Is There Any Scientific Evidence Showing How Long It Takes for Tinnitus / Hearing Issues to Recover?

[musicblue]

I have read a lot of posts where people say ears take a long time to heal. 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months etc.

I've not really found anything scientific that backs this up, explains why and to what extent what heals and what doesn't.

Does anyone know where these time frames come from and the evidence behind them? Is this all subjective?

When a footballer breaks his leg he pretty much knows how long he will be out of action for, give or take, based on medical information. With the ears it seems to not even be documented to this level unless I'm missing something.

 

[GBB]

I have read a lot of posts where people say ears take a long time to heal. 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months etc.

I've not really found anything scientific that backs this up, explains why and to what extent what heals and what doesn't.

Does anyone know where these time frames come from and the evidence behind them? Is this all subjective?

When a footballer breaks his leg he pretty much knows how long he will be out of action for, give or take, based on medical information. With the ears it seems to not even be documented to this level unless I'm missing something.

I've queried 3 ENT, two neurologists, and a neuro-otologist on this subject. I asked, given x window of time, what percent of people will recover within that window; I wanted to understand how as time moves on, how that impacts probability of healing.

All shrugged at me. I would like to see this research as well.

 

[GoatSheep]

@Bill Bauer

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Was involved in an unscientific study for district school children with mild moderate to moderate noise induced tinnitus. Some are doing better having been on school virus break. No noisy school and bus travel environment ? Ones that didn't use the internet daily searching for answers are doing better. Parents that didn't over provide foods with salicylates are doing better. Foods with potassium - potatoes and fish - fish oil a possible plus. Hobbies.


Internet studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5971248/salicylate

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4912237/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25689850/

 

[GBB]

Was involved in an unscientific study for district school children with mild moderate to moderate noise induced tinnitus. Some are doing better having been on school virus break. No noisy school and bus travel environment ? Ones that didn't use the internet daily searching for answers are doing better. Parents that didn't over provide foods with salicylates are doing better. Foods with potassium - potatoes and fish - fish oil a possible plus. Hobbies.

Internet studies:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5971248/salicylate

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4912237/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25689850/

That's interesting - I've been eating as much fruit as possible thinking higher antioxidants would be beneficial.

Maybe I need to taper a bit.

I've seen in prior posts you mention working with a neuroscientist/neurosurgeon to help your tinnitus, if I am remembering correctly. Is there anything you would recommend that helped?

 

[Contrast]

There was one study I read along time ago about bomb blast in Israel and how in several months times people recovered their hearing. I'll post it later if I can find it!

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I've seen in prior posts you mention working with a neuroscientist/neurosurgeon to help your tinnitus, if I am remembering correctly. Is there anything you would recommend that helped?

For acoustic trauma and micro suction: Time, trying to stay relaxed, a hobby - something to keep mind off tinnitus as much as possible. Magnesium 1/3 tablet three times a day and always one tablet one hour before going to the dentist. NAC - 1 tablet daily for those in good health under 55 years of age. If older, circulation needs to be good.

About 11.5 years ago, I received 10/10 fire alarm tinnitus and severe hyperacusis from emergency ear syringing - a long story that I told before. I had to quit my job. The hyperacusis went away within a year with use of pink rain and running brook. At year 4 - tinnitus settled to a 5.5 or 6/10 - almost as loud as a microwave. At that time, I did not focus on my tinnitus until later in afternoon and only on occasion. I was able to live a pretty normal and happy life. I did use ear protection when cutting the grass or traveling on a busy highway.

A couple of years later I received dental whiplash, severe mouth injuries and very high pitched somatic tinnitus.. Another long story that I told before. I developed all sorts of problems, including hypertension that also almost blinded me - treatment was given for that. Hypertension caused an abdominal aortic aneurysm and artery disease that caused very loud pulsatile tinnitus. My mouth is in serious pain. I'm just a mess. Way to much for me to deal with.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Magnesium 1/3 tablet three times a day

@GBB - just to be clear - One tablet of magnesium a day. It works better if cut into three pieces. One piece every 8 hours or you could take one half of a tablet every 12 hours.

 

[Poseidon65]

This is a really basic question. The fact that it remains unanswered shows just how poor the state of tinnitus research is.

 

[Kriszti]

@Contrast @GoatSheep

Did you mean this thread by @Bill Bauer ?

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/spontaneous-recovery-stats-many-recover-3-studies.21441/

 

[Mr_Orange_3737]

About 11.5 years ago, I received 10/10 fire alarm tinnitus and severe hyperacusis from emergency ear syringing - a long story that I told before. I had to quit my job. The hyperacusis went away within a year with use of pink rain and running brook. At year 4 - tinnitus settled to a 5.5 or 6/10 - almost as loud as a microwave. At that time, I did not focus on my tinnitus until later in afternoon and only on occasion. I was able to live a pretty normal and happy life. I did use ear protection when cutting the grass or traveling on a busy highway.

Hi Greg, I also just got tinnitus from syringing. I've been trying to get in contact with people who've had this since all my doctors seem to deny that syringing is the cause. It does seem like a relatively rare thing from searching these boards. My tinnitus is actually just the "hear it in quiet rooms" type. I can't even hear it outdoors. I do have some hyperacusis too.

Have you ever heard of anyone recovering from the syringing type of tinnitus? It's so hard to pin down what type of damage was even done.

Also what is the protocol for the dental work? I'm assuming ear plugs aren't going to help much with the noise from within your mouth...? Should I just brush and floss 3 times a day?

 

[swc5150]

It would be interesting to know how many folks on this site end up abandoning after a period of time, which could potentially indicate their tinnitus improving. Ironically I was just about to post a success story. I hardly ever come here anymore, since my tinnitus and hyperacusis is essentially non-existent now.. .and that's coming down from an 8 or 9 when it began. I'm writing this in what I'd consider silence, about 7 years in the making from original onset. Maybe my ears have actually healed after not being able to play concerts this year (COVID-19)? Just hang in there all, it gets better!

 

[GBB]

For acoustic trauma and micro suction: Time, trying to stay relaxed, a hobby - something to keep mind off tinnitus as much as possible. Magnesium 1/3 tablet three times a day and always one tablet one hour before going to the dentist. NAC - 1 tablet daily for those in good health under 55 years of age. If older, circulation needs to be good.

About 11.5 years ago, I received 10/10 fire alarm tinnitus and severe hyperacusis from emergency ear syringing - a long story that I told before. I had to quit my job. The hyperacusis went away within a year with use of pink rain and running brook. At year 4 - tinnitus settled to a 5.5 or 6/10 - almost as loud as a microwave. At that time, I did not focus on my tinnitus until later in afternoon and only on occasion. I was able to live a pretty normal and happy life. I did use ear protection when cutting the grass or traveling on a busy highway.

A couple of years later I received dental whiplash, severe mouth injuries and very high pitched somatic tinnitus.. Another long story that I told before. I developed all sorts of problem, including hypertension that also almost blinded me - treatment was given for that. Hypertension caused an abdominal aortic aneurysm and artery disease that caused very loud pulsatile tinnitus. My mouth is in serious pain. I'm just a mess. Way to much for me to deal with.

Thanks for recapping all of that, especially despite everything you are going through.

It would be interesting to know how many folks on this site end up abandoning after a period of time, which could potentially indicate their tinnitus improving. Ironically I was just about to post a success story. I hardly ever come here anymore, since my tinnitus and hyperacusis is essentially non-existent now.. .and that's coming down from an 8 or 9 when it began. I'm writing this in what I'd consider silence, about 7 years in the making from original onset. Maybe my ears have actually healed after not being able to play concerts this year (COVID-19)? Just hang in there all, it gets better!

You should definitely post a success story once you are comfortable and beyond the jinxing it phase - if you aren't, no pressure!

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Mr_Orange_3737 Syringing is probably cause and very few cases get medically documented. I have a link as to how often it really happens, but I rather give you positive and mindful support. I assume that it's been over a month since your syringing, so hair cell damage is probably very limited as you can only hear it in quiet rooms. Hyperacusis can happen from syringing, but it may be that you receive less sound annoyance, but had some pressure to your ear drum that maybe just caused a temporary ear drum retraction. I would follow the World Health Organization guidelines (WHO) or other hearing association guidelines for noise level safety and accumulative noise.

I would take a magnesium tablet one hour before dental drilling, but always consider any possible side effects for self before use. You may want to have any drilling off and on. Five or ten seconds on and the same amount of time off. A little more appointment time may be needed. Manual cleanings should be considered for sound safety. Ask for a small pillow to place behind neck and don't lift your neck off headrest with mouth open and when pressure is being applied to the front lower jaw. Rest your mouth when you can for a few seconds if dental work is being done far back.

Very glad for you - take care my friend.

 

[Mr_Orange_3737]

Greg, thanks for the advice. The doctor did notice my right eardrum was retracted.

Was there hearing loss in your case? I'd be very interested to read the full details of your story actually. I couldn't find your post.

I read on here that there's a higher recovery chance if you don't have hearing loss. I'm trying to figure out if the syringe damage done is actually that of hearing loss.

I'm in a weird situation now where I'm getting mixed responses from Audiologists and ENT's regarding my audiogram. I've gotten two audiograms which look very similar. One ENT is sure that it is hearing loss from the 3 kHz-4 kHz area dip. Another ENT actually said "good thing, we can rule out sudden hearing loss" in our first meeting and then flip-flopped and sided with the other ENT after hearing about his conclusion on our second meeting. Both audiologists said that my hearing range is normal and that there is no hearing loss (I made sure to not tell them what the ENT's said before asking them).

I'm actually going to make a separate thread about this odd dilemma after I have one more ENT meeting. I attached both audiograms at the end of this though if you're interested.

If you've been on theses forums, I'm sure you've come across this study regarding wax removal and tinnitus documented at a clinic:

https://www.tinnitusjournal.com/art...resulting-from-cerumen-removal-procedures.pdf

Only one of those 11 syringed patients had hearing loss but even she still eventually recovered. So it seems like the damage done is typically something different from hearing loss. The rest also recovered but the longest took 7 years. Even though that study is taken from just one clinic, that's a very high recovery rate.

8/14/2020 audiogram

9/15/2020 audiogram

 

[Kendra]

Greg, thanks for the advice. The doctor did notice my right eardrum was retracted.

Was there hearing loss in your case? I'd be very interested to read the full details of your story actually. I couldn't find your post.

I read on here that there's a higher recovery chance if you don't have hearing loss. I'm trying to figure out if the syringe damage done is actually that of hearing loss.

I'm in a weird situation now where I'm getting mixed responses from Audiologists and ENT's regarding my audiogram. I've gotten two audiograms which look very similar. One ENT is sure that it is hearing loss from the 3 kHz-4 kHz area dip. Another ENT actually said "good thing, we can rule out sudden hearing loss" in our first meeting and then flip-flopped and sided with the other ENT after hearing about his conclusion on our second meeting. Both audiologists said that my hearing range is normal and that there is no hearing loss (I made sure to not tell them what the ENT's said before asking them).

I'm actually going to make a separate thread about this odd dilemma after I have one more ENT meeting. I attached both audiograms at the end of this though if you're interested.

If you've been on theses forums, I'm sure you've come across this study regarding wax removal and tinnitus documented at a clinic:

https://www.tinnitusjournal.com/art...resulting-from-cerumen-removal-procedures.pdf

Only one of those 11 syringed patients had hearing loss but even she still eventually recovered. So it seems like the damage done is typically something different from hearing loss. The rest also recovered but the longest took 7 years. Even though that study is taken from just one clinic, that's a very high recovery rate.

8/14/2020 audiogram
View attachment 40654

9/15/2020 audiogram
View attachment 40655

I would say you have hearing loss. Yes it's still in the normal range. But the dip you are talking about is still hearing loss, it's just not going to be able to be treated with hearing aids because it's not bad enough to need them.

 

[GoatSheep]

Did you mean this thread by @Bill Bauer ?

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/spontaneous-recovery-stats-many-recover-3-studies.21441/

That's one. I think he may have some others he posts also when threads like this come up.

 

[Mr_Orange_3737]

I would say you have hearing loss. Yes it's still in the normal range. But the dip you are talking about is still hearing loss, it's just not going to be able to be treated with hearing aids because it's not bad enough to need them.

Thanks for looking over my audiogram. A friend noted something interesting when I described this to him. How can there be a dip in both ears in that same 3 kHz spot if I didn't even get syringed an equal amount in both ears? The nurse syringed my left ear twice and my right ear once and took a piece out of the right with the curette (I actually felt a slight pinch when she did that). I remember the left side taking longer to release the syringe water.

If it is hearing loss, the implication is that she hit the jackpot that day in choosing the perfect ratio of syringe pressure in both ears to nail that exact hearing loss damage on both sides.

To add this, when I hold my ear hole closed and listen, I hear the ring coming out the right side. The left side is just a low hum. Also, I've been getting a fullness sensation once a day, again...only in the right ear. When I do valsalva, the left side pops first and there is a delay on the right side. So symptomatically, it seems like it's all on the right side, but the audiogram implies that both sides were damaged.

Any thoughts about this?

Also, the ENT's said the same thing you did about the hearing aids. However, are we just saying this isn't severe enough for insurance to cover it? Or can I actually get them if I'm willing to pay out of pocket?

If it's hearing loss related, couldn't they just temporarily test a pair of hearing aids on me in the office, amplify that 3K range, and see if it fixes it? You would think that'd be a great way to sell hearing aids too if people can go for a test drive first?

 

[Zaccq]

It's not "clinical" hearing loss because it's at or below 20dB.

I suspect that's why your ENT said "good thing, we can rule out sudden hearing loss".

 

[Kendra]

Thanks for looking over my audiogram. A friend noted something interesting when I described this to him. How can there be a dip in both ears in that same 3 kHz spot if I didn't even get syringed an equal amount in both ears? The nurse syringed my left ear twice and my right ear once and took a piece out of the right with the curette (I actually felt a slight pinch when she did that). I remember the left side taking longer to release the syringe water.

If it is hearing loss, the implication is that she hit the jackpot that day in choosing the perfect ratio of syringe pressure in both ears to nail that exact hearing loss damage on both sides.

To add this, when I hold my ear hole closed and listen, I hear the ring coming out the right side. The left side is just a low hum. Also, I've been getting a fullness sensation once a day, again...only in the right ear. When I do valsalva, the left side pops first and there is a delay on the right side. So symptomatically, it seems like it's all on the right side, but the audiogram implies that both sides were damaged.

Any thoughts about this?

Also, the ENT's said the same thing you did about the hearing aids. However, are we just saying this isn't severe enough for insurance to cover it? Or can I actually get them if I'm willing to pay out of pocket?

If it's hearing loss related, couldn't they just temporarily test a pair of hearing aids on me in the office, amplify that 3K range, and see if it fixes it? You would think that'd be a great way to sell hearing aids too if people can go for a test drive first?

I'm not sure about the equal hearing loss part. You could always go into see an audiologist and do a test with hearing aids to see if it would help. You'd definitely end up paying out of pocket for them though.

 

[david c]

I have read a lot of posts where people say ears take a long time to heal. 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months etc.

I've not really found anything scientific that backs this up, explains why and to what extent what heals and what doesn't.

Does anyone know where these time frames come from and the evidence behind them? Is this all subjective?

When a footballer breaks his leg he pretty much knows how long he will be out of action for, give or take, based on medical information. With the ears it seems to not even be documented to this level unless I'm missing something.

It really all depends what you mean by "healing" and what caused your hearing problems and tinnitus in the first place. Something like an ear infection can be treated and potentially hearing will improve again, though this treatment may not solve the tinnitus. Similarly with ototoxic medication. Rare instances of tumours can also be treated.

For those with noise-induced tinnitus, the concept of healing is unfortunately rather a misleading one. Those tiny hairs within the cochlear damaged in noise exposure won't "heal", they will stay damaged. The best you can hope for therefore is that the condition won't worsen - and for that careful avoidance of future noise exposure is vital. There is also evidence that some steroids, if prescribed early enough, can mitigate the damage and reduce chances of permanent hearing damage.

 

[Mr_Orange_3737]

It's not "clinical" hearing loss because it's at or below 20dB.

I suspect that's why your ENT said "good thing, we can rule out sudden hearing loss".

Sure, but it's still odd to leave out how even a minor dip in the audiogram can cause tinnitus and then completely side with that narrative on our second meeting.

My questions and concerns towards her on that first meeting were mostly about the symptom of tinnitus and not so much the actual sensation of hearing loss. So, she knew what I was trying to get at.

I guess what I'm trying to suss out from this is: Do people who have obvious hearing loss associated tinnitus usually display a much bigger dip in hearing loss on their audiogram? Is the dip on my audiogram truly minute enough to cause some degree of ambiguity?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Mr_Orange_3737 How many pumps in each ear did you receive and was it very loud?

 

[Zaccq]

I guess what I'm trying to suss out from this is: Do people who have obvious hearing loss associated tinnitus usually display a much bigger dip in hearing loss on their audiogram? Is the dip on my audiogram truly minute enough to cause some degree of ambiguity?

I think what's going on is, when they are looking for clinical SSHL, I believe the criteria is for loss above 20dB. I have also read they look for an assymetrical of 15dB or more.

You didn't satisfy the criteria, therefore you weren't diagnosed with SSHL.

Another thing is they often seem to consider that you possibily always had the tinnitus but just started noticing it.

But they do consider accumulated noise trauma as a contributing factor.

 

[Mr_Orange_3737]

@Mr_Orange_3737 How many pumps in each ear did you receive and was it very loud?

2 pumps on the left. 1 on the right (right side is the side that rings). They also picked out a piece with a curette on the right and I remember feeling a slight pinch from that.

It wasn't loud at all actually. You might be thinking of irrigation. The tinnitus started 5 hours after too (several of the patients in that study had a delay too).

The one red flag to me was that they didn't use Debrox. Nurse said it was fine and both ENTs said it wasn't a big deal.

There's a lot more nuance to the story. I made a post about it here (full story is towards the end): https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...i-have-eustachian-tube-dysfunction-now.42245/

 

[Mr_Orange_3737]

I think what's going on is, when they are looking for clinical SSHL, I believe the criteria is for loss above 20dB. I have also read they look for an assymetrical of 15dB or more.

You didn't satisfy the criteria, therefore you weren't diagnosed with SSHL.

Another thing is they often seem to consider that you possibily always had the tinnitus but just started noticing it.

But they do consider accumulated noise trauma as a contributing factor.

1) The point is I wasn't even concerned with or asking about or even knew much about SSHL I was asking about tinnitus. It's almost like asking "Hey doctor, I have this cut on my arm. Did I get an infection? It really stings" and she replies "Good thing we don't have to amputate your arm". You see what I mean? You still haven't told me if I have an infection yet.

2) The reason I highly doubt that this is just a slight difference in perception is because I also have the symptom of hypercausis and ear fullness. There's also another odd symptom that I use to get only a few times a year but now I'm getting it almost every other day. Whenever the ear fullness in my right ear happens, the left ear often sounds like my own voice has been amplified in it. It always happens in the morning and goes away in less than an hour.

So you see my point? I'd be more inclined to believe that theory if it the tinnitus was the only thing that unfolded.

Also, I recently visited my parents house which is much quieter than the apartment I live in. I remember being in the bathroom and noticing the tinnitus being louder than ever. It's a room I'm very familiar with and I remember thinking I've never been standing in this room and experiencing this before.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Mr_Orange_3737

I just read the link that you just provided to me above. I had mentioned a recessed eardrum and in your link - post - you said the last ENT said my right eardrum looks recessed. With that, if that mostly, you will probably see improvement, but it's hard to say when.

 

[Mr_Orange_3737]

Yes, the ENT mentioned this on the first meeting but I forgot if she noticed it again on our second one. I remember asking her but we were talking about so much stuff that I don't remember if we addressed it. I'm actually sending her a message right now to ask specifically about this.

Have you heard of cases where people's tinnitus and hyperacusis went away as their eardrum became unretracted? Any good reads on this issue?