LOUD Tinnitus versus MILD Tinnitus

[linearb]

TMJ and allergies can both cause blocked ears.

Aggressive vasalva maneuver is a bad idea, but, it's very very rare for that to cause actual problems. I clear my ears all the time, I have for years, and it has zero impact on my ringing.

 

[LadyDi]

Very interesting thread. I agree that how loud or annoying anyone perceives his/her tinnitus probably is due to multiple factors.

Actually, there are tests that can give you a rough idea of your loudness and pitch. During my Neuronomics treatments, I had extensive testing done several times that told me both what my "loudness" match was (measured by how many dBs it took to mask the sound of my tinnitus, being the less masking required, the milder your T) and "pitch" matching regarding the frequency of my tinnitus. Of course, those numbers are meaningful only on the exact day you are having the test. My guess is if I had the test done, say, a week later on a "bad" or "good" day, my numbers would be different.

Anyway, at my last test: My pitch was at 9000 hz, reduced from about 11ooo hz a year earlier. It now takes me about 35 dB to mask my T (as I recall, dont have the numbers in front of me), also a reduction from a year earlier. Having said that, some days my T seems crazy loud.

Like @I who love music says: I think that having these numbers ultimately doesn't do me much good. What helps (for me) is to find better ways to pay less attention to my tinnitus. But I respect that we all are so different and I very much feel for those of you who are suffering. Tinnitus that one person might call mild can be devastating to someone else.

 

[LadyDi]

Oh, and by the way, I am not sure what exactly is the point of the poll attached to this thread.

I think the idea of "understanding" things we haven't experienced is pretty abstract. I can't "understand" what it would be like to live life without use of my legs, to be a single mother, to have cancer, to be homeless, to be chronically depressed... the list goes on and on. I could not understand having tinnitus, prior to having it myself.

What I can do, however, is to try to empathize with others struggling with these conditions. That is all any of us can do. You might think from the information above on my loudness and pitch readings, and the fact that I am able to continue with my life as it was before tinnitus, that I have "mild" T. But you might be wrong. I think labels can be misleading and not helpful.

 

[erik]

Loudness is in the ears of the beholder.... I could never really mask my T on a regular basis because my fluctuations were crazy. So I didn't. One day my T was so low that I could barely hear them and then the next it was the loudest thing I heard all day long.

More than my loudness however, was how annoyed I was when it was super loud. Over time, the annoyance level began to level out and drop. Fast forward a couple of years, if I wake up and it is loud, I may initially get annoyed but that usually goes away fairly quickly, I ignore it and I can go about my day. This comes in time.

Dr Nagler has a good response here to this which I believe is spot on: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/annoyance-is-a-factor-of-loudness.4447/

 

[svintegrity]

It also depends on the cause of the T, which is why a differential diagnosis is essential. Not all T is created equal, just as not all cancers are the same.

 

[NiNyu]

And my empathy is vast and my imagination does not know any boundaries. You see, I can understand what it would be like to live life bound to a wheelchair, to be totally broke and homeless, how the pain of others might feel.. and so on.

Prior to my SSHL which left me with T I could imagine how it might be. Imagine.
Though, I have to say, some years ago I had mild T (only perceivable in silent rooms) in my right ear due to an eardrum perforation. Once the hole healed up itself the T disappeared. I felt lucky. And of course I thought that all Ts are the like, little did I know! Still believing I knew what all Ts felt like I talked to friends about it, and stated that I could not imagine living with such an annoying noise in my ear 24/7. No way! I'd rather end my existence than being tortured forever. Now I got extreme intrusive T +H. Uncalled and unasked. Tragic irony or sad injustice? You tell me.

Was my understanding of T prior to having extreme intrusive T myself spot on? No, definitely not! But do I think that I could handle mild T better than this extreme? Yes, definitely yes! I have experienced both worlds. And I am not the only one to confirm.

 

[Telis]

TMJ and allergies can both cause blocked ears.

Aggressive vasalva maneuver is a bad idea, but, it's very very rare for that to cause actual problems. I clear my ears all the time, I have for years, and it has zero impact on my ringing.

No it's not rare at all...do it aggressively and you can very easily cause a ton of hearing loss. Happens all the time. I don't know how many articles I have read talking about divers having this problem.

I had never had ringing in my ears in my life prior to using is method. Push too hard and bam you will have tinnitus and hearing loss.

It's the same as flying with a blocked ear, dangerous.

 

[Dutchy]

Oh yes i do,i didn't experience it myself so far but i did see a documentary of a country(woman)men whom used
euthanasia to end her suffering.I hope nobody comes to that point though.

 

[NiNyu]

No it's not rare at all...do it aggressively and you can very easily cause a ton of hearing loss. Happens all the time. I don't know how many articles I have read talking about divers having this problem.

I had never had ringing in my ears in my life prior to using is method. Push too hard and bam you will have tinnitus and hearing loss.

It's the same as flying with a blocked ear, dangerous.

My T might have been caused by a barotrauma. I used to do plenty of inclined push-ups and handstands. I also used to blow my nose heavily while my head was down. So I might have inadvertently done the vasalva maneuver.


@Dutchy , you mean Gaby. Yes, she suffered greatly. What caused your T ?

 

[linearb]

No it's not rare at all...do it aggressively and you can very easily cause a ton of hearing loss. Happens all the time. I don't know how many articles I have read talking about divers having this problem.

The only references I can find, are to divers incorrectly equalizing or being at significant depths, which is a lot different than equalizing pressure at usual altitudes. I've never heard of the valsalva being dangerous, so I am curious know more specifically what you were looking at.

I tend to do this when my allergies are bad; if there's anything more than a very short term impact on my ringing, I've never noticed.

 

[jazz]

Only a small percentage of people who experience tinnitus actually have loud tinnitus. The problem however is that suffering isn't necessarily related to loudness and somebody with very mild tinnitus can be as traumatised as somebody with very loud tinnitus. I also believe that somebody with very mild tinnitus can perceive their tinnitus as being loud and proof of this can be found reading this board and other tinnitus boards including Facebook.

I do understand the science behind the articles, i.e., that loudness and annoyance occupy separate--though overlapping--neural networks. But, as someone with wide tinnitus fluctuations, I do know the difference between "loud" and "more quiet" tinnitus. Every day or two my volume fluctuations remind me of these differences.

Obviously, some people may not be able to distinguish. Perhaps, their tinnitus is low but its the only level they've ever known. And, likewise, their noise bothers them greatly and they constantly listen for it and monitor it. Obviously, such people would believe their tinnitus is loud. They have nothing to compare it with and they are bothered greatly.

Regarding tinnitus and annoyance, I know personally habituation is much more difficult for louder tinnitus. Loud tinnitus affects your concentration. It just cuts through everything and is almost impossible to tune out. I do know it is possible to habituate to loud tinnitus. We have several people who have accomplished this. So habitation is always possible, but VOLUME does matter and does make habituation more challenging.

Why volume matters is about our attentional networks and our limbic system. Our brains are wired to keep us safe; and loud tinnitus generates a lot of abnormal neural activity--more than quiet tinnitus. As such, I believe, this large amount of abnormal neural activity becomes a focus for our attentional and limbic systems. And we--whether we like it or not--are drawn to the noise because our brain is unable to tune it out.

To overcome this, it is important to increase our attentional control. I am doing meditation daily, and I have experienced improvement. My hope is that I'll be able to develop my attentional skills so I will one day be able to tune out my loud days. I don't worry about my quiet days. I've already habituated to those. Although I always hear my tinnitus, my low days do not affect my mood, cognition, or anything else. I feel normal, even with tinnitus, but only when my noise is low.

For people with loud tinnitus, I suggest they keep trying things to increase their attentional control. It's a long road, but the only road we have available for the next several years--unless we want to try something like RTG.

(Or perhaps neurofeedback!)

 

[RB2014]

I have had T +H, loud T and mild T and there is a huge difference. T+H was unbearable. I can understand how someone would not be able to put up with that. I pray that anyone with T &H can lose the H to get back to just T. Loud T is also difficult to handle, but nothing like T&H. Mild T is a walk in the park after you have had loud T or T&H.
I do believe that talking to your T and telling it to go away helps with loudness. There are a couple times I have been able to tell the T to go away and it has taken me back to very mild T. The past 4 days I have done nothing to control the T and it has been there every day. I'm going back to trying to control my T with my mind. Basically the same method the IWLM describes in his posts, but I get mad at my T. Not physically, but mentally, and if I concentrate hard enough I can sometimes make it get very quiet and almost go away. This is especially true in the mornings when I wake up. I think even no reaction to T is not enough. I think there needs to be a constant reaction or meditation to it in order to habituate. I'm going to keep practicing.

Ninyu - I also have no high frequency left, similar to what you described in your post. 5 months ago I could barely even notice my T and had been like that for 40 years. It is possibly to have no high frequency left and be oblivious to T. I'm trying to get back there. Its possible. Don't let the fact you have no high frequency left convince you that its not possible.

 

[RB2014]

Last night for 30 minutes I sat down and meditated. I tensed up my brain and talked to my T telling it to stop. I basically told it to stop happening 100 different ways with my eyes closed. The emotion I would use is determined which will make your head feel tense. Today I woke up and after 4 days of constant T, I am back at baseline. I didnt do anything crazy, didnt let my emotions get out of control, just sat thinking determined that I wanted it gone. It did drop the volume a bit last night, but it was pretty loud yesterday. I'm not sure how long this will last into today, but for me whatever I wake up with is what I have for the rest of the day. Sometimes at the end of the day it gets louder due to stress, but I have to control that. I'm going to keep trying this in the morning, midday and at night everyday.
Again just sitting for 4 days and just accepting my T and living with it, didnt get me any better or worst. We all know T thrives on anxeity, stress, grief, the emotions I felt for 30 minutes yesterday were the exact opposite. Maybe this is how to get better, is to combat T with the opposite emotions that make it thrive? T is in our heads, maybe thats how we have to fix it, is to try and figure out how to rewire our brains to ignore it.

 

[NiNyu]

@RB2014 , that's interesting. Thank you. I hope your meditions work out for you. I tried something similar, I asked nature to stop the noise. I did ask. I did plea. I did everything.. but still.. you know.

 

[RB2014]

NiNyu, I hope and pray that you find better days ahead. I'm trying exercise, meditation, medication, eating healthy, pretty much anything I can to try and cope with this T that has changed most of our lives. It looks like you have already done the same from your post. I spent most of my life saving so I could be comfortable and when I turned 40 I remember thinking wow these are going to be the best years of my life. I turned 41 and a T that I had barely ever noticed before came raging in. I used to have all these great hobbies and now all I do is cling to the research section hoping that they can figure this out sooner than later. I keep hoping and reading trying to figure out a way to beat this thing.

 

[NiNyu]

Thank you. ~hug Same here! All I do is cling to this forum, research the internet (too many scams), hoping that they can figure this somehow. I keep hoping and reading trying to figure out a way to beat this thing.
I ate healthy, I did exercise, I read and studied, life was beautiful.. comfortable.. and now..

 

[Dutchy]

My T might have been caused by a barotrauma. I used to do plenty of inclined push-ups and handstands. I also used to blow my nose heavily while my head was down. So I might have inadvertently done the vasalva maneuver.


@Dutchy , you mean Gaby. Yes, she suffered greatly. What caused your T ?

I'm not sure,perhaps music but also maybe the machinery at work.Come to think of it the smoke alarm might have caused it.The problem is i started noticing it before i knew what it was and not realizing it was in my own head.One time i was searching for anything electrical in my room to be operational and i still heard this sound.

Yeah Gaby.... such a sad story.

 

[labrat10687]

Loudness and pitch. Wow. 2 words that have come into my T world. I'm one of the few who have been accepted to take part in vagus nerve stimulation study done in the US at four clinics. Have had tinnitus since 2000. 15 years. What really gets me down is what the past 2 days has brought. My wife leaves for work at 6 am and works at the hospital where the tinnitus clinic is located. I'm very lucky to live 30 miles from the clinic.

Yesterday when I heard her leave for work my tinnitus on a scale from 1-10 was a 2. Very easy to tolerate so I just stayed up. A glorious day. Fast forward to this morning. Woke up right after she left and it was 9.8 and bouncing from ear to ear. Nasty s*** to say the least. What was the difference? Will never know but ahead with my 2.5hr daily noise therapy for the study. Does loudness and pitch matter? Yes! Don't let anyone tell you it doesn't! It matters!!