Injury at C2-C3 Causing Distressing Tinnitus and Neck Pain?

[brummygirl]

Hi all

Some of you may remember me. My son developed severe and distressing tinnitus and neck pain following lifting a kettlebell incorrectly.

We have followed all sorts of leads, seen all sorts of people and had all sorts of tests in the nearly three years since. No MRI or x-Ray showed any relevant damage.

It has taken us months to get to see a specialist who would refer us for one, but at last we had a dynamic cervical upright MRI this week. And I think they found it. Damage at C2-C3.

So hopefully we can now go forward from here. I'm trying not to hope too much, just data gathering atm to see where we go next. The lovely @Greg Sacramento advised me last year to get more images and I'm so glad we followed his invaluable advice.

I guess I'm posting to say that we're another example of normal imaging not showing anything up. Whereas specialised imaging shows the problem from multiple angles.

Any words of advice or experience would be much appreciated.

I will report back once we have seen the specialist.

Best wishes to you all in your own quest for help
Shirley

 

[billie48]

Any words of advice or experience would be much appreciated.

Thanks for coming back for an update. Hopefully fixing the C2-C3 problem can alleviate or eliminate the tinnitus symptoms. If there are not enough responses from current readers of this forum, you can try to do a search on the key words of C2 and C3 and or spinal cord injury and you should see many prior discussions on this, such as below link using 'C2' as key words. Good luck. God bless.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/search/2879818/?q=C2&o=relevance

 

[JohnAdams]

aw that puppy though.

 

[Watasha]

@brummygirl Best of luck! Very interested in how it turns out. Hope it works out well!

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@brummygirl From PM discussion, do send the scans to note facet joint fluid extending post lateral to Joe's left splenius cervices / capitas inferior. This group of muscles would be pulling the head from vertebrae (whiplash), but it's needed to see thorax indications. The C7 besides C2-3 also needs to viewed. Also need to see the triangle formed by the sternocleidomastoid.

Possible treatment - but really need to see scans first for proper successful treatment.

https://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/pain/maxillofacial/splenius-capitis-muscle-syndrome

@Bam I think that you could benefit from getting a standup MRI.

https://thewellnessdigest.com/splenius-capitis-muscle-pain-top-head/

 

[brummygirl]

We saw the specialist yesterday. He was excellent.

Over the years of searching for a way to get rid of this tinnitus, I spent many months trying to find someone to give a pain block so that we could get more effective and intensive physio. I didn't manage to do this. People backed out or weren't interested in our case, citing it as too complex.

But now that we know where the injury is, that is exactly what is planned to happen. A specialist physio will work on the muscle identified as damaged and, if all goes to plan, we can better do the exercises needed because pain will be less. Hopefully the muscle will recover, facet joint fluid found between C2 and C3 will go down and the body will settle.

The consultant is arranging everything, including an assessment for Ehlers Danlos syndrome, hypermobility type. This would apparently explain the tendency to neck damage while lifting weights. The possibility of a CSF leak causing the tinnitus may well be investigated too.

We'll see what happens. I'm so pleased with finding the injury (as well as finding this consultant) but I know that the path forward may not be straightforward. So I'm hoping for the best while being open to different ways forward if needed, if you know what I mean.

@Greg Sacramento thank you, as always, for sharing your wealth of knowledge and for your support of our case. It's very much appreciated.

Will post again when I have more news.
Thanks for all your good wishes
Shirley

 

[brummygirl]

Time for an update.

It has been confirmed that my son has hyper mobile EDS, which helps to explain the neck injury. But not to treat it, sadly, as there is no 'cure'.

We found a very lovely pain specialist who seems genuinely interested in our case, so now we have another person who wishes to help us.

So pain injections have been given and 'specialist' physio at the Hypermobility Clinic has happened in the 'sweet spot' of maximum injection effectiveness.

The physio is mainly working on building up the neck muscles to better protect the neck joints, where the offending injury causing the tinnitus is located.

A small very welcome improvement in pain. But no whisper of tinnitus improvement as yet.

Disappointed but we persist.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@brummygirl I much rather talk by PM as we done in the past.

I believe that your son experienced proprioception – a sensing of body's position and movements.
Your son was off balance when injury happened. Hyperextension, stretching ligaments/muscles and blunt force are the pronounced reasons for injury.
Your son was having muscle spasms of lumber spine and neck.
He had to be strong with strong bones to train and perform his skill of sport.
So how could EDS be cause? I doubt it. I believe that it's a copout that pain management often uses when there's pain.

3 of 10 people have some level of EDS, but they have weak bones, maybe inherited and lack collagen.
I sent you highly professional studies that discusses the rare events that happened to your son. I remember his name, but I won't use it.

Your son was having muscle spasms from exercise that pressed upon his c spine, thus causing artery mechanical compression during forward extension with head rotation. Your son may have arthritis due to muscular and tendinous insertion.

"It is presently considered a problem when there is mechanical compression during head rotation due to muscular and tendinous insertions, osteophytes, and arthritis around the C1-C2 level. As the vertebral arteries enter the vertebrae around C4, it can also occur at lower levels. As about 50% of c spine rotation occurs around C1, this is likely the reason for the predominance at this level. Araz Server et al (2018) reported reduced flow in the ipsilateral vertebral artery when the head was both hyperextended and rotated."

The internal jugular vein and other neck arteries may also had received compression. Besides the link below, I had send you several articles that explains this with incidents such to your son who had training exercise of his sport that caused muscle spasms. Yes, your son will have neck pain now. Treatment guidelines is the same as those who received (pulsatile artery compression tinnitus).

http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/central/cervical/cervical.html

Finally, there's no way that a stand up MRI would detect this. Ultrasounds may.

 

[brummygirl]

Hi Greg
You're wonderful. I'm popping back to DM.
Will post there.

 

[Peter Q]

"Your son was having muscle spasms from exercise that pressed upon his c spine, thus causing artery mechanical compression during forward extension with head rotation. Your son may have arthritis due to muscular and tendinous insertion."
This makes sense. I have had tinnitus for the past 10 years but it has become more noticeable since I developed cervical spondylosis.

 

[Peter Q]

Your son was having muscle spasms from exercise that pressed upon his c spine, thus causing artery mechanical compression during forward extension with head rotation. Your son may have arthritis due to muscular and tendinous insertion.

This makes sense. I have had tinnitus for the past 10 years but it has become more noticeable since I developed cervical spondylosis.