Ketamine Relieves Depression by Restoring Brain Connections

[kingsfan]

I have done the inpatient Ketamine procedure 5 times. It does nothing for tinnitus. Sure wish it did...

Did you have it done specifically for tinnitus? I'm wondering if some of the places that actually advertise for tinnitus use a different volume/concentration than for depression.

 

[Spiral]

I have done the inpatient Ketamine procedure 5 times. It does nothing for tinnitus. Sure wish it did...

Does it work for depression at least?

 

[rid0871]

Did you have it done specifically for tinnitus? I'm wondering if some of the places that actually advertise for tinnitus use a different volume/concentration than for depression.

I had it done for lower back pain, which it did not help for. I also did not feel it did anything for depression.

 

[bobthebuilder]

I have done the inpatient Ketamine procedure 5 times. It does nothing for tinnitus. Sure wish it did...

Corroborates my experience with intravenous Ketamine. No impact on the tinnitus during the infusion, followed by a spike in tinnitus afterwards that resolved to pre-infusion baseline after a few days.

For those asking about where to get it done / how to pay for it, sign up for the clinical trial if you can. Resurrecting an old post in this thread below with the link.

The downside is that you have to be in an MRI during the infusion, though I had earplugs and earmuffs and didn't find the machine noise to be bothersome. Unclear whether my tinnitus spike afterwards was a temporary side effect of the ketamine or just noise sensitivity to the MRI noises during the scan - but given all the hearing protection I had, I lean towards the former.

This study was introduced to me by a colleague of mine who has suffered with intrusive tinnitus since 2014. I searched around on the forum and have not come across any details or awareness of this particular study so I thought I'd share it. If this has been discussed before, my apologies and please have it merged with any ongoing thread.

That said, Columbia University Department of Psychiatry in New York City is currently performing Phase 2 trials investigating the effect of ketamine on tinnitus and it appears that it is on a rolling recruitment cycle. Considering I live in the area, I provided them with my contact information this afternoon and am currently awaiting for them to get in touch regarding trial info and requirements. If I get any feedback from them, I'll provide updates with any details I receive.

Link for the Columbia University Medial Martinez Lab:
https://www.columbiapsychiatry.org/research-labs/martinez-lab

Link for Clinical Trial Information:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03336398

Heads up for anyone interested: the trial does require two MRI scans. I know there is a lot of hesitation when it comes to MRI's on this forum, and for good reason, but I think it's a chance I would personally be willing to take as there have been anecdotal reports of ketamine potentially impacting the pitch and loudness of tinnitus in a positive way.

FYI I recently had a similar experience with intravenous Lidocaine, though that actually "muffled" both my tinnitus and lowered my hearing thresholds during the infusion. Everything sounded farther away while I was on it. Hearing returned to normal pretty quickly after the infusion, but my tinnitus spiked and only returned to pre-infusion baseline after a week and half (though my pre-infusion baseline is now much higher that it was back when I tried Ketamine.)

Disappointing but hopefully they are learning things about tinnitus from these studies that will help.

 

[kingsfan]

I had mentioned in another Ketamine thread that I had called the Arizona Ketamine Clinic, which advertises Ketamine for tinnitus and was told the doctor is no longer doing infusions for tinnitus as he found it was not successful in his patients.

Sounds like a pretty good answer to the use of Ketamine infusions for tinnitus.

I don't think this rules out Ketamine and other psychedelics, just Ketamine infusion.

 

[Ela Stefan]

I just wanted to loop back and say when I lower my Keppra dosage, it seems like night and day now, so it has provided some benefit. The more chaotic tinnitus seems to stabilize into continuous noise which is far preferable in my opinion. It goes from sounding like I'm on a battlefield to more of a varied but much more stable shhhhhhhhhhh.

Now I have to point out my tinnitus is very weird. I am one of (not trying to make myself sound special) the only people I have seen that literally has cycling noise, whereby sets of noise are mutually exclusive. I still don't really know what triggers that. So YMMV.

Hi, GBB! Do you still take Keppra? How long did you take it for? How did you work up your dosage?

 

[PolarSun]

IV is through a clinic run by an anesthesiologist. I met God on 600 mg and it was done for pain. Top 6 experience of my life. Very light ringing after that. Since then I have done 6 more infusions ranging from 60 mg to 100 mg. I did go into a sort of K-hole each time except for the 60 mg. I could hear the tinnitus as I was dissociated but didn't care and didn't care after. Not like marijuana where if it goes crazy I freak out. We tried adding Propofol and Reglan for dopamine but that didn't seem to make a difference. Sometimes my tinnitus would be loud after and sometimes quiet after a session. Great though for dealing with stress and things you didn't know you had to face in life. Money kept me from going for maintenance doses.

Nasal spray I don't remember much of. It made me groggy the next day. It didn't affect tinnitus one way or the other. I called compounding pharmacy and asked for the names of local doctors that prescribe Ketamine. Troches at 30 mg seemed to help. 200 mg I can definitely hear the tinnitus easier. Again almost like when smoking marijuana but without fearing it. You just accept it. Now why would I go up to 200 mg? Because it helps me more mentally. Mental health is the most important thing. Gonna have to make piece with tinnitus. Can't make piece with not facing my emotional demons. I got them through same doctor. Never K-holed on troches as the bioavailability is like 25% at best which equals 50 mg IV. And you better get it in the pours of your mouth or you are going to get a dud night.

I also have Ketamine cream for muscles. I am moving to a mixture with Flexeril from Baclofen. I can't prove it but I felt like the Baclofen got into my bloodstream and really cranked up the tinnitus.

Hopefully that helps answers your questions.

Do you have hyperacusis and/or does the Ketamine make you more light/sound sensitive?

 

[Nick47]

NMDA antagonist mentioned earlier in the thread. New update:

Axsome Therapeutics Announces AXS-05 Achieves Primary Endpoint in the ACCORD Phase 3 Trial in Alzheimer's Disease Agitation

 

[KoolKat]

NMDA antagonist mentioned earlier in the thread. New update:

Axsome Therapeutics Announces AXS-05 Achieves Primary Endpoint in the ACCORD Phase 3 Trial in Alzheimer's Disease Agitation

That's amazing man. So what is your prediction, when will this be used for tinnitus?

 

[Nick47]

So what is your prediction, when will this be used for tinnitus?

It may be no use at all, just fits into this category of drugs investigated.

 

[momus]

Gabapentin causing visual snow

Odd, everything I read is about Gabapentin being prescribed FOR visual snow, not causing it. Government studies say "To our knowledge, visual field impairment in patients taking Gabapentin has not previously been reported".

 

[momus]

A recent study has showed that it looks like Ketamine is actually restoring brain connections.

Take that w/ a grain of salt, and even if it did, there is zero evidence it would help people w/ tinnitus. The brain can repair brain connections (up to a point and over time) by itself. When we look at this, the words we see are "believed to be", "theory"," in mice", "can" vs does, "potentially", stuff like that. Beware of results from ONE study too, there have to be professionally administered clinical trials, and I don't think that has been done at all. Everyone's brain is different too, and our brains change throughout our lives.

 

[SmallRonnie]

That's amazing man. So what is your prediction, when will this be used for tinnitus?

Why would this get rid of tinnitus? Because it's similar to Ketamine?

Ketamine is well known to give people temporary tinnitus while they are high. I can't imagine how it would get rid of tinnitus.

There's a large amount of anecdotal accounts of people who got Ketamine treatment for depression while also having tinnitus and I haven't seen one person say it made their tinnitus better but loads of people say it gets temporarily worse, or else they don't even have tinnitus normally but get it when on Ketamine.

The antidepressant effects might inadvertently make tinnitus better though, in the same way other treatments that boost mood do.

When I received Ketamine treatment myself, it had no effect on my tinnitus.

 

[dd314]

That is exactly what it should do, theoretically. However when I tried Memantine, another NMDA antagonist, it did the opposite. This effect stopped 1 day after discontinuing.

Did Memantine make your tinnitus worse?

 

[SmallRonnie]

Just want to add that I received Ketamine treatment again and it made my tinnitus temporarily louder again but it went back to normal when the drug wore off.

The antidepressant effects are good though. It really helps you put everything in your life in perspective all at once in a way that nothing else can.

 

[GBB]

Did Memantine make your tinnitus worse?

After waking up with that spike from one pill, I never took it again. The spike went away.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

Some years ago a psychiatrist put me on Zoloft. After 36 hours I felt like Catherine Deneuve in Polansky's "Repulsion", when she was going completely insane all alone in that apartment.

I actually saw shadows moving in the periphery of my vision, and had jolts of panic that resembled the figure in Munch's "The Scream."

Later, a genetic test revealed that my metabolism could not process the Zoloft, so it backed up in my system. This was in fact true for almost all antidepressants.

Here was another dead end regarding something that would give me any potential relief.

After over 9 years of this, insofar as habituation is concerned, I find myself in the position that Paul Fussell found himself in when he described the relentless combat he experienced during World War II:

"We came to understand what more have known than spoken of, that normally each man begins with a certain full reservoir, or bank account, of bravery, but that each time it's called upon, some is expended, never to be regained. After several months it all has been expended, and it's time for your breakdown."​

This describes the current state of all of my "coping mechanisms."

 

[Lane]

After 36 hours I felt like Catherine Deneuve in Polansky's "Repulsion", when she was going completely insane all alone in that apartment.

Hi @DaveFromChicago -- That actually sounds pretty similar to when I took the single dose of Promethazine that gave me my tinnitus five years ago. Ever since then I've been looking for ways to calm my brain and nervous system down. I recently started taking a supplement (drug) called methylene blue, which seems to be bringing some stability back to my brain and nervous system. In case you're interested, I posted about it HERE. -- Take care!