Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

[tomytl]

I hope that ear hair cell regeneration becomes a reality within the next twenty years if not sooner. I can live with the T, but the possibility of losing my hearing is absolutely unacceptable.

Hi,
HCR is a highly interesting field which gave me a lot of hope in the past 10 years.
Hope is good and I'm really happy to know that there are lot of top notch researchers
working hard on it. Even the Hearing Health Foundation with it's vision to treat hearing loss
in a foreseeable future is very encouraging
In 2005, 2 years I have been hit by first sudden hearing there has been the first finding for
regeneration in mamals by Yehoash Raphael (Michigan)
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7003-gene-therapy-is-first-deafness-cure.html#.U3-seShCma8
Now this technology will be applied the first time to human by Novartis/Gentech.
In my biggest crises, like I am now and I have been 2 more times, it gave me power
and optimism to help stand...
So at least, this is a forward looking field of research, even the headlines always suggest that
there is a cure just arround the corner which is unfortunately not the case.
In my opinion, HCR and similar preclinical therapies are a new class of medicine and
will move together forward... But the day will come... just the question when...

All the best
Tom

 

[Mark McDill]

What I was thinking as I listened to his presentation, was how this latest science is all about regenerating hair cells, of course. And as well how T is essentially caused by loss of those same hair cells, and so presumably the go hand in hand - loss of hearing/hair cells + cause of T in just about everyone, supposedly. And yet seemingly no consideration of that important component of inner ear degeneration. Like it's an afterthought.

I'm not offended at the indifference to T as it relates to damaged hair cells, just curious how it's the hearing loss alone that is so sought after to fix and cure. Does everyone who experiences inner hair cell loss/damage get T? Would love to know the answer to that.

Littlebailey
My audiologist is convinced hearing loss is the critical component (no surprise there, HE'S AN AUDIOLOGIST). However, stats show that only 80% of tinnitus sufferers present with hearing degradation. That being the case, it is appropriate to question the validity of the standard hearing test -- does it cover the entire range (of hearing)? In other words, do those 20% that suffer T, yet have normal hearing according to standard testing, actually have normal hearing (no degradation) or is their hearing loss simply not detected/reported? Who knows? Certainly not me.

There is also the factor (possibility) that inner hairs can be damaged in such a way that detection of any hearing degradation is not possible with current audiological testing, yet, still presents as T.

I agree it is frustrating they don't address T specifically; however, maybe they know that inner hair cell degradation is causal and, therefore, addressing that will also address T (we can only hope).

I'm pretty sure @attheedgeofscience will have some insight...

Mark

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Just curious, does the real hospital exist, and is it Legit?

It is legit. It exists. They deliver a high dosage of stem cells (more so than Beike which is the main provider of stem cells in China). Hope Hospital has its own stem cell lab which means they can keep costs down and increase the survivability of the stem cells they produce. By survivability I mean the following: Stem cells - after being cultured - are then frozen at -82 degrees Celsius. When the stem cells are needed for treatment, they will need to be brought back to room temperature in stages; this process requires the right equipment (and knowhow). For Beike produced stem cells, this process therefore takes place at their lab - which means that transportation of the stem cells to the hospital in question is done at room temperature. But at room temperature, stem cells perish quickly. And so by the time the stem cells have arrived at the required hospital, the stem cell count will have decreased somewhat. This is avoided at Hope Hospital. Hope Hospital also produce a higher stem cell count upfront to begin with (62,5 million stem cells per unit vs. Beike which produces 20-30 million stem cells per unit).

However, in general the Chinese stem cell business is more interested in your money than your well-being.

 

[JAKUB]

It is legit. It exists. They deliver a high dosage of stem cells (more so than Beike which is the main provider of stem cells in China). Hope Hospital has its own stem cell lab which means they can keep costs down and increase the survivability of the stem cells they produce. By survivability I mean the following: Stem cells - after being cultured - are then frozen at -82 degrees Celsius. When the stem cells are needed for treatment, they will need to be brought back to room temperature in stages; this process requires the right equipment (and knowhow). For Beike produced stem cells, this process therefore takes place at their lab - which means that transportation of the stem cells to the hospital in question is done at room temperature. But at room temperature, stem cells perish quickly. And so by the time the stem cells have arrived at the required hospital, the stem cell count will have decreased somewhat. This is avoided at Hope Hospital. Hope Hospital also produce a higher stem cell count upfront to begin with (62,5 million stem cells per unit vs. Beike which produces 20-30 million stem cells per unit).

However, in general the Chinese stem cell business is more interested in your money than your well-being.

Are there any clinics like this in Europe performing these treatments? (that are legit)

 

[raymundo2245]

This is interesting Aaron, thanks for sharing this with us !

"Hello Aaron: About inner ear hair cell regeneration, Prof. Stefan Heller in Stanford already derived hair cell from human ES successfully, his achievement has already been disclosed in Stem cell magazine. In China, Prof. Li Huawei in Fudan University is the top expert in hair cell regeneration and tinnitus as well, he keeps cooperating with Prof. Zhengyi Chen in Harvard Medical School, recently, they will disclosed some profound findings. About Tinnitus, is one of Li Huawei's most important research areas, mainly lead by Prof. Wang Tianfeng, I have CCed this email to Tianfeng, he will give you more message about the research process. We really hope our research could solve the problem for the patients.
From R.J.Chai"

R.J.Chai: Just come back to China as professor, he did 4 years research in Stanford with Prof. Rissi and Alan Cheng, all about the inner ear hair cell regeneration.

Zhengyi Chen: Prof. in Harvard who cooperated with prof. Albert Edge, inner ear hair cell regeneration. I have also contacted him for a lot of times.

Will keep all you guys updated, I plan to meet R.J.Chai and Tianfeng Wang recently.

BTW, my lidocaine therapy is not effective so far, tomorrow is the last day.

Original email:
"Aaron, 你好： 在毛细胞再生这一方面国际上stanford的Stefan Heller教授已经成功的从Human ES 分化出毛细胞，他的这部分工作已经发表在Stem Cell杂志上， 在国内复旦大学的李华伟教授是毛细胞再生和耳鸣方面研究的首屈一指的专家，华伟教授和Harvard的 Zhengyi教授一直有良好的合作，近期在毛细胞再生方面会有重大突破发表。 关于耳鸣，这是华伟教授团队的另一个主攻方向，主要由王天丰老师负责，这里我也把邮件抄送给他，请他给你介绍一下耳鸣研究方面的进展，非常希望能通过我们的研究工作解决病人患痛。 祝，马年快乐！
人杰"

 

[raymundo2245]

Thanx for the info and I hope they come ul with a remedy for everybody, God bless you!

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Are there any clinics like this in Europe performing these treatments? (that are legit)

Here's the deal. There isn't really any stem cell clinic - anywhere - that will perform a stem cell treatment for hearing loss, much less so for tinnitus. The reason is that the current stem cell therapies are not really aimed at those disorders - and remain "scientifically" unproven as to whether they work in those instances. Which is why doing a stem cell treatment such as the ones I have done is a pretty challenging accomplishment. If you show up at a stem clinic with 25000 dollars and ask them to treat you, they will in 99% of all cases refuse to help you with disorders such as hearing loss or tinnitus. So to follow me and other pioneers in our footsteps would require a good deal of "detective work" as well convincing the stem cell clinic to treat you. Especially if you are looking for a "proper treatment" hospital with so-called good lab pratices...

There are treatment clinics in Europe...

www.frischzellen.de
www.emcell.com

...but personally I would not choose to get treated at either of them. Both use - in my opinion - non-standard treatment methods for stem cell therapy. The German one uses animal fetal stem cells and the one in Ukraine uses baby fetal stem cells. The implication of the latter is that the patient is injected with stem cells from the fetus of a baby. There is only one way that could happen: because the baby did not survive...!

Stem cell classification "approximate/rough" guideline - for those who are interested:

1) Embryonic stem cells (stem cells found in the Blastocyst = fetus < 5 days old). Not used in therapy; only research. From a medical point-of-view, there are no moral issues (because they are not used for therapy in the first place).
2) Fetal stem cells (stem cells from the fetus > 5 days old). Are used in therapy in a few cases. Moral issues...?
3) Umbilical cord blood stem cells (= "waste product" from birth). Are definitely used in therapy. No moral issues.
4) Umbilical cord stem cells (= "waste product" from birth). Are definitely used in therapy. No moral issues.
5) Autologous stem cells (= stem cells from your own body are harvested and re-introduced after culture expansion). Are definitely used in therapy. No moral issues (obviously) - patient is using his/her own stem cells.

Mesenchymal stem cells from the above sources form the backbone of any stem cell treatment.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Littlebailey
My audiologist is convinced hearing loss is the critical component (no surprise there, HE'S AN AUDIOLOGIST). However, stats show that only 80% of tinnitus sufferers present with hearing degradation. That being the case, it is appropriate to question the validity of the standard hearing test -- does it cover the entire range (of hearing)? In other words, do those 20% that suffer T, yet have normal hearing according to standard testing, actually have normal hearing (no degradation) or is their hearing loss simply not detected/reported? Who knows? Certainly not me.

There is also the factor (possibility) that inner hairs can be damaged in such a way that detection of any hearing degradation is not possible with current audiological testing, yet, still presents as T.

I agree it is frustrating they don't address T specifically; however, maybe they know that inner hair cell degradation is causal and, therefore, addressing that will also address T (we can only hope).

I'm pretty sure @attheedgeofscience will have some insight...

Mark

I more or less agree with your audiologist. If he had used the term "hearing damage" instead of "hearing loss", I would agree with him 100%. The problem with hearing loss is that it is a term which is defined for audiogram intrepretations. Which is fine. But hearing loss, audiogram, and tinnitus do not go hand-in-hand. At least not directly. There's a link or a correlation, if you will - but no more than that. Which means an audiogram cannot be used for diagnostic purposes when it comes to tinnitus. All one can really say is the following: if you randomly pick 100 patients with no measurable hearing loss and then randomly pick another 100 patients with some degree of hearing loss, then you would be likely to find a higher incidence of tinnitus in the group of patients with some degree of hearing loss.

The problem I have with audiologists and ENTs when it comes to tinnitus is that they tend to assume they can make a diagnosis from an audiogram alone. They cannot. An audiogram was not invented for that purpose. The person who comes closest to linking an audiogram with tinnitus is Dr. Wilden:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...ng-loss-how-is-this-possible.4116/#post-39397

Probably the biggest flaw in the world of audiology is the definition of hearing loss. Hearing loss is usually defined as hearing which is worse than 25 db in the speech frequency range, 0 - 8 kHz. But, by the time someone experiences that degree of hearing loss, then the damage is already done (so to speak). To use an analogy: if you have more than 25 db hearing loss - at any frequency - then it is equivalent to having a hole in you tooth. By the time the enamel of the tooth has been broken, it is too late...! You want to catch the problem before it gets to that stage. Which is why hearing loss should be defined much more "aggressively" - and monitored much more aggressively. And it is also the reason why Dr. Wilden is one of the few doctors on the surface of planet Earth who actually knows what he is talking about...

 

[Mark McDill]

I more or less agree with your audiologist. If he had used the term "hearing damage" instead of "hearing loss", I would agree with him 100%. The problem with hearing loss is that it is a term which is defined for audiogram intrepretations. Which is fine. But hearing loss, audiogram, and tinnitus do not go hand-in-hand. At least not directly. There's a link or a correlation, if you will - but no more than that. Which means an audiogram cannot be used for diagnostic purposes when it comes to tinnitus. All one can really say is the following: if you randomly pick 100 patients with no measurable hearing loss and then randomly pick another 100 patients with some degree of hearing loss, then you would be likely to find a higher incidence of tinnitus in the group of patients with some degree of hearing loss.

The problem I have with audiologists and ENTs when it comes to tinnitus is that they tend to assume they can make a diagnosis from an audiogram alone. They cannot. An audiogram was not invented for that purpose. The person who comes closest to linking an audiogram with tinnitus is Dr. Wilden:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...ng-loss-how-is-this-possible.4116/#post-39397

Probably the biggest flaw in the world of audiology is the definition of hearing loss. Hearing loss is usually defined as hearing which is worse than 25 db in the speech frequency range, 0 - 8 kHz. But, by the time someone experiences that degree of hearing loss, then the damage is already done (so to speak). To use an analogy: if you have more than 25 db hearing loss - at any frequency - then it is equivalent to having a hole in you tooth. By the time the enamel of the tooth has been broken, it is too late...! You want to catch the problem before it gets to that stage. Which is why hearing loss should be defined much more "aggressively" - and monitored much more aggressively. And it is also the reason why Dr. Wilden is one of the few doctors on the surface of planet Earth who actually knows what he is talking about...

ATEOS
Wow! Eye-opening and enlightening (indeed)! Thanx so much! As an engineer this makes perfect sense to me; it goes to problem definition! Causative vs. correlative combined with precise definition is still central to the entire issue (even when talking about hearing alone, much more T).

Best regards on your research -- very awesome stuff!!

Mark

 

[tomytl]

ATA.org does also support research on link between tinnitus and hair cell loss.

Dr. Staecker will lead the upcoming clinical trial for hair cell regeneration in human.

http://www.ata.org/advocacy/successes

"Dr. Staecker will attempt to regenerate sensory hair cells inside the ear. These hair cells die after noise trauma, thus causing hearing loss and triggering tinnitus. Current data suggests that the loss of sensory cells in the inner ear lead to the abnormal brain activity associated with tinnitus. By replacing the hair cells, restoration of normal brain activity and reduction of tinnitus may occur. This study will determine if hair cell replacement mitigates tinnitus and if it restores normal brain activity to the hearing centers of the brain. This study will represent the first investigation of the effects of hair cell regeneration in the brain."

 

[JohnDoe]

ATA.org does also support research on link between tinnitus and hair cell loss.

Dr. Staecker will lead the upcoming clinical trial for hair cell regeneration in human.

http://www.ata.org/advocacy/successes

"Dr. Staecker will attempt to regenerate sensory hair cells inside the ear. These hair cells die after noise trauma, thus causing hearing loss and triggering tinnitus. Current data suggests that the loss of sensory cells in the inner ear lead to the abnormal brain activity associated with tinnitus. By replacing the hair cells, restoration of normal brain activity and reduction of tinnitus may occur. This study will determine if hair cell replacement mitigates tinnitus and if it restores normal brain activity to the hearing centers of the brain. This study will represent the first investigation of the effects of hair cell regeneration in the brain."

Good find @tomytl !

Dr Hinrich Staecker is mentioned in this article aswell: http://www.newscientist.com/article...et-gene-tweak-to-restore-natural-hearing.html

In said article they write "IN TWO months' time, a group of profoundly deaf people could be able to hear again, thanks to the world's first gene therapy trial for deafness."

Is this the same trial that Genvec / Novartis are conducting? Or is the trial Dr Staecker is involved in another one aimed at regenerating hair cells?

 

[tomytl]

Good find @tomytl !

Dr Hinrich Staecker is mentioned in this article aswell: http://www.newscientist.com/article...et-gene-tweak-to-restore-natural-hearing.html

In said article they write "IN TWO months' time, a group of profoundly deaf people could be able to hear again, thanks to the world's first gene therapy trial for deafness."

Is this the same trial that Genvec / Novartis are conducting? Or is the trial Dr Staecker is involved in another one aimed at regenerating hair cells?

Hi,

yes it's the same trial. This "technology" was first discovered in 2005 by University of Michigan.
It's proof of concept and probably there is no phase 3 planed.. instead they might optimize
the therapy or they want gather the data.
If it works, it would be the first proof, that regeneration is possible. (all speculation)

Greets Tom

 

[john2012]

What I was thinking as I listened to his presentation, was how this latest science is all about regenerating hair cells, of course. And as well how T is essentially caused by loss of those same hair cells, and so presumably the go hand in hand - loss of hearing/hair cells + cause of T in just about everyone, supposedly. And yet seemingly no consideration of that important component of inner ear degeneration. Like it's an afterthought.

I'm not offended at the indifference to T as it relates to damaged hair cells, just curious how it's the hearing loss alone that is so sought after to fix and cure. Does everyone who experiences inner hair cell loss/damage get T? Would love to know the answer to that.

I wish everyone could read these words over and over.
Let me tell you something.
I thought that hair cell loss caused my initial manageable tinnitus.
But it was only when food poisoning sent me into a delirious trance for 3 days, resulting in catastrophic tinnitus, that i realized there was more to it.

Now before you say, ah yes, maybe the poisoning damaged my cells, let me tell you that my new terrible tinnitus was basically a magnified version of the earlier. Tiny sharp sounds i could only previously hear in a basement were now upfront and centre stage in 4d-surround sound.

No sound shocks. No further 'damage'. I never even had meds during my food poisoning, just sweated it out.
It was just my brain freaking out looking for a 'threat' and zoning in on my existing unclassified tinnitus.

My father has appalling hair cell loss from construction work but no tinnitus, just like most of his friends.

Hair cell regen might restore hearing but tinnitus may be a central thing more easily correctable I hope.
So don't worry if its years away, you might not even need it.

And this whole hearing loss thing is a bit misty. Everybody has hearing loss over time, but audiograms only go up to 8khz. So don't feel jealous of people with 'perfect hearing', less than half of their full hearing range has been measured. There's the classic 4khz notch but very many have that without tinnitus. And so on. Tinnitus often tracks the edge of hearing, but again not for everyone. there seem to be so many variables, so causes. Its as if no other condition has so many potential triggers. So maybe there has to be a common factor. Maybe it's the anxious brain that unveils and drives tinnitus. There's little dispute anxiety can make it worse. So why couldn't that mechanism have unveiled it in the first place.

Hopefully somebody will get to the bottom of this rabbit hole soon. I'm a praying man.

 

[tomytl]

I wish everyone could read these words over and over.
Let me tell you something.
I thought that hair cell loss caused my initial manageable tinnitus.
But it was food poisoning that sent me into a delrious trance for 3 days resulted in catastrophic tinnitus.

No sound shocks. No further 'damage'. I never even had meds during my food poisoning, just sweated it out.
It was just my brain freaking out looking for a 'threat' and zoning in on my existing unclassified tinnitus.

My father has appalling hair cell loss from construction work but no tinnitus, just like most of his friends.

Hair cell regen might restore hearing but tinnitus may be a central thing more easily correctable I hope.
So don't worry if its years away, you might not even need it.

And this whole hearing loss thing is a bit misty. Everybody has hearing loss over time, but audiograms only go up to 8khz. So don't feel jealous of people with 'perfect hearing', less than half of their full hearing range has been measured. There's the classic 4khz notch but very many have that without tinnitus. And so on. Tinnitus often tracks the edge of hearing, but again not for everyone. there seem to be so many variables, so causes. Its as if no other condition has so many potential triggers. So maybe there has to be a common factor. Maybe it's the anxious brain that unveils and drives tinnitus. There's little dispute anxiety can make it worse. So why couldn't that mechanism have unveiled it in the first place.

Hopefully somebody will get to the bottom of this rabbit hole soon. I'm a praying man.

The more research they do, the more findings will appear also for understanding tinnitus.
You could even test your hearing up to 22khz without any findings on hearing loss, but what happens
if your hair cell at 12.140 khz is dead? or the one at 12.142khz?
So you see, audiogram is just a peripheral testing of hearing.
My opinion is, that T is likely caused by some damage in the hearing organs, if it's the hair cell or the
neuronal connections or the hearing nerve, they still don't know.
So I guess, if they really could regrow and reconnect the hearing sensors, T wouldn't have
it's place to mess arround...

The more they find out about the molecular structure of the inner ear, the more will they
explore causes of tinnitus. That's why hair cell regeneration is very important.

 

[john2012]

I must admit the more I read the less i know. But for sure, these are all parts of the puzzle.
Will they ever cure tinnitus? of course they will. And HCR will be massive Tomytl, agreed.
Electrical stimulation to the ear yielded amazing results in italy a while back,
and cochlear implants have eliminated tinnitus, so peripheral treatments look hot.
I like your post. I don't want to be a playground for tinnitus anymore either.

 

[bill 112]

I must admit the more I read the less i know. But for sure, these are all parts of the puzzle.
Will they ever cure tinnitus? of course they will. And HCR will be massive Tomytl, agreed.
Electrical stimulation to the ear yielded amazing results in italy a while back,
and cochlear implants have eliminated tinnitus, so peripheral treatments look hot.
I like your post. I don't want to be a playground for tinnitus anymore either.

Its great though what they are doing,you have the States working on haircell regeneration and I believe the U.K is working on auditory nerve regeneration and repair.Its two great countries working on both sides of the problem.

 

[Littlebailey]

Littlebailey
My audiologist is convinced hearing loss is the critical component (no surprise there, HE'S AN AUDIOLOGIST). However, stats show that only 80% of tinnitus sufferers present with hearing degradation. That being the case, it is appropriate to question the validity of the standard hearing test -- does it cover the entire range (of hearing)? In other words, do those 20% that suffer T, yet have normal hearing according to standard testing, actually have normal hearing (no degradation) or is their hearing loss simply not detected/reported? Who knows? Certainly not me.

There is also the factor (possibility) that inner hairs can be damaged in such a way that detection of any hearing degradation is not possible with current audiological testing, yet, still presents as T.

I agree it is frustrating they don't address T specifically; however, maybe they know that inner hair cell degradation is causal and, therefore, addressing that will also address T (we can only hope).

I'm pretty sure @attheedgeofscience will have some insight...

Mark

What I'm most curious is about people who have hearing loss, and damaged hair cells, and yet who don't get T. If so, how can that be? If they ever figure they out, they'll be a long way closer to understanding the whole thing.

 

[Koz]

It is legit. It exists. They deliver a high dosage of stem cells (more so than Beike which is the main provider of stem cells in China). Hope Hospital has its own stem cell lab which means they can keep costs down and increase the survivability of the stem cells they produce. By survivability I mean the following: Stem cells - after being cultured - are then frozen at -82 degrees Celsius. When the stem cells are needed for treatment, they will need to be brought back to room temperature in stages; this process requires the right equipment (and knowhow). For Beike produced stem cells, this process therefore takes place at their lab - which means that transportation of the stem cells to the hospital in question is done at room temperature. But at room temperature, stem cells perish quickly. And so by the time the stem cells have arrived at the required hospital, the stem cell count will have decreased somewhat. This is avoided at Hope Hospital. Hope Hospital also produce a higher stem cell count upfront to begin with (62,5 million stem cells per unit vs. Beike which produces 20-30 million stem cells per unit).

However, in general the Chinese stem cell business is more interested in your money than your well-being.

I am currently undertaking treatment here at Hope Hospital. They explained to me a full recovery is unlikely but an improvement is possible. I have damaged the nerves in my left ear and have mild/moderate hearing loss.

From the financial point of things, thankfully I can afford it. The stem cells are delivered via IV injection + undergoing daily acupuncture to improve blood flow to the ear and am on Chinese medicine to also improve bloodflow.

Furthermore I have been initially in touch with Randy Robinson, the payments that have been made have all been received by the hospital otherwise I would not be here. I can provide further proof if required. (For the record, both the hospital and Randy Robinson have provided the same bank)

Remember if I wasn't willing to take a risk I would also not be here.

One more thing, was reading your other post regarding the tooth analogy. So you think hearing loss thats beyond 30db is irreversible with stem cells?

However, in general the Chinese stem cell business is more interested in your money than your well-being.

Based on my experience so far, and I can't stress ''so far'' highly enough here.. I cant agree with you there. Every step has been made easy by them for me so far, there have been many who have come to this country for stem cell treatment and have seen improvements. Cases are documented on YouTube.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I am currently undertaking treatment here at Hope Hospital. They explained to me a full recovery is unlikely but an improvement is possible. I have damaged the nerves in my left ear and have mild/moderate hearing loss.

From the financial point of things, thankfully I can afford it. The stem cells are delivered via IV injection + undergoing daily acupuncture to improve blood flow to the ear and am on Chinese medicine to also improve bloodflow.

Furthermore I have been initially in touch with Randy Robinson, the payments that have been made have all been received by the hospital otherwise I would not be here. I can provide further proof if required. (For the record, both the hospital and Randy Robinson have provided the same bank)

Remember if I wasn't willing to take a risk I would also not be here.

One more thing, was reading your other post regarding the tooth analogy. So you think hearing loss thats beyond 30db is irreversible with stem cells?

I don't normally reveal where I have been treated nor the sources of my information, but since you "caught" me, I have no choice but to say that I was treated at Hope Hospital too. I went there around x'mas time. This was my second stem cell treatment. I was treated in Zhuhai.

I stand by my accusations against Randy Robinson. I have proof in writing from the representative of the Hospital, Simon Lee - I can present these to Markku, at any time... I also have two separate witness accounts from when I was in China. Furthermore, if you look up the stem cell count figures on Randy Robinson's scam homepage, then you will see that the stem cell volumes he offers cannot be met by the hospital and are unrealistic (= 8 x 150 million = 1,2 billion stem cells); no hospital - anywhere in the world - treats patients with such high volumes. [Admittedly, the volumes on his homepage now state 4 - 6 units of 150 million stem cells, but that was not the case around x'mas time (which I can prove), and even with the adjusted volumes, the volume count is wrong because Hope Hospital uses 125 million stem cells per injection; not 150...].

Lastly, the letter of invitation that Randy Robinson issues is fake: it is easy to see that is so, because the Hospital signature/stamp is "behind" the writing on the sheet of paper. In other words, he uses a standard template with a prewritten stamp on it. This is illegal.

I also have other information about Randy Robinson which I will not present publicly. But I can present it to Markku, if necessary.

I hope you have great success with your treatment - and thank you for your account, as well.

 

[Koz]

I don't normally reveal where I have been treated nor the sources of my information, but since you "caught" me, I have no choice but to say that I was treated at Hope Hospital too. I went there around x'mas time. This was my second stem cell treatment. I was treated in Zhuhai.

I stand by my accusations against Randy Robinson. I have proof in writing from the representative of the Hospital, Simon Lee - I can present these to Markku, at any time... I also have two separate witness accounts from when I was in China. Furthermore, if you look up the stem cell count figures on Randy Robinson's scam homepage, then you will see that the stem cell volumes he offers cannot be met by the hospital and are unrealistic (= 8 x 150 million = 1,2 billion stem cells); no hospital - anywhere in the world - treats patients with such high volumes. [Admittedly, the volumes on his homepage now state 4 - 6 units of 150 million stem cells, but that was not the case around x'mas time (which I can prove), and even with the adjusted volumes, the volume count is wrong because Hope Hospital uses 125 million stem cells per injection; not 150...].

Lastly, the letter of invitation that Randy Robinson issues is fake: it is easy to see that is so, because the Hospital signature/stamp is "behind" the writing on the sheet of paper. In other words, he uses a standard template with a prewritten stamp on it. This is illegal.

I also have other information about Randy Robinson which I will not present publicly. But I can present it to Markku, if necessary.

I hope you have great success with your treatment - and thank you for your account, as well.

Thank you kindly for your quick response. Well I suppose if you are right then thankfully the funds I transferred were to the account that someone working at the hospital gave me, this is a person I am seeing everyday and is my translator. I believe you, you seem very knowledgeable. You have constantly gone out of your way to provide proof of your findings.

I hope to see some improvements. They have stressed to me that it is unlikely a full recovery will reach but improvements are possible and this treatment works best for someone who comes to them as soon as the problem would have started.

If you may be kind enough to answer one thing for me, your analogy regarding hearing loss more than 25db. You think thats unlikely to be treatable with stem cells?

I wish you all the best and I thank you for your contributions, please do stick around on these fourms. You are one of the reasons I decided to pursue stem cell treatment.

 

[tomytl]

Another company with a hearing loss
product in their pipeline. Special about this company, they have already a gene therapy based treatment on the market.

http://www.uniqure.com/pipeline/clinical-pipeline/

I have to find out more.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Thank you kindly for your quick response. Well I suppose if you are right then thankfully the funds I transferred were to the account that someone working at the hospital gave me, this is a person I am seeing everyday and is my translator. I believe you, you seem very knowledgeable. You have constantly gone out of your way to provide proof of your findings.

I hope to see some improvements. They have stressed to me that it is unlikely a full recovery will reach but improvements are possible and this treatment works best for someone who comes to them as soon as the problem would have started.

If you may be kind enough to answer one thing for me, your analogy regarding hearing loss more than 25db. You think thats unlikely to be treatable with stem cells?

I wish you all the best and I thank you for your contributions, please do stick around on these fourms. You are one of the reasons I decided to pursue stem cell treatment.

I have now provided evidence to @Markku which support my accusations against Randy Robinson. I have asked Markku to confirm the accuracy of my accusations in this thread (since my accusations are being "challenged").

To answer your question about hearing loss and whether stem cells will work - I need to refer you to this earlier post of my mine:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...maybe-we-can-know-more.3131/page-7#post-48004

Basically, you will need to do your own research. There is no real official research on the matter. What I can say is the following: there are indications that the current adult stem cells used in therapy are most effective against auto-immune hearing loss; least effective against congenital hearing loss. There is also some evidence that stem cells work best against hearing loss which is more severe than 30 db. For hearing loss which is less severe than 30 db, LLLT seems to be work best.

The above is obviously unproven, scientifically (because researchers/doctors have not done any investigations so far; only a specific clinical trial on a small sample of babies has been carried out so far in the US using umbilical cord blood stem cells). The knowledge I have presented above - as well as in many of my posts - is knowledge which I have collected myself by doing lots of online research, tracking down stem cell patients (the few that there are), speaking directly with stem cell clinics, and resource organizations. The knowledge is therefore not scientifically valid, but it is nonetheless important and very interesting (if you ask me). The reason it is "interesting" is because I am presenting knowledge which no other doctor would be able to tell you about. Because they simply don't have the kind of knowledge I have. That's why...!

Lastly, please take note that reversing hearing loss may or may not result in an improvement in your tinnitus. If you want to track your hearing improvement, you need to get reliable hearing tests done before/after treatment. By reliable, I mean the following: get hearing tests done at the same clinic before/after, and get the audiology tests done in a proper sound-proofed room, with/without pulsed frequency for 0 - 16 kHz.

 

[Markku]

@attheedgeofscience asked me to check out his proof regarding Randy Robinson being a scam artist.

The evidence presented in my personal opinion does support @attheedgeofscience's claim.

At the very least caution should be exercised.

 

[Koz]

I have now provided evidence to @Markku which support my accusations against Randy Robinson. I have asked Markku to confirm the accuracy of my accusations in this thread (since my accusations are being "challenged").

To answer your question about hearing loss and whether stem cells will work - I need to refer you to this earlier post of my mine:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/inner-ear-hair-cell-regeneration-—-maybe-we-can-know-more.3131/page-7#post-48004

Basically, you will need to do your own research. There is no real official research on the matter. What I can say is the following: there are indications that the current adult stem cells used in therapy are most effective against auto-immune hearing loss; least effective against congenital hearing loss. There is also some evidence that stem cells work best against hearing loss which is more severe than 30 db. For hearing loss which is less severe than 30 db, LLLT seems to be work best.

The above is obviously unproven, scientifically (because researchers/doctors have not done any investigations so far; only a specific clinical trial on a small sample of babies has been carried out so far in the US using umbilical cord blood stem cells). The knowledge I have presented above - as well as in many of my posts - is knowledge which I have collected myself by doing lots of online research, tracking down stem cell patients (the few that there are), speaking directly with stem cell clinics, and resource organizations. The knowledge is therefore not scientifically valid, but it is nonetheless important and very interesting (if you ask me). The reason it is "interesting" is because I am presenting knowledge which no other doctor would be able to tell you about. Because they simply don't have the kind of knowledge I have. That's why...!

Lastly, please take note that reversing hearing loss may or may not result in an improvement in your tinnitus. If you want to track your hearing improvement, you need to get reliable hearing tests done before/after treatment. By reliable, I mean the following: get hearing tests done at the same clinic before/after, and get the audiology tests done in a proper sound-proofed room, with/without pulsed frequency for 0 - 16 kHz.

Rest assured, please, I believe you. No evidence required to convince me.

Thankfully I have had no adverse reaction to the stem cells here at Hope. None I can notice as of yet.

I will await a few months from now and see if there are any improvements in my hearing. I have habituated to my tinnitus ages ago, if I had a choice between regaining the lost hearing or eliminating tinnitus, I'd easily pick regaining the lost hearing. Thanks once more for your input.

 

[tomytl]

Rest assured, please, I believe you. No evidence required to convince me.

Thankfully I have had no adverse reaction to the stem cells here at Hope. None I can notice as of yet.

I will await a few months from now and see if there are any improvements in my hearing. I have habituated to my tinnitus ages ago, if I had a choice between regaining the lost hearing or eliminating tinnitus, I'd easily pick regaining the lost hearing. Thanks once more for your input.

Hi Koz,
good luck for your current treatment!
I hope you get most possible relief.
May I ask how much hearing loss do you experience? Do you wear hearing aids?

Greets Tom

 

[Koz]

Hi Koz,
good luck for your current treatment!
I hope you get most possible relief.
May I ask how much hearing loss do you experience? Do you wear hearing aids?

Greets Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks a lot.

My hearing loss is only in my left ear, its nerve damage. I have been giving Stem cells a thought for a while so thought I'd finally come and try and see for myself if they work out for me. I can afford it.I have lost about 35db.

I tried hearing aids. Not for me, they just made things louder but not clearer. Also, the tinnitus masking noise theyve put in it barely masked it and triggered my vertigo a lot.

 

[tomytl]

Hi Tom,

Thanks a lot.

My hearing loss is only in my left ear, its nerve damage. I have been giving Stem cells a thought for a while so thought I'd finally come and try and see for myself if they work out for me. I can afford it.I have lost about 35d

I tried hearing aids. Not for me, they just made things louder but not clearer. Also, the tinnitus masking noise theyve put in it barely masked it and triggered my vertigo a lot.

Hi Koz,
thank you for the info.
When would be a first enhancement expected? Will you stay there for monitoring will you leave the clinic and the effect might take place monthes later?

 

[Koz]

Hi Koz,
thank you for the info.
When would be a first enhancement expected? Will you stay there for monitoring will you leave the clinic and the effect might take place monthes later?

It varies from person to person. Normally conditions like ataxia is where you can see notable improvement in a short amount of time after stem cell transplant. Can range anywhere from one and a half month to six months.

The only thing I can do is stay fit and healthy and keep exercising to promote blood-flow (which carries these stem cells) to the ear. Will also continue acupuncture when i'm back from China.

 

[SteveToHeal]

Randy Robinson has a long history with Chinese stem cell companies (originally he worked for Beike Biotechnologies). Since then he joined Hope Hospital in Zhuhai as an agent. But the hospital later dismissed him as he did too much markup on the stem cell treatment costs and also promised future patients benefits/features which could not be met (by the hospital). According to employees of Hope Hospital, he also got into legal trouble with the Police as he was involved in a brawl with a local Chinese citizen at a petrol station. Since then, he has set himself up in the United States claiming to be working for Hope Hospital - but he does not. He has made a copy of the Hospital's original website and stolen some of the photos:

www.hopehospitalchina.com (original/authentic webiste of Hope Hospital)
http://hopestemcell.com/ (Randy Robinson's scam website)

Randy Robinson now works as a con artist. What he does is quite simple: he pretends to be working for Hope Hospital - and asks future patients to pay a deposit of USD 2000,- so that stem cells can be cultured for the specific treatment. With this deposit, he explains that the order can be cancelled up until two weeks before treatment start (or whatever). Since he has indepth knowledge of the stem cell business (and also has worked for the hospital itself), potential candiates for treatment will not immediately suspect anything is wrong. He will also issue a fake letter of invitation for the Chinese Embassies around world (required in order to obtain VISA for the medical treatment in China). Additionally he will request all the usual things that any stem cell treatment centre will request eg. copy of passport, copy of flight itinerary, and so on...

Besides that, he is also the proud father of a little daughter and has worked as a paramedic; I guess not all health workers can be trusted equally. And I am sure his daughter will be proud of him when she grows older...

Thanks ATEOS.
Always great to receive your super informed posts and keep us from scams way! We should have a SCAM alert page on the new website that @Markku and @Steve are developing, to prevent anymore T newbies and oldies getting duped by the likes of Randy Robinson. A report on each confirmed scam, with a lovely "family" photo of each!
Indeed, one day his daughter will be proud!
Cheers
Steve

 

[john2012]

What I'm most curious is about people who have hearing loss, and damaged hair cells, and yet who don't get T. If so, how can that be? If they ever figure they out, they'll be a long way closer to understanding the whole thing.

Indicators for the relationship between hearing loss and tinnitus are out there.
A lot of older folks with hearing loss also have tinnitus. But that's more generalization than accurate science, as maybe ten times as many don't have tinnitus. Anybody got the real stats?

Hearing aids do help some by we are told re-supplying missing frequencies.
So in some cases, maybe tinnitus is about the brain compensating for lost input, but does this apply to all of us? I don't know.

As Littlebailey says, puzzling out the exceptions is the key to the puzzle.

My father's hearing is terribly damaged, I mean bad, and not a single tinnitus tone.
Explain that instead of brushing it under the carpet and your cure is closer.


And what about me. My next level tinnitus was triggered I'm sure by CNS shock.
Part of me feels that CNS stress/shock via noise or pharma is a real key, more so than
'damage'. I feel my brain in crisis sought out a damaged area, but that's just a hunch.


So will restoring hearing via stem cells eliminate tinnitus? It should do for a lot of people.
Correcting weak or faulty signalling up and down the auditory pathways sounds about right.
The argument for peripheral intervention is strong.
Look at Dr.Robert.A.Levine's fusiform cells theory (Harvard guy)



Also look at cochlear implants eliminating tinnitus.

And check this out:
Transtympanic Electrical Stimulation for Immediate and Long-Term Tinnitus Suppression
http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/detalhe_artigo.asp?id=44

And what on earth is residual inhibition all about.
There are folks who can have a shower and not hear their tinnitus for 4 hours. Explain.


So maybe there is more than one "source". More than one fix. More than one hope.

For example, Autifony will likely also cure. Not by compensating for lost auditory input,
but by targetting over-active neurons.

Same for early-days tDCS. And so on.

And look at HIFU. That is a TCD thing and may deal with different types of tinnitus, I don't know.

It would be nice to have a single unity theory which embraces and explains how
diverse treatments are linked. There is a mountain of clues on pubmed,etc. Maybe
that's what this place is for. Many great crimes have been solved by amateur sleuths.
A lot of research is tunnel-visioned on specific branches of science.
Many researchers are not necessarily looking for 'big picture' links.

So Littlebailey's question needs to be answered.
Some with hearing damage get tinnitus, others don't.
And some with 'noise-induced' tinnitus later experience total perceptual habituation
without stem cell therapy or autifony or whatever.

Of the apparent void between those who do and don't get tinnitus, how can that be?

Whatever the answer, we should be grateful that stem cell therapy, though vital,
is not the only fruit. In terms of tinnitus, hope is coming from everywhere.

We could certainly do without the likes of Randy Robinson bringing the reputation
of this noble science into disrepute. Someone shut him down please.