Member- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)
- Thread starter joe
- Start date
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
The LED is 10w or 5w depending on product and cheap
The laser is 0.9w Max but that's the lucky which costs 1600usd
The laser concentrate power in speckles or tiny dots - it's hard to unfocus - you can get small spots of concentrated power that can burn tissue that's why Wilden home device is only 0.08w - While his clinic uses a 20w
The LED is unfocused by nature so much safer
So you can have the power effectiveness and safety of Wilden clinical device at a negligible cost
The laser is 0.9w Max but that's the lucky which costs 1600usd
The laser concentrate power in speckles or tiny dots - it's hard to unfocus - you can get small spots of concentrated power that can burn tissue that's why Wilden home device is only 0.08w - While his clinic uses a 20w
The LED is unfocused by nature so much safer
So you can have the power effectiveness and safety of Wilden clinical device at a negligible cost
bill 112
Member
Hmmm I just purchased the Lucky Laser,any recommendations on what protocol I should follow?Open to suggestions as I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to this thing.
Also I might be going to Sweden to be treated by Michael Zazzio,if it happens I'll post here about my experiences.
Also I might be going to Sweden to be treated by Michael Zazzio,if it happens I'll post here about my experiences.
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
The lasers are also unfocused
Or do you want to burn holes ?
The led lamp has a lens that you can adjust for beam size
10w is plenty of power even if some is wasted around
Or do you want to burn holes ?
The led lamp has a lens that you can adjust for beam size
10w is plenty of power even if some is wasted around
Someone mentioned the flashlight you linked in the other thread is not the full 5W when running on AA battery. I think they mentioned it is only 1.5W on the AA battery. I'm not sure, but I ordered the flashlight anyways. Do you think it's effective running on AA battery?
Can you explain how you can be sure the light reaches the cochlea? Just by shining it at your ear canal? Wouldnt the skull and/or narrowness/turning of the ear canal occlude the light? Wouldnt you have to get the angle at your ear canal just right, and hold it exactly still for a long time, which would be difficult with just your hand?
these threads just run in circles.
The LED is not a focused light. It's a flashlight, i.e. the beam gets larger the further away you are from the target. This is the same way Wilden, Lumomed, etc aim their laser devices - wide angles, which have bigger coverage, with greater power.
Think of it like a shotgun - it has a good "spread" so its very likely to hit the target. Your aim simply doesn't have to be that good.
A focused light has NO spread. It's like a laser pointer. it produces the same size dot in inch away or 30 feet away.
A focused laser IS DANGEROUS AND SHOULD NOT BE POINTED AT YOUR BRAIN, especially in high power. Think about a shitty little kid killing ants with a magnifying glass on a sunny day, by focusing the light.
My concern with the LED is that the push button on it isn't exactly a sophisticated pulse mechanism. It may be possible to overheat the tissue. You want light therapy, not heat therapy.
The LED is not a focused light. It's a flashlight, i.e. the beam gets larger the further away you are from the target. This is the same way Wilden, Lumomed, etc aim their laser devices - wide angles, which have bigger coverage, with greater power.
Think of it like a shotgun - it has a good "spread" so its very likely to hit the target. Your aim simply doesn't have to be that good.
A focused light has NO spread. It's like a laser pointer. it produces the same size dot in inch away or 30 feet away.
A focused laser IS DANGEROUS AND SHOULD NOT BE POINTED AT YOUR BRAIN, especially in high power. Think about a shitty little kid killing ants with a magnifying glass on a sunny day, by focusing the light.
My concern with the LED is that the push button on it isn't exactly a sophisticated pulse mechanism. It may be possible to overheat the tissue. You want light therapy, not heat therapy.
Take a look around page 35 of this thread. I believe it was Fernando Gill who was giving some suggestions as he's been to Anne Harila in Norway who uses the same laser. That's what I started doing with mine.
I had to interrupt my lucky laser use as I'm fighting a bad cold so can't really lay still on the bed. Be careful with the probe tips. They're sharp and will irritate ear tissue quite easily so don't push them in far.
bill 112
Member
Thanks BB,my laser should arrive here shortly and I'm eager to get started on it!
Luckily(and I have to give him credit)Michael Zazzio has agreed to talk me through an entire treatment plan when it arrives.I've been in contact with him the last while via email,extremely helpful and genuine guy I have to say.
Wow that's great! LLLT is still very much a work in progress and every clinician seems to have their philosophy and bias. Zazzio seems more conservative whereas Wilden and Harila use more of an aggressive commando style approach.
Let's hope we get somewhere with this.
Interesting. On the english version of Zazzio's site it says:
"Emails are answered as soon as possible but there are not always a possibility for a daily check of emails, sometimes not even weekly."
But on the swedish version it says (my translation):
"Health oriented questions will only be answered at the clinic or in highly general terms on the phone, but not through e-mail."
So I guess he's willing to have discussions with H sufferers from abroad through e-mail, but not us swedes with H?
Coleoptere
Member
I have the same concern. I ordered LED's so I was thinking to buy or create an electrical circuit that switches one second on and then one second off.
Coleoptere
Member
I ordered four 5 watt LED's with power units (620nm and 810nm). I intend to intall them in a headphone with heatsink attached. What should be the distance? 3 Cm's? As for the pulsing: I have to figure out something for that.
This seems to be the typical evolution for H, when one does not recover in a long time. My hearing has recently worsened in the same manner as yours. Maybe not so much hearing loss for the moment, but the audiogram peaked down fast over a short time. I mean, most people need like one or two decades to experience a sudden fall of hearing across several frequencies. For me it has been a matter of a couple of unfortunate and loud noises, and it happened despite being really careful with noise and the activities I do.
I am still kinda lost here. As far as i understand Lucky Laser is best option out there (i know LED is more powerful and dirt cheap, however i haven`t heard of anyone here having any results with it comparing to other folks).
Is there any "how to" or guide on how to do this therapy ? I am 6 months to my T and don`t want to waist time, but at the same time i want to do it right.
Could you please let me know what to do here ? I don`t want to blow $1600 + shipping for nothing (i know all shabang with results vary - its like that with everything). Just want to know how many times a day per ear and duration of each session with wave length/power. I will do audio gramm up to ~20kHz prior starting LLLT so i could get it "tracked".
P.S.
Just want to check that if all done correctly, this does not damage cochlea/nerves and worst case just worn work ? Does anyone heard of developing tumor or some sort of side effects because of LLLT ?
Is there any "how to" or guide on how to do this therapy ? I am 6 months to my T and don`t want to waist time, but at the same time i want to do it right.
Could you please let me know what to do here ? I don`t want to blow $1600 + shipping for nothing (i know all shabang with results vary - its like that with everything). Just want to know how many times a day per ear and duration of each session with wave length/power. I will do audio gramm up to ~20kHz prior starting LLLT so i could get it "tracked".
P.S.
Just want to check that if all done correctly, this does not damage cochlea/nerves and worst case just worn work ? Does anyone heard of developing tumor or some sort of side effects because of LLLT ?
bill 112
Member
That's odd,he was and is more than willing to help me with all of my questions,at least so far.
He's even set out a treatment plan for me with lots of advice on what to do and what not to do etc so I can't fault him as of yet.
He wasn't fishing for money either,I offered to fly to his clinic and pay him but he said it wasn't necessary,that the laser I ordered was more than enough to do the job at home and that he would help me through the whole thing step by step.
bill 112
Member
I have a treatment plan sent to me by Zazzio,if you want I can forward it to you via PM.
Also,from what I've read any side effects from LLLT were minor and dissappeared shortly after treatment.I don't know of any long term side effects.
He isn't taking any patients until fall 2017 so maybe that's why he thought it wasn't necessary for you to go there. Either way, great of him to help you without charging anything. His LLLT protocol includes rTMS and antioxidants though so I'm not sure why he's saying you're home laser is "more than enough".
bill 112
Member
I probably should have quoted him more accurately,he said that for the best outcome going to the clinic would be best so that he could do a full hearing examination,blood and urine tests for free radicals and a host of other tests.
He said he was willing to treat me but that the journey(considering my situation)might be a lot on me,he said the laser treatment at home should be enough for now to see improvement as long as I follow his guidelines and if all goes well I can visit him in the fall.
I'd appreciate a PM of his treatment plan as well.
As for LLLT side effects, that's my understanding as well. No permanent harm has been reported other than some transient T spikes. At worst, you'll see no change.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
bill 112
Member
bill 112
Member
Few people had not so positive experiences with it,honestly I wouldn't be comfortable doing it.
bill 112
Member
Coleoptere
Member
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