Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Efficacy Debate

[FERNANDO GIL]

I have been following this debate for a while and I'm beginning to wonder if the improvement in hearing in the LLLT group might be from the positive affect lasers can have on inflammation. Could it be that by reducing the inflammation leads to better overall health and function of the inner ear? I truly believe that the LLLT group is getting some relief. Many of those who are skeptical are so due too the lack of proof that hair cells are regenerated. Maybe there's more at work here. Many people with Tinnitus feel it as a head sensation, maybe the lasers help reduce inflammation of the nerves thereby improving tinnitus and hearing. Just trying to think outside of the box. I'm still considering LLLT treatment as I've yet to hear of a single individual who has been harmed by this and in the long run it's probably cheaper than TRT .

Hello
I did pent 1600 € in a TRT device. And i know they sell them for more. You can buy a good laser for 1500 Usd. coming out of china, plus 200 Usd for transport.
It´s up to you then, but as I said, sooner or later you will need to a power session. But time will tell.


LLLT is used as well in inflamation, so maybe there is a good point there.
Sheers

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Wilden and Shemesh are cut from the same cloth.

Kind of "funny" that you should refer to Dr. Wilden along with Shemesh as being "cut from the same cloth" when I just happen to have found two video clips filmed in the very same location (look at the background setting). Only difference is that the two clips relate to Jastreboff and Shemesh (not Dr. Wilden...!).





Of course that doesn't prove anything as such; in fact, it proves nothing. But considering your comment about being cut from the same cloth, I still had a good laugh the first time I noticed the background was identical...

 

[dboy]

I found the above abstract to be of considerable interest and decided to read through the entire article. Turns out that the investigators only looked at eight rats. Moreover, there were no controls...

I am in no way criticizing ATEOS for posting the abstract of this article. He did not have access to the entire study.

...

But then they did have controls!?!

How could you be wrong - and in relation to something so specific - when you just mentioned you had read the entire article?

I missed it. Thank you for pointing it out.

stephen nagler

Having managed to see a copy of the article in question I would like to give my personal opinion that there is no realistic possibility that somebody could read it and miss that there were controls. The results section of the article contains repeated contrasts between the 'GM' (Gentamicin) and 'GM+L' (Gentamicin + Laser) ears. This contrast is both in the text and in the graphs that accompany it. I will leave readers to draw their own conclusions regarding what this means.

In a couple of recent posts I have referred to the defensiveness that LLLT users sometimes feel. I believe this incident is a good illustration of why they feel this way.

 

[ruben ruiz]

Here is an excerpt from a clinical trial against LLLT.
...The treatment group was given LLLT, which consisted of shining low-level lasers onto the outer ear, head, and neck. Each laser treatment lasted approximately five minutes. Three treatments were applied within the course of one week.
Are you kidding...
This is not a clinical trial it is a farce.
Firstly the laser is more powerful and it is shown directly into the ear. I can tell you nothing brings relief from the western world in one week except pills.

 

[1MW]

diziness is sign of more damage to labyrinth.
My sugestion is to stop use it because at the end you will have more T

 

[1MW]

Good sells of MLS NOVATECH.....

In other thread a real sufferer reported 0 improvent sure his says true.

 

[CarrieLee]

I will encourage you to go to the LLLT effacy thread if you only bring negativity here. This thread is for people who are intersted or currently use LLLT to share information. We don't need to see another troll crashing here. You can say whatever you want in another effacy thread.

 

[CarrieLee]

Dear TinnitusTalk managers, please have a control of people just trying to bring other people who is using the therapy down. He can go to another thread. Please ban him from this thread. Thank you!

 

[1MW]

I must inform people that lasers sold to ebay for 10 euros plus 10 euros for power supply plus 5 euro for optic fiber that is the real price.4000 euro lasers are not different.
Iam not suggesting to anyone to put in his ears lasers of that power > 100mw because more damage to ears can happen. Dizziness & more T is an early sign for more damage.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Dear TinnitusTalk managers, please have a control of people just trying to bring other people who is using the therapy down. He can go to another thread. Please ban him from this thread. Thank you!

Trust me. I feel your pain from time-to-time when I read certain entries on this board.

The following probably illustrates how I feel when I read... well, better not mention any names, I guess...

 

[CarrieLee]

Only laser specialist or medical doctor to give that advice. Good luck with eBay laser. I Will not use it. Effacy thread will be a good place for you to Express your negativity. Please go there instead.

 

[1MW]

Of course you will not use it.
You give advice to buy from scammers at 4000 euro price.
808nm & 100mw is the same independent from wich is the seller and the cost.
But scammer sells that as magic cure and magic technology 4000 euros with 3900 profit.
The normal seller sells that 25 euro with 5-10 euro profit.
People don't be fool the lasers are the same i can guarantee for this.
T is very dificult situation that scammers find ways to exploit people.

 

[1MW]

Also to inform that laser can do more damage to ear do not regenerate hair cells but there a case that maybe beneficial.That case is herpes in the inner ear. Have found that LLLT is effective against herpes and nothing else.
So if someone has acoustic trauma damage from antiobiotics there is no benefit only more damage maybe happen if someone has uknown type of T and the unknown cause is herpes maybe benefit but this case also covered partialy by antivirals like valacyclovir.
If someone responds partialy to valacyclovir maybe respond to LLLT.
If someone is infected from herpes the is no way to kill it completelly
he can sleep the virus but not kill it.
Most times herpes do relapse when someone has weak immune system
for example this can happen in situations of stress lack of sleep etc..
In a case of relapse the standard treatment is antivirals plus corticosteroids for very short time to reduce inflammation.
Many cases of menieries in reality was herpes and that proven by response to valacyclovir.

 

[linearb]

80% of the adult population of the US carries some version of the herpes virus. Of course, it may be a small minority for whom the virus moves to the inner ear / auditory nerves.

 

[Vincent R]

Trust me. I feel your pain from time-to-time when I read certain entries on this board.

The following probably illustrates how I feel when I read... well, better not mention any names, I guess...

View attachment 5620

View attachment 5622

View attachment 5621

You seem to be one of the more appreciated members here on TT, though. This suggests people like your approach. Does this not give you reason to feel hope about mankind in general and TT-members in specifik?

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Does this not give you reason to feel hope about mankind in general and TT-members in specifik?

Society is devoid of leadership, competence, morals, and... well... a number of other things.

Society is full of weakness, failure to understand the obvious, confused individuals, and... well... a number of other things.

As a single example of the above, I contacted the EU in the Fall of last year. The topic was promoting noise awareness within the EU in order to prevent hearing loss and tinnitus. You can see my posts here:

www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/bta-refuses-to-fund-drug-and-stem-cell-research.6599/#post-72413
www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/bta-refuses-to-fund-drug-and-stem-cell-research.6599/page-2#post-75595

We live in 2015 and still basic (and very obvious) problems such as noise awareness are not being addressed nor enforced. There are so many quick-win approaches that could be adopted in a split second such as handing out ear plugs at concerts. But it is not being done. And in all of EU, only Switzerland has noise quotas for public venues. It took a citizen of the EU - me - to make a bureaucrat aware of the problem. Has it been fixed? You know the answer. If not, see my posts above...

As for my reflections on "mankind", well it is not really for me to comment on such matters. But the following does provide a few insights:

www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-upcoming-treatment-hifu-high-intensity-focused-ultrasound-surgery.276/page-8#post-75213

The post above, was a consequence of the following post (the last destination for my various trips around the world):

www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-upcoming-treatment-hifu-high-intensity-focused-ultrasound-surgery.276/page-8#post-75063

 

[ruben ruiz]

Help, IMW is saying that lasers will cause more T and H. Is there factual evidence that this is true?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Help, IMW is saying that lasers will cause more T and H. Is there factual evidence that this is true?

When you start the treatment the tendency is to have higher T for a few days or 2/3 weeks, Not all the time. But with time the T start to drop. That is part of the process. Everyone that had results with LLLT does have higher T for a wille.
Concerning H i don´t think so.

 

[Vincent R]

Society is devoid of leadership, competence, morals, and... well... a number of other things.

Society is full of weakness, failure to understand the obvious, confused individuals, and... well... a number of other things.

As a single example of the above, I contacted the EU in the Fall of last year. The topic was promoting noise awareness within the EU in order to prevent hearing loss and tinnitus. You can see my posts here:

www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/bta-refuses-to-fund-drug-and-stem-cell-research.6599/#post-72413
www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/bta-refuses-to-fund-drug-and-stem-cell-research.6599/page-2#post-75595

We live in 2015 and still basic (and very obvious) problems such as noise awareness are not being addressed nor enforced. There are so many quick-win approaches that could be adopted in a split second such as handing out ear plugs at concerts. But it is not being done. And in all of EU, only Switzerland has noise quotas for public venues. It took a citizen of the EU - me - to make a bureaucrat aware of the problem. Has it been fixed? You know the answer. If not, see my posts above...

As for my reflections on "mankind", well it is not really for me to comment on such matters. But the following does provide a few insights:

www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-upcoming-treatment-hifu-high-intensity-focused-ultrasound-surgery.276/page-8#post-75213

The post above, was a consequence of the following post (the last destination for my various trips around the world):

www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-upcoming-treatment-hifu-high-intensity-focused-ultrasound-surgery.276/page-8#post-75063

I found your posts to be a quite interesting read. I've previously noted that you occasionally express no small amount of contempt. This is nothing unusual or strange in itself, but I wondered how it could go along with a demonstrated capability to thoroughly perform difficult tasks. (I hope to be able to duplicate your steam cell treatment sometimes in the future, by the way.) People who give air to what unavoidable is percieved as negativity rarely show such commitment. I think I now better understand some of the depth behind it.

Among many other things, you write:

Having developed tinnitus has changed my outlook on life. Forever. Because of my experimental treatments, I have seen and interacted with other patient groups - some suffering immensely. And incurably. I have developed a disdain towards life.

And:

The continuation of life - with all the imperfections of biology and medicine - is a crime, in my opinion.

These are very dramatic conclusions. As a flip side to the coin, you write:

It gives me great pleasure that Man is begining to play "God" and undoing the imperfections of Mother Nature. Great pleasure.

As well as:

If things improve, I will gladly reconsider.

One way to understand you, is that humans have no choice but to perform the actions of a god. If they fail to do so, existence in itself is so flawed that it can not be justified. Indeed, cold and empty space would be preferable. Thus, trying to replace God on his throne long enough to rewrite some of His laws, seems to be the only action that holds any meaning at all.

Which brings us to this:

There is nothing else I can do. I do not have a joker card hidden up my sleeve (and which I can play at any moment should I want to).

I'm not convinced about this, as it seems to go against my idea of how the world works. What you could do is trying to figure out how T works. Understanding the machinery of His Holiness is the first and crucial step to usurp Him. There's no way this is impossible. Everything that is locked up within the frames of casuality must be possible to grasp.

Effort and time won't do for a joker in themselves. But together with a sufficient foundation of talent, they can be used to manufacture insights worthy of a genious. Such insights are, in my belief, the joker hidden up the sleeve for those with the right circumstances.

 

[Aziz Khan]

@Danny Boy what do you think of this guy Fernando king for

 

[Danny Boy]

@Danny Boy what do you think of this guy Fernando king for

Waste of money...

 

[Aziz Khan]

Waste of money...

I told you him but this guy Fernando was defensive about it

 

[Danny Boy]

I told you him but this guy Fernando was defensive about it

Brainwashed people lol

 

[Aziz Khan]

Brainwashed people lol

hahahahaha your so funny .. This laser is more like a torch . you can use it incase you were cut off electricity in your house

 

[Danny Boy]

hahahahaha your so funny .. This laser is more like a torch . you can use it incase you were cut off electricity in your house

I wouldn't waste money on this, they haven't even trialled this.

 

[Aziz Khan]

I wouldn't waste money on this, they haven't even trialled this.

hahah I know man lovely thread this place ... use laser therapy and if it doesn't work use it to light ur room. sheers

 

[Danny Boy]

hahahahahah I know man lovely thread this place ... use laser therapy and if it doesn't work use it to light up your house

Trobalt works, so Autifony will...Wasting money on this is silly.

 

[ruben ruiz]

I use Wildens Home Spa Unit. It feels good when your using it. When the duration is up it goes back to to T and H.
Some say it takes months or years, I dont know at this point. Just some relief thats all Im asking for. Relief without a litany of hideous side effects. Just let us escape our present existence. The cure can come later!

 

[rainman]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25797186/

Lucky i had this treatment, H has not returned after i went to clinic. This combined with keppra could demolish my misophonia but keppra is also not tested properly, should i not try to take it? Hell no, same with LLLT, all possible treatments are nor yet tested; we are the lab rats and test it out selves.

 

[japongus]

Also to inform that laser can do more damage to ear do not regenerate hair cells but there a case that maybe beneficial.That case is herpes in the inner ear. Have found that LLLT is effective against herpes and nothing else.
So if someone has acoustic trauma damage from antiobiotics there is no benefit only more damage maybe happen if someone has uknown type of T and the unknown cause is herpes maybe benefit but this case also covered partialy by antivirals like valacyclovir.
If someone responds partialy to valacyclovir maybe respond to LLLT.
If someone is infected from herpes the is no way to kill it completelly
he can sleep the virus but not kill it.
Most times herpes do relapse when someone has weak immune system
for example this can happen in situations of stress lack of sleep etc..
In a case of relapse the standard treatment is antivirals plus corticosteroids for very short time to reduce inflammation.
Many cases of menieries in reality was herpes and that proven by response to valacyclovir.

That's an interesting point you made there. There's a very real possibility the herpes is causing vertigo issues that get confused for Meniere's, and all the laser does is cure the herpes. So would you say they're just flat out lying when they say they've had cases of long term acoustic trauma hyperacusis they've cured?