Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Long-Lasting Everyday Home-Practiced Experiences

[Lisa2018]

@Jan64 would you recommend me the (newer) conftec models or the laser of dr Wilden?

 

[Jan64]

I am biased... I 've had an early model of Wilden's lasers, unfortunately that device broke down... After that I decided to buy the Konftec 650 and 808 nm. They are cheaper but have more power. You can buy (almost) 3 Konftec devices for 1 device by Wilden, so for me the choice was easy... But I advice to strengthen the connection between the wire and the probe (where the laser comes out) with e.g. leukosilk. Kind regards, Jan

 

[Lisa2018]

@Jan64 there are too many options on the konftec website. Red and infrared... as well different wavelengths... the required wavelength stands in relation to the frequency of the T if am correct? Makes it hard to choose.. any advise?

 

[Lisa2018]

Thank you, gentlemen.

It's been a stressful week.
Tom c NYC became Tom C New Jersey. Moving sucks. Moving when you and your wife have the flu is hell.

Overall my ears are so much better. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have tinnitus. But 90% of the time I do NOT have intrusive tinnitus. I mostly hear a seashell sound in quiet rooms. Bathroom. Bedtime.

My bad days? I hear a vacuum in the next room type of sound. Usually when I'm sick or VERY hungover. It doesn't scare me though. I know it will pass. A hangover is a great comparison for the mental toll: Sucks - but it'll go.

This isn't habituation. It's legit healing. I still use my light. I'm skeptical if it does anything to the cochlea, but a friend at work swears light therapy helps her knee - so maybe it's just helping local muscle inflammation?

In the end I don't care why I feel better. But I still do the light 2-3x a week.

Lastly - the best thing I had done was cranial chiropractic work. I went to a tmj and postural expert that treats broadway pit musicians frequently with tinnitus. It's not cranial sacral therapy. That's bullshit. This therapy was quite painful and was mostly intra-oral.

He told me he rarely "cures" but most feel "much better". If anyone is in the NE USA, PM me. I'll share contact info.

I cant find what is intra oral cranialchiropractic work... do you have a link?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I cant find what is intra oral cranialchiropractic work... do you have a link?

Essentially it is TMJ treatment. Are you in NY? If so, I can pass you the doctors name in a PM.

 

[Lisa2018]

Essentially it is TMJ treatment. Are you in NY? If so, I can pass you the doctors name in a PM.

No am located in Europe... could you provide me their website so i can study what is meant and see what our equivalent is?.
Thanks

 

[Codaz]

Hi Lisa, you are right, checked it at:
https://www.lux-spa-ibiza.com/index.php/en/order

It is in German, but it states Laser Leistung (laser power): 50 mW. See below:

Bestellung Lux Spa Homelaser*
1 x Lux Spa Home Laser by Dr. Wilden / Inner Ear Laser € 2.250,-

Datenblatt
Endpreis inklusive Steuer und Versand / Garantie: 2 Jahre

Lieferumfang:
1 Lithium Ion Batterie als Steuereinheit mit 2 USB Anschlüsse für Laser und ein mini USB für Ladevorgang
2 Laserdioden 650nm mit USB Stecker
2 Silikonstöpsel als Ohrteile
1 Netzteil 5V 1A mit USB Anschluss
1 Kabel mini USB/USB für Ladevorgang
1 USB Stick mit Gebrauchsanleitung und weiterer Information
1 Verpackung

Technische Daten des LuzSpa Home Laser Plus von Dr.Wilden
Betriebsspannung: 5 Volt Lithium Ion Batterie mit 10.000 mAh
Wellenlänge: 650-660nm
Laserleistung: 50mW ,diffus divergenter Dauerstrahl mit aprox 60º Austrittswinkel
Laserschutzklasse: 1M
Ladezeit: < 10 Stunden
Betriebsdauer mit einer Ladung: > 20Stunden


Bestellformular für den Lux Spa Homelaser by Dr. Wilden


View attachment 16941

Bitte füllen Sie das Bestellformular vollständig aus. Achten Sie auf die korrekte Eingabe des Sicherheits-Codes am Ende der Seite. Die Bestellung wird am Ende des Formulares mit dem Bestell-Button abgeschlossen. Eingaben, welche Pflichtfelder sind erkennen Sie an dem "roten Stern". Sie erhalten eine Bestätigung per E-Mail, damit Sie wissen dass Ihre Bestellung bei uns eingegangen ist. Ihre Daten werden verschlüsselt übermittelt und werden von uns ausschließlich in Verbindung mit Ihrer Bestellung gespeichert. Wir sind bemüht Ihren Auftrag zeitnah zu bearbeiten und auszuführen. Mit der Bestellung erhalten Sie eine Rechnung und die Zahlungsdaten. Sollten Sie Fragen haben, schreiben Sie uns: office@lux-spa-ibiza.com

Regards, Jan

How do you know which one to get?

 

[NormySan]

Hi,

I've been using a LLLT device called MID-Laser from a Swedish company called Irradia, I've had minor improvements over the years but nothing substantial. This could be because of several reasons that i do not know about.

I've followed treatment periods recommended to me from specialists working with LLLT where i use the laser two times a week, that's 8 minutes of 808nm at 450mW and 20 minutes of 650nm at 35mW to times each week.

During treatment periods i can definitely feel that something is happening in my ears, I'm usually warmer than normal around the ears and i ger more periods where the tinnitus is changing rapidly back and forth between various frequencies. These are supposedly signs of healing but so far I've not had any big improvements even with this.

I had a 5 month break from the LLLT recently, when i started the LLLT treatment again two weeks ago it felt like normal the first treatment but after the second one the tinnitus become much louder in my right ear and i had a very hard time sleeping that night, because of this i waited a week until it settled down until i did another treatment. So yesterday i did the third session and yet again got this intense sound in my right ear and have barely slept anything at all.

I'm not sure what to think about all this, supposedly it's a good sign when something happens but I just don't know how to handle these kind of flares in the sound level and the uncertainty if what I'm doing is working for me.

This thread is very interesting and i hope to post more in the future.

 

[Bobby B]

when you do LLLT try to find out how the sound quality is improving, don't monitor T as it ill take a long time to improve

 

[NormySan]

@Bobby B What do you mean with sound quality?

 

[Bobby B]

@Bobby B What do you mean with sound quality?

Do you have hearing damage due to loud noise ?

 

[NormySan]

Do you have hearing damage due to loud noise ?

I do have T and H due to load noise but my hearing is still good, the hearing tests only show a minor dip at the higher frequencies. I'm guessing the most damage is somewhere in the frequencies that they do not test for where I live.

I do have a mean tinnitus tough so that's the only thing I can measure success against when doing my LLLT.

 

[Leodavinci]

I just started using the Konftec device with all three wavelength ear lasers. The 660, 780 and 808 nm. I use one of each for 10 minutes a day on alternate days and i'm on day 6. I noticed a difference in my T tone after the 5th treatment, a very obvious and strong difference in tone that lasted all morning. I feel like hearing and T intrusiveness is slightly better, but I don't feel strongly about it. Thanks for this thread. Ask away if you have any questions.

 

[NormySan]

What do you guys do if the T gets much louder during treatment? Normally my T might fluctuate a bit during treatment and afterwards but never with the intensity as it's at now from my last 3 treatments as a wrote about above.

I have a suspicion that the healing is moving into the most damaged area where my T is at it's worst since thats the tone that has increased drastically.

I've previously been told by a person working with LLLT professionally to stop treatment when this happens and let the ears rest, but reading about how Hansi Cross for example did his treatment it does not seem like he stops when there was any major increases in his T.

It hard to know if you're doing it right when you don't have a professional to ask questions.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

What do you guys do if the T gets much louder during treatment? Normally my T might fluctuate a bit during treatment and afterwards but never with the intensity as it's at now from my last 3 treatments as a wrote about above.

I have a suspicion that the healing is moving into the most damaged area where my T is at it's worst since thats the tone that has increased drastically.

I've previously been told by a person working with LLLT professionally to stop treatment when this happens and let the ears rest, but reading about how Hansi Cross for example did his treatment it does not seem like he stops when there was any major increases in his T.

It hard to know if you're doing it right when you don't have a professional to ask questions.

I haven't seen any consistency in regards to how often it should be done. Where are you getting your info?

 

[NormySan]

I asked Anne Harila at Laserklinikken once when my T got really crazy from LLLT and she told me to stop. But it would be great to see what other professionals working with LLLT and T would say about this.

 

[NormySan]

After the spike in T it's finally been going down to about normal levels again after two weeks. I do feel that my H may have gotten slightly better, lets hope so!

I think I'm going to wait another week or two before i use the lasers again, hopefully the spike wont be as bad next time.

 

[SoundB0und]

Any updates from people using the Konftec devices @Lisa2018 @Leodavinci @AZeurotuner ?

I just received my device(650 and 808 nm). Hopefully I'll have some good experiences to report.

I'll be doing 10 minutes a day at first, maybe even less for the first few tries and alternating between 650 and 808.

 

[Jan64]

Great! 10 minutes is good to start with... But dosage is also a thing... To my opinion you can easily crank it up to 30-40 minutes... I see your tinnitus is still fresh... onset March 2018... More chance on success! Good luck!

 

[SoundB0und]

Yes, my plan was to work up to the target 30 minutes, because many people have had terrible spikes using LLLT for that long. I'm a bit cautious with every new thing I try. Thanks for the reply and well wishes, good luck with your recovery as well.

 

[AZeurotuner]

Any updates from people using the Konftec devices @Lisa2018 @Leodavinci @AZeurotuner ?

I just received my device(650 and 808 nm). Hopefully I'll have some good experiences to report.

I'll be doing 10 minutes a day at first, maybe even less for the first few tries and alternating between 650 and 808.

Good, it's not a miracle cure (and I never expected to be) or anything but I'd say it has helped a bit. Early on I stopped using the 650nm laser, after reading studies regarding penetration and effectiveness I decided to only use the 808nm, plus it's almost twice as powerful. I laser for 40 minutes a day, 5 days a week, taking two days in a row off at a time. I pull the ear modules out every ten minutes (not completely, just enough to let the ear get some fresh air, I keep my eyes closed to be safe when I do this) and reposition them (I have read that non pulsed lasers shouldn't be held on the same spot for too long, now these are pretty weak compared to clinical units but it can't hurt).

Yes, my plan was to work up to the target 30 minutes, because many people have had terrible spikes using LLLT for that long. I'm a bit cautious with every new thing I try. Thanks for the reply and well wishes, good luck with your recovery as well.

I did the 10 the first day, 20 the second, 30 the third, and finally 40 on the forth... Honestly the amount joules being delivered by the konftec is miniscule compared to clinical applications, I wouldn't worry about overdoing it.

 

[SoundB0und]

Thanks for the in-depth reply. Your method/system makes sense, I think I'll mostly replicate it.

This morning I bought goggles or glasses that block the lazer light(from 635 ~ 808nm), they're from Konftec too but you can probably get them cheaper if you look around. My eyes are pretty light sensitive and I'm clumsy, so better safe than sorry.

Good luck!

 

[AZeurotuner]

Thanks for the in-depth reply. Your method/system makes sense, I think I'll mostly replicate it.

This morning I bought goggles or glasses that block the lazer light(from 635 ~ 808nm), they're from Konftec too but you can probably get them cheaper if you look around. My eyes are pretty light sensitive and I'm clumsy, so better safe than sorry.

Good luck!

I should add that I also take PQQ, Coq10 (with pepperine), and Niacinamide Riboside right after my sessions, I have read that they have the potential to enhance ATP and aid in mitochondrial healing. Hope the therapy works out for you.

-Ross

 

[Leodavinci]

Any updates from people using the Konftec devices @Lisa2018 @Leodavinci @AZeurotuner ?

I just received my device(650 and 808 nm). Hopefully I'll have some good experiences to report.

I'll be doing 10 minutes a day at first, maybe even less for the first few tries and alternating between 650 and 808.

I have been laser treating intermittently, always for only 10 minutes per session in the affected ear and using each of the three wavelengths in turn for about 5 days on, 5 days off. I think my hearing may have improved slightly but I cannot confirm yet. I do an at home online hearing test and this reminded me to do another now. Good luck.

 

[Bobby B]

Overall this is how it works

If you get a spike that lasts for a day or so then a few days later it goes down with improvements in H and hearing quality

I am still doing it twice a week for 10min and still get very small improvements over months or years so be patient it takes time

 

[Lisa2018]

Any updates from people using the Konftec devices @Lisa2018 @Leodavinci @AZeurotuner ?

I just received my device(650 and 808 nm). Hopefully I'll have some good experiences to report.

I'll be doing 10 minutes a day at first, maybe even less for the first few tries and alternating between 650 and 808.

I've been using them (600, 700 and 800 range) now -not consistent- since May.
For me it helps against the H worsening after (normal) noise exposure.
I wholeheartedly hope otherwise for other patients, but I've abandoned the idea that my T will ever be cured by whatever treatment currently exists. I believe you can habituate, thats how the brain simply works. Image wearing a watch or perfume, at some point you're unaware of it since your brain adjusts. I haven't completely habituated yet but I know I will get there and so do you!
Oftentimes after using, it I get a headache on my left and right side of the area surrounding the device/ my ear. Therefore am cautious about using it too often and believe in giving it a rest.
All the best!

 

[SoundB0und]

Thanks for the replys and well wishes, @Lisa2018 and @Leodavinci .

I have been using the 808 nm only and being very cautious. I started with 5 minutes, then 7, 9, 15 and today 20 minutes, while browsing tinnitustalk . I had a tiny bit of vertigo today so I'll use it for 20 minutes again tomorrow and go from there, but eventually I want to use it for 30 minutes or maybe 40 if I feel like it. I have higher T while doing the treatment lasting until 30 minutes after and a bit of ear pain after.

The probes get quite hot, my inner ear isn't burning but the probes touch my earlobe and it burns. It's quite painful actually, not unbearable but not far from it. Today was a bit colder day and it wasn't as bad. Guess my earlobes are just more sensitive than the average persons'. I have been taking the probes out every 10 minutes.

As far as the effect on my T and H, I know its way too soon to tell, but it's pitch has shot up somewhat, which is a good sign I think. This might be placebo effect because I get quite strong placebo effects, but I feel the volume is lower during the down periods. My H seems a bit worse, not sure if it's because I've been protecting more or because of the laser. Too soon, I know, but I'm excited for this treatment.

I'm hoping to eventually achieve levels of T I had before my ototoxic reaction, which shouldn't be out of the question because that spike was only 3 months ago. Or at least the levels I had before my spike from the gokart riding by. I have definitely habituated a lot to the tinnitus and its not nearly as much on my mind, which I'm glad about.

Good luck guys!

 

[SoundB0und]

I am a bit conflicted. Reading older posts on the forum by @FERNANDO GIL saying you should use 2 wavelenghts because the ear(s) get "used to 1 wavelenght". Some people here are using different wavelenghts as well, even 3 wavelenghts. I have the 650 nm probes and I'd like to use them but I'm not sure, I'd have to use them long term and I might slow down my progress because they're less powerful. When I emailed Konftec before buying my laser asking where they got the info or the study to make that graph showing how different wavelenghts are needed for different frequencies, they just ingored my email. My tinnitus is high frequency. Any thoughts from the experts on this forum about this subject? I know some of you said there wouldn't be a difference, but maybe the people using multiple probes could explain their reasoning. I think I am going to start using the 650 nm probes and switching between 650 and 808 every other day, because it seems my progress has slowed down, I'm making gains but it's slower now. On a good note, my T is better than it has ever been after the spike so is the H(H is the one that's most improved). Been using the 808 nm only, for 30min, 5x a week for over a month so far. Just wanted to ask that question and give an update.

 

[SoundB0und]

Sorry for the triple post, nobody is posting. I thought I'd give an update because things have changed a lot. So I thought I'd give the 660 nm probe a try 2 weeks ago ago because I had nothing to lose, I didn't expect much from it.

After 30 min to 1h after my session the when the tinnitus was dying down(this always happens, it spikes during the session), I noticed the higher frequency screech being quieter than before(I also have a quieter and much lower frequency sound with a "locomotive" pattern).

After that I did 660 nm for 5 days with a break at the weekend. After that it seemed that the 2 sounds were merging and getting quieter especially the screech. Then I did 5 days alternating between 660 and 808 and it seems that it's working way better than 808nm alone.

So to answer my own question, the 660 nm probes might still be worth buying and using, they definitely were for me. My T is still fluctuating a lot but the bad periods are much better than the good periods were 6 weeks ago before I started lasering.

I'm hoping to make a full recovery from my horrendous spike(which you can read about in my introductory thread). I have periods now where the T is the same it was before it, really quiet, but those periods are still short.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@SoundB0und I glad laser is working for you. I wish there was a laser use manual for dummies such as myself. I've used a TENS unit for my back years ago and it greatly helped. I tried it for my neck and jaw with little results.