Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[briano]

---Dear Dr. Wilden,
I've used the laser for 5 days. Here is my feedback:
During the 5 days I have experienced a "fullness" feeling in my ears. It comes and goes throughout the day. When it is not there, I feel a little more clarity and a little less ear pressure. Periodically, I hear a tinnitus hiss sound. The hiss is not too bad. How should I proceed?

Dear Brian,
Thank you for your feedback. You are feeling osmotic processes inside the lymph system of your inner ear organ. This is connected with more or less strong changings of the oedema inside your inner ear organs and it is a classical positive reaction of your inner ear organs to the biostimulative effectiveness of our Lux Spa Home Laser. Continue with a 30 min. daily session and do not forget to protect yourself against daily loudness. Give me your feedback after 10 more days of home therapy.

---Honestly, I don't really know what all of this means. However, it seems like my experience is what he expected and that my reaction to the laser is positive. I'll report back in 10 days unless something major happens.

 

[emre]

Hello,

I wanted to ask if anyone or anyone that you know has every used Konftec and what is your experience with it?

 

[briano]

15 day update: I forgot to post this on Tuesday.

I said this: Dear Dr. Wilden, I have just completed the 10 days of therapy that you recommended. In total, I've done 15 days of therapy in a row. After the last 10 days, I've noticed that sounds seem to be a lot louder than before. I wear my ear plugs at church and at the gym because of the noise. I don't know if this is hyperacusis or not. The tightness feeling that I felt around my left ear has been reduced. It seems like my tinnitus hiss and fullness feeling have been reduced too. I'm definitely having a reaction to the laser. How should I proceed now?

Dr. Wilden said this: You are describing the first days of your Home Therapy very well. Do not worry that you are hearing every thing around you louder than before. It is an improvement of your hearing capacity, not hyperacusis.

For example, you would see less dirt before having a therapy for your eyes, than after, in which you would see more dirt on the street. You are now listening to the acoustic dirt around you more than before your Home Therapy. The improvement of your hearing capacity is the clear sign that the biological quality of your hearing cells are improving. All of your other inner ear emergency signals are improving paralell to this as well.

I recommend 2 treatment times of 20 min. daily and also to take 1 or 2 days off to give your ears time without a therapy.

*Please note: I've corrected some of Dr. Wilden's grammar. Sometimes, he will use "is" instead of "are" and things like that. He hasn't quite mastered the English language. I figured that I'd let you know this in case you ever correspond with him.

 

[briano]

Quick update: From today.

I've noticed something new that's pretty exciting. After taking two days off from the treatment, I started the new 2 x 20 min. per day recommendation. After each 20 min. treatment, the hearing loss/numbness sensation that I've felt in my left ear everyday for the past few years goes away. This "clear feeling" lasts about 30 - 60 min. I just had my 3rd (20 min. treatment), and again, I don't feel that numbness feeling that I've had in my left ear since noise exposure took some of my hearing away. Honestly, I don't know if I'm just more relaxed now or if the laser is doing this. Either way, the "clear/normal feeling" that I get for that period of time is absolutely wonderful! I'm not gonna shout this out on a roof top yet. To me, the real proof will be in an audiogram. However, it truly does feel like something is happening. I'm also getting some high pitched frequencies in my ears throughout the day. I've heard that this is normal throughout the treatment. They are not that bad. I can deal with them. This could be something great or it could nothing. Either way, I just wanted to let you know what I am currently going through.

 

[Bobby B]

Good stuff ! Yes hearing improvements , sound quality changes and changes in hyperacusis or sound sensitivity is what you should monitor for the first weeks&months

T will go up and down during the treatment and it may not be cured but may eventually become a bit softer but it's going to take time maybe a year or two

Keep us updated and let us know what Wilden says - good luck !

 

[Rings-a-Bell]

If you don't want to wait for an audiogram but you are feeling changes, you might use an audiogram app on your phone or ipad. It won't be calibrated so forget the absolute values it gives you... just look at how measurements that you make on it change over time relative to previous readings that you take with it.

 

[briano]

If you don't want to wait for an audiogram but you are feeling changes, you might use an audiogram app on your phone or ipad. It won't be calibrated so forget the absolute values it gives you... just look at how measurements that you make on it change over time relative to previous readings that you take with it.

Thanks for the tip! I can't do an audiogram every month at my ENT because that could get expensive. I am going to do one every 3 months or so at the same place where I've been going just to be consistent. However, if I feel that there is a significant change in my hearing, I will go sooner rather than later. And if I don't have the money at that time, I will do an app like you suggested. Right now, my hearing is all over the place. After the treatment, my ears feel clear. About an hour later, they feel a bit stuffy again. Throughout the day, the high frequency tinnitus noise makes an appearance and then goes away. I don't think my ears are stable enough for a test just yet. I contacted Dr. Wilden and he explained what was going on and that it was all good. I don't understand all of what he said but it does seem good. After doing this twice daily treatment, I'll report back to him again. I'll be sure to update you guys.

 

[Rings-a-Bell]

I have found that even when my tinnitus spikes or changes, my actual hearing test doesn't change that much. For some reason I find this immensely relieving.

 

[GregCA]

I found the app that I use (Mimi hearing test on iOS) to be surprisingly accurate.

 

[briano]

I found the app that I use (Mimi hearing test on iOS) to be surprisingly accurate.

I just got that app. I'll give a try this week. Thanks!

 

[Coleoptere]

I was wondering what will happen once the LLLT treatment is stopped. Will then everything become stable? Or will it stay with ups and downs?

 

[briano]

I was wondering what will happen once the LLLT treatment is stopped. Will then everything become stable? Or will it stay with ups and downs?

I've heard that your hearing will become stable.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I just got that app. I'll give a try this week. Thanks!

my results with mimi are MUCH worse than my audiograms from the ENT.

 

[briano]

my results with mimi are MUCH worse than my audiograms from the ENT.

Ugh. I guess it can't hurt for me to try it. I'm still going to get a new audiogram at my normal ENT after 3 months. I want my testing to be consistent.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Ugh. I guess it can't hurt for me to try it. I'm still going to get a new audiogram at my normal ENT after 3 months. I want my testing to be consistent.

I think its fine to use it against itself. Maybe use it today and then in a month. You saw my audiogram though, my worse dip is at like 25db. Mimi had me at 40 + across the board.

 

[GregCA]

my results with mimi are MUCH worse than my audiograms from the ENT.

What headphones do you use for the test? They can't calibrate with all of them, so you're likely to be more accurate if you use the kind they've calibrated (there's a handful of them I think, including what ships with the iPhone ).

 

[Tom Cnyc]

What headphones do you use for the test? They can't calibrate with all of them, so you're likely to be more accurate if you use the kind they've calibrated (there's a handful of them I think, including what ships with the iPhone ).

I actually just ran my test on mimi and it came back much closer to expected. The last times I did it at my office, which runs white noise machines. Today I'm home (which is far from soundproof) but most of my ranges came back closer to expected, despite being higher.

As to the headphones - I'm using very high quality studio headphones, similar to the sennheisers that they list. I doubt its far off.

 

[GregCA]

I actually just ran my test on mimi and it came back much closer to expected. The last times I did it at my office, which runs white noise machines. Today I'm home (which is far from soundproof) but most of my ranges came back closer to expected, despite being higher.

Cool. I too notice that the environment during the test makes a big difference. I live within a few miles of an airport, and if a jet happens to fly by when I take the test, I often have to wait/pause, and resume later. I get the most accurate readings when the environment is super-quiet, as you would expect.

 

[Coleoptere]

Nice recent, investigation:

https://peerj.com/articles/2252.pdf

808 Nm did the trick.

 

[emre]

How do we make sure that the laser is pointed towards the inner ear hair cells? When I put the ear plugs of the LLLT machine in my ear, the laser may be pointed to somewhere different. This is why I am tilting slightly during the procedure to increase the area covered.

 

[briano]

I just emailed Dr. Wilden about my progress. I've started the LLLT treatment on 10/3/16. Here is a quick update on my progress: All sounds are louder in both ears, the physical "blocky/numb feeling" in my left ear is mostly gone, and I periodically have high pitched tinnitus sounds in my ears that come and go throughout the day. Dr. Wilden assures me that what I am feeling are all signs of healing and hearing restoration. One thing that I can tell you for certain is that the laser is causing the 3 things that I mentioned above. I'm sure of that. Hopefully, the outcome of all of this will be restored hearing. I guess I'll find that out for sure after I get a new audiogram in a few months.

Here is my email from today and his response:

Dear Dr. Wilden,
It's been 12 days of me using the (20 minute laser therapy twice per day). Here is my update: All sounds continue to be much louder than they were before I started using the laser. The "numbness and physical feeling" in my left ear is mostly gone. At times, I have some high pitched tinnitus sounds in my ears but it comes and goes. My ears feel best right after the treatment.
Thank you,
Brian

Dear Brian,
Thank you for your feedback. Now you can fully accept that LLLT can regenerate nerve cells. The regeneration is constantly improving all cell functions of all inner ear cells. This means that you can now relax into the fact that our LLLT is working on your ears in a positive way. I recommend to you to follow your own feelings about treatment (nobody knows your ears better than you do) and to respect more and more how strong your hearing cells are working to make themselves better every day.
On www.dasgesundeohr.de / engl.version there on new texts on "the therapy......" you see can see the development very well in relation to your audiogram.
We'll stay in contact. All the best, L.W.

I'm going to take another 2 day rest and then do another 10 days of (20 min. x 2 per day) treatment. I'll update you again, after that.

 

[briano]

How do we make sure that the laser is pointed towards the inner ear hair cells? When I put the ear plugs of the LLLT machine in my ear, the laser may be pointed to somewhere different. This is why I am tilting slightly during the procedure to increase the area covered.

Honestly, I just stick in the ear buds until they feel like they are secured.

 

[Bobby B]

Nice recent, investigation:

https://peerj.com/articles/2252.pdf

808 Nm did the trick.

Good find ! This is a very recent study - which closes the debate on wavelengths since 808nm penetrates well and worked fine here and they could have used any other wavelengths but 808 penetrates deep enough to do the trick .

 

[VRZ78]

Does someone know what the second sentence means ?

The bilateral laser therapy group showed faster functional recovery at all tested
frequencies compared with the unilateral laser therapy group. However, there was no
difference in the endpoint ABR results or final hair cell survival, which was analyzed
histologically.

 

[VRZ78]

Does the Lucky Laser also come with ear buds ? It seems harder to place and operate than the Konftec of te one from Dr Wildren...

emre did you notice any change in your T or H (If you have it) with the Konftec ?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Does someone know what the second sentence means ?

The bilateral laser therapy group showed faster functional recovery at all tested
frequencies compared with the unilateral laser therapy group. However, there was no
difference in the endpoint ABR results or final hair cell survival, which was analyzed
histologically.

using a 2 sided approach as opposed to treating one ear at a time showed faster functional recovery (as in they could hear better - my guess is an audiogram), however at the end of treatment an auditory brainstem scan - which is how they test the hearing of babies - showed no difference in the number of neurons firing.

 

[GregCA]

Does someone know what the second sentence means ?

The bilateral laser therapy group showed faster functional recovery at all tested
frequencies compared with the unilateral laser therapy group. However, there was no
difference in the endpoint ABR results or final hair cell survival, which was analyzed
histologically.

The way I understand it is: if you treat 2 ears instead of one, you'll get to the end point faster, but the end point won't be any better than if you treated 1 ear. It's just that you get there faster.

 

[emre]

@VRZ78 I just started using it. So far, no change.

 

[Coleoptere]

How do we make sure that the laser is pointed towards the inner ear hair cells? When I put the ear plugs of the LLLT machine in my ear, the laser may be pointed to somewhere different. This is why I am tilting slightly during the procedure to increase the area covered.

It is a point of attention. In the investigation below they also seem to use the Konftec laser (it looks like one) but replaced the standard ear buds with a personalised imprints of the ear canal and guided the light with fiber. See page 3 for a picture. Not totally sure though it is a Konftec as these are 660nm and in the investigation it is 650nm. Maybe somebody can correct me by telling which brand it is....

https://bib.irb.hr/datoteka/739932.LOW_LEVEL_LASER_THERAPY_LLLT_FOR_CHRONIC_TINNITUS.pdf

 

[Reinier]

However, there was no
difference in the endpoint ABR results or final hair cell survival, which was analyzed
histologically.

Does this imply Placebo effect?