Kava Kava for Tinnitus — Post Your Experience!

[JasonP]

I'm just curious if anyone has ever tried this for tinnitus?

Gaia Herbs Kava Kava Root, Vegan Liquid Capsules, 60 Count - Supports Emotional Balance, Calm & Relaxation, Guaranteed Potency 75mg Active Kavalactones

I tried it a long time ago before I had tinnitus and it was right before bed and I had vivid dreams so I didn't take it after that until a few years later one early afternoon I took it and it just made me feel happy for no reason so I haven't taken it since.

I am wondering if it helps anyone with tinnitus.

By the way, I am not bothered by my tinnitus right now, just curious.

 

[Jacob83]

Not worth it. Kava Kava is hard on the liver and you'd need a high dose of it to get a claming effect that may affect your tinnitus positively. I guess once in a while would be ok, but it sounds like you'd want to use it regularly if it helps you and that would put you in high risk of liver damage.

 

[JasonP]

Not worth it. Kava Kava is hard on the liver and you'd need a high dose of it to get a claming effect that may affect your tinnitus positively. I guess once in a while would be ok, but it sounds like you'd want to use it regularly if it helps you and that would put you in high risk of liver damage.

What is a safe dosage that could be taken without liver damage? It seems to get high ratings (although only a few so far and as of 1/8/2017) for anxiety here:

https://www.drugs.com/comments/kava/for-anxiety.html

I found a video here on it.

 

[Jacob83]

Whose to say?

I actually haven't heard much about Kava Kava in the past 12 or so years. It was popular around recreational drug scenes for it's similarity to cannabis when used in high extract form, but quickly diminished when reports about liver toxicity started piling in. Looking it up now, there's mixed reports about liver toxicity with some believing it's all hype and some swearing that it isn't. Use at your own risk, I guess. Depending on where you live, it might not be legal.

 

[linearb]

My experience is that Kava is about 5% as relaxing as a benzo, so if a benzo gives you relief this might give you 5% as much :-P

Not worth it. Kava Kava is hard on the liver and you'd need a high dose of it to get a claming effect that may affect your tinnitus positively.

Assuming you get a high-quality product made only of the root of the plant, then this may be incorrect. The studies showing hepatoxicity were based on products made of the entire plant including the leaves --which were not part of the preparation when Kava was used by indigenous people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20720265

In conclusion, in a few individuals kava may be hepatotoxic due to overdose, prolonged treatment, comedication, and probably triggered by an unacceptable quality of the kava raw material; standardization is now required, minimizing thereby hepatotoxic risks.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269575/

It appears that the primary cause of toxicity may reside in the time before the preparation of the various kava extracts, possibly attributed to poor quality of the raw material caused by mould hepatotoxins. Rigorous testing of kava raw material is urgently advised, in addition to Pan-Pacific kava manufacturing quality standards

I probably wouldn't suggest consuming a Kava product to someone with impaired liver function, but based on the data available my feeling is that a mug of Kava tea is probably significantly less hepatoxic than having a couple beers.

It was popular around recreational drug scenes for it's similarity to cannabis when used in high extract form

Wait, what? AFAIK, there's a sweet spot above which you just get sick, not more sedated. I do not believe this substance has any similarity to cannabis; cannabis is a strong mind drug, Kava is an extremely mild and mostly body-based drug. You can sort of get into a weird visual hypnagogic state with it, but the same can be said of benadryl...

 

[Jacob83]

@linearb, my (small) knowledge of Kava Kava comes from what I used to read about it on Erowid and some Usenet groups many years ago. You're far more versed in it than I am. I've never taken it or seeked it out, I was only offering some cautionary advice based on what I used to read.

 

[Gl0w0ut]

I personally recommend Kava for tinnitus. It's great! It's like alcohol meets weed in a tea!

It's a GABA agonist, a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, a partial MAOI inhibitor (so be careful what you combine it with), it targets and antagonizes sodium and calcium iron channels, and agonizes your CB1 and 2 receptors.

Great for relaxation, sleep, and anxiety. Not so great on the liver if taken in large daily doses but god I feel great

 

[JasonP]

I personally recommend Kava for tinnitus. It's great! It's like alcohol meets weed in a tea!

It's a GABA agonist, a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, a partial MAOI inhibitor (so be careful what you combine it with), it targets and antagonizes sodium and calcium iron channels, and agonizes your CB1 and 2 receptors.

Great for relaxation, sleep, and anxiety. Not so great on the liver if taken in large daily doses but god I feel great

Hey, I just saw your post. You said you feel great taking Kava Kava. How often do you take it and do you still feel great taking it? Also, did it lower your tinnitus? I'm very curious.

 

[valeri]

I tried it and it didn't do anything for anxiety let alone tinnitus.
There is a small number of people who need to take it for a long time to break that barrier when it starts working.

 

[GBB]

My experience is that Kava is about 5% as relaxing as a benzo, so if a benzo gives you relief this might give you 5% as much :-P

Assuming you get a high-quality product made only of the root of the plant, then this may be incorrect. The studies showing hepatoxicity were based on products made of the entire plant including the leaves --which were not part of the preparation when Kava was used by indigenous people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20720265

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3269575/

I probably wouldn't suggest consuming a Kava product to someone with impaired liver function, but based on the data available my feeling is that a mug of Kava tea is probably significantly less hepatoxic than having a couple beers.

Wait, what? AFAIK, there's a sweet spot above which you just get sick, not more sedated. I do not believe this substance has any similarity to cannabis; cannabis is a strong mind drug, Kava is an extremely mild and mostly body-based drug. You can sort of get into a weird visual hypnagogic state with it, but the same can be said of benadryl...

Weirdly this actually seems to work for me. I've been trying the sort of natural benzo "analogues" to measure their effect on my tinnitus. In terms of effect, I would say in order of magnitude: 1) Kava 2) Valerian 3) Distant third is Passion Flower.

Do you think Kava/Valerian would have the same tolerance issues that benzos have, whereby you'd end up making your tinnitus worse over the long run with regular administration? Kava seems to create additional GABA receptors rather than bind, so no idea what influence that would have on up/down regulation.

 

[Lane]

Do you think Kava/Valerian would have the same tolerance issues that benzos have

@GBB -- My understanding is that when taking virtually any type of therapeutic herb, it's best to take regular breaks from it. As I recall, if you take an herb for 6 months, then abstain for 1-2 months or so before starting it again. I like to take a break from all the supplements I take, and vary the types of breaks I take. Sometimes I'll skip once a week, other times I'll break for a week or two. I think it's always good to mix things up a bit. It can help to determine what is actually working, and what may have become unnecessary, or even detrimental.

 

[GBB]

@GBB -- My understanding is that when taking virtually any type of therapeutic herb, it's best to take regular breaks from it. As I recall, if you take an herb for 6 months, then abstain for 1-2 months or so before starting it again. I like to take a break from all the supplements I take, and vary the types of breaks I take. Sometimes I'll skip once a week, other times I'll break for a week or two. I think it's always good to mix things up a bit. It can help to determine what is actually working, and what may have become unnecessary, or even detrimental.

Thanks, that's a great point. I do wonder what would happen if I became reliant on these natural GABA agents and then suddenly got off. My fear is I would enter a mini-withdrawal coupled with tinnitus spikes, but I don't have a lot of good options. I'm really tired of grinding every day just to get through each hour...

 

[Lane]

I do wonder what would happen if I became reliant on these natural GABA agents and then suddenly got off.

@GBB -- I think that's a valid concern. I think it's always wise to tread slowly and carefully, especially when we're dealing with brain neurotransmitters. Perhaps try incremental doses for a while, all the while occasionally taking a short break to see if abstaining changes things significantly. I do know however, that some people can take very high doses of vitamins and only get great benefits.

Some people with severe OCD disorders have overcome them with high doses of Inositol, a B vitamin. Others have gotten significant relief from schizophrenia by taking high doses of niacin. That said, some people aren't able to. So it's always an individual thing. But I think these kinds of experiments with "natural remedies" are a prudent path forward, and far safer than the traditional drug routes most people take (though I do believe prudent drug use has its place as well).

 

[linearb]

Weirdly this actually seems to work for me. I've been trying the sort of natural benzo "analogues" to measure their effect on my tinnitus. In terms of effect, I would say in order of magnitude: 1) Kava 2) Valerian 3) Distant third is Passion Flower.

Do you think Kava/Valerian would have the same tolerance issues that benzos have, whereby you'd end up making your tinnitus worse over the long run with regular administration? Kava seems to create additional GABA receptors rather than bind, so no idea what influence that would have on up/down regulation.

It's worth noting that I do take benzos regularly and I'm not convinced it's making my tinnitus worse. (I was also previously on them for ~6 years straight, and did not feel my tinnitus was any different post-withdrawal than pre). It might be! I'll get back to you in some years, I guess?

The bigger risk with benzos is tolerance and the idea that it might stop working, leaving one with a hellish withdrawal to endure, followed by no longer having whatever relief benzos provided. That's scary and shitty, but living with that reality, so far, has been more tolerable to me than not being on benzos.

Caveat aside: I have seen one medical account of an elderly man who had used high dose, daily valerian for years, abruptly stopped because he was hospitalized for an unrelated condition, and in the hospital developed seizures which were attributed to abrupt withdrawal from Valerian. However -- aside from that one case in the medical lit, I haven't found much in the way of serious issues.

Kava is harder to estimate; as mentioned, it does seem to have complex pharmacology that includes upregulation.

Passionflower seems like the weakest of these and I never noticed any effect from it.

My suspicion is that anything which makes you feel better on a consistent basis will have some kind of tolerance and withdrawal associated with it, but, none of these herbal options are anywhere near as potent or tightly binding as benzodiazepines, so I wouldn't be especially worried about it unless you're taking a bottle of Valerian every night.

 

[GBB]

It's worth noting that I do take benzos regularly and I'm not convinced it's making my tinnitus worse. (I was also previously on them for ~6 years straight, and did not feel my tinnitus was any different post-withdrawal than pre). It might be! I'll get back to you in some years, I guess?

The bigger risk with benzos is tolerance and the idea that it might stop working, leaving one with a hellish withdrawal to endure, followed by no longer having whatever relief benzos provided. That's scary and shitty, but living with that reality, so far, has been more tolerable to me than not being on benzos.

Caveat aside: I have seen one medical account of an elderly man who had used high dose, daily valerian for years, abruptly stopped because he was hospitalized for an unrelated condition, and in the hospital developed seizures which were attributed to abrupt withdrawal from Valerian. However -- aside from that one case in the medical lit, I haven't found much in the way of serious issues.

Kava is harder to estimate; as mentioned, it does seem to have complex pharmacology that includes upregulation.

Passionflower seems like the weakest of these and I never noticed any effect from it.

My suspicion is that anything which makes you feel better on a consistent basis will have some kind of tolerance and withdrawal associated with it, but, none of these herbal options are anywhere near as potent or tightly binding as benzodiazepines, so I wouldn't be especially worried about it unless you're taking a bottle of Valerian every night.

Thanks - that's great that you haven't had any worsening of your tinnitus from benzos. If I had that guarantee for x period of time, I'd take it no questions asked. My fear - and given it hasn't happened to you it isn't likely, is that benzos provide relief but actually raise my baseline in the long run, and then I end up even worse than where I started. I wish I could do some sort of test to understand how I might react - at the moment I'm holding out, but I have a dream job offer expiring in February at McKinsey, and it's really tempting to just say okay I'll take that job for a year and just do Xanax or Clonazepam to try to make it through.

It's really a crappy decision I was hoping to avoid by healing up before the deadline, but that doesn't look likely.

 

[linearb]

My fear - and given it hasn't happened to you it isn't likely, is that benzos provide relief but actually raise my baseline in the long run, and then I end up even worse than where I started.

It's a catch-22 for sure. On the other hand -- over a long enough period of time most people will suffer some amount of additional hearing loss which can (sometimes, it seems like) also increase your baseline, so you end up with a real issue of not know what did what.

I will say that before I went back on Klonopin I was feeling kind of burned out and stuck; I was not happy with my job but also unsure of my cognitive abilities to take on new development challenges. Since going back on Klonopin I have changed jobs twice including a scary, rocky jump as my last shop sort of fireballed while COVID-19 was exploding around us, and what I am doing now is as technical as anything I've ever done. I am not confident I would have made these decisions or succeeded to the extent I have without benzos. I really wish that wasn't the case. However, again -- I was on this garbage from the age of ~18/19-25 or so, and that may have wired some things in my brain to not work as well without it, who knows.

I would be more suspicious that people on benzos for tinnitus get sloppy about protection and that causes worsening. I can see a bunch of mechanisms by which benzo withdrawal can make tinnitus worse -- and some people do report it as an acute side effect of the drug, oddly. Who knows, basically, it's all a crapshoot, wish I could be more helpful :-/

 

[GBB]

It's a catch-22 for sure. On the other hand -- over a long enough period of time most people will suffer some amount of additional hearing loss which can (sometimes, it seems like) also increase your baseline, so you end up with a real issue of not know what did what.

I will say that before I went back on Klonopin I was feeling kind of burned out and stuck; I was not happy with my job but also unsure of my cognitive abilities to take on new development challenges. Since going back on Klonopin I have changed jobs twice including a scary, rocky jump as my last shop sort of fireballed while COVID-19 was exploding around us, and what I am doing now is as technical as anything I've ever done. I am not confident I would have made these decisions or succeeded to the extent I have without benzos. I really wish that wasn't the case. However, again -- I was on this garbage from the age of ~18/19-25 or so, and that may have wired some things in my brain to not work as well without it, who knows.

I would be more suspicious that people on benzos for tinnitus get sloppy about protection and that causes worsening. I can see a bunch of mechanisms by which benzo withdrawal can make tinnitus worse -- and some people do report it as an acute side effect of the drug, oddly. Who knows, basically, it's all a crapshoot, wish I could be more helpful :-/

Thanks, it's useful to know someone is doing this successfully. I agree that when you get temporary relief, you can underestimate the tinnitus and end up doing more damage - I've done this once already, so will have to just treat the ears like royalty regardless.

 

[GBB]

I can confirm Kava works to reduce my tinnitus.

 

[Flyingsheep]

I can confirm Kava works to reduce my tinnitus.

Which brand and how much do you take?

 

[Croaker]

I can confirm Kava works to reduce my tinnitus.

You only have normal tinnitus + reactive tinnitus, correct? No visual snow, pain/loudness hyperacusis, tensor tympani spasming, ear fullness, etc.

 

[FGG]

This is probably not a bad thing to try. And it's awesome you are having so much success with it, @GBB. Keep us posted.

Overall, this seems safer than Benzos and on some islands, like Fiji, almost everyone uses it at least semi regularly (some people have occasionally reported liver damage from it, though, so I especially wouldn't drink with it).

A suggestion though: I have had Kava that was made the traditional way years ago (before tinnitus) and also taken Kava pills. I couldn't "feel" anything with the pills but when it was made from the powder in a Tanoa and soaked for a long time and then strained (i.e. made the "traditional way"), I could feel complete tranquility and a different mental state. It just felt much different and I could tell I was getting the full effect vs the pill which did nothing though I only took one.

Part of me wonders if some people would get a better reaction from traditional Kava.

I would try it myself but I am concerned it could worsen visual snow since it has ion channel effects.

 

[weab00]

It's supposedly bad for your liver, right.

 

[GBB]

You only have normal tinnitus + reactive tinnitus, correct? No visual snow, pain/loudness hyperacusis, tensor tympani spasming, ear fullness, etc.

I have tinnitus and reactive tinnitus. Rarely I get ache/burning in my ears - so maybe mild hyperacusis. I do find many noises uncomfortably loud but appreciate that is not such a burden to bare.

 

[GBB]

It's supposedly bad for your liver, right.

This is a concern and I'm going to get blood work done. Of course many people have no issues, but a small amount do, and they are serious when they manifest.

 

[GBB]

Which brand and how much do you take?

I use the below. I take 1 pill and feel the effects after about an hour.

Gaia Herbs Kava Kava Root, Vegan Liquid Capsules, 60 Count - Supports Emotional Balance, Calm & Relaxation, Guaranteed Potency 75mg Active Kavalactones

 

[Croaker]

It's supposedly bad for your liver, right.

Not if you get the right stuff. I will be posting my experiences when I try two varieties of micronized powder from a popular vendor this weekend.

 

[GBB]

This is probably not a bad thing to try. And it's awesome you are having so much success with it, @GBB. Keep us posted.

Overall, this seems safer than Benzos and on some islands, like Fiji, almost everyone uses it at least semi regularly (some people have occasionally reported liver damage from it, though, so I especially wouldn't drink with it).

A suggestion though: I have had Kava that was made the traditional way years ago (before tinnitus) and also taken Kava pills. I couldn't "feel" anything with the pills but when it was made from the powder in a Tanoa and soaked for a long time and then strained (i.e. made the "traditional way"), I could feel complete tranquility and a different mental state. It just felt much different and I could tell I was getting the full effect vs the pill which did nothing though I only took one.

Part of me wonders if some people would get a better reaction from traditional Kava.

I would try it myself but I am concerned it could worsen visual snow since it has ion channel effects.

I'm going to switch to the drink when my pills run out, as I've been told it should be safer.

Appreciate you have other concerns re visual snow - I just wanted to post because I've gone through a few things, most notably BPC-157 and Pramipexole which had an effect that was transient or unreliable. I've been taking Kava 2 days on 1 day off for about 3 weeks. It's the only thing I've found that reliably reduces volume and smooths the sound for me. I can feel it working after about an hour and when I don't take it I'm disappointingly but predictably saddened to find my tinnitus has increased back to its normal baseline. I should note I am a very strong responder to Xanax re my tinnitus volume, which is what set me on the path of looking for benzo alternatives, so if one is not a strong responder to benzos, this may not work either.

 

[weab00]

Is this really a wonder pill? Like you can just take it like tea everyday and be zen? Sounds too good to be true.

 

[Born To Slay]

I'm going to switch to the drink when my pills run out, as I've been told it should be safer.

Appreciate you have other concerns re visual snow - I just wanted to post because I've gone through a few things, most notably BPC-157 and Pramipexole which had an effect that was transient or unreliable. I've been taking Kava 2 days on 1 day off for about 3 weeks. It's the only thing I've found that reliably reduces volume and smooths the sound for me. I can feel it working after about an hour and when I don't take it I'm disappointingly but predictably saddened to find my tinnitus has increased back to its normal baseline. I should note I am a very strong responder to Xanax re my tinnitus volume, which is what set me on the path of looking for benzo alternatives, so if one is not a strong responder to benzos, this may not work either.

Was Kava as effective as Xanax for you?

 

[GBB]

Was Kava as effective as Xanax for you?

No but it has a reliable effect nonetheless. For tinnitus, that's pretty damn rare. I'd say it takes the volume down about 2 points out of 10 and somehow "smooths" the sound, making what remains not as intrusive. It's not perfect but I'll take it.

Xanax was more like a 4 point reduction and I couldn't care less about the remaining noise.