Latest "Tinnitus Today" Article about Tinnitus Cancellation
- Thread starter Karl
- Start date
MemberChicken -
If you've read that "T from ototoxic meds can go away", you have given me a glimmer of hope. Actually, my T has been diminishing considerably in the original ear. The other ear - the one that did not have T - has gotten T, but it comes and goes and isn't that bad.
All I can say is, I have been trying like hell to do the right things. They say it takes between 6 months and 2 years to habituate. I does seem to be reducing.
If you've read that "T from ototoxic meds can go away", you have given me a glimmer of hope. Actually, my T has been diminishing considerably in the original ear. The other ear - the one that did not have T - has gotten T, but it comes and goes and isn't that bad.
All I can say is, I have been trying like hell to do the right things. They say it takes between 6 months and 2 years to habituate. I does seem to be reducing.
Karl,
that sounds wonderful. there is hope. we can't give up hope. i wish that low humming at night would stop for me though. but it sounds good for you. i just emailed the Dichonics facility in Amarillo and they said that they are thinking about training people nationwide but don't know when - I wonder if all that works though for $2K.
that sounds wonderful. there is hope. we can't give up hope. i wish that low humming at night would stop for me though. but it sounds good for you. i just emailed the Dichonics facility in Amarillo and they said that they are thinking about training people nationwide but don't know when - I wonder if all that works though for $2K.
I am sorry Chicken but where did you find the information that tinnitus caused by ototoxic meds goes away?
I took an ototoxic medicine a month before getting T and wikipedia article about this drug says "Symptoms (tinnitus) usually occur after a delayed onset, and continue to worsen".
I took an ototoxic medicine a month before getting T and wikipedia article about this drug says "Symptoms (tinnitus) usually occur after a delayed onset, and continue to worsen".
- May 8, 2012
- 1,601
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/15/2012 or earlier?
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Most likely hearing loss
Chicken and Karl,
Good questions on whether somatic tinnitus can go away. Of all the people around me I know that have had T long term like my dad - 30 years, and several co-workers (15-25 years) and oddly, none have somatic T, though it seems to be the most common form. Maybe somatic T is the most common today and wasn't as common back 20 or 30 years ago. Not sure. Maybe it was just as common back then but went away for most people so you don't find as many who have had it long term....Not sure on that either. What we do have in common though no matter what kind of T we have still comes down to brain processing of auditory system where something is misfiring, whether it was caused by loss of hearing, circulation problems, neurological, stress, muscle problems or something else. These systems are so finely interconnected, the outcome of the T noise is the same because all these things are processed by the brain. This is where Dr Dalton is focusing and where he is having his success.
I think in time the brain adapts whether the T noise goes away or not. There are times when I don't hear my T and then I search for it and it magically appears. I can't do it at will-- it only goes away when I am distracted by something else. Your brain prioritizes things. Right now T is important to it. Down the road, hopefully, it won't be. I know people who can "switch it off" so to speak. Not literally turn off the T noise, but tune it out of their brain so they don't hear it unless they want to. But this takes time... I have not medical expertise, that is just my opinion.
Good questions on whether somatic tinnitus can go away. Of all the people around me I know that have had T long term like my dad - 30 years, and several co-workers (15-25 years) and oddly, none have somatic T, though it seems to be the most common form. Maybe somatic T is the most common today and wasn't as common back 20 or 30 years ago. Not sure. Maybe it was just as common back then but went away for most people so you don't find as many who have had it long term....Not sure on that either. What we do have in common though no matter what kind of T we have still comes down to brain processing of auditory system where something is misfiring, whether it was caused by loss of hearing, circulation problems, neurological, stress, muscle problems or something else. These systems are so finely interconnected, the outcome of the T noise is the same because all these things are processed by the brain. This is where Dr Dalton is focusing and where he is having his success.
I think in time the brain adapts whether the T noise goes away or not. There are times when I don't hear my T and then I search for it and it magically appears. I can't do it at will-- it only goes away when I am distracted by something else. Your brain prioritizes things. Right now T is important to it. Down the road, hopefully, it won't be. I know people who can "switch it off" so to speak. Not literally turn off the T noise, but tune it out of their brain so they don't hear it unless they want to. But this takes time... I have not medical expertise, that is just my opinion.
Erik,
My neuromuscular dentist has told me over and over again that he believes that some T is muscular in nature and perhaps your comment on the brain misfiring is accurate. He is a firm believer that working the muscle groups of the SCM, Trapezius are very important because I also had a rotator injury on my right side. But the question is, when the muscles and nerves are back in place wouldn't the ears go back as well. I've read from that people with TMJ/Tinnitus that the TMJ would be gone but T takes a long time to go away. As for ototoxic T, I've read that the T can go away but like Karl says who knows what to believe on the Internet. My husband has been taking blood pressure med and cholesterol med for 6 or 7 years now and he hears crickets but it doesn't even phase him--so jealous of that.
My neuromuscular dentist has told me over and over again that he believes that some T is muscular in nature and perhaps your comment on the brain misfiring is accurate. He is a firm believer that working the muscle groups of the SCM, Trapezius are very important because I also had a rotator injury on my right side. But the question is, when the muscles and nerves are back in place wouldn't the ears go back as well. I've read from that people with TMJ/Tinnitus that the TMJ would be gone but T takes a long time to go away. As for ototoxic T, I've read that the T can go away but like Karl says who knows what to believe on the Internet. My husband has been taking blood pressure med and cholesterol med for 6 or 7 years now and he hears crickets but it doesn't even phase him--so jealous of that.
mock turtle
Member
- Feb 3, 2012
- 263
- Tinnitus Since
- 07/26/1992...habituated after 2 years; 11/04/11 new outbreak
chicken
i think, eriks reference for example, to the relationship between the trigeminal nerve (also known as the 5th cranial nerve) and the dorsal cochlear nucleus translates, into the following
that, for example TMJ (jaw pain) and other facial somatic problems and even other pains in other places can communicate with the nerves that serve the ears
there can be an interplay between nerve centers an even nerve bundles that pass next to each other...pain can spread and different kinds of "pain" if you want to think of tinnitus that way...can cause or aggravate what might seem to be way different pain somewhere else
yeah a lot of this stuff is very technical and erik is very learned...i use web searches to look up terms and stuff on wikipedia or medical web sites, often, to follow the conversation here
best wishes
mock turtle
i think, eriks reference for example, to the relationship between the trigeminal nerve (also known as the 5th cranial nerve) and the dorsal cochlear nucleus translates, into the following
that, for example TMJ (jaw pain) and other facial somatic problems and even other pains in other places can communicate with the nerves that serve the ears
there can be an interplay between nerve centers an even nerve bundles that pass next to each other...pain can spread and different kinds of "pain" if you want to think of tinnitus that way...can cause or aggravate what might seem to be way different pain somewhere else
yeah a lot of this stuff is very technical and erik is very learned...i use web searches to look up terms and stuff on wikipedia or medical web sites, often, to follow the conversation here
best wishes
mock turtle
I can tell, Mock Turtle, that most of the guys on this site are very learned. But, here is the thing, we all have something in common, T. No matter how it came about or how long it will last or what the mechanics are doesn't really matter. We all want the same thing--for it to go away. I guess I keep trying to see if someone has any idea if my situation with the TMJ and neck/shoulder issues can be remedied with my treatments, i.e., orthotic, chiropractic manipulation, Accupuncutre Injection Therapy in the jaw area.
....Back to this topic: Dr. Dalton's explaination of the mechanism of tinnitus. He made a very interesting statement in the Tinnitus Today article about the "central auditory processing system":
Ok...what's he talking about? I was trying to find CAPS in Wikipedia, but only found Auditory System. There is a component "Lateral Lemniscus", which must be what Dr. Dalton is talking about:Here's a description from Wikipedia:
According to Wikipedia, they don't understand the function of this pathway/circuit, but it responds to auditory stimuli. This must be a key piece to the puzzle of tinnitus which Dr. Dalton is talking about.
(Continuing on with my little thesis...) I've prepared the below sketch showing the closed loop nervous system involving the ear. All nervous systems in the body are a "closed loop", involving a process of sensation -> decision -> reaction:
Ok...I'll try to explain what my sketch means. Based on the various resources I have collected during my tinnitus experience, this is what I have learned:
The sound that we hear is picked-up by the inner hair cells, which look like this:
The sound is converted into an electrical signal using a little mechanism at the tips of the hair cells:
The signals from the neurons on the "inners" are transmitted to the brain by afferent nerves:
Notice in the above, there are also "efferent" nerve cells going back to the inner hair cells.
The closed loop is:
Sound source consisting of multiple frequencies enters ear
--> Goes into inner ear's cochlea, which is shaped like a spiral, narrow at beginning, larger at end.
--> Frequencies are absorbed along cochlea and are separated from high frequency to low frequency along the length of the cochlea.
--> Inner hair bundles are shaken by the absorbed frequency (Example: At the 4kHz location along the cochlea, the inner hair bundle cooresponding to 4kHz is shaken. Similar to a building shaken at its base in an earthquake).
--> The shaking inner hair bundles convert the mechanical vibration into an electrical signal, using a tip mechanism.
--> Electrical signal is transmitted along afferent nerves as input to inferior colliculus and superior olivary complex ("The Brain")
--> "The Brain" evaluates what the input signal means, in terms of spatial location, loudness, frequencies.
--> "The Brain" makes a decision to send back to the inner hair cells (Example: "Ok, you're doing fine guys, keep up the good work!" or "Didn't read that last one...can you crank it up guys?")
--> The signal ("output") is sent back to the inner ear using the efferent nerve circuit.
-->The inner hair cells receive the output from the brain, reacting in some way. (Example:"Hey, the brain says we're doing fine. Keep up the good work guys." or "Come on guys, Brain can't hear us! Let's crank it up!")
The Big Question: Then what is tinnitus? If the inner hairs are damaged, they can no longer pick-up the sound source and transmit the sound source signal to the brain. It would seem that, in the absence of a sound source, the input signal may simply be background noise in the circuit. Like the gain control in an amplifier, cranked-up all the way.
Ok...I'll try to explain what my sketch means. Based on the various resources I have collected during my tinnitus experience, this is what I have learned:
The sound that we hear is picked-up by the inner hair cells, which look like this:
The sound is converted into an electrical signal using a little mechanism at the tips of the hair cells:
The signals from the neurons on the "inners" are transmitted to the brain by afferent nerves:
Notice in the above, there are also "efferent" nerve cells going back to the inner hair cells.
The closed loop is:
Sound source consisting of multiple frequencies enters ear
--> Goes into inner ear's cochlea, which is shaped like a spiral, narrow at beginning, larger at end.
--> Frequencies are absorbed along cochlea and are separated from high frequency to low frequency along the length of the cochlea.
--> Inner hair bundles are shaken by the absorbed frequency (Example: At the 4kHz location along the cochlea, the inner hair bundle cooresponding to 4kHz is shaken. Similar to a building shaken at its base in an earthquake).
--> The shaking inner hair bundles convert the mechanical vibration into an electrical signal, using a tip mechanism.
--> Electrical signal is transmitted along afferent nerves as input to inferior colliculus and superior olivary complex ("The Brain")
--> "The Brain" evaluates what the input signal means, in terms of spatial location, loudness, frequencies.
--> "The Brain" makes a decision to send back to the inner hair cells (Example: "Ok, you're doing fine guys, keep up the good work!" or "Didn't read that last one...can you crank it up guys?")
--> The signal ("output") is sent back to the inner ear using the efferent nerve circuit.
-->The inner hair cells receive the output from the brain, reacting in some way. (Example:"Hey, the brain says we're doing fine. Keep up the good work guys." or "Come on guys, Brain can't hear us! Let's crank it up!")
The Big Question: Then what is tinnitus? If the inner hairs are damaged, they can no longer pick-up the sound source and transmit the sound source signal to the brain. It would seem that, in the absence of a sound source, the input signal may simply be background noise in the circuit. Like the gain control in an amplifier, cranked-up all the way.
- May 8, 2012
- 1,601
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/15/2012 or earlier?
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Most likely hearing loss
- May 8, 2012
- 1,601
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/15/2012 or earlier?
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Most likely hearing loss
It is like that static noise you get when you turn up your stereo volume and mute your music....
erik -Excellent info Karl, can you find us a cure please?
I'll leave "finding a cure" to you!
I'm just deciphering Dr. Dalton's explaination, using Wikipedia, information from my audiologist and a lot of Dr. A. J. Hudspeth's research.
The way I see it, Dr. Dalton has set the ball at the 1 yard line: Somebody needs to kick it in.
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