Is LLLT for Tinnitus by Dr. Wilden a Scam?

[Cityjohn]

Funny thing, his theory I mean, that neuronal hair cells in the inner ear have the ability to regenerate. Scientific consensus pretty much agrees upon the fact that no mammal can do that.

Funny you should mention this. Krokodiles can indeed regenerate their central nervous system and hearing. As far as we know this is because they do not have syntaphilin in their cells which allows their mitochondria to mobilize and provide ATP to allow for cell repair.
This is exactly the same mechanism that LT uses to affect healing in human cells, the abundance of light accelerates the electron respiration to overproduce ATP which changes the energy budget of cells and stimulates them to regrow.

Dr. Wilden may just have come across something that he thought was bullshit and started to milk it for money, and now it turns out he was right. But either way LT is still our best bet, until we properly disprove it.

Consensus is exactly the same as any other assumption. Only now when you fuck up you can point to other scientists and feel good about having chosen a slightly more prestigious group of apes to guide your assumptions.

 

[Kane Moffat]

@Bobby B , do you think this can help with hidden hearing loss (where the afferent and efferent nerves are disconnected from the hair cell)?

 

[Bobby B]

Maybe - worth a try it's fairly safe and low cost.
I would not call it a tinnitus cure because it won't fix broken / dead hair cells if
those are the ones behind tinnitus , but for H and better sound quality and anything related to nerves it may help to get some improvements

 

[GregCA]

Maybe - worth a try it's fairly safe and low cost.

That's the big question. Is it really safe, or is there a chance of making it worse in the delicate organ that the ear is. I'm not sure anyone really knows.

 

[Bobby B]

Just try the same power / device we used and it will be fine

By the time light reaches inside he cochlea it's much weaker anyway

 

[Kane Moffat]

Does the lucky laser gave enough power to reach the auditory nerve?

 

[Bobby B]

Yes the 808nm gives 0.9w max that's a lot for laser half this works fine

 

[ehrfried]

http://www.dr-wilden.de/info/22.html

Here is a trial.

 

[MarioT]

Funny you should mention this. Krokodiles can indeed regenerate their central nervous system and hearing. As far as we know this is because they do not have syntaphilin in their cells which allows their mitochondria to mobilize and provide ATP to allow for cell repair.
This is exactly the same mechanism that LT uses to affect healing in human cells, the abundance of light accelerates the electron respiration to overproduce ATP which changes the energy budget of cells and stimulates them to regrow.

Crocodiles are not mammals

Not that this has anything to do with the discussion though. Feel free to waste all your money and time on LLT and Wilden.

People who fail to see, after reading the initial thread post, that this is just another meaningless therapy and that Wilden's methods are typical for a con-artist, unfortunately cannot be convinced. Kind of like debating with religious people about faith.

Best regards.

 

[Cityjohn]

Crocodiles are not mammals

Not that this has anything to do with the discussion though. Feel free to waste all your money and time on LLT and Wilden.

People who fail to see, after reading the initial thread post, that this is just another meaningless therapy and that Wilden's methods are typical for a con-artist, unfortunately cannot be convinced. Kind of like debating with religious people about faith.

Best regards.

You seem to have misread my reaction to your post, evidenced by a slightly comical and shaming attempt at correction without any mention of the science behind the info provided. You've missed that I had communicated I indeed am aware crocodiles are not mammals. You see because mammals do have syntaphillin expression in their cells. You should be able to decipher the point of my respons now.

When someone is running a scam somewhere it does not suggest in any way, shape, or form that decades of research, which that person probably hasn't even read, is somehow magically invalidated.
Now, if you want to debate further may I suggest that you kindly refrain from using personal beliefs and hunches, which until now do not even enter the ball park of the science, in the attempt of making a point. Or as you so put it yourself, debating "like religious people about faith".

Furthermore, you mentioned "Funny thing, his theory I mean, that neuronal hair cells in the inner ear have the ability to regenerate. Scientific consensus pretty much agrees upon the fact that no mammal can do that" when it is blatantly untrue.
I think you'll find you meant, "Scientific consensus pretty much agrees upon the fact that no mammal can naturally do that without aid". Because I'm sure you're extensively familiar with all meticulous stem cell clinicals and electron microscope study's that clearly show mammals can in fact regenerate their hair cells. If you're going to live life by consesus it really helps to try and understand what the consesus is about.

 

[MrBonk]

I was considering one of the Konfec lasers since they seemed to have a timer built in and can sit on the ears without having to hold them.

Has anyone ever really tried them?

I'm pretty poor and that's about all I could afford if I wanted one.

 

[Tim Hogan]

I've Read that lllt is worthless alone, but combined with rTMS that is was is having results at the moment.

 

[linearb]

I've Read that lllt is worthless alone, but combined with rTMS that is was is having results at the moment.

citation?

 

[briano]

Hi all,
I seem to be getting some positive results from Dr. Wilden's laser. I've been using it since 10/3/16. Here's my story: I have hearing loss in my left ear and a slight tinnitus hiss caused by noise exposure. This all happened in Sept. of 2013. I've attached my recent audiogram for you to review. This was taken before I started the home treatment. I plan to get another one in a few months. If anyone is interested or has any questions, please let me know. I feel like good things are happening...but for me, the real proof will be in the audiograms.

 

[Reinier]

@briano
I hoop your improvement continues.
The audiogram of my right ear looks roughly the same as your left ear.
Unfortunately LLLT is not doing anything for me. I was hoping to elevate hyperacusis discomfort.
I am interested in your soon to make audiogram.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@briano
I hoop your improvement continues.
The audiogram of my right ear looks roughly the same as your left ear.
Unfortunately LLLT is not doing anything for me. I was hoping to elevate hyperacusis discomfort.
I am interested in your soon to make audiogram.

how long have you done it? what device are you using? what - if any - results have you had (even if just temporary) ?

 

[Reinier]

I started 5 months ago.
20 Minutes a day. Alternating between 808nm and 650 nm.
I am using the lucky Laser.
The only benefit is the break in a day. The 20 minutes are relaxing.
But that was not what I was hoping for (-;
Also no temporary results, either positive or negative.
As time passes and something improves it is possible because of brain plasticity and not because of LLLT.
But I am happy to continue the treatment for many months. It is not a chore.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

As time passes and something improves it is possible because of brain plasticity and not because of LLLT.
But I am happy to continue the treatment for many months. It is not a chore.

not sure what you mean here. isn't nueroplasticity what enables habituation?

 

[Reinier]

isn't nueroplasticity what enables habituation?

That is what I understand.
Apparently can be a very "powerful".
Even rewiring in our brain can happen.
Perhaps the only relief possible at the moment for tinnitus sufferers.

 

[dfw]

All these ifs & maybe's.

Well I will tell you the experience I had with Dr Sarno of NYC. He theorized TMS and was basically labeled a quack for years & years. Then he was joined by more & more doctors who jumped in a leap of faith. Google Dr Sarno and you will find several other Doctors who I personally know to be of good character and are there to help people.
Dr Hanscomb of Seattle believes your neuropathways can be rewired. By your own self being.

The point of my 2 cents here is I have had TMS (mind body) issues for 2.5 years now and I can tell you for a fact they are real. And....I could not have overcome them without the help of these individuals others call quacks!!!
I have overcome numerous challenges in the pain field, although none as tough as what I am experiencing now. Constant headaches, ringing, fullness, like I was hit in the face.
It seems that several on here say NO way, but why & how can you judge the success of another being. A lot of it is mind body, no matter the issue. This has been proven over & over again, even in terminal cancer patients that have lived.

I know for a FACT that certain things helped me overcome many challenges and I'm sure there will be one thing in tinnitus that will allow me to get my life back (RIGHT NOW ITS GONE) I'm one month into this and it feels like 10 years

I will prevail--and 50% of it will be mental and 50% will be my body repairing to a point that I can call it a success. If LLLT is an option, I will use it along with any and all available options at this point, because it seems the magic drug is not yet here.

 

[Artemis2K]

Not sure if this works or not, but the myelin sheath has definitely been proven to be essential for haircells, and there are other ways that have been shown to help it, such as Vitamin D.

If shining a laser in my hear would heal my 15 db hearing loss, great. But I am not investing in that.

 

[briano]

This is my 6 month audiogram since using Dr. Wilden's laser. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any real improvement. I'll be sending him a message to see what he has to say about this. In the meantime, I will still continue to use the laser. I hope that my results (or lack thereof) can help people decide if laser treatment is for them. I'll admit that I'm a bit down...but I am not out. Let's see what Dr. Wilden has to say.

 

[Paulmanlike]

What did he say? Or did he just put his little finger in his mouth and laugh , should be called Dr Evil

 

[briano]

What did he say? Or did he just put his little finger in his mouth and laugh , should be called Dr Evil

I did not get a reply back yet. I just sent him another email.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Good lucky mate, I did tinnitool treatment few years back

 

[briano]

Good lucky mate, I did tinnitool treatment few years back

Did that work?

 

[Paulmanlike]

No

 

[briano]

Dr. Wilden's response to my 6 month audiogram that doesn't show much of an improvement:

Dear Brian,
It is important to feel what is going on and it is impossible that your hearing is not improving. What are your therapy times? Do you feel as if your ears like the therapy or not? How is your sensitivity against daily loudness? Do you protect your ears against daily loudness? Can you send me your audiogram(s) before you started your home therapy?
Sincerely, Dr. L. Wilden

 

[Paulmanlike]

If that guy could cure tinnitus or shl he would of won a Nobel prize. He would of also encouraged indepent medical trails proving efficacy.

Sad to say mate, I spent £300 on a tinnitool, as I was desperate and somebody is £300 better off.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Does it feel like your ears like the therapy

Yeah mate I speak to them everyday.