highest harmonic it can produce.

There are probably other factors which I am not that aware of that also affects the analog signal (I am not an electrical engineer, so Google will provide better answers).

OK, I've read what you have written and watched the video and it makes sense. I understand when the recording was made there can't be any information from the original signal above the Nyquist frequency encoded in the recording. However, I still believe a square wave is going to have higher-order harmonics above the fundamental frequency. So, when the audio is played back and a square wave is produced that square wave will have higher-order harmonics with the caveat these are not the same harmonics that were present before recording.

So, new, higher-order harmonics introduced during playback: 'square wave' -> D/A -> amplifier -> wires -> speaker -> air. This is my present understanding which may be wrong. Interesting stuff nonetheless.

 

[buttercake]

From a pure theoretical perspective yes, a square wave "contains" (i.e. can be written as superposition of) infinitely many odd-integer harmonics - it is enough to look at its Fourier series. Essentially any periodic signal can be written as infinite sum of cosine and sines. My guess is that what @dbeats means is that speakers cannot reproduce harmonics above a certain frequency (it makes sense to me... how could a speaker reproduce sin(10000000000000000)?); thus when your speakers reproduce a square wave, they are actually reproducing an approximation thereof (its Fourier series truncated at some index).

 

[T Toledo OH]

From a pure theoretical perspective yes, a square wave "contains" (i.e. can be written as superposition of) infinitely many odd-integer harmonics - it is enough to look at its Fourier series. Essentially any periodic signal can be written as infinite sum of cosine and sines. My guess is that what @dbeats means is that speakers cannot reproduce harmonics above a certain frequency (it makes sense to me... how could a speaker reproduce sin(10000000000000000)?); thus when your speakers reproduce a square wave, they are actually reproducing an approximation thereof (its Fourier series truncated at some index).

Regardless of all this, how many people on Tinnitus Talk have tried this and found it helped?

 

[Cernuto]

From a pure theoretical perspective yes, a square wave "contains" (i.e. can be written as superposition of) infinitely many odd-integer harmonics - it is enough to look at its Fourier series. Essentially any periodic signal can be written as infinite sum of cosine and sines. My guess is that what @dbeats means is that speakers cannot reproduce harmonics above a certain frequency (it makes sense to me... how could a speaker reproduce sin(10000000000000000)?); thus when your speakers reproduce a square wave, they are actually reproducing an approximation thereof (its Fourier series truncated at some index).

I don't think this is only in theory. I think those higher order harmonics are indeed present. Think about why a square wave sounds different from a sine wave and what must really be going on.

However, the prevalence of the harmonics depends on the sharpness of the square wave edges emitted by the speaker? The more rounded the edges are correlates how quickly the higher order harmonics drop in amplitude as you iterate up through them? I think the speaker may introduce harmonics of its own. Maybe something peculiar about this setup allows some energy to be present at 2.8 MHz?

 

[dbeats]

I don't think this is only in theory. I think those higher order harmonics are indeed present. Think about why a square wave sounds different from a sine wave and what must really be going on.

However, the prevalence of the harmonics depends on the sharpness of the square wave edges emitted by the speaker? The more rounded the edges are correlates how quickly the higher order harmonics drop in amplitude as you iterate up through them? I think the speaker may introduce harmonics of its own. Maybe something peculiar about this setup allows some energy to be present at 2.8 MHz?

I know that there are components of the speaker that resonate, which can create different peaks in the frequency response.

But 2.8 MHz I think is about 7 octaves above 20 kHz according to my calculations... That means the tweeter of the speaker needs to move 2 800 000 times in a second to create a sound this high. That's an insane high speed, and it's just not possible for the tweeter to move at this rate.

 

[Cernuto]

I know that there are components of the speaker that resonate, which can create different peaks in the frequency response.

But 2.8 MHz I think is about 7 octaves above 20 kHz according to my calculations... That means the tweeter of the speaker needs to move 2 800 000 times in a second to create a sound this high. That's an insane high speed, and it's just not possible for the tweeter to move at this rate.

I agree, I don't think a common tweeter is ever going to produce a steady 2.8 MHz wave. The edges of the highest wave it can produce though. If they are square they will have harmonics. The more square they are the more energy in harmonics. I'm sure there's a word for it. Maybe transient response or impulse response? Also, distortions in the edges of a square wave introduced by the speaker will introduce even more harmonics. Could these harmonics extend into the mhz range? I think perhaps, but I suppose the question is are they significant? Can they be measured?

 

[dbeats]

I agree, I don't think a common tweeter is ever going to produce a steady 2.8 MHz wave. The edges of the highest wave it can produce though. If they are square they will have harmonics. The more square they are the more energy in harmonics. I'm sure there's a word for it. Maybe transient response or impulse response? Also, distortions in the edges of a square wave introduced by the speaker will introduce even more harmonics. Could these harmonics extend into the mhz range? I think perhaps, but I suppose the question is are they significant? Can they be measured?

I can measure it one day on a quality loudspeaker. I have a Zoom H5 handheld recorder that supports up to 96 kHz sampling rate. I know people use recordings of ultrasounds in sound design, because if you pitch them down enough you will be able to hear them.

The normal way to measure a loudspeakers frequency response is to use a high quality measurement microphone (expensive) in a anechoic chamber, with the loudspeaker playing a sweep (rising sine tone, probably from 20 - 20 000 Hz).

 

[R. David Case]

In the conclusion of the paper, which Mr. Case is part of:

Quote: "The ultrasound frequencies, as obtained in this research, can reverse the process of creating tinnitus and therefore it heals the human beings suffering from it."

If this actually helped with tinnitus, it would NOT be because of any ultrasound frequencies. There objectively is no frequencies over the Nyquist frequency in a digital signal, or above the frequency range of a transducer (speaker/headphone). That's simply a fact, and something one just has to accept.

Please do no not believe the lies of this man.

you can argue that with the university of Essex and in the United kingdom, I am just posting the case study and results.

 

[dbeats]

you can argue that with the university of Essex and in the United kingdom, I am just posting the case study and results.

What? Your name is clearly on that paper, so why are you trying to distance yourself?

 

[R. David Case]

I can measure it one day on a quality loudspeaker. I have a Zoom H5 handheld recorder that supports up to 96 kHz sampling rate. I know people use recordings of ultrasounds in sound design, because if you pitch them down enough you will be able to hear them.

The normal way to measure a loudspeakers frequency response is to use a high quality measurement microphone (expensive) in a anechoic chamber, with the loudspeaker playing a sweep (rising sine tone, probably from 20 - 20 000 Hz).

I was thinking it was the mixing of different frequencies AFTER they leave the Koss drivers, but Dr. Dineshen thinks that MAGNETOSTRICTION is the reason for the 2.8 MHz. I am an electronic engineer but even this is above me somewhat.

 

[R. David Case]

I agree, I don't think a common tweeter is ever going to produce a steady 2.8 MHz wave. The edges of the highest wave it can produce though. If they are square they will have harmonics. The more square they are the more energy in harmonics. I'm sure there's a word for it. Maybe transient response or impulse response? Also, distortions in the edges of a square wave introduced by the speaker will introduce even more harmonics. Could these harmonics extend into the mhz range? I think perhaps, but I suppose the question is are they significant? Can they be measured?

Yes I understand what your saying, but Dr Dineshen of ESSEX University explains it is MAGNETOSTRICTION. This may somehow overcome the ratings of the Koss headphones (just my opinion). I think it may have something to do with the titanium drivers in the Koss, maybe the density or something on a molecular level (just my opinion).

 

[R. David Case]

I know that there are components of the speaker that resonate, which can create different peaks in the frequency response.

But 2.8 MHz I think is about 7 octaves above 20 kHz according to my calculations... That means the tweeter of the speaker needs to move 2 800 000 times in a second to create a sound this high. That's an insane high speed, and it's just not possible for the tweeter to move at this rate.

Dr Dineshen is way smarter than me and more testing will be done when his case study is published in a worldwide science journal in a few weeks. I don't think he is going to fake a study and publish it when he works for the British government! He says the scientific community will be bombarding us with questions.

 

[R. David Case]

Regardless of all this, how many people on Tinnitus Talk have tried this and found it helped?

About 12 people on this thread have said they tried Tinnitus Mix, 8 say they had great results so that is actually higher success rate than than my average of 50%. The problem is all the talking heads with mob mentality ridiculing ANYONE that posts a success story about Tinnitus Mix as this member states!!

 

[R. David Case]

I'm not going to repeat this, because at this point you are simply ignoring the information I am presenting.

I posted a picture of the sample rate of the file. I posted information about Nyquist frequency and I posted a video about Aliasing.

There will not be ANY frequencies over the Nyquist frequency (which in this case is 44100Hz / 2). You can run through the whole track with a spectrum analyzer and you will never see any information above it, and the information that is above the Nyquist frequency, will be aliased.

Here it is. Complete spectrogram of the whole file. Timeline on x-axis, frequencies on y-axis. Demonstrating exactly what I've written.

View attachment 43819

I think we are all focusing too much on the maximum ratings of the CD and the Koss headphones and are losing sight of what is really going on. See my post on Dr Dinshen's MAGNETOSTRICTION information in my above posts.

 

[R. David Case]

The file is already in digital form and any decent sound software can analyze frequencies above 20 kHz. I can do it with Adobe Audition. But what the hell, maybe I'll give Tinnitus Mix another try. But if my tinnitus gets worse I'm going to sue you.

Nice post, I have helped 1000 people for free and you know the risks when you try something given out free. If you have reactive tinnitus, no sound therapy will help. Nobody has ever got a permanent spike from Tinnitus Mix, if any spike occurs, it only lasts a few days, by the time you get to court it will be gone. So you have been legally warned.

You should work on your personality and not your tinnitus.