I Want to Become a Musician... Should I Not Because of Having Tinnitus and Minor Hyperacusis?

[ijustwannajam]

I have tinnitus and minor hyperacusis (ringing against some high-end frequencies) and want(ed?) to become a professional musician and at least play in a band. I'm 16 and got tinnitus a year and a half ago from overexposure to loud noises from headphones.

I've learned to live with it but discovering music as a passion has been a bit of a curse, because I'm afraid that my condition will only worsen even with earplugs playing at live music venues.

I recently stopped using headphones entirely and only listen to music at a moderate level on my JBL speaker.

Is my dream crushed? I feel so lost right now, my peers don't have to deal with this anxiety.

My bigger concern is the minor hyperacusis, which means that my ears are incredibly sensitive

 

[Michael Leigh]

HI @ijustwannajam

I am sorry to know that you have tinnitus and hyperacusis although thankfully the hyperacusis is minor at the moment. I am a positive thinking person about tinnitus and life, because I think it's the best way forward with this condition, rather than to wallow in self pity and to be negative. I am also a realist having spent four long years habituating to tinnitus for the second time which sapped every ounce of my positivity. There were times I thought I wouldn't make it and hope I never have to endure that experience again and it's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Please click on the link below and read my post: My experience with tinnitus.

Since you have asked for advice it is with a heavy heart I say, try and choose another career to go into rather than making music professionally, because I think your tinnitus and hyperacusis will become worse especially playing in a band. Loud music and tinnitus do not go well together. I know some professional musicians with tinnitus openly scoff when people say they had to stop playing in their band because of tinnitus. These musicians are able to do this because their tinnitus hasn't reached a debilitating stage yet. The believe that it's mind over matter and one can immerse themselves in loud music as much as they want is a fallacy, that I assure you as night follows day.

Anyone with noise induced tinnitus that plays in a band, listens to loud music or uses headphones even at low volume, risks making their tinnitus louder and ultimately affecting their mental health in my opinion. Sorry to sound so sobering.

Please click on the links below which I think you may find helpful. Take your time and read them thoroughly.

Take care and I wish you well.
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-experience-with-tinnitus.12076/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/what-is-severe-debilitating-tinnitus.35032/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-to-tinnitus-what-to-do.12558/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-habituation-process.20767/

 

[MRItechssuck]

What type of musician...? Acoustic instruments should be ok.

 

[david c]

I would be definitely extremely cautious about what you do from now on. It's important to remember that both tinnitus and hyperacusis can get worse as well as better and that continued exposure to loud noise is the thing which is most likely to make them worse. In terms of your professional future that does mean some hard choices and looking for other career avenues.

 

[Juan]

To be honest, if I were you, I would try to choose another career instead of becoming a musician. It takes a long time to become a good musician, and your ears could in the end ruin your dream after you attain it because of hyperacusis, tinnitus, hearing loss or hearing distortion. This happened to a good friend of mine...

 

[Tanni]

Hi ijustwannajam,

I'm sorry to hear you are having to deal with this condition so young. Well done for finding a way to manage it.

You have asked whether or not to pursue a music career on a Tinnitus forum, so you are only going to get the one answer I'm afraid . Many of us on this forum really struggle with having Tinnitus/Hyperacusis, and could not imagine taking such a big risk of worsening it.

However -- we do not represent everyone with Tinnitus, and we are not you. People with Tinnitus take risks every day depending on whether they think the payoff is worth it for them -- even on this forum. Of course there are huge risks involved with opting for a career that is so punishing on the ears, especially if your ears are already compromised. But if music is your passion and you don't feel that you could live a complete life without it, you will find a way to perform music whilst protecting your ears as much as humanly possible. And should your condition be affected by it, that will be the trade off. We cannot make the call for you, because only you will know if the risk is worth it for you.

Many musicians have Tinnitus, and seem to manage the condition -- if you decide to follow in their footsteps, please research the best ear protection possible and always make it your number one priority.

 

[Bill Bauer]

You are right to be worried.

You can ignore reality, but you won't be able to ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

Having said this - it's a risk. There is a chance that it will work out. There's a chance that you will get debilitating tinnitus...

 

[Juan]

@Tanni

I have seen old musicians play with hearing aids in some of the most famous orchestras in the world, but my guess is these musicians got hearing loss after they mastered their instruments and how to play in an orchestra, maybe at a late stage in their careers.

I do know musicians whose career was ruined due to tinnitus and hyperacusis, at an early stage, and that's why I said pursuing a career in music from scratch (not having even started) knowing that hyperacusis and tinnitus are there already is, at least, risky, and could end up in big disappointment (of course, I would like to be wrong on this one).

 

[GregCA]

What type of musician...? Acoustic instruments should be ok.

Keep in mind that acoustic instruments can be extremely loud: drums, for one, is very loud in acoustic version, and much safer in electronic version (I play e-drums for that reason). Some brass instruments have their loud sound output right by your ear.

It my mind, what matters is the volume, acoustic or not. Protect your hearing no matter what you play.

 

[Born To Slay]

I'd put all this on hold man. New treatments are coming in the next few years and it'd be better to get a bad case after they're out then be stuck here waiting for them.

 

[Michael Leigh]

You are right to be worried.

You can ignore reality, but you won't be able to ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

Having said this - it's a risk. There is a chance that it will work out. There's a chance that you will get debilitating tinnitus...

Well said @Bill Bauer one can sugarcoat noise induced tinnitus all they like and tell people what they want to hear. Using headphones is fine as long as the volume is kept low. Go out and live your life do anything that you want. The brutal harsh reality is much different. They don't say: if the tinnitus increases seldom will it reduce to its previous manageable level and could steadily get worse. I have corresponded with people by telephone crying because of the distress they are in, because of following the wrong advice and using headphones or listening to loud music and now they are in torment!

Michael

 

[serendipity1996]

I'm going to be honest and say that I'm not sure continuing with music is the wisest idea. It really really sucks but trust me you do not want your hyperacusis to worsen when it could be avoided - worst-case scenario you wind up with severe chronic pain and unable to leave the house. Your ears are unfortunately 'damaged' so you're always going to be at risk of re-injury. Do you have other interests you could focus on?

 

[Zugzug]

This is a tough one. What I would probably do is explore the possibility of transforming it into a style that doesn't aggravate them. If that cannot be done, I would find another career and turn (quieter) music into my passion hobby. But everyone is different.

 

[Mister Muso]

We often hear about musicians carrying on with tinnitus, but sadly the tales of those with hyperacusis are more rare. I've taken a year out from playing live as a hobby. Have managed to return to playing the piano with earplugs after a break of a few months. Even had a couple of acoustic recording/jam sessions without amplification. I'm just trying to decide whether to explore making some acoustic music live, under very highly controlled conditions. For example, if using a sound system at a rehearsal, I would ensure that I am the one setting up and controlling it, not entrusting it to some numpty who turns everything all the way up when they can't hear anything. I gave myself additional damage in my "good" ear in this way, which has led to tinnitus tones that disturb my sleep more than the tones I previously had.

It's been excruciating for me, because music was my life - as a hobby at least, although I've often regretted not becoming a professional musician. But then again, if I had, I may have ended up wrecking my hearing in my 20s instead of my 50s.

I know this is difficult to hear but please re-consider your plans if those plans included live acoustic drums, electric guitars or brass instruments. Even a vocal PA system can wreak permanent damage if used incorrectly as a feedback generator, as happened in my case.

EDITED to add a more positive note:

If you do take a complete break from music for a year or two, you may be young enough for your ears to heal and you could thereby pursue your dreams afterwards. Pete Townshend of The Who took 15 years out from The Who after which he said his tinnitus was completely cured and he is cranking it out with them again. I don't know if he ever mentioned hyperacusis however.

Best of luck to you.

 

[tiniturtle]

I have a music degree and audio engineering degree. I've worked in a studio and performed live and never had a problem with volume or tinnitus, ironically. I've always worn earplugs at concerts or live. That is key. In a studio, the volume is never too loud, on the other side of the glass. You can hear fine with earplugs and they roll off about 30db.

Again, ironically, I developed tinnitus close to 20 years later, not from being a musician, but from an antibiotic.

Key takeaway, don't be stupid, wear earplugs. Don't worry about if you look cool or if anyone makes fun of you for it, because then they are stupid, and let them suffer. Take care of yourself and you will be fine.

 

[Emgee]

At the end of the day, you're going to do whatever you feel is right.

However, I will contribute my two cents as I was a former musician who ended up with severe reactive tinnitus and some hyperacusis to boot. The worst part: I'm only 23 and homebound.

I attended so many concerts and shows I can't even recall them in one sitting. In addition, I had band practices, solo practices, and hours of listening to music at unsafe volumes (earphones, car, speakers, etc.) A few months ago, one loud band practice left me debilitated. I haven't recovered since. The other band members at the practice are fine to this day, still playing shows. There is an element of bad luck involved in this whole thing. You're playing with fire and hoping you don't get burnt.

I never knew the horrors of hearing damage. I always just thought one day it would catch up to me when I became elderly, and I would be left with some hearing loss. I expected hearing loss, but I didn't anticipate crippling tinnitus. I didn't even know what the latter was. There is a significant lack of awareness regarding hearing damage, but I digress.

Ultimately, it's your call. I just want to express the notion that it can happen to you. I didn't get a warning. Prior to my situation, I didn't even have mild tinnitus. I went from no tinnitus to severe tinnitus after one noise exposure. I also came to find that I had a bad ear infection around the same time, which I'm sure could have also contributed a bit (my tinnitus is unilateral).

Please be careful. If you're going to play, take caution and safety. Earplugs will be a must. Be aware of sound levels and how long you're exposing yourself. I'm just hoping I can one day get back to playing acoustic guitar and songwriting. My days of electric guitar-rocking are long gone.

Best of luck. Be smart. Be safe.

 

[Tanni]

It's really nice to hear from all the musicians on this thread. People ask this sort of question a lot, and I often think that it's easy for people like me to say 'don't do it', because we don't understand what it's like to have to give up your passion. So hearing advise from a musician's perspective is very valuable, I think.

 

[Michael Leigh]

To those that think wearing earplugs they will be safe when around loud sound. Nothing more could be further from the truth. I agree wearing earplugs is better than nothing. However, some people do not know that if sound/music is loud enough, almost certain in a band environment, it will pass through the head/skull and be transferred to the inner ear by bone conduction and irritate the cochlea. This can spike the tinnitus or increase it to a new permanent level, no earplugs can stop this happening.

Michael

 

[Tanni]

[...] if sound/music is loud enough, almost certain in a band environment, it will pass through the head/skull and be transferred to the inner ear by bone conduction and irritate the cochlea.

I may very well be wrong here... but don't you have to be touching the thing that makes the sound in order for bone conduction to happen? For instance, Beethoven used bone conduction to hear his piano playing, but he had to be holding a rod in his mouth first. And you can get bone conduction headphones, but they have to be touching the bone to work...

As I say, I may very well be wrong, but that was what I always assumed...

 

[100Hz]

I faced something similar about 4 years ago, regularly either gigging or going to events etc. After one bad one I had a week of tinnitus like I'd never had before but it went away, I put it down to temporary tinnitus and I carried on but I wish I'd taken it as a serious warning sign. I did get earplugs made because of it though.

I got even more into music in various ways until eventually one day I had an acoustic shock which lead to debilitating tinnitus & hyperacusis. I recover to an extent every now and then (usually takes months after a bad setback), but it always comes back now especially if I dare to start playing around with music again, with or without earplugs. Once I got to a certain point earplugs didn't do much for me anymore, I do use them and they protect a bit but if anything is loud enough it will still lead to a setback.

I would have, at the very least, taken things so much slower/quieter if I'd known what was round the corner.

One final thing if you haven't already done it, research and read as much as you can about hyperacusis. I'd never even heard about it until I started googling my symptoms.

Best of luck, sorry to hear you got this at such a young age.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I may very well be wrong here... but don't you have to be touching the thing that makes the sound in order for bone conduction to happen? For instance, Beethoven used bone conduction to hear his piano playing, but he had to be holding a rod in his mouth first. And you can get bone conduction headphones, but they have to be touching the bone to work...

As I say, I may very well be wrong, but that was what I always assumed...

You make a valid point @Tanni All I'll say is peruse some of the many posts in this forum from people with noise induced tinnitus, who have attended clubs, concerts and play in bands and use earplugs or professional musician moulded plugs of high quality and noticed their tinnitus either spiked or increased to a new permanent level. When a person develops noise induced tinnitus and I'm specifically referring to Noise induced tinnitus, with or without hyperacusis, their auditory system changes and becomes more sensitive. Of course the amount of change will differ from person to person. However, one thing is for certain, even after they have habituated sometimes for many years (me included) we are never completely out of the woods. By this I mean we have to be diligent and careful and take nothing for granted and believe we can throw caution to the wind.

I had completely habituated and my tinnitus was low the severe hyperacusis completely cured. This was prior to 2008. One evening I was listening to my HI-FI a classical symphony by Haydn and turned up the volume. Everything was fine, went to bed and the next morning the tinnitus was much more noticeable and grew louder over the following days and within a couple of weeks intolerable. I returned to ENT and started TRT for the 2nd time. That was the beginning of 4 years nightmare that I have written about in my post: My experience with tinnitus.

My story is a familiar one, told to me by many people with noise induced tinnitus that have habituated and forgotten completely about it because they have habituated so well. That is the sad truth about this condition, one can forget they have tinnitus and that's when danger can strike. The risk is always there. I am not saying one must live their life in fear of sound on the contrary, but they have to be realistic and realize their are certain dangers if they subject their auditory system to loud sound with or without hearing protection. Noise induced tinnitus can be ruthless and very unforgiving and has no mercy when a person is in distress.

All the best
Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Tanni

Tanni, you might find the post below interesting written by a forum member @Bill Weir who's and audio engineer. Although he does not directly talk about bone conduction he mentions that all loud sounds are dangerous and not to put trust in earplugs.

Michael

Hi!
I'm an audio engineer and now have T. I hate to have to tell you this but there are no earplugs that can protect you in the typical nightclub environment. The best protection will only lower the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) by about 30 db. Assuming the sound is typical, it's going to hover around 105 db A when measured using long term averaging, slow response on a meter. This means there will be peaks well in excess of 120 db"A" weighted. Weighting the scales of measurement on the sound meter gives more accurate readings. "A" weighting approximates what your eardrum is sensitive to... meaning sound with the deep bass filtered out. "C" weighting includes the bass and is generally 15-30 db higher than an "A" reading.

So, 105 db A (typical nightclub or major concert translates into 130 db "C" or more including the bass. How long do people generally stay in the average nightclub? Too long! 4 hour stay is average. A concert is generally 2.5 hours. Many people will stay in the club all night until they are "OK" to drive and be back in public LMAO. The drugs people do screws up their judgement and desensitizes them to physical sensation and people damage themselves without realizing it. Sound levels pretty much everywhere are TOO loud IMO. Instead of the industry standard 105 db A (Live Nation SPL cap) I like to keep it at 96-98 for people.

Why so loud? Above 96 db the fight or flight response begins to kick in and you get that rush of excitement you get at a concert. It's a lot of what people pay for. Deep bass goes in through bone transconductance. You don't "hear" it with your eardrum you feel it This is how it is possible to have bass with headphones. If this transconductance did not occur, the long wavelengths that make bass would not have enough distance to unfold when using headphones. So, earplugs DO NOT protect you from low frequency damage. Not even a little bit.

So, on the one hand, you're going to have 100db + peaks getting through your earplugs in the range above 100 Hz (low note on a 4 string bass guitar is 41.7 Hz) and the bass below will pressurize your cochlea like nothing is even there, straight through the bone. Some of the subwoofer arrays I have installed in places must have security grating around them to keep people from getting within ten feet of the subwoofer array because the array produces well over 150 db down at 35Hz at 1 meter distance and would make them nauseous or in some extreme cases even worse than that.

I can say this definitively from direct personal and professional experience. If you value your hearing and do not want your tinnitus to increase, avoid these places or if you must go limit your exposure considerably.

 

[Tanni]

You make a valid point @Tanni All I'll say is peruse some of the many posts in this forum from people with noise induced tinnitus, who have attended clubs, concerts and play in bands and use earplugs or professional musician moulded plugs of high quality and noticed their tinnitus either spiked or increased to a new permanent level. When a person develops noise induced tinnitus and I'm specifically referring to Noise induced tinnitus, with or without hyperacusis, their auditory system changes and becomes more sensitive. Of course the amount of change will differ from person to person. However, one thing is for certain, even after they have habituated sometimes for many years (me included) we are never completely out of the woods. By this I mean we have to be diligent and careful and take nothing for granted and believe we can throw caution to the wind.

I had completely habituated and my tinnitus was low the severe hyperacusis completely cured. This was prior to 2008. One evening I was listening to my HI-FI a classical symphony by Haydn and turned up the volume. Everything was fine, went to bed and the next morning the tinnitus was much more noticeable and grew louder over the following days and within a couple of weeks intolerable. I returned to ENT and started TRT for the 2nd time. That was the beginning of 4 years nightmare that I have written about in my post: My experience with tinnitus.

My story is a familiar one, told to me by many people with noise induced tinnitus that have habituated and forgotten completely about it because they have habituated so well. That is the sad truth about this condition, one can forget they have tinnitus and that's when danger can strike. The risk is always there. I am not saying one must live their life in fear of sound on the contrary, but they have to be realistic and realize their are certain dangers if they subject their auditory system to loud sound with or without hearing protection. Noise induced tinnitus can be ruthless and very unforgiving and has no mercy when a person is in distress.

All the best
Michael

Oh, I completely agree with you about noise damage Michael. I was just wondering about the bone conduction thing in particular, because I see it mentioned a lot on the forum to warn of the dangers of being near a sound system for instance, but I always thought it didn't apply unless you are touching said sound system. Maybe someone on here knows about this and can confirm?

The engineer letter was very interesting. A lot of it was quite technical and therefore a bit over my head, but I think he was saying that earplugs do protect in terms of lowering noise levels (and so would be useful to use in regular environments), but even the best ones aren't enough to protect against sound in a nightclub because the sound is way too loud to begin with. I can certainly believe that that's true.

When I had TRT, they advised that you could spend a certain amount of time (I think 4 hours?) in a nightclub with earplugs and be fine. It's a shame there is so much conflicting information out there. It didn't sound right to me at the time, and I've certainly not been in one since getting Tinnitus, but then that's me.

 

[Michael Leigh]

t I always thought it didn't apply unless you are touching said sound system. Maybe someone on here knows about this and can confirm?

The engineer letter was very interesting. A lot of it was quite technical and therefore a bit over my hea

@Tanni

I once thought the same as you regarding bone conduction. That the sound source had to be directly on the Mastoid bone, that is the hard piece of bone behind each ear which you referred to earlier for it to reach the inner ear. As you rightly say this is the place where a doctor places a tuning fork and the sound is transferred to the inner ear. I can't remember the website I read, some years ago about the dangers some people face who have noise induced tinnitus and attend nightclubs thinking they are completely safe using earplugs. It mentioned sound can be passed through the head/skull and be transferred to the inner ear by bone conduction. This can spike the tinnitus and also increase it to a new permanent level.

I have corresponded with many people over the years with noise induced tinnitus at forums, email and on the telephone. In this forum people have mentioned their tinnitus spiking or increasing to a new permanent level after attending clubs, concerts and the cinema thinking they are safe wearing quality earplugs or moulded musician type. The sound at these venues comes from all directions and reflects off walls, ceiling and the ground. Low frequency Bass can also be harmful, something a lot of people don't realise. This is how I've learnt about the danger of exposure to sound from people with noise induced tinnitus by talking to them and not just personal experience.

A member of this forum contacted me some time back. She had habituated to her tinnitus for 6 years and it was low. Originally caused by headphones. She was able to work and carry on with her life doing everything that she wanted. She decided to try using headphones and kept the volume low. Within one week her tinnitus increased and her life was turned upside down, so badly affected she was unable to return to work.

The engineer letter was very interesting. A lot of it was quite technical and therefore a bit over my head

Although the engineer's post is interesting I also found it technical and over my head too. I respect ENT doctors for their expertise as physicians and knowing about the anatomy of the ear and medical conditions that can affect it, and their ability to be able to treat these conditions medically or surgically. I have no qualms about that. However, when it comes to tinnitus I am sorry to say most know very little about it in particular noise induced tinnitus. The same applies to some (not all) Audiologists that tell patients with NIT that using headphones is safe as long as the volume is kept low.
A woman telephoned me in distress one evening some time ago after following the advice of her Audiologist - telling her to listen to music through headphones at low volume to treat her tinnitus. I am appalled at some of the erroneous advice these health professionals give to tinnitus patients because many haven't got a clue about noise induced tinnitus. To top it all organizations like the BTA endorse the use of these dangerous devices. That is just one of the reasons I stopped my subscription to their magazine.

Take care
Michael

 

[Mister Muso]

Bone conduction is real.

I've experienced it at a concert where I was double-protecting with foam plugs and noise-cancelling headphones, but it felt as if I had protection at all. The bass frequencies felt so ridiculously loud.

It was so uncomfortable I had to leave the venue, and that was probably the last concert I'll ever go to.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Bone conduction is real.

I've experienced it at a concert where I was double-protecting with foam plugs and noise-cancelling headphones, but it felt as if I had protection at all. The bass frequencies felt so ridiculously loud.

It was so uncomfortable I had to leave the venue, and that was probably the last concert I'll ever go to.

Bone conduction is certainly is real @Mister Muso pleased you were able to leave the venue in time so you weren't too affected, some people aren't so fortunate.....

 

[Mister Muso]

Bone conduction is certainly is real @Mister Muso pleased you were able to leave the venue in time so you weren't too affected, some people aren't so fortunate.....

I did manage to leave before damage occurred, but if it had been a few minutes longer I may not have been so lucky. I could feel the vibrations encircling each ear outwith the area covered by the headphones.

My main problems were caused on prior occasions. The only reason I went to this festival was to see my old band who were playing a 40 minute afternoon set outdoors, at a venue just down the road from my house, which turned out not to be too bad. It was the band after them who nearly caused the damage. I really feel it's not worth the risk of playing Russian roulette with my ears any more.

 

[Luman]

First off, professional musicians have a much higher rate of noise induced tinnitus, than the general population. They don't talk about it much, so as not to scare away their audiences.

For 99.9% of human history, there were no amplifiers or loudspeakers. There were, concert halls that had good acoustics, without the need for further amplification, which sounded better than the world's best electronic sound systems ever could.

Playing music professionally is a very, difficult thing to do, full time, regardless of the risk of tinnitus. I'd say that 95% of the young people who want to do it, never get there. You should play music because you love it, that is first and foremost. I don't know what instrument(s) you're interested in, by there are many choices that would not be risky at all, especially stringed, acoustic instruments, electronic keyboards not cranked up, acoustic pianos that have a decibel level of between 60 and 70, and many more. I would stay away from trumpet, and other instruments that are either very loud, or are meant to be played in a very loud orchestra, band, etc.

 

[Mister Muso]

Since lockdown I've been making music online with friends using free software called Bandlab. Google it. It's not the same as playing together of course, but it's just another way you can safely make music, record songs etc. from the comfort and controlled environment of your own home.

 

[Juan]

I have tinnitus and minor hyperacusis (ringing against some high-end frequencies) and want(ed?) to become a professional musician and at least play in a band. I'm 16 and got tinnitus a year and a half ago from overexposure to loud noises from headphones.

I've learned to live with it but discovering music as a passion has been a bit of a curse, because I'm afraid that my condition will only worsen even with earplugs playing at live music venues.

I recently stopped using headphones entirely and only listen to music at a moderate level on my JBL speaker.

Is my dream crushed? I feel so lost right now, my peers don't have to deal with this anxiety.

My bigger concern is the minor hyperacusis, which means that my ears are incredibly sensitive

I was reading on tone deafness and stumbled upon this interesting article that also refers to the way our brain processes music:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusia#Congenital_amusia