It's High Time to Move Past and Stop Creating and/or Improving on "Coping" Treatments

[Gl0w0ut]

Much tinnitus treatment, from the mouths of various ENTs, audiologists, neurologists, PCPs, and big organizations like the American/British Tinnitus Association promote coping strategies and therapies to help people come to terms with this hell and live what they call a "good life" with the condition.

However, I believe it is time for research to start moving away from any coping therapies, and abandon any efforts to improve flawed ones now. No more CBT, no more TRT, no sound therapy, no hearing aids, no wearable maskers, and no antidepressants.

Last month, the University of Michigan ran a study in which applying a light shock to the dorsal cochlear nucleus (a hyperactive center critical the brain's homeostatic response in maintaining its "lost" hearing frequency) significantly reduced tinnitus is all 20 participants and 2 even had it go away completely. This is the kind of treatment we need, the kind that ACTUALLY treats tinnitus rather than the underlying symptoms. I would very much favor refusing any research grants for depression and anxiety therapies if it means we can get tinnitus treatments that antagonize the brain and recreate the gap it is trying to fill.

My hope is that this research will lead us to discover the DCN as the "volume knob" of tinnitus, so we can hopefully force the brain to turn it town to barely noticeable levels, and then break the knob so the brain cannot readjust it. Interfering with brain plasticity will be key too, so the brain cannot make new connections and make a new "volume knob". Only then can we alleviate out suffering, not by coping, but by antagonizing the very organ putting us through this goddamn hell.

So if you are new to this, do not do CBT, TRT, or any anxiety/depression therapy that has shaky evidence for effectiveness in the case of tinnitus. Only accept drug therapies that antagonize tinnitus pathways and hinder the brain's ability to "regain" its lost frequency. Do not donate to organizations like the American and British Tinnitus Associations. Despite all their fundraising, the overwhelming majority of their research has been useless to us as a whole, and is led by people who do not have tinnitus themselves.

Advocate not for coping skills or antidepressants, but for drugs like amitriptyline or this new potential therapy that will literally shock the brain out of its tone generation and deprive it of any ability to compensate. The brain is broken and failing to fix itself, so lets silence its efforts and let it stay broken.

 

[Jazzer]

Much tinnitus treatment, from the mouths of various ENTs, audiologists, neurologists, PCPs, and big organizations like the American/British Tinnitus Association promote coping strategies and therapies to help people come to terms with this hell and live what they call a "good life" with the condition.

However, I believe it is time for research to start moving away from any coping therapies, and abandon any efforts to improve flawed ones now. No more CBT, no more TRT, no sound therapy, no hearing aids, no wearable maskers, and no antidepressants.

Last month, the University of Michigan ran a study in which applying a light shock to the dorsal cochlear nucleus (a hyperactive center critical the brain's homeostatic response in maintaining its "lost" hearing frequency) significantly reduced tinnitus is all 20 participants and 2 even had it go away completely. This is the kind of treatment we need, the kind that ACTUALLY treats tinnitus rather than the underlying symptoms. I would very much favor refusing any research grants for depression and anxiety therapies if it means we can get tinnitus treatments that antagonize the brain and recreate the gap it is trying to fill.

My hope is that this research will lead us to discover the DCN as the "volume knob" of tinnitus, so we can hopefully force the brain to turn it town to barely noticeable levels, and then break the knob so the brain cannot readjust it. Interfering with brain plasticity will be key too, so the brain cannot make new connections and make a new "volume knob". Only then can we alleviate out suffering, not by coping, but by antagonizing the very organ putting us through this goddamn hell.

So if you are new to this, do not do CBT, TRT, or any anxiety/depression therapy that has shaky evidence for effectiveness in the case of tinnitus. Only accept drug therapies that antagonize tinnitus pathways and hinder the brain's ability to "regain" its lost frequency. Do not donate to organizations like the American and British Tinnitus Associations. Despite all their fundraising, the overwhelming majority of their research has been useless to us as a whole, and is led by people who do not have tinnitus themselves.

Advocate not for coping skills or antidepressants, but for drugs like amitriptyline or this new potential therapy that will literally shock the brain out of its tone generation and deprive it of any ability to compensate. The brain is broken and failing to fix itself, so lets silence its efforts and let it stay broken.

@Glowout
I absolutely agree that we desperately need a cure for this wretched condition.
But as we have nothing even approaching that right now, surely we are better off to utilise and improve on any coping strategies that are available to us.
They may amount to sticky plasters for our emotional state, but why try to struggle on without them?

 

[fishbone]

Much tinnitus treatment, from the mouths of various ENTs, audiologists, neurologists, PCPs, and big organizations like the American/British Tinnitus Association promote coping strategies and therapies to help people come to terms with this hell and live what they call a "good life" with the condition.

However, I believe it is time for research to start moving away from any coping therapies, and abandon any efforts to improve flawed ones now. No more CBT, no more TRT, no sound therapy, no hearing aids, no wearable maskers, and no antidepressants.

Last month, the University of Michigan ran a study in which applying a light shock to the dorsal cochlear nucleus (a hyperactive center critical the brain's homeostatic response in maintaining its "lost" hearing frequency) significantly reduced tinnitus is all 20 participants and 2 even had it go away completely. This is the kind of treatment we need, the kind that ACTUALLY treats tinnitus rather than the underlying symptoms. I would very much favor refusing any research grants for depression and anxiety therapies if it means we can get tinnitus treatments that antagonize the brain and recreate the gap it is trying to fill.

My hope is that this research will lead us to discover the DCN as the "volume knob" of tinnitus, so we can hopefully force the brain to turn it town to barely noticeable levels, and then break the knob so the brain cannot readjust it. Interfering with brain plasticity will be key too, so the brain cannot make new connections and make a new "volume knob". Only then can we alleviate out suffering, not by coping, but by antagonizing the very organ putting us through this goddamn hell.

So if you are new to this, do not do CBT, TRT, or any anxiety/depression therapy that has shaky evidence for effectiveness in the case of tinnitus. Only accept drug therapies that antagonize tinnitus pathways and hinder the brain's ability to "regain" its lost frequency. Do not donate to organizations like the American and British Tinnitus Associations. Despite all their fundraising, the overwhelming majority of their research has been useless to us as a whole, and is led by people who do not have tinnitus themselves.

Advocate not for coping skills or antidepressants, but for drugs like amitriptyline or this new potential therapy that will literally shock the brain out of its tone generation and deprive it of any ability to compensate. The brain is broken and failing to fix itself, so lets silence its efforts and let it stay broken.

Yes, let's not cope/habituate and live our lives. I don't see a cure coming soon, and I will not wait for it to come either. I live my life to the fullest and enjoy my life. Again we have someone that NEVER has done TRT and bashing it. Folks if you follow advice on this forum, look at those that have posted success stories and those that have TRIED various methods. Not those that NEVER tried it and just speculate about treatments.....

Success story = someone that has tinnitus, overcame their obstacles and LIVES their life and MOVES forward!

 

[Gl0w0ut]

Yes, let's not cope/habituate and live our lives. I don't see a cure coming soon, and I will not wait for it to come either. I live my life to the fullest and enjoy my life. Again we have someone that NEVER has done TRT and bashing it. Folks if you follow advice on this forum, look at those that have posted success stories and those that have TRIED various methods. Not those that NEVER tried it and just speculate about treatments.....

Success story = someone that has tinnitus, overcame their obstacles and LIVES their life and MOVES forward!

Get off your high horse. My success has been semi-habituation due to temporal circumstances.

I want a tinnitus treatment, not an anxiety treatment.

 

[threefirefour]

Yes, let's not cope/habituate and live our lives. I don't see a cure coming soon, and I will not wait for it to come either. I live my life to the fullest and enjoy my life. Again we have someone that NEVER has done TRT and bashing it. Folks if you follow advice on this forum, look at those that have posted success stories and those that have TRIED various methods. Not those that NEVER tried it and just speculate about treatments.....

Success story = someone that has tinnitus, overcame their obstacles and LIVES their life and MOVES forward!

I generally disagree with Gl0w0ut because we hate eachother, but he's absolutely 100% correct here. Yeah of course you don't see a cure coming soon, because you're stuck in the past. You seem to only care about habituation and not actually fixing the damn problem, I see it in all your comments.

Look, all I'm saying is that (And I know for a fact I speak for most people here), that we're tired of the habituation crap and look forward to a treatment. Gl0w0ut is just saying what's on our minds. If you don't agree thats fine, but it makes no sense to get mad at him for speaking the gospel truth.

Last month, the University of Michigan ran a study in which applying a light shock to the dorsal cochlear nucleus (a hyperactive center critical the brain's homeostatic response in maintaining its "lost" hearing frequency) significantly reduced tinnitus is all 20 participants and 2 even had it go away completely. This is the kind of treatment we need, the kind that ACTUALLY treats tinnitus rather than the underlying symptoms. I would very much favor refusing any research grants for depression and anxiety therapies if it means we can get tinnitus treatments that antagonize the brain and recreate the gap it is trying to fill.

I know gl0w0ut can't see this, but I still feel like addressing it. Not all 20 participants got significant reduction in dB. Just THI (Basically habituation crap. Ignore it). Only 11 people got good reduction in dB according to my understanding, but that reduction averaged 12dB, so that's really good.

 

[fishbone]

I generally disagree with Gl0w0ut because we hate eachother, but he's absolutely 100% correct here. Yeah of course you don't see a cure coming soon, because you're stuck in the past. You seem to only care about habituation and not actually fixing the damn problem, I see it in all your comments.

Look, all I'm saying is that (And I know for a fact I speak for most people here), that we're tired of the habituation crap and look forward to a treatment. Gl0w0ut is just saying what's on our minds. If you don't agree thats fine, but it makes no sense to get mad at him for speaking the gospel truth.


I know gl0w0ut can't see this, but I still feel like addressing it. Not all 20 participants got significant reduction in dB. Just THI (Basically habituation crap. Ignore it). Only 11 people got good reduction in dB according to my understanding, but that reduction averaged 12dB, so that's really good.

Gospel of truth? All those things that he is bashing has helped thousands of people, including myself. I come here to help people and i been at this for 30+ years. You two kids are here to just rattle this board. I careless what excuses you throw at me, but bashing treatments that has helped people is just ignorance. I will continue to support people on this board and you go back to posting funny anime and just trolling this forum

In the end, you simply hold yourself back.....Simple as that...now please come back with another excuse....

 

[threefirefour]

Gospel of truth? All those things that he is bashing has helped thousands of people, including myself. I come here to help people and i been at this for 30+ years. You two kids are here to just rattle this board. I careless what excuses you throw at me, but bashing treatments that has helped people is just ignorance. I will continue to support people on this board and you go back to posting funny anime and just trolling this forum

In the end, you simply hold yourself back.....

The hell you talking about? He posts stuff about research all the time. I post memes mostly, but I also contribute in research threads.

We're more than a couple of "Kids who are here just to rattle this board", and I think you know it too. You just don't want to acknowledge the fact that people who think like us make up a sizeable portion of tinnitus sufferers. Back when it was just me, I was a "lone troll" according to you. Then gl0w0ut came and it's now a pair. What about other users like Equalizer and Contrast? Are they just trolls too? If we're all just trolls, then it's very lucky we all coincidentally met eachother on this board. Or the most likely answer, we represent a subset of tinnitus sufferers.

So yes, I will continue to bash TRT for the reasons gl0w0ut said, I will continue to post anime girls, and yes, I will continue to post memes. Sorry if you don't like it, but remember I'm not trying to attack you in praticular. Just this line of thought.

 

[foliefortuna]

Gospel of truth? All those things that he is bashing has helped thousands of people, including myself. I come here to help people and i been at this for 30+ years. You two kids are here to just rattle this board. I careless what excuses you throw at me, but bashing treatments that has helped people is just ignorance. I will continue to support people on this board and you go back to posting funny anime and just trolling this forum

In the end, you simply hold yourself back.....Simple as that...now please come back with another excuse....

Comfort is the enemy of achievement. We should never accept inferior and *almost* completely useless treatments that we have today. We should strive for something that will actually reduce and eventually eliminate tinnitus. That is what humanity should try to do with all the diseases on the planet.

Hippocrates wrote that tinnitus could be masked by a louder sound back in ancient Greece. And thousands of years later, we do not have anything better. That is pathetic.

 

[fishbone]

Good luck on finding something that reduces the volume, let me know when you find it

 

[threefirefour]

Comfort is the enemy of achievement. We should never accept inferior and *almost* completely useless treatments that we have today. We should strive for something that will actually reduce and eventually eliminate tinnitus. That is what humanity should try to do with all the diseases on the planet.

Hippocrates wrote that tinnitus could be masked by a louder sound back in ancient Greece. And thousands of years later, we do not have anything better. That is pathetic.

Exactly thank you! And the psychology that people like fishbone and michael leigh espouse is absolutely not helping. Yet they have the nerve to call me the bad apple, I just find that funny.

A while ago in some other thread we talked about how Martin Luther (the protestant guy not the black guy) had bad tinnitus. We asked if he would be any better off today and most people agreed he would be absolutely no better off, 500 years ago. Even farther back in time, the Egyptians believed in the "bewitched ear" that was a curse that created tinnitus sounds. The treatment was to put honey on that ear. 4000 years later and we're STILL absolutely no better off. That needs to change.

 

[threefirefour]

Good luck on finding something that reduces the volume, let me know when you find it

Alright thanks. If I do, I'll be sure to talk about it.

 

[foliefortuna]

"A while ago in some other thread we talked about how Martin Luther (the protestant guy not the black guy) had bad tinnitus. We asked if he would be any better off today and most people agreed he would be absolutely no better off, 500 years ago. Even farther back in time, the Egyptians believed in the "bewitched ear" that was a curse that created tinnitus sounds. The treatment was to put honey on that ear. 4000 years later and we're STILL absolutely no better off. That needs to change."

I never thought about it that way. There are definitely disorders that I would consider worse than tinnitus (multiple sclerosis and trigeminal neuralgia are a few) but people with those disorders today are better off than people with them 500 years ago.

 

[Bassplayer]

Much tinnitus treatment, from the mouths of various ENTs, audiologists, neurologists, PCPs, and big organizations like the American/British Tinnitus Association promote coping strategies and therapies to help people come to terms with this hell and live what they call a "good life" with the condition.

However, I believe it is time for research to start moving away from any coping therapies, and abandon any efforts to improve flawed ones now. No more CBT, no more TRT, no sound therapy, no hearing aids, no wearable maskers, and no antidepressants.

Last month, the University of Michigan ran a study in which applying a light shock to the dorsal cochlear nucleus (a hyperactive center critical the brain's homeostatic response in maintaining its "lost" hearing frequency) significantly reduced tinnitus is all 20 participants and 2 even had it go away completely. This is the kind of treatment we need, the kind that ACTUALLY treats tinnitus rather than the underlying symptoms. I would very much favor refusing any research grants for depression and anxiety therapies if it means we can get tinnitus treatments that antagonize the brain and recreate the gap it is trying to fill.

My hope is that this research will lead us to discover the DCN as the "volume knob" of tinnitus, so we can hopefully force the brain to turn it town to barely noticeable levels, and then break the knob so the brain cannot readjust it. Interfering with brain plasticity will be key too, so the brain cannot make new connections and make a new "volume knob". Only then can we alleviate out suffering, not by coping, but by antagonizing the very organ putting us through this goddamn hell.

So if you are new to this, do not do CBT, TRT, or any anxiety/depression therapy that has shaky evidence for effectiveness in the case of tinnitus. Only accept drug therapies that antagonize tinnitus pathways and hinder the brain's ability to "regain" its lost frequency. Do not donate to organizations like the American and British Tinnitus Associations. Despite all their fundraising, the overwhelming majority of their research has been useless to us as a whole, and is led by people who do not have tinnitus themselves.

Advocate not for coping skills or antidepressants, but for drugs like amitriptyline or this new potential therapy that will literally shock the brain out of its tone generation and deprive it of any ability to compensate. The brain is broken and failing to fix itself, so lets silence its efforts and let it stay broken.

The fact is that the majority DO end up habituating and tinnitus no longer plays a part in their lives. This happens as a result of the 'coping treatments' you speak of. In fact some people seem to deal with it without seeking any form of treatment.

The question is, why do some people get stuck in a negative loop for many years?

I suppose it would be interesting to ask those who have habituated/moved on, whether they would take a magic pill or shock treatment etc if it was available? I know I wouldn't.

 

[foliefortuna]

The fact is that the majority DO end up habituating and tinnitus no longer plays a part in their lives. This happens as a result of the 'coping treatments' you speak of. In fact some people seem to deal with it without seeking any form of treatment.

The question is, why do some people get stuck in a negative loop for many years?

I suppose it would be interesting to ask those who have habituated/moved on, whether they would take a magic pill or shock treatment etc if it was available? I know I wouldn't.

You are really in the minority if you would not take a magic pill to cure their tinnitus. Almost everyone would.

 

[Bassplayer]

You are really in the minority if you would not take a magic pill to cure their tinnitus. Almost everyone would.

I don't think the data is there to know. You'd need to find people who have habituated and moved on. I suspect there aren't many on here because they will have...well...moved on!

The only reason I'm trying to help people here is because I can remember how aweful I felt 6 years ago when I went through the panic stage. It would be a lot easier for me not to bring back those memories, and I guess that goes for others who have moved on and left the forum.

 

[Gl0w0ut]

Good luck on finding something that reduces the volume, let me know when you find it

The shock treatment study I mentioned had wide success in reducing tinnitus (although it was only 20 people). They are getting funding to do a larger study. THIS is what we should be funding and not coping "treatments".

 

[Ray M]

If I match my tone with a similiar louder tone and listen for 10 minutes it sends my tinnitus into remission for quite awhile.

 

[GregCA]

If I match my tone with a similiar louder tone and listen for 10 minutes it sends my tinnitus into remission for quite awhile.

Residual inhibition.

 

[Tinniger]

However, I believe it is time for research to start moving away from any coping therapies, and abandon any efforts to improve flawed ones now. No more CBT, no more TRT, no sound therapy, no hearing aids, no wearable maskers, and no antidepressants.

You overlook the fact that not only is there a great lack of therapeutic possibilities, but also that first of all the diagnosis is totally inadequate.

 

[Gl0w0ut]

You overlook the fact that not only is there a great lack of therapeutic possibilities, but also that first of all the diagnosis is totally inadequate.

I had to read the last part of your sentence two or three times before I understood you.

Maybe the lack of therapeutic quality is the fact that everyone wants to fix the symptoms of tinnitus and not the condition itself? Maybe its all "relaxation" exercises, diet changes to potentially reduce the noise, and attempts to drown out or ignore the noise as opposed to antagonizing the brain stem to stop the noise?

Its like this. In treating a condition like tinnitus, you can either be the brain's friend or its enemy. Being its friend is what science does now, allow the brain to maintain its function without harming it, try and get the so-called "gate keeper" restored, and help you relax and life a good life WITH this unaltered noise.

Rather, we should look into ways to permanently down regulate those DCN receptors so they exhaust themselves, induce apoptosis, and die. Or find ways to kill those cells outright while also blocking neurogensis and neuroplasticity (even if its permanent in that brain region so serious afflictions later in life are permanent) so the brain cannot every correct it and the function remains lost and broken forever.

 

[dayma]

It's dangerous to tell someone not to use coping like DBT or CBT in my opinion. There are literally no downsides to using these as tools.

 

[Gl0w0ut]

It's dangerous to tell someone not to use coping like DBT or CBT in my opinion. There are literally no downsides to using these as tools.

If it's ineffective I consider it harmful. But fine, now that I'm calmer, try them out if it suits you. Amitriptyline and occasionally masking is the only real tinnitus treatments I've found.

 

[Tinniger]

I had to read the last part of your sentence two or three times before I understood you.

I wanted to emphasize that tinnitus and tinnitus are probably two completely different things. The term tinnitus is a collective term for all kinds of tinnitus with all kinds of causes. Unfortunately, it is not the case that the majority of patients had a trigger as specific as a blast trauma.
Tinnitus is, in my opinion, an unspecific symptom comparable to headaches. There are many causes, many manifestations and therefore one cannot search for a single treatment until the cause has been properly clarified.

 

[threefirefour]

It's dangerous to tell someone not to use coping like DBT or CBT in my opinion. There are literally no downsides to using these as tools.

Shill harder.

 

[dayma]

Shill harder.

Not sure I understand what you are implying.