Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[Pitseleh]

EDIT: Reading back now, I might have been a bit blunt in my last post. I didn't mean to put you down or anything, it's just the way I write. I'm thinking about making a post or maybe even a thread, probably a post though, where I can direct people to that has all my suggestions about the lasers in a cohesive and brief way.

I would definitely be interested in reading your post.

 

[GBB]

I suggest you read more about the lasers, if nowhere else then on this forum. You'd know the answer to this question even if you'd done brief research. Most people advocating for the laser state that first spikes are good. Even I get small, maybe 20% intensity, spike, after all these years, while but only while I do the laser and not anymore after it. I think some of my latest posts on the laser threads have been good, some tidbits and information on what I've learned.

I mentioned also in one of my latest posts after a poster in a laser thread got a major spike, that I started with 5 minutes of the laser myself. I had the foresight to do that even over 2 years ago when nobody mentioned it. It's good to start your supplements slow too. I take a spec of them starting out, there's no downside to this and major upside of when you get bad side effects not ruining yourself were you to get bad side effects.

Definitely don't do the 808nm 30 minutes like you did the 660nm, even though that's what Konftec suggests. Not that it'll damage you but it'll freak you out more if even the 660nm did, because the 808nm is almost twice as powerful. So yeah I'll reiterate what I mentioned to my first post to you, you need to do more research. I spent a lot of time reading about this treatment before I even purchased the laser. It's just impractical also to type out everything for every new person again and again.

EDIT: Reading back now, I might have been a bit blunt in my last post. I didn't mean to put you down or anything, it's just the way I write. I'm thinking about making a post or maybe even a thread, probably a post though, where I can direct people to that has all my suggestions about the lasers in a cohesive and brief way.

No worries - I agree a single post would go a long way if you felt up to it.

Any way you can ping me the basics? I did 10 minutes today at the same setting after taking a rest day yesterday. Much appreciated!

 

[weab00]

Seems to me (although I haven't done amazingly extensive research) that LLLT or "cold laser therapy" is taking off here in the USA, for other things than tinnitus.

Even this post from the Center for ENT sounds willing to admit there is evidence of it working.
https://www.centerforent.com/blog/may-hope-tinnitus-sufferers

Are there clinics or doctors willing to do LLLT in America? Or are people just going with home treatment (Konftec, Dr. Wilden's device)? I'd like to find a clinic if I could, although I know much of the USA is still in kind of shut-down due to COVID-19.

I think most chiros have some form of LLLT, usually lasers in the range of $3-4k. And they charge $60 uncovered by insurance per session.

 

[weab00]

I tried LLLT for the first time with my chiropractor today (I have hyperacusis and tinnitus), and the one glaring problem was that the beep of the laser felt way too loud.

Anyone else run into this problem?

I asked my chiro if the volume could be changed and he said it couldn't. Not sure if I should continue this treatment or not...

 

[GBB]

I tried LLLT for the first time with my chiropractor today (I have hyperacusis and tinnitus), and the one glaring problem was that the beep of the laser felt way too loud.

Anyone else run into this problem?

I asked my chiro if the volume could be changed and he said it couldn't. Not sure if I should continue this treatment or not...

My Konftec does not beep and that's what a lot of people use for at home. Btw did you have a spike after the laser? Each time I do I get a spike which people say is normal but curious if it applies to commercial lasers on medical practices as well.

 

[weab00]

My Konftec does not beep and that's what a lot of people use for at home. Btw did you have a spike after the laser? Each time I do I get a spike which people say is normal but curious if it applies to commercial lasers on medical practices as well.

I did have a spike and pain from the hyperacusis but I think it was due to the loud beeping. I don't think I'll be continuing that treatment because of the noise.

 

[Lane]

I did have a spike and pain from the hyperacusis but I think it was due to the loud beeping.

Hi @weaboo -- Sorry to hear about your spike. If I were in your position, I'd drop it like a hot potato.

 

[Rberg]

Just found this on the web...

 

[GBB]

Just found this on the web...

For some reason all of the positive LLLT research seems to come from Korea. Not saying that invalidates it but I swear every paper I read demonstrating notable benefit comes from there.

 

[Rberg]

Just got off the phone with Candace at Lumomed in Sarasota... ordered my $3500
LUCI BASIC THE MOBILE THERAPY SYSTEM!!!

Actually the device was invented and has been used in Europe for quite some time...

I will let you know how it works...

Tired of dealing with this for the past 35 years...

https://www.lumomed.com/en/lumomed-home-therapy-laser/

 

[GBB]

Just got off the phone with Candace at Lumomed in Sarasota... ordered my $3500
LUCI BASIC THE MOBILE THERAPY SYSTEM!!!

Actually the device was invented and has been used in Europe for quite some time...

I will let you know how it works...

Tired of dealing with this for the past 35 years...

https://www.lumomed.com/en/lumomed-home-therapy-laser/

I profoundly hope you get some relief! Please keep me in the loop.

 

[zacfurther]

LLLT ruined my life, read the story on my profile page under "Information".

 

[Frédéric]

Efficacy of Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus: A Systematic Review with Meta-Analysis and Trial Sequential Analysis

Objective:
Tinnitus is a common disorder characterized by sound in the ear in the absence of external or internal stimuli. Low-level laser therapy (LLLT) was discovered enhancing tissue repair via increasing the blood microcirculation and cell proliferation in 1960s. In the last two decades, LLLT delivered to the cochlea has frequently been used to reduce the severity of tinnitus. However, whether LLLT effectively attenuates the severity of tinnitus remains controversial. We aimed to evaluate the efficacy of low-level laser therapy on adult patients with complaints of tinnitus.

Design:
Systematic review and meta-analysis with trial sequential analysis. Interventions: Low-level laser therapy (LLLT). Measurements: Tinnitus Handicap Inventory (THI) score; improvement rates of the visual analog scale (VAS), verbal rating scale (VRS) and numeric rating scale (NRS) scores.

Methods:
We searched PubMed, Embase, Scopus, Web of Science, and the Cochrane Library from inception through 17 September 2020. Randomized control trials that involved adult patients with complaints of tinnitus, compared LLLT to a placebo and provided sufficient information for meta-analysis were considered eligible. Main

Results:
Overall, 11 studies involving 670 patients were included. No significant difference in the overall effect according to the THI score (mean difference (MD), −2.85; 95% CI, −8.99 to 3.28; p = 0.362; I2 = 0%) and the rating scale score improvement rate (risk ratio (RR), 1.35; 95% CI, 0.81 to 2.27; p = 0.250; I2 = 67%) was demonstrated between patients receiving LLLT and those receiving a placebo. None of the subgroup analyses showed significant differences, regardless of underlying sensorineural hearing loss, the number of irradiation sessions or the wavelength used.

Conclusions:
Our meta-analysis suggests that the value of LLLT in controlling the severity of tinnitus remains unclear, in part due to the relatively small number of patients and underlying heterogeneity. More large-scale investigations of LLLT for tinnitus related to inner ear disease are required to further elucidate the therapeutic effects.

Full article, see attached PDF.

 

[ThomasRobert]

Erchonia® HLS™ for the Relief of Tinnitus Symptoms

Trial is Active, scheduled to finish in January 2022.

This study is to see if applying red low-level laser light can help to reduce tinnitus symptoms.

A Pilot Evaluation of the Effect of the Erchonia® HLS™ for the Relief of Tinnitus Symptoms

 

[briano]

Looking forward to seeing the results!

 

[AfroSnowman]

Looking forward to seeing the results!

Call me cynical but, 5 participants, no control, THI as the measurement. I'm pretty sure this will come back with a result they can use in marketing.

 

[Taw]

Hello, I have read a lot of posts here and most of them are about tinnitus. But are there any noxacusis cases which improved using LLLT? I would like a buy a lamp from RedLight man, something like this:

https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-mini-830/

I want to improve my hyperacusis pain, the pain is the one which bothers me almost non stop. Constant burning sharpening pain (noxacusis sufferers know about them).

Many said that the pain exists because of the inflammation and a RedLight device might reduce the inflammation. Also it's safer than the ones inserted into the ears.

Thanks.

 

[lapidus]

But are there any noxacusis cases which improved using LLLT?

Here's one:

https://hyperacusisresearch.org/low-level-laser-therapy/

 

[Taw]

Here's one:

https://hyperacusisresearch.org/low-level-laser-therapy/

Thanks, I know that story and I am really happy for that person (she is part of a Facebook group also). But that LLLT with small part inserted into the ear caused many troubles to other people and some of them never recovered. That's why I am willing to try the lamp, because it seems more safe.

 

[TomStrong]

Does anybody know the best LLLT clinic in Europe? Is Dr. Wilden the best? I got tinnitus 2.5 months ago after damage caused by labyrinthitis. Please help

I've had good progress so far. Here is my short post:

Tinnitus as a Result of Labyrinthitis — Here's What I've Already Tried, What Else Could I Try?

 

[EDDTEKK]

I can't recommend Dr. Wilden LLLT. I tried and spent a hell of money and there was absolutely no improvement in my tinnitus or hearing. I bought his laser pen which also had no effect. Don't spend your money on this. It's just placebo.

 

[Travis Henry]

Again, do not do LLLT. In my opinion it will make things worse. It did for me. Ruined my life. Damaged my already damaged system.

 

[scotty03874]

Again, do not do LLLT. In my opinion it will make things worse. It did for me. Ruined my life. Damaged my already damaged system.

It definitely helped me a lot in 9/2019. 15 sessions...

 

[SaraK18]

Again, do not do LLLT. In my opinion it will make things worse. It did for me. Ruined my life. Damaged my already damaged system.

@Travis Henry, sorry to hear that. What type of laser did you use, and for how long?

 

[Bdnp12]

Hey guys. I was forced into LLLT, also known as cold therapy, when my dad deceived me into seeing a chiro. I didn't even know till I was there.

I got antibiotic-induced tinnitus, and it was healing naturally, I got to a point where life was becoming more normal. I didn't need this treatment. However, two days after my tinnitus and hyperacusis have sky rocketed. And I have pain behind the ear that wasn't there before. The chiro said the laser was on the lowest level.

Has anyone had such a spike and will it settle or am I done for?

I can't believe I'm back to hell when I worked so hard to get out of it before.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Hey guys. I was forced into LLLT, also known as cold therapy, when my dad deceived me into seeing a chiro. I didn't even know till I was there.

I got antibiotic-induced tinnitus, and it was healing naturally, I got to a point where life was becoming more normal. I didn't need this treatment. However, two days after my tinnitus and hyperacusis have sky rocketed. And I have pain behind the ear that wasn't there before. The chiro said the laser was on the lowest level.

Has anyone had such a spike and will it settle or am I done for?

I can't believe I'm back to hell when I worked so hard to get out of it before.

Others have had spikes the same as you did from the laser and most of the time it does get better over time. Obviously don't go back again.

 

[10Kcd]

Has anyone had such a spike and will it settle or am I done for?

Hi @Bdnp12 - first off, I'm sorry you're experiencing such a strong spike/setback. I don't know details about your LLLT experience (strength of laser, time of treatment, number of sessions, etc) but as @SmallRonnie stated, many do report these types of spikes, and they tend to be temporary.

I've just been experimenting with at-home LLLT, alternating between 660 nm and 808 nm laser headsets. I documented my first 10 days of treatment (all sessions between 8-18 minutes) on p. 12 of this thread and if you choose to read through, you'll see that I experienced very minimal spiking most nights after treatment, including a several day stretch of baseline increase.

It sounds like your spiking may be more severe than anything I experienced, and again, it is very likely temporary. That said, and especially since your onset was quite recent and you were just getting to a place of stability, I can only imagine how demoralizing this must be for you.

Wishing you nothing but the best - hang in there!

 

[scotty03874]

Hey guys. I was forced into LLLT, also known as cold therapy, when my dad deceived me into seeing a chiro. I didn't even know till I was there.

I got antibiotic-induced tinnitus, and it was healing naturally, I got to a point where life was becoming more normal. I didn't need this treatment. However, two days after my tinnitus and hyperacusis have sky rocketed. And I have pain behind the ear that wasn't there before. The chiro said the laser was on the lowest level.

Has anyone had such a spike and will it settle or am I done for?

I can't believe I'm back to hell when I worked so hard to get out of it before.

It should settle down...

 

[juliob]

I am considering LLLT in a nearby town. I would need to rent a place on Airbnb or something due to the distance.

Can LLLT help serotonin/antidepressant induced tinnitus or is there at least a theoretical justification for this to help with antidepressant induced tinnitus?

I ask because my first tone appeared when I started Sertraline and then a second tone appeared when I updosed to 150 mg.

 

[10Kcd]

Can LLLT help serotonin/antidepressant induced tinnitus or is there at least a theoretical justification for this to help with antidepressant induced tinnitus?

I'm sure others may have input on this. I've been self-treating with LLLT at home about 4 months after an acoustic trauma, and have seen a positive correlation between the LLLT and a reduction in my tinnitus and sound sensitivity. I really can't say for sure if it's just natural healing, or the LLLT.

My understanding is that LLLT is most beneficial in a relatively acute window (3-6 months) after an acoustic trauma. I really don't know whether it would benefit you in your case.

Something to consider: if you are going to be traveling, paying money to a clinic and renting an Airbnb, it might be worth checking out the Konftec site to compare the difference in price between all of that and simply buying your own device, which you'd be able to use as many times as you need. For reference, I use the emLas-520BCB ($840).

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you healing and silence!