Just Came From Audiology...

[alibee]

I have completely normal hearing (actually better than average), and heard tones at 250, 500, 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 6000, and 8000 hz at less than 15db. She started testing me at threshold and it was a struggle to hear over the T but I apparently managed

Now I'm waiting for my follow-up with ENT, but I'm not feeling too optimistic they'll be able to do anything helpful knowing that I've got such good hearing.

 

[LadyDi]

Hi Alibee... Did they test you in ranges above 8500 hz? That is where most hearing tests stop. But many people with T, including me, have loss in much higher ranges that can be detected with more sophisticated tests. Not that it makes a lot of difference in treatment. At least you have hearing within normal ranges. People with severe hearing loss within normal ranges often are not candidates for sound therapy.

 

[seal]

That's nearly always the problem, they just don't know what's wrong with us - so they can't help.

 

[Valentin]

ask them to test you at 15625hz and see their faces

 

[erik]

Even if they can't help you with your T or find the cause, knowing that your hearing is fine is good news.

 

[alibee]

I'm actually relieved that my hearing is fine -- like @marrku, I'm extremely myopic, so having to deal with hearing loss on top of that would be quite devastating.

So, essentially, she told me nothing new: there is no cure (which we know), I don't have a brain tumor and this is not indicative of hearing loss later, and that anything you see as a quick fix for tinnitus is most likely charlatanry; however, in 10% of sufferers they found that a normal dose of magnesium, zinc, or ginko can help. (Take one at it's normal dosage for 1 month to see if you're in the 10%, essentially.) Otherwise, there is a center at UCSF that does neuromonics ($4.5k, see http://www.ucsfhealth.org/conditions/tinnitus/treatment.html) or I can get a masker.

 

[Raul]

try to massage your jaw muscles and your neck muscles and see if there's any change maybe it's muscles related!

 

[My T Sucks]

I did not test well in my left ear. I believe I have substantial hearing loss in my left ear (shotgun blast). I was looking into acoustic neuromodulation. Will it work for me? I have baseline T of which I have absolutely no problem with. In fact, I'm in the midst of one of my "great" days during which I am back to baseline. I would love to have this everyday.

 

[Dr. Ancill]

I'm actually relieved that my hearing is fine -- like @marrku, I'm extremely myopic, so having to deal with hearing loss on top of that would be quite devastating.

So, essentially, she told me nothing new: there is no cure (which we know), I don't have a brain tumor and this is not indicative of hearing loss later, and that anything you see as a quick fix for tinnitus is most likely charlatanry; however, in 10% of sufferers they found that a normal dose of magnesium, zinc, or ginko can help. (Take one at it's normal dosage for 1 month to see if you're in the 10%, essentially.) Otherwise, there is a center at UCSF that does neuromonics ($4.5k, see http://www.ucsfhealth.org/conditions/tinnitus/treatment.html) or I can get a masker.

There really is no clinical evidence that zinc, magnesium and other supplements do anything at all. Gingko will tend to make tinnitus worse by increasing blood flow to the inner ear. There is no pharmaceutical or other type of cure and to keep looking is just to give your tinnitus more importance than it deserves. Habituation works better than anything so focus on that for the long term.

 

[Dr. Ancill]

Neuromonics is an expensive version of sound masking and habituation and is a well-dressed and pseudoscientific version of snake oil.

 

[alibee]

There really is no clinical evidence that zinc, magnesium and other supplements do anything at all. Gingko will tend to make tinnitus worse by increasing blood flow to the inner ear. There is no pharmaceutical or other type of cure and to keep looking is just to give your tinnitus more importance than it deserves. Habituation works better than anything so focus on that for the long term.

She actually quoted me the study. There is no clinical evidence because such a low number of people had positive responses that it wouldn't meet the standards for "clinical evidence". So, in the case of taking those supplements (which are inexpensive), it's okay to hope you're in the 10% for the one month you try it... and if it doesn't work you're only out about $10.

 

[LadyDi]

Neuromonics is an expensive version of sound masking and habituation and is a well-dressed and pseudoscientific version of snake oil.

Just curious: What do you base this opinion on?

Also, in the final sentence of your post, you say "habituation works better than anything." But at the beginning of the same post, you say "Neuromonics is an expensive version of sound masking and habituation." So does Neuromonics not help facilitate habituation, which you say works better than anything?

 

[erik]

The 32 billion dollar a year industry is a lucrative business especially with little to no regulation. Therefore, the quality can vary widely. And because of this, results vary widely.

Consumers have no idea to how much of a particular active ingredient is in their supplement. Consumerlab, which independently test supplements, routinely finds supplements which contain far less than it says on the label or even no active ingredient at all as well as extra ingredients like lead. And these are usually with the most popular supplements. Another problem, is that a lot of supplement studies are funded by the supplement manufacturers so of course the results will be favorable. Recently, the supplement industry is up in arms over reports of the ineffectiveness of multi-vitamins and vitamin d supplements.

People are not very well informed about supplements in regards to how much to take, how to take them for best absorption, when to take them etc. Take magnesium for example. There are more than 12 types of magnesium. Magnesium Oxide is the most common form on the market and has the lowest absorption rate of them all. 200mg of Mag Oxide is not nearly as effective as 100mg of Magnesium Citrate or Glycinate which are considered to be on the higher end with Magnesium. Also, there are right times and wrong times to take supplements. Some with food, some with liquid only and others on empty stomach. Most people tend to take them all at once and at irregular times. This can lead to difference in the effectiveness of supplements.

A little homework and personal research goes a long way into determining whether a supplement will benefit you or not. Most think it's just a magic pill that you need to take a few times a day and leave it at that waiting for the magic to happens.

 

[Dr. Ancill]

Just curious: What do you base this opinion on?

Also, in the final sentence of your post, you say "habituation works better than anything." But at the beginning of the same post, you say "Neuromonics is an expensive version of sound masking and habituation." So does Neuromonics not help facilitate habituation, which you say works better than anything?

The problem is that the Neuromonics industry promotes itself as a superior therapy There is no scientific basis for this. It works as well as other sound-based habituation therapies.

 

[Dr. Ancill]

I can understand why tinnitus sufferers are always looking for the 'magic bullet' but, unfortunately, as with most chronic conditions -there is no such thing. That is why it is called 'chronic'. Snake Oil salesman have enriched themselves for generations on the misery of those with chronic illnesses. Chronic illness will wax and wane with the passage of time so the last thing you did before improvement (albeit temporary) is seen as 'proof' of the efficacy of whatever treatment was been utilized. You will note that elsewhere in this thread, if the magnesium supplement does not work, that is because you are taking the wrong type of supplement or taking it at the wrong time of day. I am an experienced physician and bridle at the bad rep most GPs and ENTs get in these posts. While I am sure there are some stupid and uncaring doctors - most are not and are frustrated at not being able to offer a solution. So the reason why physicians are limited in what they can offer those of us with tinnitus is that there is very little to offer.

However the mainstay of coping with tinnitus remains (1) education, (2) reduce anxiety and stress, (3) get adequate sleep, and (4) tinnitus retraining. The rest is unlikely to do anything other than impoverish and disppoint you.

 

[LadyDi]

The problem is that the Neuromonics industry promotes itself as a superior therapy There is no scientific basis for this. It works as well as other sound-based habituation therapies.

This I agree with. I think the company oversells itself and charges more than it should. I also am worried about some of the clinics now offering this treatment. I think Neuromonics should be more cautious about who they allow to be providers, and mandate a stricter counseling protocol.

Having said that: "Snake oil" is a little harsh, though. I think Neuromonics does help some patients -- just as some other sound therapies do, albeit for less money. I started the program through a university-based ear clinic about a month and a half ago, and we will see how it goes. I looked hard at my alternatives before making the decision, and have no delusions that it will make my tinnitus go away. I took this path because I didn't see myself doing a very good job at the DIY sound therapy offerings. I can barely understand how to work my cell phone. I also saw it as a chance to get help from experienced ENTs and audiologists who I respect, and who know a lot more about tinnitus than I do. Who knows, maybe in time I would get the same results without spending a cent.

Thanks for your answer. And I agree with your mainstays.

 

[erik]

Whether Neuromonics actually works or not is not really always the only point. Some people with tinnitus are so distressed that if a device such as this can help one cope, give a little relief, reduce anxiety and offer a slight bit of hope for a few months to assist along the timeline to habituation then for some it may be worth it. Of course, you don't have to pay $5K for this device as you can do it on your own for much less.

I have never really been a proponent of these sound therapies but I think that it is possible that there might be some value for certain types of tinnitus such as tonal tinnitus. Since mine is tea kettle, electrical, hissing etc, these types of therapies do no good for me. I once asked a renowned tinnitus expert, physician and consultant for a company which makes sound therapy devices if one would habituate any way after a few months without any device and he said probably yes.

 

[Dr. Ancill]

Sound therapy is highly individual and I agree that it is unclear if it helps habituation directly or merely helps you cope better until time-related habituation occurs. I advise sound therapy for my tinnitus patients as it gives them the equivalent of 'the pill in the pocket' - that is, something they can do when the tinnitus threatens to overwhelm them. For me, nature sounds seem to work just fine and I can quickly ignore the tinnitus. I only use sound therapy later in the day. When I am working, the tinnitus does not bother me.

 

[Dr. Ancill]

This I agree with. I think the company oversells itself and charges more than it should. I also am worried about some of the clinics now offering this treatment. I think Neuromonics should be more cautious about who they allow to be providers, and mandate a stricter counseling protocol.

Having said that: "Snake oil" is a little harsh, though. I think Neuromonics does help some patients -- just as some other sound therapies do, albeit for less money. I started the program through a university-based ear clinic about a month and a half ago, and we will see how it goes. I looked hard at my alternatives before making the decision, and have no delusions that it will make my tinnitus go away. I took this path because I didn't see myself doing a very good job at the DIY sound therapy offerings. I can barely understand how to work my cell phone. I also saw it as a chance to get help from experienced ENTs and audiologists who I respect, and who know a lot more about tinnitus than I do. Who knows, maybe in time I would get the same results without spending a cent.

Thanks for your answer. And I agree with your mainstays.

I said 'Snake Oil' as it is being promoted as a breakthough, which is isn't - and it is needlessly expensive. For those that need hearing aids anyway, most modern hearing aids have bluetooth technology and can be used to support sound treatments. For those that do not need hearing aids, all you need is an android phone or Iphone and a decent set of earphones: much cheaper that formal neuromonics programs.

 

[DebS]

[quote=" When I am working, the tinnitus does not bother me.[/quote]
I'm just the opposite...I have a harder time at work when I'm stuck at my desk and it's quiet around me. I'm a copywriter and sometimes the T makes it very hard to concentrate. I don't like to use earbuds, they bother me, but sometimes when I can't take the T anymore I do use them to listen to nature sounds or soft music. It helps somewhat.