Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[Nick J.]

1 month or so... but of course i never know if it hits the cochlea. Never heard any reaction.

Well there u go!..

But then 200 mW over such a big area is not much, just saying.

In regards to this, im pretty confident that he knows what he is doing.
Its the same distance iv seen other clinics use on youtube and the are all copying Wilden.
Like i said, u only need to penetrate a few cm of the skull.
And iv tried it and can confirm that stuff happens inside your ear after less the 30sec.

 

[Matthias]

Well there u go!..


In regards to this, im pretty confident that he knows what he is doing.
Its the same distance iv seen other clinics use on youtube and the are all copying Wilden.
Like i said, u only need to penetrate a few cm of the skull.
And iv tried it and can confirm that stuff happens inside your ear after less the 30sec.

What other (real )clinics are there ?

I am still very sceptical about this. If you see the home laser he sells. That device cannot cover much area or shine through the earlobe imo. And then he sells another regular laser pen for 1600 €.
It's all too heavily marketeered to be serious.

 

[Nick J.]

What other (real )clinics are there ?

I am still very sceptical about this. If you see the home laser he sells. That device cannot cover much area or shine through the earlobe imo. And then he sells another regular laser pen for 1600 €.
It's all too heavily marketeered to be serious.

His son has a clinic in Germany and there are Anna in Oslo (Norway)
There are others in prague and a few more countries i cant remember.

The device he sells covers the area it needs to.
I bought the one with the earpluglasers and if u adjust them correct so the point back and a bit down, u can hear the earcells respond right away, like the did with his strong laser in his office.

Even with these "weak" lasers i have, the will shine throug my fingers so it looks like the finger on E.T (the alien)
I cant even see my bone. Only bloodvessels (the biggest)
If i move the laser further down to my palm, it can shine throug my palm 3cm below the start of my fingers, so i can see light on the other side.
So i have to disagree with u.

But i cant really blame u for beeing sceptical.
I was like that myself to begin with and was not sure i was gonne buy the homelaser.
But after getting treatment in ibiza in his office and feel/hear the reaction in the ears, i pretty much knew this was not a scam!
Things happens just like in hansi's blog...u should read it if u havent.
Search for hansi cross tinnitus.

In this thread alone, me, Fernando, ATEOS has his device and can confirm its working and so are ppl on others blog saying aswell.
If thats not anough, then i guees u will just have to live with your tinnitus, like those kind ENT's always tells there patients
There are ofcourse other treatments with mixed results.
But imo no one will restore your hearing longterm like lasers and later on the T.

 

[Nick J.]

It's all too heavily marketeered to be serious.

Not sure what u mean by this!?

Does it mean u only would belive in it, if it was a secret that was locked away in a chamber deep below the Vatican??

Im sorry...but your reasoning makes absolut no sense to me.
Cuz this would mean that any product in the world that is "heavily marketed" is doomed to be bogus in your mind right?
If u have a good product, u should be hush hush about it and not tell any one, because why would u want to make money?? Everybody hates money. We all know that.
Also there are no honest ppl in the world that would want others to have an option to get better.
So any one offering such option, should do it for free. Otherwise its a scam right?

Do u think its cheap to design a device like this and the time and research behind this??
If u are not rich to begin with, u take a huge risk to try come up with something like this, since its also not gonna sell itself.
Why do u think visiting a doctor is so expensive?
Thats because it took forever for him to become a doctor and learn what he learned and only for the smartest/few ppl.
So it takes years and years where u dont make any money before becoming a doctor.

How much money do u think coca cola spends every year on commercials around the world??
Is the great taste of coke also fake then?

Dont u think Wilden wants to make some money, just like u and i, so he can have money for a vacation once in a while?
Maybe his is charging to much...who knows??
But if i was a specialist in something and had spend years and years on researching, testing, researching and testing some more, without make money on that and only could make a few bucks on the side on other work, cuz of lack of time, i think i would like to get paid down the road myself at one point.

This might now sound like im Dr. Wilden himself.
But if u really use your head and start thinking about how things REALLY works in the kapitalist world, then u will (i hope) realize how waaay off u are!

 

[Nick J.]

@All LLLT users

I was just reading through this study on LLLT i found on one of Wildens homepages, when i read what sounded like the sweetest music to my ears in a long long time

This was the link to the study...
http://www.rj-laser.com/english/laser_therapy_tinnitus.htm

Plz read the hole study for good measure.
Then pay close attention to the text right above the old guy getting LLLT in the ears...ill quote the text.

Quote :
We have noticed one rather substantial phenomenon of LLLT: so far no side effect has been reported. On the other hand, there is an interesting clinical finding in a certain group of patients (6 patients = 3 per cent), an acceleration of tinnitus after the first few LLLT procedures. Positive aspect of this phenomenon is that these patients have always belonged in the group with a massive effect of the therapy (more than 50 per cent relief, or even free of tinnitus at all). This clinical observation has been personally confirmed by other authors working at tinnitus treatment with the use of LLLT (Wilden)
End Quote.

This could possible mean that im in this 3% catagory since i got this crazy responds on day two at Wilden!
And iv had decent amount of weaker respondses thereafter and again when i started useing the homelaser.
This to my bring great hope and should do so to others who have had this kind of responds imo

Also note the average age in this study was a wooping 64 years!!
Of those, 69% had an above 50% reliéf after 3 years and this is in old ppl.
Consider what the results would be in younger ppl who regenerate much better and faster?
This Wilden also told me when i visited him and i couldent understand why he was almost laughing/grining when he told me not to worry, since i was still young and would heal pretty good. But now it kind of makes sense i guees.

 

[Seif Hafez]

So what do you think of it? Do you recommend?

 

[Nick J.]

@attheedgeofscience

Read this new Danish article...

http://videnskab.dk/krop-sundhed/fedtrig-kost-bremser-aldring-af-hjernen

Every one else should try and translate it.
The basic behind it, is that new studies shows that healthy fat like coconut oil can repair cells and restore hearing and also slow down the ageing of the brain.
This was kind of the discussion i had with Dr. Wilden and where he told me it was a waste of money to eat healthy oil and vitamins which i have been doing for at year now.
Only the LLLT would work was his claim and thats when i just gave up discussing these things with him!
He knows everything about LLLT and the inner ear, no doubt!
But he lacks the ability to look outside this little box he lives in and thats a big shame imo.

Anyway... Suck up some more knowledge ppl and start living more healthy, without sugar and plantbased oil, which leads to cancer among many other thing!



A Little teaser from the article…
Quote :In the study, one group of mice got a diet that mice normally thrive on. Another group of mice were given the same diet, but with additional fat in the form of concentrated coconut oil. A third group received 40 percent less eating. After a few weeks, the researchers tested the mice's hearing and genes in brain cells. The results showed that:

1. mice that had eaten a high-fat diet, had normal hearing again and all responded to loud sounds. At the same time showed a tissue sample that the mice had largely gotten all their cells back into their inner ear in the brain.

2. mice on a normal diet on the other hand had a moderate hearing loss. And only about half of the mice responded to a loud sound at 106 decibels.

3. mice given 40 percent less to eat, was completely deaf and did not respond to the sound.

4. the mice on the high fat diet had normalized their body weight and metabolism while mice receiving 40% less to eat was worsened their metabolism.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

So what do you think of it? Do you recommend?

Hi Seif
Try LLLT, for sure you should try......
If you get cured know body knows, but almost fo sure you will get some realif.

All the best

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi everybody, i´m in Norway for a 6 day treatment at Anne Harilla clinic.

First day.
What was the treatment....I don´t know.
I spend 4 hours lay down with all types of lazers you can imagine. I know at one time it 808 nm at 650 Mw. Really power session.

Now T is low, really low. Hope it goes up, meaning the treatment works.

Discussing as well what lazer to buy, to keep treatments in my house.

Anne is super, is all I can tell, she pick me up at the train station, take care of my acomodation, they pick up this morning at the guest house and bring me back. She is contacting some lazer manufactury to see best price and so on.

Her clinic is 2 minuts walk from Scandvika train sattion, that is direct to the airport.

Now see what happens on the next few days.

Tomorow I will take a pen with me so I can write down all terapy.

Today there was a lady making a T treatment as well. She was from Hawaii.....how far is that. Anne is getting people from all over the world to make T tretaments.

Cheers

 

[RaZaH]

@FERNANDO GIL . What kind of results are you expecting from this lllt treatment ?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Get better...need more power and diferent wavelenthts.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi
Back to Guest house, made my running with 5º celcius- Is low for me.....last week was 25º c in Portugal and went to the beach.

Ok
1st treatement with 904 nm / 240 mW behind the ear. ( is the laser from Irradia) one hour each ear.
after they made used a machine with suction to promote blood flow to the head.

2nd - 808nm / 660 mW inside the ear plus 650nm/ 100 Mw behind the ear at the same time 50 minutes

3rd - 820 nm/ ???mW for one hour at each ear

and last a 650nm/ 808 nm / ????mW pulsed (this have the two wave lenghts at the same time) but is done
outside the ear.

Total time around 4 hours each ear......heavy

T is low, and zings are back.

The lady from Hawaii that started the treatment yesterday said the T was up. Anne said good,. You should see her face.

Sheers

 

[Nick J.]

The lady from Hawaii that started the treatment yesterday said the T was up. Anne said good,. You should see her face.

LOL!...Epic
You would think people who travel this far to get a special "none proven" treatment like LLLT, would have researched a bit about how it worked, before even thinking about buying the planeticket!? Hehe

But that is some SERIOUS treatment u are getting...Holy cow!!
Funny the Zing starts on the second day like i told u it also did with me, when u change the wavelength.
Its like the cells needs a day to adjust or something.
Did u stop useing the MLS at home a few days before going??

Did you and Anna talk about taking a break after the last treatment and if so, for how long??

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Hi
Back to Guest house, made my running with 5º celcius- Is low for me.....last week was 25º c in Portugal and went to the beach.

Ok
1st treatement with 904 nm / 240 mW behind the ear. ( is the laser from Irradia) one hour each ear.
after they made used a machine with suction to promote blood flow to the head.

2nd - 808nm / 660 mW inside the ear plus 650nm/ 100 Mw behind the ear at the same time 50 minutes

3rd - 820 nm/ ???mW for one hour at each ear

and last a 650nm/ 808 nm / ????mW pulsed (this have the two wave lenghts at the same time) but is done
outside the ear.

Total time around 4 hours each ear......heavy

T is low, and zings are back.

The lady from Hawaii that started the treatment yesterday said the T was up. Anne said good,. You should see her face.

Sheers

Yes, a heavy schedule as we spoke about on the phone.

Would you be kind to remind the forum of the prices involved. I believe you mentioned EUR 120,- per session? Or is that per hour? My impression is that it is less expensive than Dr. Wilden's therapy.

Did you have an audiology test at the Norwegian clinic? I believe there is a doctor at the clinic - did you meet him or just Anne Harila herself?

Feel free to post a photo if you can.

Thanks.

 

[Shambles]

Hi all..im seriously thinking of trying this treatment. Im just wondering if anybody had heard about or tried the aenorta clinics in spain. See www.sinacufenos.info
They have four clinics in Spain. Any thoughts?

 

[Nick J.]

Hi all..im seriously thinking of trying this treatment. Im just wondering if anybody had heard about or tried the aenorta clinics in spain. See www.sinacufenos.info
They have four clinics in Spain. Any thoughts?

U should definitely do it if u have the money. But im pretty sure u are not gonna get much feedback in here on that site.
Its in Spanish only, from what i can tell and there is no mention on what kind of laser/lasers the use.
So what i would suggest, was to go see Dr. Wilden in Ibiza.
This is your best option in my mind, if u dont like to travel to far away and wonna be sure to get some results.
Second option would be to go and get same treatment as Fernando is getting ATM!
U can find really cheap tickets to Oslo from spain im sure, if u look on Norwegian.com/es/
And the treatment in Oslo is almost half the price of ibiza...so depending on the number of treatment u want, u can really save some money and get more treatment in Oslo i think!
But Fernando needs to answer the price question first to be sure!

Good luck

 

[Shambles]

Many thanks Nick J. I live in Valencia and they have a clinic here so I might just go there and see what kind of lasers they are using. They say 3 months of home therapy is the approach. Anyways I´ll make an appointment and get pricing and stuff for you guys. Something in my home town is obviously preferable. By the way a ferry journey starting my tinnitus so no ferry to Ibiza for me!

Thanks again

 

[Nick J.]

Many thanks Nick J. I live in Valencia and they have a clinic here so I might just go there and see what kind of lasers they are using. They say 3 months of home therapy is the approach. Anyways I´ll make an appointment and get pricing and stuff for you guys. Something in my home town is obviously preferable. By the way a ferry journey starting my tinnitus so no ferry to Ibiza for me!

Thanks again

Yaa... Sounds like a good idea to show up at the clinic and ask for prices, what kinds of lasers (wavelength and poweroutput) and how the are planning on treating u. Cuz if the talk about home use, then u either have to borrow a laser or buy one from them!
But 3 month is not gonna cut it imo, unless u have a very mild tinnitus, or just some earpresure or something along that line. Mild hearingloss is also possible to treat within this timeframe maybe, if u have some really powerfull lasertreatment.
But otherwise u need to expect anything from 6-24month of constant home threapy, if we are talking bad tinnitus. Thats what im expecting myself, since its such a slow progres.

Yes ferry to Ibiza is not a good idea! It takes forever!
So obv. u wonna fly and a ticket to Ibiza is also super cheap and it only takes a little more then one hour from Barcelona.

How did u get T on a ferry...from the horn??

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

LOL!...Epic
You would think people who travel this far to get a special "none proven" treatment like LLLT, would have researched a bit about how it worked, before even thinking about buying the planeticket!? Hehe

But that is some SERIOUS treatment u are getting...Holy cow!!
Funny the Zing starts on the second day like i told u it also did with me, when u change the wavelength.
Its like the cells needs a day to adjust or something.
Did u stop useing the MLS at home a few days before going??

Did you and Anna talk about taking a break after the last treatment and if so, for how long??

A break,,,,,,,must be kidding, We had dinner today, and some talk a lot about Dr Wilden as well.
That is the part she doesn´t agree with Dt Wilden.

You could say for her " the show must go on", stoping is a waist of time, she says that most of studies she reads are made on mices, and then she ask,,,,,,how many mices you have inside a humam body. Of corse if she had more lazers with diferent wave lenghts you can bet you would be treated all day.

Today was the same as yesterday but we changed the sequencies of the lazers used.

A hospital in China the tretaments last all day.

Of corse I will take a break for a few days, must how can I say someone that is treating T for the last 25 years that she is wrong. The felling I have is that most of there patients are fot T.

Had a talk with the lady from Hawaii, she found out about Anne at Sam and Hansi Cross, blogs.
She had T on low frequencies for a few years but nothing loud, then during a theeth operation a high frequencie T apeared.

One last note, at dinner time I taped my ears and there was no T. Now at night time here it is.

Sheers

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Did u stop useing the MLS at home a few days before going??

NO

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Would you be kind to remind the forum of the prices involved. I believe you mentioned EUR 120,- per session? Or is that per hour? My impression is that it is less expensive than Dr. Wilden's therapy.

That is the price she gave me, but I will confirm tomorow. But I feek is per treatement.

Did you have an audiology test at the Norwegian clinic? I believe there is a doctor at the clinic - did you meet him or just Anne Harila herself?

No just Anne. I explained her and show my previous audigrams, and here you go.
I think for her is power lasering.
And in a way i think she is right. If you see Sam and Hansi blogs, they stay on MLS for 1/2 years to get better, and 6 months after coming to Anne, they said they were almost cured. So I do really think she i right.

Sheers

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi all..im seriously thinking of trying this treatment. Im just wondering if anybody had heard about or tried the aenorta clinics in spain. See www.sinacufenos.info
They have four clinics in Spain. Any thoughts?

Hi
During our dinner, Anne talked about a clinic in Baecelona that makes LLLT
I will try to find out tomorow if these ones.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Many thanks Nick J. I live in Valencia and they have a clinic here so I might just go there and see what kind of lasers they are using. They say 3 months of home therapy is the approach. Anyways I´ll make an appointment and get pricing and stuff for you guys. Something in my home town is obviously preferable. By the way a ferry journey starting my tinnitus so no ferry to Ibiza for me!

Thanks again

do thtat, please check what lazers they are using

 

[Nick J.]

A break,,,,,,,must be kidding, We had dinner today, and some talk a lot about Dr Wilden as well.
That is the part she doesn´t agree with Dt Wilden.

But i HAD to ask, since everybody talks about these long breaks after high dose treatment and u are not getting high dose!! U are getting Ultra massive insane dose!!!
So according to some of those people who writes blogs about LLLT, u should take minimum 1 year break after this (ironic)...
You also told me yourself that u do 5 days on and 2 days of...are u gonna start doing every day now when u get home??

I dont know how this thing about breaks ever came up!
Cuz like i said before, Wilden told me in Ibiza, that there was no biologic reason to do breaks.
So thats why i treat myself every day, not to waste any time.
So it seems more like the have the same oppinion on this matter!
I wonder who wilden told to do breaks?
I guees maybe hansi was told this. Otherwise it makes no sense where he would come up with the idea.
But i can only say that Wilden told me the oppesit.

The felling I have is that most of there patients are fot T.

U have to correct this sentence! The word "fot" could be both "Not or For" and depending on which one, this changes the meaning of the hole sentence

That is the price she gave me, but I will confirm tomorow. But I feek is per treatement.

I think u are right!
Cuz it would be at little crazy to charge u 120€ x 4hours/day x 5 days without explaining this to u.
But on the other hand, it sems crazy cheap for 4 hours treatment with all those kinds of lasers when u compare with Wilden!
That makes me feel a little bit robbed/cheated if u will.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

That is the price she gave me, but I will confirm tomorow.

Thanks.

 

[Shambles]

Hey guys...Fernando...i will see the clinic here in Valencia in the next few weeks..Thry are part of the same group as clinics in other parts of Spain and likely the one in Barcelona.
Nick j..i would classify my t as moderate..it can be masked with a medium level of music or white noise but like everyone here i want those perfect moments of quiet back..my t came on actually a severe bout of seasickness on a ferry..not the horn..but good guess!

 

[Nick J.]

my t came on actually a severe bout of seasickness on a ferry..not the horn..but good guess!

Hmm.. Seems like there is no end to the things u can get tinnitus from, when u read about people in this forum!
So have u got a audiogram that confirms u have normal hearing or have u lost some of that to??

 

[Nick J.]

@FERNANDO GIL

Im wondering how u are now gonna use your MLS when u get back home, after your new insight into dose and time of treatment.
Will it be 7 days a week now and 1-2 hours a day or what are u thinking??

I used mine the first 9 days for 40min. every 12hours. Morning and night.
But then i got some pulsating pain in the ear, like i sometimes also had before the treatment actually and that made me go down to only 40min. one time a day for a few days and then i started up on the 2x40min again.
But this time i have changed things, so i now do 40min. into the ears with the earplugs like the are suppose to and the next 40min. behind the ears and this has really spiked the T again.
Now im back to really high pitch T even if i eat betaserc and also alot of ziiings and biibs all day.
But no pain!
Of course im not sure the pain was from over use...but i like the new rutine and will keep doing it for now.
Iv just got a new appointment for a audiogram by the same ENT here in Malta as from who i got my first one done before going to Wilden!
Cant wait to see the result, even if its only meassuring up to 8KHz.
But im also affraid that i might get dissapointed.
It will be the 24 of November, before leaving the island!

 

[Shambles]

Hmm.. Seems like there is no end to the things u can get tinnitus from, when u read about people in this forum!
So have u got a audiogram that confirms u have normal hearing or have u lost some of that to??

I´ve got some hearing loss at higher frequencies although I spent a number of years going to very unregulated raves in the 1990´s which might explain that!
After the ferry journey, I got bouts of dizziness and then the t slowly came in- intermittent at first and then maybe 2 weeks later constant.
Therefore I feel it is more cochlear in nature so am focussing on such treatments (ie LLLT).
What about you dude? By the way I used to live in Msida in Malta- many fond memories of that quirky and cool little island

 

[Nick J.]

I´ve got some hearing loss at higher frequencies although I spent a number of years going to very unregulated raves in the 1990´s which might explain that!
After the ferry journey, I got bouts of dizziness and then the t slowly came in- intermittent at first and then maybe 2 weeks later constant.
Therefore I feel it is more cochlear in nature so am focussing on such treatments (ie LLLT).
What about you dude? By the way I used to live in Msida in Malta- many fond memories of that quirky and cool little island

Are u still getting the dizziness from time to time?
Cuz from the things iv been reading, LLLT seems really good for undoing those kinds of symptoms.
But nomatter what, u will always benefit from doing the treatment and improve your hearing.
Only question is how much and if your T will go down in strength and that i think, is more a question of how persistent u are in your routine over time.

I got my T from fireworks as a kid. Then even more from 8 years in the army and now the worst damage from a conzert her in Malta... ZZzzzz

Yaa Malta can be a cool litte place.
But i live in the heart of St. Julians and im getting a bit tired of all the noisepollution every day and all the filth and garbage in the streets from idiots who doesn't know how to use a trashcan!!
So im not sure im coming back within the next couple of years.