Kevin Hogan Recovered After 2.5 Years

[Louise]

Thanks Joe

 

[joe]

Please remember that Tinnitus is natural process of our auditory system. If you starve a normals persons hearing long enough, plug their ears or put them in a silent room, they also will hear high pitch T. It goes away soon as they get back the signal, un plug their ears or go back into the noise environment. Tinnitus will diminish if people could restore wear and tear of the inner ear I hope you understand what I mean.

 

[Louise]

I do. And I've now tried most of the ways to repair/change neurology

 

[click]

How is your tinnitus now Joe? I remember you not being able to try tinnex injections (because of blood pressure?) - just wondered whether your T has changed / diminished etc.?

 

[joe]

Hi click, I have good and bad days, some days I can barely hear it here's some info and they still recommend Tinnex, also known as caroverine
http://www.nosesinus.com/Clinical-Services/noise-in-the-ear-tinnitus

 

[Louise]

Joe, do you think the HBO helped you a lot? I've done some sessions recently but not close enough together.

 

[joe]

Louise H.B.O did help. but to benefit from this, it must be done at onset. Your really only 6 months in with your T, i dont wanna raise your hopes, but your still in the window of it can go away on its own?
How did you get your T?

 

[Karl]

Do you rate that better than Mirtazapine Joe? I was undecided between asking for Mirtazapine or Venlafaxine and went for Mirtazapine because there are no recordings of it causing tinnitus, as some other ADs do.

Louise -
I take Mirtazepan, which is sold by the brand name Remeron. It definitely does not cause any tinnitus. I love Remeron, because I sleep very well with it.

Years ago I took Paxil. How I hate that drug.

Waldo wrote:

After reading your opinions on some of the following "Anti-Depressant Drugs" Makes me wonder if i should consider any of the above? If so, which one would be best for a person like me that has tinnitus due to loud music. What do you guys recommend i do?

If you have trouble sleeping Mirtazepan/Remeron will help.

*******************************RAMBLING ALERT***********************************
This is how understand the problem: If one ear has cochlear hair damage/loss, the auditory system in the brain tells that ear to "crank up the volume" for a particular frequency. It does this by sending a signal along an efferent nerve leading back to the ear. This signal is interpreted as a frequency associated with the location of cochlear hair damage. Most frequently tinnitus occurs with age due to cochlear hair loss, which is why 27% of people over 64 years old have tinnitus.

Efferent nerves respond to a neurotransmitter called GABA. Benzodiadepine drugs, like clonezapam and Xanax, work on neuron gaba receptors sites, calming these nerves. Many people who take clonezepam experience a marked decrease in their tinnitus volume. That's because the efferent nerve is calming down/lessening the synaptic current back to the ear.

Trouble is, when you take a drug like clonezapam, it is absorbed by the entire brain - not just the offending efferent nerve! This is why people complain about taking drugs like this, because they don't like feeling doped-up, sleepy, blobby. I have read many discussions on the website about "how to boost GABA", as a way to fix tinnitus. Yeah, sure it can be done with benzos taken orally; however, your entire brain will become sluggish. That's the trade off. We can be alert and awake with tinnitus, versus doped-up with less tinnitus.

How can a drug like this be administered only locally, near the ear? If tinnitus researchers could only work on this more. What is the distance from the outside of the head to the cochlear nerves?...Say, one inch? How can we deliver a drug like clonezepam over a distance of one inch to that nerve site? By injecting? By a surgically placed tube behind the ear? Hey, why not, doctors?

I have actually experimented with this (Experiment No. 383): I dissolved some clonezapam in a teaspoon of water, then placed the water behind my ear lobe. I had hoped that it would be absorbed by ear blood vessels (like using a "patch"), and go directly to the nerves leading to my cochlea. Results of Experiment No. 383: False. No change. (Apparently the blood vessels in the ear lobe have no connection to the nerves in the ear.)

If we could somehow get clonezepam applied directly to the offending efferent nerve - Voila'! - temporarily no more tinnitus.

******************************END OF RAMBLING ALERT**************************

(...back to anti-depressants.) I recall reading that Kevin Hogan's program expects you to take quite a bit of clonezepam/Xanax and anti-depressants for about 6 weeks. I suspect this works on two levels: 1. The clonezepam/Xanax should calm down the offending efferent nerve and 2. the anti-depressants should help a person stop focusing on the sound.

A part of the problem of tinnitus is it bothers people the most who have a tendency to dwell on things and freak-out. Perfectionists/people with OCD/people with depressive tendencies have difficulty accepting the new sound. This is how it grows and grows. So it's not just caused entirely by cochlear hair loss, but there is a psychological driving engine, which exacerbates the problem.

Since tinnitus is initiated on a primitive brain level where we have no control, it becomes especially upsetting. We try and try to control this primitive brain thing, but we can't -> this gets us frustrated -> this feeds back to the primitive brain -> we get even more frustrated. The anti-depressants can address this frustration, and get us away from reinforcing the viscous cycle....except Dr. Jastreboff doesn't agree with that approach!

Emminent TRT specialist Dr. Jastreboff, recommends that tinnitus suffers should not take anti-depressants, because it will interfere with TRT therapy. In Jastreboff's TRT book, he explains that the tinnitus patient must understand what is causing tinnitus, and they must think clearly in order to do so. Jastreboff argues that anti-depressants cloud a person's thinking.

So, there you have it: No conclusions?

 

[Louise]

Louise H.B.O did help. but to benefit from this, it must be done at onset. Your really only 6 months in with your T, i dont wanna raise your hopes, but your still in the window of it can go away on its own?
How did you get your T?

Yes, its supposed to be done within 3 months of onset. But I also read something recently that said the chancer are lower if done after 3 months but its still works for 25% of people. The trouble for me with it (besides very bad claustrophobia) is that I think the noise of breathing the oxygen down the tube has made the T worse.

Yes, its 6 months in, I thought I was past the going away on its own now that its considered 'chronic'? I cant see happening anyway. I got it from watching a live band play in a small pub. The music was way too loud, I was stood at the front and realised later with the side of a speaker next to my head. At first it was only the ear at the side of the speaker that was affected then 5 months later the other ear has started with T.

 

[Louise]

Louise -
I take Mirtazepan, which is sold by the brand name Remeron. It definitely does not cause any tinnitus. I love Remeron, because I sleep very well with it.

Years ago I took Paxil. How I hate that drug.

Waldo wrote:


If you have trouble sleeping Mirtazepan/Remeron will help.

*******************************RAMBLING ALERT***********************************
This is how understand the problem: If one ear has cochlear hair damage/loss, the auditory system in the brain tells that ear to "crank up the volume" for a particular frequency. It does this by sending a signal along an efferent nerve leading back to the ear. This signal is interpreted as a frequency associated with the location of cochlear hair damage. Most frequently tinnitus occurs with age due to cochlear hair loss, which is why 27% of people over 64 years old have tinnitus.

Efferent nerves respond to a neurotransmitter called GABA. Benzodiadepine drugs, like clonezapam and Xanax, work on neuron gaba receptors sites, calming these nerves. Many people who take clonezepam experience a marked decrease in their tinnitus volume. That's because the efferent nerve is calming down/lessening the synaptic current back to the ear.

Trouble is, when you take a drug like clonezapam, it is absorbed by the entire brain - not just the offending efferent nerve! This is why people complain about taking drugs like this, because they don't like feeling doped-up, sleepy, blobby. I have read many discussions on the website about "how to boost GABA", as a way to fix tinnitus. Yeah, sure it can be done with benzos taken orally; however, your entire brain will become sluggish. That's the trade off. We can be alert and awake with tinnitus, versus doped-up with less tinnitus.

How can a drug like this be administered only locally, near the ear? If tinnitus researchers could only work on this more. What is the distance from the outside of the head to the cochlear nerves?...Say, one inch? How can we deliver a drug like clonezepam over a distance of one inch to that nerve site? By injecting? By a surgically placed tube behind the ear? Hey, why not, doctors?

I have actually experimented with this (Experiment No. 383): I dissolved some clonezapam in a teaspoon of water, then placed the water behind my ear lobe. I had hoped that it would be absorbed by ear blood vessels (like using a "patch"), and go directly to the nerves leading to my cochlea. Results of Experiment No. 383: False. No change. (Apparently the blood vessels in the ear lobe have no connection to the nerves in the ear.)

If we could somehow get clonezepam applied directly to the offending efferent nerve - Voila'! - temporarily no more tinnitus.

******************************END OF RAMBLING ALERT**************************

(...back to anti-depressants.) I recall reading that Kevin Hogan's program expects you to take quite a bit of clonezepam/Xanax and anti-depressants for about 6 weeks. I suspect this works on two levels: 1. The clonezepam/Xanax should calm down the offending efferent nerve and 2. the anti-depressants should help a person stop focusing on the sound.

A part of the problem of tinnitus is it bothers people the most who have a tendency to dwell on things and freak-out. Perfectionists/people with OCD/people with depressive tendencies have difficulty accepting the new sound. This is how it grows and grows. So it's not just caused entirely by cochlear hair loss, but there is a psychological driving engine, which exacerbates the problem.

Since tinnitus is initiated on a primitive brain level where we have no control, it becomes especially upsetting. We try and try to control this primitive brain thing, but we can't -> this gets us frustrated -> this feeds back to the primitive brain -> we get even more frustrated. The anti-depressants can address this frustration, and get us away from reinforcing the viscous cycle....except Dr. Jastreboff doesn't agree with that approach!

Emminent TRT specialist Dr. Jastreboff, recommends that tinnitus suffers should not take anti-depressants, because it will interfere with TRT therapy. In Jastreboff's TRT book, he explains that the tinnitus patient must understand what is causing tinnitus, and they must think clearly in order to do so. Jastreboff argues that anti-depressants cloud a person's thinking.

So, there you have it: No conclusions?

Hi Karl,

I've been taking Mirtazapine for 2.5 weeks. It doesnt come up in the Ototoxic Drugs book I have as ototoxic (one of the few ADs where this is the case). But, I've read some accounts of people where when they lower the dose they get T in their other unaffected ear or their existing T gets worse. I also read a post by someone that found that it has an antihistamine component and that is ototoxic. I really dont know what to think. I've also read that it can suddently stop working if your body runs out of the building blocks of Serotonin & Norepinephrine.

Is the efferent nerve theory from the Jastreboff TRT book?

I am one of those perfectionist etc people for whom its very difficult. How do you change that though?

 

[Karl]

Louise -
If you've been taking Mirtazapine, that's one of the best. Mine kicked in right away.

I've read there are only a few drugs that are truly "ototoxic". The worst offenders are some antibiotics, which can do serious damage to cochlear hair cells (the antibiotic molecules fit snuggly into those little coclear hair neuron gaps, really messing things up).

What many people think are ototoxic drugs are actually drugs that excite nerves in general, making the tinnitus sound louder, which is a temporary effect. Some people say Zoloft can make tinnitus seem louder, temporarily. Aspirin can cause temporary tinnitus, because it affects a protein called pectin, which the outer hair cells depend on to function correctly.

The efferent nerve theory is analogous to "phantom limb syndrome". Instead of feeling pain from a missing limb, people with tinnitus are listening to a sort of phantom sound, like the gain control in an amplifier turned up to maximum.

All nerves form a circuit: Stimulus (the ear) -> Decision (by the brain) -> Reaction (sent back to the ear). In this case, the "reaction", is a signal from the superior olivary complex back to the cochlea to make the sound louder. But the ear can't make the sound louder because the hairs are damaged, so we listen to noise.

Jastreboff has his own theory about how this whole thing starts. He says is starts with the loss of outer hairs cells. He says the outer hair cells are used to amplify signals. When we lose them, our brains listen harder, but we only get noise.

This is stuff we can't control, because it's at such a fundamental level - which is frustrating. But what is important is to come to some understanding of why it is happening. If you understand it, that's the first step toward making it less threatening.

As hard as it is to accept, through time and neuroplasticity, the brain should adapt. I've been hanging on to my seat for a little over a year now. I have read about other people's success stories, and I believe them. I believe Captain James T. Kirk: "You. Will. Get. Better."

I'm trying not to dwell on this stuff as much as I did the past year. I believe that there are stages of tinnitus we need to go through which all takes time.

 

[joe]

Karl, thanks for filling in, your expert explanation of HBOT is bang on, there's a 3 month window, and some do it whilst taking steroids to max the potentials. I have been working on a neurological theory, if the brain is plastic enough to learn, it's also plastic enough to put thoughts and experiences out of mind. If one could forget about their tinnitus the part of the brain where this emotion is stored would shrink, the result would be smaller or even diminished Tinnitus. I never used to get quiet days until just recently, I had 80 db full blast high pitch every day!!! And I put it down to the vicious cycle of bad thought, until a few weeks before Xmas I traded my negative emotions for positive ones

 

[Louise]

Karl,

I've come across a few theories, I dont know which one to go along with. Maybe they are all right and apply to different types of T and maybe they are all at play together with T. I dont know but I do somehow feel the need to know which is right!! Here are the main ones:

The brain exerts filters on the inner ear to stop us being able to hear, well, the inner ear itself. But when there is hearing loss the brain removes these filters (or some of them) at the site of the hearing loss to enable us to hear more. But, that also means that we can hear the other stuff, the normal background electrical noise of the ear and blood flow etc. The theory is its this normal stuff that we are hearing. Does that go along with what Jastreboff says?

Another theory, that also happens with the mechanism above, is that the auditory cortex is tonopically mapped with neurons attending to particular frequencies and when the sound goes missing from some of those frequencies there then the neurons have nothing to do and so 'chatter' and group together to chatter & mis-fire synchronously and its that which we hear.

Then there's the over-production of glutamate theory which results in all/some of the neurons being overexcited and its that which we hear.

And, nerve damage theory where the nerve screws up the signal (hope this one is wrong).

I'm clinging on to this one Karl " through time and neuroplasticity, the brain should adapt". Its what I've been told by experts in the field too.

 

[Louise]

Karl, thanks for filling in, your expert explanation of HBOT is bang on, there's a 3 month window, and some do it whilst taking steroids to max the potentials. I have been working on a neurological theory, if the brain is plastic enough to learn, it's also plastic enough to put thoughts and experiences out of mind. If one could forget about their tinnitus the part of the brain where this emotion is stored would shrink, the result would be smaller or even diminished Tinnitus. I never used to get quiet days until just recently, I had 80 db full blast high pitch every day!!! And I put it down to the vicious cycle of bad thought, until a few weeks before Xmas I traded my negative emotions for positive ones

Hi Joe, at the HBO centre I go to there was a woman who had T for years who came and got relief from it. She had a real lot of sessions. She started to see it work and carried on until it plateaud. A couple of them were talking about her and its not a made up story or anything. I do think she got lucky though.

I think you are right with what you say about the emotions etc. A lot has been written about thoughts/emotions being a major player in T volume. You're supposed to give it NO attention at all. Or as near to that as you can get. Its a neat trick I havent been able to manage so far. You seem to have found something that works for you now. Are you following some sort of plan? I'm glad you've found something to help you.

 

[Karl]

.... there's a 3 month window, and some do it whilst taking steroids to max the potentials. I have been working on a neurological theory, if the brain is plastic enough to learn, it's also plastic enough to put thoughts and experiences out of mind. If one could forget about their tinnitus the part of the brain where this emotion is stored would shrink, the result would be smaller or even diminished Tinnitus. I never used to get quiet days until just recently, I had 80 db full blast high pitch every day!!! And I put it down to the vicious cycle of bad thought, until a few weeks before Xmas I traded my negative emotions for positive ones

Joe -
That's great that you are getting quiet days. I don't want to "rock my own boat", but I will carefully say that it seems that my tinnitus is becoming more like the sound of a refrigerator. It seems to be losing it's pure tone high frequency component. That high frequency component is the real killer.

Your neurological theory is the principle of TRT, in "Tinnitus Retraining Therapy", by Jastreboff and Hazell. They say the same thing, about the emotional part, which they call the Limbic System. They describe the brain in psychological terminology: Autonomic (controls things like heart beat), Limbic (emotions) and Cortical (perception and evaluation, memory and attention).

On Page 86:
"We cannot directly alter the activity of the autonomic and limbic systems, which results in the annoyance produced by tinnitus. We can only use and indirect approach based on the neuropsychological pricinciple that a stiuation associated with a known danger induces a smaller reation of the autonomic nervous sytem than on associated with a known danger. Therefore, much of TRT ....is devoted to demystifying tinnitus, teaching patients about the mechanisms involved..."

On Page 99:
"If it turns out that this auditory signal is not of any particular importance and does not require any selective reaction, the specific excitation of the autonomic and limbic systms induced by this auditory pattern will weaken and gradually disappear."

Hey, I like that "gradually disappear" part. Sounds good to me.

 

[Karl]

Karl,

I've come across a few theories, I dont know which one to go along with. Maybe they are all right and apply to different types of T and maybe they are all at play together with T. I dont know but I do somehow feel the need to know which is right!! Here are the main ones:

The brain exerts filters on the inner ear to stop us being able to hear, well, the inner ear itself. But when there is hearing loss the brain removes these filters (or some of them) at the site of the hearing loss to enable us to hear more. But, that also means that we can hear the other stuff, the normal background electrical noise of the ear and blood flow etc. The theory is its this normal stuff that we are hearing. Does that go along with what Jastreboff says?

Another theory, that also happens with the mechanism above, is that the auditory cortex is tonopically mapped with neurons attending to particular frequencies and when the sound goes missing from some of those frequencies there then the neurons have nothing to do and so 'chatter' and group together to chatter & mis-fire synchronously and its that which we hear.

Then there's the over-production of glutamate theory which results in all/some of the neurons being overexcited and its that which we hear.

And, nerve damage theory where the nerve screws up the signal (hope this one is wrong).

I'm clinging on to this one Karl " through time and neuroplasticity, the brain should adapt". Its what I've been told by experts in the field too.

Louise -
You ask what Jastreboff says.
On Page 27:
"Discordant dysfunction (damage) theory postulates that the tinnitus signal originates from the inner ear when OHC (outer hair cells) are more damaged then IHC (inner hair cells)....IHC are the true receptors of sound....OHC work as mechanical ampifiers within the cochlea..."
"When neurons in the dorsal cochlear nuclei receive exitation from the IHS, but not from the damaged OHC, then an imbalance occurs at the level of the auditory system. This, in turn, causes abnormal activity in the form of burst of high frequency neuronal discharges, which, after amplification within the auditory system, are perceived as tinnitus."

I only agree with Jastreboff to a point. I disagree with him about "bursts of high frequency neuronal discharges". In my opinion, his logic falls apart at that point. What is "bursting" and why? That's where he's lost my vote. Also, none of the theories you mention is in line with the theory that I follow, which was explained by Dr. Leslie Dalton in the Summer 2012 ATA "Tinnitus Today" magazine.

I agree with Jastreboff about damage causing an imbalance. But the more important "imbalance" is the difference in signals between left and right ears. There is a group of brain organs called the superior ollivary complex. These organs monitor the signal from the left ear and the right ear to determine the direction of sound. These organs are delicately balanced for binaural input.

Let's go way back, about 4 billion years. Every organ has a purpose that evolved through evolution. All life began as simple one celled organisms. Through evolution, these cells "got together" and worked in groups. The organs of the body evolved from a collaboration of single celled organisms forming alliances for specialized purposes. The creatures that were better able to locate the source of food or could better escape danger had an advantage over other creatures. These creatures use vision, hearing and smell to locate things. The superior ollivary complex evolved as a better way to locate a sound source to give the creature an advantage. It turned out to be a good organ that worked, so most animals have very similar auditory systems.

The superior olivary complex constantly monitors the strength of signals between the left ear and right ear, to locate sound sources. If the signal from one ear isn't there due to damage, then the superior olivary complex sends a distress signal back to the ear: "Can't hear you. Crank it up".

The efferent nerve communicates this information back to the ear using a synaptic current. The ear knows no difference between the voltage coming from the hair cells or from the efferent nerve: both are the same. Both are interpreted as a frequency that is to be sent back into the system for processing.

In the 1970's Dr. Dalton did reasearch on the auditory systems of rhesus monkeys. He put electrodes on the monkey's auditory system organs and measured voltages and phase differences in the auditory system. Dr. Dalton has had tinnitus since he was a teenager. Quite by accident, he noticed something unusual that he heard in the signal which only he could hear, because of his tinnitus!

Therefore, on this one point I disagree with Jastreboff when he says things like "bursts of neuronal discharges". That isn't to diminish how much I respect what he has written about TRT.

Obviously we're all curious about what is causing this sound. We seem to all come up with ideas that "work for us". I have been reading medical books on this subject. There is no clear consensus, and I'm not sure how long it will take to get a consensus between doctors. In my opinion, Dr. Dalton is way ahead of the others. There are several other opinions that have read the agree with what he says. Let's call this "The Efferent Nerve Theory".

 

[Louise]

Wow Karl, thanks for all the info. Does the 'Efferent Nerve Theory' go along with what Dr. Dalton says is the cause?

It still could be that all these causes are correct and some people have one/more of them going on? And that could be the reason some people's T will react to a particular treatment and some people's wont? Maybe certain levels of damage cause one of the mechanisms and higher levels of damage cause more of these mechanisms to come into play?

The "bursts of neuronal discharges" could be the 'chattering, synchronous neurons' in one of the theories I wrote up. Where, because they now dont have a job to do, because they are receiving no sound (due to hearing loss), the neurons start to mis-fire and go a bit wild. That's the theory the ANM machine works on and some people do get their T eliminated by this machine. Hasnt it been pretty much proven that the neurons in the Auditory Cortex are tonotopically mapped?

One question I have about the superior olivary complex monitoring balancing signals; a lot of people will lie on their side with one ear in a pillow, effectively lessening the sound input into one ear so you'd think that might cause problems if the SOC needs equal noise input. Maybe its because that doesnt cause a change too drastic on one side.

I dont know why but I do feel a strong drive to know what mechanism is in play in my ears/brain.

 

[Karl]

Louise -
Here are some scans I made from "Principles of Neural Science":

In the below image, the inner hair bundles are in one row. There are three rows of outer hair bundles.

Notice that there are a whole bunch of afferent nerves attached to the inner hair bundles. Carefully notice that there is also one lonely efferent nerve that is coming back to the inner hairs and is attached to an afferent nerve. That's the culprit.

OK...where is that efferent nerve coming from? See the next scan below. The efferents are coming from the organs labeled LSO and MSO: The lateral superior olive and the medial superior olive. Together, with their fellow partners VNTB and MNTB, they make the tag team, the "superior olivary complex". The LSO measures sound intensity between the two ears at higher frequencies. The MSO measures the phase difference between the two ears at lower frequencies. They work together, sending information about the location of a sound to the higher brain. They also send a signal back to the cochlea if they need more amplification.

You say that it could be that all these different theories are correct. I disagree. We live at a time where the medical establishment has not reached a consensus about the cause of tinnitus. Unfortunately, we have become too democratic, too politically correct to make black-and-white statements about "the cause". There is also money involved and companies competing to get rich off of a tinnitus cure. Today medicine is no longer solely about curing people - a lot medicine is about making a profit. It takes a old time maverick like Dr. Dalton to go it alone. He's spent his life on this stuff. To him it's like a radio circuit which he understands extremely well.

I think there are just a few different sources of the tinnitus problem; but the end result is a bad signal coming back to the ear on the efferent nerve. For example, I no doubt I have cochlear hair loss due to age. But other people with tinnitus have no damage to their ears. People with neck damage, TMJ, who have perfect hearing can have very bad tinnitus. The source of their problem may originates in the dorsal cochlear nuclie, because at that location there are both somasensory nerves and auditory nerves meeting together. From there, the bad input gets feed into the system, finally irritating that efferent nerve.

 

[Louise]

Impressive post Karl! Would this theory still support what we see in MEG scans where too much/wrong parts of the brain light up for T people? Those areas that light up (and shouldnt) are the over-active neurons, but would Dr. Daltons mechanism also result in that? Just wondering!

 

[Louise]

Do you think then for hearing loss induced T if we could get hearing aids right up to the highest frequency possible to hear (22khz isnt it??) and corrected the loss then there would be no 'crank it up' signal and hence no T? Its possible now to get aids up to 13khz.

 

[Aisling]

What is an ANM machine? I only lost hearing on the left but it returned to normal after 5 days. I did read a study I can't remember the name where they tested monkeys whose hearing came back but the tinnitus remains. I don't know about yous but I believe that mine is caused by misfiring neutrons because if I put my finger over my ear I hear these signals and they are very fast. I am hoping rTMS will eventually be the cure

 

[Karl]

Impressive post Karl! Would this theory still support what we see in MEG scans where too much/wrong parts of the brain light up for T people? Those areas that light up (and shouldnt) are the over-active neurons, but would Dr. Daltons mechanism also result in that? Just wondering!

Louise -
You're putting me through my paces today! But funny that you should ask about the MEG scans. Dr. Dalton was involved with those scans. I actually met Dr. Dalton in October, and he explained the story to me. He's a very interesting person.

The lit-up areas of the brain are over excited areas of the brain, where the audiotory signals finally arrive and are interpreted by our consciousness. My tinnitus is 4kHz, so there is a part of my brain that is tonotopically mapped to the auditory nerves that receive 4kHz. (That part of my brain is overstimulated, and would probably light up in the MEG scan!) Other parts of the brain are mapped to other sensory input, such as smell, sounds, sights.

It's interesting that they can electrically stimulate areas of the brain, and a person will experience sounds/smells/memories. All nerves are the same. Nerves don't actually carry sounds, sights, smells - they convey information via synaptic currents. The fastest a nerve can fire is about 400 cycles per second, which is a far cry slower than the 10-20 kHz we experience. The only difference in a nerve connected to your ear and a nerve connected to your leg is how the nerves are mapped to different areas of the brain.

Dr. Dalton was able to temporarily cancel a subject's tinnitus by suppressing the efferent nerve signal. He did this by sending a special sound with a unique phase shift that fools the superior olivary complex into thinking it is experiencing two healthy ear sounds. It's a very brilliant idea that he developed, which requires a complex knowledge of the auditory system. He was able to prove that his sound therapy works from the MEG/MRI scans. A major discovery that deserves the world's attention in my opinion.

 

[Aisling]

Holy crap that is cool. Why can he only doing it temporarily? How did he do it?

 

[Louise]

Sorry Karl, didnt mean to test you

Surely Dr. Daltons method will be getting press attention? Is it fully in production yet? Someone said that you had been there are part of the testing? Did you have a go on it? If so what results did you get?

Maybe his finding still doesnt preclude the other theories, maybe the other mechanisms (eg. over-firing neurons at the frequencies where sound input has been lost) could still be in play but because the superior olivary complex thinks its got perfect signals this overrides the other mechanisms? Or maybe the other mechanisms account for the 25% of people who got no joy from the Dichonics machine?

Wish I could think about something else

 

[Louise]

What is an ANM machine? I only lost hearing on the left but it returned to normal after 5 days. I did read a study I can't remember the name where they tested monkeys whose hearing came back but the tinnitus remains. I don't know about yous but I believe that mine is caused by misfiring neutrons because if I put my finger over my ear I hear these signals and they are very fast. I am hoping rTMS will eventually be the cure

Hi Aisling, I also have that type of noise. I can hear it without putting a finger over my ear though.

The ANM machine is a neurostimulation device which was released in Germany in 2010. Its now available in the UK from one provider. It works by busting up the synchronous neurons by playing tones customised to your T. There used to be an explanation of it on the Tinnitus Clinic's website but it seems to be gone now but it will be in the eBrochure you can request. Its not cheap. You need to have tonal T where you can say what pitch/pitches it is for it to work.

 

[Karl]

Holy crap that is cool. Why can he only doing it temporarily? How did he do it?

Aisling -
Yeah - it is totally amazing and cool.

It's temporary, because he's able to cancel the sound while you are wearing the headphones. Once you take the headphones off, it starts coming back after about 5 minutes. I know because I tried it, which is why I can speak confidently about this subject. Supposedly the duration of tnnitus suppression increases with daily use using a regimented schedule. Reportedly for one woman it lasts up to 13 hours.

By the way, for now this product is off the market. I've been trying to purchase it. I don't know when it will renter the market.

I have been bugging the ATA about promoting Dr. Dalton's research. He developed this sound therapy since the mid 1990's in Texas. The ATA seems to be ignoring his research, probably because they didn't fund it. Instead, they are promoting other things like Sound Cure, which they funded, and vagus nerve stimulation (a product by MicroTransponder). It infuriates me when a slick business marketing gets noticed over brilliant discoveries made by individual researchers who lack slck marketing. It really pisses me off.

I just finished reading a novel, "Cure" by Robin Cook. At the end Dr. Cook puts his stab into the medical profession: "The fatal flaw of greed evidencing itself in an individual who most likely started out with an altruistic desire to help people, just like ninety-nine percent of other medical medical students...It's an unfortunate marriage of medicine and business. In the mid-twentieth century you could do well in medicine, but you really couldn't beome truly wealthy...Today if a doctor wants to become truly wealthy, and a lot of them do, it is reasonably within their grasp by choosing the right specialty, getting involved in pharmaceutical industry, the health-insurance industry, the specialty-hospital industry, or the biotech industry. All these industries say they exist to help people, which they can, but it is more of a by-product, not a goal. The goal is to make money, and do they ever."

 

[Aisling]

So what is Mr Dalton working on now to make it more of a permenant thing? Also what does the headset play, like what does it sound like? I rarely hear my tinnitus during the day only if I am in quiet and also in bed at night. I heard about the acoustic neurostimulation. I am in Ireland and I seen that university of Nottingham are conducting the independent trial. The website said they are still recruiting but when I rang there was no answer and emails cannot be delivered. Would you try this if you were me?

 

[Karl]

Aisling -
Dr. Dalton's sound therapy will be released as a new Internet delivered tinnitus therapy. He has the patent on his system. It's my understanding that others will be running the business. I have tried to contact these people, but I can't get anywhere. I spent $1000 taking a trip to Texas and a week of my time, hoping to get the gear. No luck yet.

The actual program, which I've seen, works on an Android tablet, connected to the Internet. The program is set specifically based on your tinnitus. The settings need to be adjusted with time due how the brain changes - neuroplasticity (I didn't quite understand this).

You asked "How to make it a more permanent thing": Dr. Dalton says that there is no cure for tinnitus, so he's not pursuing something more permanent. Habituation seems to be the ultimate aim. He himself has had tinnitus since he was a teenager. For people who are habituated, I'm told that tinnitus becomes sort of a non-issue. He says that his sound therapy will greatly accelerate the habituation process.

You asked "What does it sound like?": It's a barely audible signal, but it has beat to it. I sat there for an hour watching a movie. I was asked every 10 minutes how my tinnitus was. It gradually decreased. They decreased the signal. I could barely hear it at the end of an hour.

In many respects, I think it is similar to ANM, but it has an additional feature: A phase shift. Dr. Dalton has a patent on this particular feature. His sound therapy takes advantage of the fact for people with tinnitus, the superior olivary complex experiences a unique phase shift. His signal uses a phase shift that tricks the superior olivary complex into "thinking" that it is receiving a normal signal. Hence, the superior olivary complex does not send an irritated signal to the efferent nerve.

Also similar to what ANM does, the sound therapy uses "sidebands" to suppress the nerves in higher brain regions that are over stimulated by tinnitus. Sidebands are frequencies just above and below a frequency. For example, let's say that your brain is overstimulated in a region associated with 4kHz tinnitus. By listening to a sound therapy at, say, 3.5 kHz and 4.5 kHz (above and below), the signal will stimulate areas of the brain next to the 4 kHz region. The effect of stimulating sideband areas tends to relax and suppress the excited nerves.

This makes sense. It is well known that by applying a voltage to the side of an excited nerve, as opposed to a dendrite, the nerve will become calmed-down/suppressed. That's how the knee-jerk reflex works. One nerve stimulates the leg muscle, whereas the efferent nerve suppresses the stimulation of the muscle.

I expect that his sound therapy will become available this year, but I have no idea when. A lot of us are anxious to get it, patiently waiting and waiting and waiting.

 

[Aisling]

That made me so sad to hear that he says there is no cure. How can one truly say they are habituated? I hate having tinnitus even though I only really listen to it before going to sleep.
What about Dr de ridder who cured the woman by using an electrode implant?
Does dr dalton think that some tinnitus can go away on its own?

 

[joe]

Aisling, I was part of the testing program sadly I couldn't get past the examination, as my T was at a frequency higher than 10khz, the testing was intense, with a clever developed program, ANM's gadget won't work for everyone, I am so thankful to University College of London that has confirmed this for me, as I could of spent hours listening to the device with Absolutely no results. I start a new trial 1st of April, which involves attaching electrodes to my scalp, I am now a so called study individual for U.C.L due to be geographically close to London. Daltons work sounds promising by tricking a flaw in the auditory process, however this is not a cure but it's a nice relief for as long as it lasts. The university of Sheffield UK are close now to stem cell technology that could possibly cure damage to the inner ear, that's what will probably put the end to the misery of T, until then let's keep trying with what we have available or on offer to us