Look at What You Can Do, Not What You Can't

[Foncky]

Please this won't lead anywhere. Sort it out in PM if you want.

The biggest problem with TRT is :
- cost
- skilled hearing specialists are rare

I live in a major city in a major European country and no audiologist or ENT I saw has a clue. And I don't have 4000 euros for something which is controversial anyway.

So TRT might work for me, or not. But it's not for me until things change in my country.

 

[Michael Leigh]

e yet to understand irony.
People like Lazarus - who are being dogmatically told by you they have to follow the Jasterboff method to treat their tinnitus - probably find it less amusing. Fortunately there are alternative voices on here to counter the Leigh "wisdom".

Ohh...There's that word again "wisdom" love it... I agree there are plenty more people at tinnitus talk that word is befitting but alas it's not me..

 

[Michael Leigh]

Please this won't lead anywhere. Sort it out in PM if you want.
The biggest problem with TRT is :
- cost
- skilled hearing specialists are rare
I live in a major city in a major European country and no audiologist or ENT I saw has a clue. And I don't have 4000 euros for something which is controversial anyway.
So TRT might work for me, or not. But it's not for me until things change in my country.

Well said @Foncky Whilst I am enjoying the humour that @david c is providing, I must get back to the task in hand and that's helping people (if possible) with this condition.
Michael

 

[david c]

Ohh...There's that word again "wisdom" love it... I agree there are plenty more people at tinnitus talk that word is befitting but alas it's not me..

No - no ability to understand irony either.

I'm glad that this thread has provided the chance for tinnitus talk members to see the real Michael Leigh in all his smugness.

 

[david c]

I live in a major city in a major European country and no audiologist or ENT I saw has a clue. And I don't have 4000 euros for something which is controversial anyway.

So TRT might work for me, or not.

I'd strongly recommend that anyone who does have 4000 euros, doesn't waste their money on TRT. It's an expensive fraud. There are plenty of other, better and cheaper ways of habituating to tinnitus.

 

[Foncky]

Which ones ?

 

[bill 112]

Which ones ?

Don't bother with it Foncky, seriously don't waste your money on TRT.

I met with two skilled audiologists in 2014 when I developed H and louder T, both tried to sell me expensive WNG's that are nothing more than a dumbed down MP3 player. I did a trial run with them for one week and all they did was piss off my T and aggravate my ears even further! When I returned I was told I wasn't doing it right? Anyway I went to see Deepak Kumar and he organised another treatment plan for me with the use of music and nature sounds. He gave me two CDs consisting of various relaxing nature sounds and recommended that I listen to some soft classical music everyday whilst slowly increasing the volume to what I could comfortably tolerate.

This cost me €100 including the consultation and it worked, I improved greatly over the next 4 months, then I stopped and began taking in environmental noise like wind blowing softly or walking on a rainy day.
After that I just improved and improved further and further to where I was basically cured by September 2015.

Time, precaution and natural healing are the forces at play here not sound generators, I recovered naturally just by being careful and patient.

 

[Michael Leigh]

@bill 112
With all due respect Bill, TRT is a two year treatment and follows a strict protocol. This includes regular counselling sessions with a Hearing Therapist trained in TRT and wearing 2 white noise generators for up to 10hrs a day. Then using a sound machine by the bedside for sound enrichment throughout the night until morning.

There are some people that do not understand what proper TRT is. Therefore, I will explain for those that do not know.

1. Wearing one white noise generator alone with or without regular tinnitus counselling is not TRT
2, Wearing 2 white noise generators without tinnitus counselling is not TRT

I am not saying that a person who wears 1 or 2 white noise generators without tinnitus counselling won't gain any benefit because some people do. I am saying it doesn't follow the proper Tinnitus Retraining Therapy
protocol.

TRT, CBT are not a cure for tinnitus and will not work for everyone the same as any other treatment. However, if someone is going to try TRT and they are paying for this treatment then they want to know what they are getting is right.

In my opinion, I don't believe a person that is new to tinnitus should try TRT. Leave it for around 6 months preferably a little longer. Many people habituate to tinnitus within this time naturally without any treatment.

In the early stages of tinnitus, many people feel like they're riding an emotional rollercoaster. This takes time to settle. For anyone that is going to be paying for TRT and wants to know they are getting the correct treatment it is as follows. Anything less that a clinic offers you then I suggest, giving them a wide berth and go elsewhere.

Proper TRT treatment requires a person to wear two white noise generators and to be having regular counselling sessions with a Hearing Therapist. The treatment lasts from 12 to 24 months.


What happens in TRT treatment?

The Hearing Therapist talks to a patient in a controlled and precise manner so that the patient feels relaxed and not pressured. Over time the negative thinking that is often associated with tinnitus and hyperacusis is gradually dispelled and demystified. Therefore, it must be stressed and understood, this treatment takes time and is something that cannot be rushed.

The second part of the treatment requires the patient to wear two white noise generators for up to ten hours a day. They are first put on in the morning and the white noise set to just below the tinnitus, and then left alone. It can be tempting to turn up the volume when out on the street as traffic noise can make it difficult to hear them. Please don't do this. Constantly adjusting the wngs volume will delay the habituation process. Over time the brain habituates to the white noise generators and pushes the tinnitus further into the background where it becomes less noticeable. This cannot be successfully achieved if the wngs is repeatedly adjusted throughout the day.

While the auditory system is being treated with white noise it is gradually being desensitised and treating the hyperacusis. White noise generators should not be used when going to sleep at night. When retiring one should use a sound machine by the bedside and the volume adjusted to a level just below the tinnitus. The sound machine should be set to play throughout the night until morning and this provides the brain and auditory system with sound enrichment.

Michael

 

[RaZaH]

I recovered naturally just by being careful and patient.

Recovered from t or H ?

 

[david c]

Don't bother with it Foncky, seriously don't waste your money on TRT.

Time, precaution and natural healing are the forces at play here not sound generators, I recovered naturally just by being careful and patient.

Completely correct. TRT is simply an audiology con-trick - a way of making money out of tinnitus. It's noticeable that - apart from a very few TRT cheerleaders such as M Leigh - most people on tinnitus talk haven't got positive things to say about it.

 

[bill 112]

Recovered from t or H ?

Both, my T went from severe to barely audible within a year, my H recovered by about 85% I would say.

High pitched noises were uncomfortable, I had mild T for three years prior to this with one spike that lasted about a month during that period.

 

[bill 112]

@Michael Leigh
TRT is just a supportive bandage for people who develop T and or H and takes all the credit for any recovery that may come.If the patient doesn't get better then it's their fault, they didn't want to get better and it's all a psychological problem.

That is why TRT has such a high success rate, the people who recover are accounted for and those who don't are just disregarded and told to see a psychologist to control their"phonophobia"
This is why TRT has such a high success rate, those who get better are counted and those who don't simply never existed.

It's a scam Michael, I recovered completely on my own and had I done TRT at the time I most likely would have accredited that for my recovery but I know that time and patience was my healer not sound enrichment.

If you could be me for a day you'd understand, your experience is different to mine and as such you too have been roped in by the TRT crowd or Jastrebrites because you received TRT and think that was responsible for your recovery. It wasn't, time, patience and gradual noise exposure done all on your own would have wielded the same results for your H and all for the low cost of £0.

I like you Michael so I don't want to argue with you but TRT is a joke, a money scam by audiologists and nothing more. To me a real treatment is something that actually reduces T and H, an overpriced MP3 player will never do that, help habituation maybe but that's about it.

 

[Lazarus]

First of all, thank you guys for this thoughtful exchange. TRT is a long path, up to 18 months, and I walked on it for just three months. My intention is persisting on it, according to Jastreboff's protocols, then making my evaluation.

As for now, like I said, no improvement, and maybe a little worsening. But it's true that with the sound generators on, even if it's not masking, you can better cope with T and H.

On the other hand, it seems that TRT supporters fall under a variation of the catch 22 paradox: even if you follow TRT protocols properly, there are chances you don't achieve good results, but if your results are not good, then probably you are not following TRT protocols properly. Basically, when you say 'It didn't work with me', TRT fans use to reply "hmm I think you didn't follow correctly the therapy...did you undergo CBT and counselling and and and....no? so it's not TRT". Well, I'm doing all these stuff, obedient like a trappist monk or a prussian soldier. I wear my generators 12hours/day. My therapists suggested me to wear them overnight, but I preferred not to, following Michael's advices and Jastreboff's writings. CBT sessions are a bit shallow according to my opinion. Counselling sessions are becoming boring, they always repeat the same things, and by the way TT pundits are way out better and deeper than those counsellor. Maybe this Center is inadequate, though it seems the best here around.

I think that TRT is mainly about the generators. Using them, you can deal with your problem easier. Time passes (2 years) and maybe your T calms down spontaneously . If not, you can still use the generators, as Michael does.

Lazarus

 

[Foncky]

Don't bother with it Foncky, seriously don't waste your money on TRT.

I met with two skilled audiologists in 2014 when I developed H and louder T, both tried to sell me expensive WNG's that are nothing more than a dumbed down MP3 player. I did a trial run with them for one week and all they did was piss off my T and aggravate my ears even further! When I returned I was told I wasn't doing it right? Anyway I went to see Deepak Kumar and he organised another treatment plan for me with the use of music and nature sounds. He gave me two CDs consisting of various relaxing nature sounds and recommended that I listen to some soft classical music everyday whilst slowly increasing the volume to what I could comfortably tolerate.

This cost me €100 including the consultation and it worked, I improved greatly over the next 4 months, then I stopped and began taking in environmental noise like wind blowing softly or walking on a rainy day.
After that I just improved and improved further and further to where I was basically cured by September 2015.

Time, precaution and natural healing are the forces at play here not sound generators, I recovered naturally just by being careful and patient.

Thank you. I know what you're going through.

But I'm past the natural recovery stage... My last trauma happened in December 2015, 12 years after the first one.

Things have only been worsening since then.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I think that TRT is mainly about the generators. Using them, you can deal with your problem easier. Time passes (2 years) and maybe your T calms down spontaneously . If not, you can still use the generators, as Michael does.

@Lazarus
Lazarus, you have just started the TRT treatment and I hope you do well with it. The treatment last for up to 2 years. Contrary to what you might think, the most important part of therapy is the counselling, it is not the white noise generators, although they are import too.
Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

@bill 112
Hi Bill.
I like you also and I know you have been through a lot and have no wish you argue with you either. I'm happy to accept and respect your disbelieve in this treatment and hope you show me the same courtesy. I was going to write another thread about TRT but because @Lazarus has started this treatment I have decided not to. It doesn't help someone that is on this treatment or any other, like CBT to be reading negative comments, as this can be detrimental to a person's success with it. I will not be commenting further on TRT.
All the best
Michael

 

[Telis]

The counselling is a joke, I have seen one of the highly recommended TRT practitioners that a certain doctor here recommended. These people tell you the same BS over and over, and it's all basic, anyone could read and learn what they tell you online in a a coupl of hours. This TRT certification must be a weekend workshop? These are audiologists, not therapists, why are they professionally counselling you?


And as far as what they charge for white noise generators, well that should be a red flag right there, obvious rip off, this is the bulk of the price for the treatment, over 3k for garbage plastic cheap quality white noise, come on! That's some high tech white noise.

These people told me to ignore pain, go out into what is to be considered "safe" for a healthy ear and enjoy myself. I followed this advise, now I have ( three years later) a serious case of H and never ending ear pain. Their response, well that's anxiety and negative thinking, not your damaged ears, keep going even if it hurts. I was still dumb enough to believe them until it became all too obvious to ignore the fact that I was setting myself so far back that I may not recover. I had just gone through barotrauma causing ruptured ear drums, ototoxic poisoning, hearing loss and that was the advise! I should have been in the quiet for up to 6 months following ototoxicity, not out with my friends at a loud pub like they advised, nor should I have been taking advise from anybody but my doctor.

These people seem like they my be serious idiots and always assume you are some kind of anxiety case, they cant see the condition, well gotta be anxiety!! They make the assumption that you do not have a medical issue, but a mental one.

These are people that sit in a sound booth and perform hearing tests all day that a 10 year old could learn to do in a week. And we trust them with medical advise?

A two min hearing test and a few questions was my evaluation, they were not very interested in history/cause, nothing, if you think these people are tinnitus experts, go talk to them, it's pretty evident that they don't know anymore than the next person that's done any kind of homework on the subject.

TRT has been around for ages, yet no proof that it is effective. Also, the couple of people that do say it works seem to be pitching it constantly, why is that? I can understand wanting to share what has helped them but it always seems like more of a sales pitch than anything else. They linger around like a foul smell jamming this crap down people's throats, every thread they are around to give advise, defend it, basically do whatever it takes to keep selling it to the public, all very suspicious IMO. Always a TRT salesman lurking around to give advise and help out.