Kava Kava for Tinnitus — Post Your Experience!
- Thread starter JasonP
- Start date
Member- May 2, 2020
- 202
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2019 T, 04/2020 H
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headphones/Car Alarm/Immune Response?
It's poorly studied and has a bunch of different psychoactive chemicals, so as @FGG pointed out there are risks. However, its ability to affect potassium channels among other things is exactly why I'm going for it.
Well guys, I just bought a batch of Kava Kava so we'll see what happens, I'm hoping to see some improvement in noxacusis since it reacts quite strongly to liquor and Phenibut.
@FGG also said that she wasn't going to try it because of her visual snow syndrome, which we also both have. I would be hesitant to try it because of the potential for worsening the visual snow syndrome, but if you guinea pig it and it works out I'll buy some.
If you're serious about liver health, I wouldn't bother with a blood test for liver health, as this only measures liver damage (reflected by enzyme rise).
See if you can get a liver detox profile, which gives way more information about your specific liver detox pathways, and how any supplements you are taking are affecting their efficacy. It also detects early changes, that precede enzyme changes.
You may need an integrative doctor or naturopath to do this.
- May 27, 2020
- 556
- Tinnitus Since
- 2007
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud music/headphones/concerts - Hyperacusis from motorbike
I speculated in a recent comment from the synapse disconnection thread that calcium channel blockers could help with hyperacusis, so it's interesting to me that someone has had a positive experience from a combined calcium channel blocker/potassium channel potentiator for their tinnitus. Whether it's all down to the potassium channel potentiation and not the calcium channel blocking I can't say, but I've copy-pasted that post again down below as I didn't get much feedback at the time and would be interested to see now what others think.
"I wonder what the consequences of having smaller/larger ribbon sizes are? Would I be right in guessing that a larger ribbon size would mean there's a greater chance of synapsing the OHCs to the type II afferents?
I've been giving more and more thought to this inverse relationship Fuchs alluded to between the type 1 and 2 afferents post noise exposure. I want to bring to everyone's attention this passage from the zebrafish study:
"decreasing voltage-gated Ca2+ influx through CaV1.3 channels during development led to the formation of ... larger ribbons. Furthermore, in mouse knockouts of CaV1.3, auditory outer hair cells have reduced afferent innervation and synapse number."
For those who don't know, a knock-out mouse is a mouse that's been genetically engineered to not have a particular gene by disrupting it with a piece of artificial DNA. So these mice were genetically engineered to not have the voltage-dependent calcium channel and the result was less afferent innervation and synapse numbers, suggesting that the calcium channels play an important role in regulating the synapse numbers. If we know from the recently released Fuchs study that synapse numbers of OHCs increase after noise exposure, this would suggest that noise exposure disrupts the function of the calcium channel in the complete opposite manner than that seen in the knock out mouse. I also recall from Liberman's work that IHCs in the high frequency region of the mouse cochlea have enlarged ribbons immediately after noise, followed by synapse loss.
So where I am going with this? In short, I am inferring that the dysfunctional Cav1.3 calcium channels may be the smoking gun here with regards to what's causing our hyperacusis. I've had a quick look online to see what other diseases and conditions are caused by dysfunctional Cav1.3 calcium channels and the biggest one seems to be Parkinson's, which is sometimes treated with calcium channel blockers. Interestingly, the zebrafish study has something to say here:
"Recent work in mice has investigated the role of the MCU in noise-related hearing loss. This work demonstrated that pharmacological block or a loss of function mutation in MCU protected against synapse loss in auditory inner hair cells after noise exposure".
I just wonder: could a calcium channel blocker, such as a Parkinson's-prescribed drug, help us with our symptoms?
Would love to get some feedback on this and I again encourage everyone to read this zebrafish study!"
I've been giving more and more thought to this inverse relationship Fuchs alluded to between the type 1 and 2 afferents post noise exposure. I want to bring to everyone's attention this passage from the zebrafish study:
"decreasing voltage-gated Ca2+ influx through CaV1.3 channels during development led to the formation of ... larger ribbons. Furthermore, in mouse knockouts of CaV1.3, auditory outer hair cells have reduced afferent innervation and synapse number."
For those who don't know, a knock-out mouse is a mouse that's been genetically engineered to not have a particular gene by disrupting it with a piece of artificial DNA. So these mice were genetically engineered to not have the voltage-dependent calcium channel and the result was less afferent innervation and synapse numbers, suggesting that the calcium channels play an important role in regulating the synapse numbers. If we know from the recently released Fuchs study that synapse numbers of OHCs increase after noise exposure, this would suggest that noise exposure disrupts the function of the calcium channel in the complete opposite manner than that seen in the knock out mouse. I also recall from Liberman's work that IHCs in the high frequency region of the mouse cochlea have enlarged ribbons immediately after noise, followed by synapse loss.
So where I am going with this? In short, I am inferring that the dysfunctional Cav1.3 calcium channels may be the smoking gun here with regards to what's causing our hyperacusis. I've had a quick look online to see what other diseases and conditions are caused by dysfunctional Cav1.3 calcium channels and the biggest one seems to be Parkinson's, which is sometimes treated with calcium channel blockers. Interestingly, the zebrafish study has something to say here:
"Recent work in mice has investigated the role of the MCU in noise-related hearing loss. This work demonstrated that pharmacological block or a loss of function mutation in MCU protected against synapse loss in auditory inner hair cells after noise exposure".
I just wonder: could a calcium channel blocker, such as a Parkinson's-prescribed drug, help us with our symptoms?
Would love to get some feedback on this and I again encourage everyone to read this zebrafish study!"
"lol"
Tried finding this in Europe / Holland but Kava Kava is illegal with the warning that "Kava Kava can be very dangerous to health, that's why it is forbidden in Europe since 2002"
Even in Holland - the country that is discussing legalizing cocaine and heroin...
What gives?
Tried finding this in Europe / Holland but Kava Kava is illegal with the warning that "Kava Kava can be very dangerous to health, that's why it is forbidden in Europe since 2002"
Even in Holland - the country that is discussing legalizing cocaine and heroin...
What gives?
There was a rash of reports of liver damage/failure attributable to Kava a few decades ago. Since then much of that data has been revised, and some countries have reversed the prior ban (US, Canada), though the EU has not.
Can Kava Supplements Kill Your Pain?
Interesting stuff here regarding kava and pain:
Interesting stuff here regarding kava and pain:
"Different types of pain respond to different types of treatments. Kava extracts have been used to significantly reduce chronic nociceptive pain, a type of pain that is felt when nerve cells are stimulated by harm to the body, rather than when they are directly infected or injured. Specifically, nociceptive pain may be felt when receptors throughout the body detect damage to skin, muscles, bones, or connective tissue, and then send pain signals to the brain and central nervous system. Kava has been to help reduce nocioceptive pain, as well as orofacial pain, which is chronic pain that is localized above the neck, in front of the ears, and below the centerline of the eyes, and includes the area inside the mouth.
Proponents of herbal medications also recommend kava to help relieve joint pain, back pain, muscle spasms, migraine headaches, and neuralgia associated with cystic fibrosis. Other active ingredients extracted from the kava plant, known as flavokawains, are being studied in laboratories for their anticancer effects, and have been specifically examined in studies linked to lung, prostate, colon, and bladder cancers."
Proponents of herbal medications also recommend kava to help relieve joint pain, back pain, muscle spasms, migraine headaches, and neuralgia associated with cystic fibrosis. Other active ingredients extracted from the kava plant, known as flavokawains, are being studied in laboratories for their anticancer effects, and have been specifically examined in studies linked to lung, prostate, colon, and bladder cancers."
I'm very eager to try this supplement. The one caveat holding me back is the potential for visual snow syndrome worsening. Can someone comment on this? Is that speculation based on Trobalt?
@FGG?
I ordered Kava ground root. Going to try straining it myself to make the drink. I don't have visual snow so I'm not too worried about that.
I'm going to see if it helps mitigate the severe spikes I experience on a regular basis, since Clonazepam certainly does but I will only take it as a nuclear option.
I'm going to see if it helps mitigate the severe spikes I experience on a regular basis, since Clonazepam certainly does but I will only take it as a nuclear option.
For me personally, I'm just extra cautious with things without a relatively unknown mechanism of action (or unknown aspects). It's not specifically any ion channel/ Trobalt connection. Even BPC-157 worsened my visual snow so I'm just especially cautious.
I tend to be sensitive to things in general - maybe that is true with Kava as well.
- May 2, 2020
- 202
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2019 T, 04/2020 H
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headphones/Car Alarm/Immune Response?
- May 2, 2020
- 202
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2019 T, 04/2020 H
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headphones/Car Alarm/Immune Response?
So, there's instant which is powdered undried Kava. It's the most expensive, easiest to prepare, and unlikely to cause nausea. Some say instant Kava is less potent on average.
There's medium grind which you prepare the traditional way with kneading and straining. This is the most cost effective, safest, and least nasty option.
Apparently some high end grinds can actually taste good if you make it right. However, you have to buy a whole kit and learn to make it, which means people often struggle to get a strong drink at first.
I want to immediately know whether this stuff affects me, so I bought the last option: micronized, which is ground and filtered dried root. This way is also simple to prepare like instant, and it's easy to get a consistent dose, but it's the most likely to cause nausea and dry skin. I figure if the micronized samples work for me then I'll get into preparing the drink the traditional way.
It usually lasts a full day for me - also I forgot to mention, when I take it day over day over day the effect builds, so taking it three days in a row seems to produce a greater effect than the first day alone. I've never done more than three days in a row.
It is often anecdotally stated that is has a reverse tolerance, meaning the longer one consumes the drink, the more efficacious it becomes. It seems to slightly follow this pattern for me, based on my limited experience.
In another comment I think I expressed a contrary view, that it was merely reliable, but that the effect did not build, though the last few days I have noticed an increase in potency which seems to grow with each day.
To provide an example, generally I can hear my tinnitus over the television, however the last few days in my living room I have needed to search for it, and sometimes if I don't search for it, can wholly ignore any remnant such that it is essentially out of my mind.
In my silent bedroom, 30 dB, it has morphed into a sound where I know something is there, and it is not perfect silence, but it is so "smooth" and "frictionless" at times that I really don't mind what remains.
I've had bad days too where the drink merely provided some palliative reduction, but on the whole the sound remained, but I have never taken it and not noticed some form of easing in the tinnitus.
I used to take a Xanax once a week as an escape, but noticed today I haven't taken one in three weeks, without consciously thinking about it. For me that's a powerful thing.
- May 2, 2020
- 202
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2019 T, 04/2020 H
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headphones/Car Alarm/Immune Response?
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
I found this on polish site:
https://www.muscle-zone.pl/lepsze-samopoczucie/kava-kava-120-caps
Do you think it's the same potency as the one from United States? It says 250mg per capsule.
https://www.muscle-zone.pl/lepsze-samopoczucie/kava-kava-120-caps
Do you think it's the same potency as the one from United States? It says 250mg per capsule.
Which vendor did you buy from? And you're saying that the traditional kneading method has the least amount of side effects (nausea & dry skin)?
- May 2, 2020
- 202
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2019 T, 04/2020 H
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headphones/Car Alarm/Immune Response?
Kalm with Kava. Yes, since that way you're consuming the fewest root fibers. Micronized is supposedly kind of pulpy. My package is still stuck in the USPS holiday abyss so I don't know when I'll be able to verify that.
