If You Already Have Hearing Loss, Are You Susceptible to Noise Damage?

[Quentino]

So we have a theory of one ENT against another. And one website against another. They often contradict themselves so we cannot take this info for granted. What you write is perfectly logic and I'd admit that but I guess it doesn't exclude the fact that if some cells are already damaged that means we might be genetically proned do damage more than others therefore it's easier for those with hearing loss to make it worse, in this sense. After all if you put 10 people at the loud concert without protection how many will end up with hearing loss or tinnitus ? Maybe 1 ? the vulnerable one. Otherwise all the concert goers and musicians would be deaf. I mean, acoustic traumas don't happen 'only' because there is a certain amount of decibels ( unless it's 150 db maybe ? ) When we read all this OSHA guidelines it shows what's potentially dangerous and what CAN cause damage, but it doesn't say that it certainly will. I don't know how many decibles are sure to damage every ear . 150 ? But for those who have hearing loss at an early age without experiencing such a trauma ( like me ) may assume their ears are genetically more prone to damage than those of the others who have perfect hearing and so I should be more careful than others . That's how I see it for now..

you are perfectly right. but what i really think is that even if some people have different hearing resistance the great majority of people's hearing havd around the same resistance. Of course there's a lot of people with hearing weaker than normal, but what i mean is that it cannot be considered as a trend, it's uncommon.

But sure, it's difficult to give advice to someone, the best is to not put our ears at the limit. But saying that our ears are weaker than commonly admitted sould be said "by experience" , because hearing resist those 80 db sounds in general.

I think we confound hearing damaged but with good genetic hearing ( i was talking about that, it's the majority i think) with hearing genetically predisposed to decrease, and you're talking about this if i understand. For me it's two different cases!

In facts you're right, we should not say definitive answers, because everyone is different, but we shouldn't be horrified by possibly exagerated thoughts about our hearing.

But maybe sounds you don't hear CAN still damage your ears?

a 120 db sound will be heard differently by a deaf person , he will miss sounds but the energy to hurt his remaining cells will stay the same.

And if Telis has hearing loss why do noises cause him pain?

It's hyperacusis : the brain consider the sounds heard as hurting. You can have it even with hearing loss because it's more a brain issue.

 

[Nucleo]

I'd have thought the hearing loss would have meant you were less susceptible because you couldn't be damaged by sounds you couldn't hear. But maybe sounds you don't hear CAN still damage your ears? And if Telis has hearing loss why do noises cause him pain? Maybe the pain is coming from the noises that he doesn't hear but they are still having some other affect on his ears?

Apparently, sounds you can't hear have an effect on cochlear function :

http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2014/09/sounds-you-cant-hear-can-still-hurt-your-ears

As for noise-induced pain, no one really knows how/why it happens. It was long thought that the inner ear of mammals did not have nociceptors but they have been recently found in mice. It's very possible that hearing damage alters the function of those receptors.

 

[Gosia]

Once more contradictory info

 

[Keiv]

is it because you are borned with 20000 hair cells, and with hearing loss you just lose a number of hair cells, but the remaining hair cell are healthy therefore they take the same amount of intensity 85 decibel for 8 hours to damage them as if compared to a person with normal hearing...

having a hearing loss doesnt mean susceptible to noise at a lower intensity because the remaining hearing you have got those hair cells you got remaining are still healthy it's just they are not as many hair cells as there are in the case of normal hearing but the hair cells structure are still intact.

 

[Gosia]

There is one more thing that bothers me..how does it work with the sound and its spreading in the air ? As I'm regualaly exposed to some damn loud noises both inside and outside, I wish I could finally know. Today : a coach-bus horn. Loud like hell. I don't know what to compare it to, but it sounded like 10 horns honking at the same time ( the driver was really pissed and he definitely wanted everybody else to know that ) . I was maybe 20 meters away. I covered the ears after two-three seconds ( he honked for 10 at least ) and now I read on the net that horns can be as loud as 95-115 db at 100 feet ??How is that even possible ? It was on the street so shouldn't the sound spread much more than this ? Can any sound do the harm if the source is 20 meters away ? ( except for the bomb explosion maybe ?)

 

[Nucleo]

Can any sound do the harm if the source is 20 meters away

Any sound can do harm if loud enough for a sufficient amout of time. You need to take into account that sound waves dissipate with incresing distance so 110 db at the source of the sound will be nowhere near as loud to you if you are 20 meters away.

 

[Gosia]

Any sound can do harm if loud enough for a sufficient amout of time. You need to take into account that sound waves dissipate with incresing distance so 110 db at the source of the sound will be nowhere near as loud to you if you are 20 meters away.

Sure, sure, only as I wrote I found the info that even at 100 feet already the horn can reach 115 :/ So how loud would that be at the source given that the sounds dissipate quite well in the open space ?I also read that an ambulance siren can be 125 db at 20 m ? Aren't those a bit exagerated ? All I have are some maybe lame websites. Maybe you have better sources of information..

 

[Nucleo]

Sure, sure, only as I wrote I found the info that even at 100 feet already the horn can reach 115 :/ So how loud would that be at the source given that the sounds dissipate quite well in the open space ?I also read that an ambulance siren can be 125 db at 20 m ? Aren't those a bit exagerated ? All I have are some maybe lame websites. Maybe you have better sources of information..

I can only find lame websites that look like they were made with geocities from the 90s.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/acoustic/invsqs.html

It doesn't surprise me that ambulance sirens are this loud. You need to be able to hear if it's coming from far away.

I wonder what is the prevalence of hearing loss/tinnitus is for EMTs and fire fighters since I often see them cruising by with their sirens on and windows opened.

 

[erik]

I can only find lame websites that look like they were made with geocities from the 90s.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/acoustic/invsqs.html

It doesn't surprise me that a.mbulance sirens are this loud. You need to be able to hear if it's coming from far away.

I wonder what is the prevalence of hearing loss/tinnitus is for EMTs and fire fighters since I often see them cruising by with their sirens on and windows opened.

Haha Geocities and Angelfire

 

[Gosia]

Ah, this website on the other side looks too smart for me, even if old style I get the main idea, that each time we double the distance we can divide the intensity by four. I knew that before that's why I don't get how an ambulance can be considered as loud as 124 db from as far as 20 m..Sure we have to hear them but we will even if it's at 90 at 20 m..I guess..

 

[derpytia]

After learning my lesson twice the hard way, I say that while your ears may not be more susceptible, treat them like they ARE.

 

[tinnitussufferer]

I covered the ears after two-three seconds ( he honked for 10 at least ) and now I read on the net that horns can be as loud as 95-115 db at 100 feet

you have to measure it to see an accurate level. You dont just go on the google and try to find out. You are always complaining after something has happened like when you were worried about otoxicity of paint after you had painted the whole house. Even if it was harmful you cant reverse it can you?

 

[dan]

After learning my lesson twice the hard way, I say that while your ears may not be more susceptible, treat them like they ARE.

Treat your ears like you only got one pair............oh wait, you do.

 

[awbw8]

For example it takes a normal hearing person 85 db for 8 hours as a guideline for hearing damage.

When you have a hearing loss ( mild, moderate, severe...etc.) do you use the same damage criteria that is it will take 85 db for 8 hours to damage your remaining hearing or is your ear since it has a hearing loss will now be easier to damage at a lowered decibel level, let's say when it was normal hearing it takes 85 db for 8 hours. but now with a hearing loss it might just take 80 or 75 db for 8 hours?

can anyone with hearing loss chime in, do you guys still use the same 85 db for 8 hours guide to prevent damage?

For me, the way I look at it, given what I've experienced and what doctors have told me, is that before or after hearing loss, you personally have the same resistance or lack-thereof to hearing loss/damage that you had before you acquired some hearing loss/damage the first time.

Example: I went to a loud concert, probably one of three total in my life (the other two having been classical music with my parents in high school long ago.) Didn't listen to or play loud music otherwise. I got tinnitus. While I wasn't able to check with every individual in the audience, I'm fairly certain they didn't all end up with permanent tinnitus. I'm sure many have been to multiple loud events and and more or less "sitting pretty." They may have hearing loss building up, but no T, or they may be more or less "fine" if young. I don't think you can go to something that loud and have no damage at all in any way, but I imagine it can be smaller or less noticeable or not measured on conventional tests.

For me, again from a non-medically educated opinion, it seems like this has something to do with genetics and the luck of the draw on that front. This was the guess of my doctors, but as we're seeing in this thread there is perhaps a dearth of research on the subject.

I imagine that this genetic set up is pretty much the same after you've experienced some damage, except that now you know you have this particular sensitivity. I don't tend to go by the guidelines (85 db for 8hrs), for me, that seems too loud and too long and mostly, too hard to measure - sound is not that constant. Sure, it may be 85 average, but if you look at db meter the "high" can easily go up to 90 - 97db. If I have to raise my voice even a little, I pop in the ear plugs, and generally I can hear just fine even with them in - which is usually a sign I'm doing the right thing by having them in.

 

[Keiv]

For me, the way I look at it, given what I've experienced and what doctors have told me, is that before or after hearing loss, you personally have the same resistance or lack-thereof to hearing loss/damage that you had before you acquired some hearing loss/damage the first time.

Example: I went to a loud concert, probably one of three total in my life (the other two having been classical music with my parents in high school long ago.) Didn't listen to or play loud music otherwise. I got tinnitus. While I wasn't able to check with every individual in the audience, I'm fairly certain they didn't all end up with permanent tinnitus. I'm sure many have been to multiple loud events and and more or less "sitting pretty." They may have hearing loss building up, but no T, or they may be more or less "fine" if young. I don't think you can go to something that loud and have no damage at all in any way, but I imagine it can be smaller or less noticeable or not measured on conventional tests.

For me, again from a non-medically educated opinion, it seems like this has something to do with genetics and the luck of the draw on that front. This was the guess of my doctors, but as we're seeing in this thread there is perhaps a dearth of research on the subject.

I imagine that this genetic set up is pretty much the same after you've experienced some damage, except that now you know you have this particular sensitivity. I don't tend to go by the guidelines (85 db for 8hrs), for me, that seems too loud and too long and mostly, too hard to measure - sound is not that constant. Sure, it may be 85 average, but if you look at db meter the "high" can easily go up to 90 - 97db. If I have to raise my voice even a little, I pop in the ear plugs, and generally I can hear just fine even with them in - which is usually a sign I'm doing the right thing by having them in.

Do you have a hearing loss if yes, mild, moderate or severe or perhaps the gradual sloping audiogram due to aging?

 

[Keiv]

After learning my lesson twice the hard way, I say that while your ears may not be more susceptible, treat them like they ARE.

Do you have a hearing loss in which frequency is it?

 

[awbw8]

Do you have a hearing loss if yes, mild, moderate or severe or perhaps the gradual sloping audiogram due to aging?

I do, but it is relatively mild, at least in the normally tested frequencies. Perhaps there was some pre-existing loss from age, but I'm fairly young and I could tell the difference after the loud event. Things were less crisp and harder to distinguish.

 

[derpytia]

Do you have a hearing loss in which frequency is it?

I'm not sure of the frequency but I first had high frequency hearing loss when I was 5 years old (they didn't tell me or my mother about tinnitus or ear protection or ANYTHING) and I lost more hearing over a year ago which started the tinnitus. I lost even more in May this year which gave me more tinnitus.

Which is why I say you should treat your ears as if they ARE more susceptible.

 

[Quentino]

After learning my lesson twice the hard way, I say that while your ears may not be more susceptible, treat them like they ARE.

yes, it's not because our ears can resist 80 db sounds that you have to endure this.

I personnaly protect my ears quite a lot when there can be lots of noise like in streets. The important thing is to do this without fear or stress, i put earplug so i'm sure i'm safe like that, and it's quite relaxing.

Permit our ears to rest is good in any way.