Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[Nick J.]

If you had any hearing loss, has Wilden's laser restored it?

His clinic laser made a pretty good improvement.
But his homelaser have not shown improvement in my audiograms yet.
But i can feel its changing my T up and down and by this, it has a positive effect in the long run.
Its gonna take a long time with the MLS because of the low power! Thats why i tell every one to buy the lucky laser.
My dad just bougt one and will have it in about a week i guees and when i get back home, i will borrow it and get me another powersession like i had in Norway.

 

[Rube]

I always like the idea of healing a wound. To prove that to myself I took dr.wildens advice and i started to wear cotton in my ears for last 2 weeks. I noticed improved hearing and t sometimes gets even thiner but fluctuates. So maybe hair cells can heal and wake up.

What does the cotton in ears do?

 

[bwspot]

What does the cotton in ears do?

For me it limits the amount of sound coming into the ears, which lets my ears relax a little.
Initially i hear the T more but then it magically calms down or maybe i just get used to it.
I prefer it over the plugs. The ear plugs are painful to my ears.

 

[felinefine]

Interesting conversation.

I am finally back. I have been thinking about this a lot and taken the advice of @attheedgeofscience @FERNANDO GIL @Nick J. @dboy and all of you.

@attheedgeofscience thank you, I found a wonderful doctor who spent 1.5 hours with me in his clinic. I about fell out of my chair. Crazy good reviews http://www.zocdoc.com/doctor/erik-kass-md-14071
He used a video camera to look down my throat and ears, and did every test imaginable. He then gave me a script to do a home sleep study (in order to help me with my slight sleep problems), and said that he thought I may have tensor tympani syndrome TTS. I'm not sure what I think about that, but I guess it could be a possible additional symptom. But I still don't know, and he doesn't really know, what would be causing this-I suppose

NOW for sure, I am on to experimental therapy....

Also, why do people have hyper mobile eardrums? Many people have hyper mobile eardrums in their affected ear including @Rube and @luka (and I think my bad ear may also be one of these).

@attheedgeofscience you gave a lot of input on Dr. Wilden's therapy, and have said that you do not know exactly what he does, but have supplied a lot of information, and it is very helpful. I was going to use this information to see this doctor in the US http://www.healinglightseminars.com but in my opinion, when I called him and filled out his patient information sheet, I didn't get a great feel from him. I don't believe his therapy is all that great, and I think he may just give all people the same treatment. I could be wrong, but I definitely know that although he is familiar with Dr. Wilden's work, he is not as well-versed in the ear, and was not able to articulate well with me on the phone. I was not impressed.

I am afraid I do not have options here in the US, so I will be trying to do home therapy on my own for now. I have written both Dr. Wilden and Anne, and they were very kind. I am big promoters of theirs because I believe they have the best interest for their patients. This really says a lot about a person. I wish I could pay either of them for consulting at home (with my own laser), but neither of them took the bait when I requested I pay them for each consultation as a healing coach. I understand this, and realize they are busy helping many others already at their individual clinics. I just so wish they would...

Anyway, this means if I decide to do a home laser (I am making the decision on my birthday this month), I will be getting the lucky laser because it is higher power, and everyone seems to say that this is the better choice. However, I know it does not have dual laser-infared and red laser (@attheedgeofscience you were talking about this). I'm not sure how this affects the overall therapy.

If I do not see any results (in say a few months), I will go to see either Dr. Wilden or Anne.

I'm a little concerned using the lucky laser on my own, but I am thinking at this point this is my best bet....how I wish I was smarter to figure out the optimal treatment plan with a home laser!!!

 

[attheedgeofscience]

However, I know it does not have dual laser-infared and red laser (@attheedgeofscience you were talking about this). I'm not sure how this affects the overall therapy.

The lucky laser does have dual laser output (i.e. two different wavelength settings: red and infrared). It just does not have simultaneous dual wavelength output. But that only means the treatment duration needs to be extended (or that you alternate between red and infrared treatment from day-to-day).

Products

Tinnitus Laser System / COMBILASER
Model: LK-COMBI
The technical specifications
1, Wavelength: 650nm (visible)
2, Laser type: Semiconductor laser
3, Laser diode power: 120mW
4, Output power: 2*120mW, CW
5, Wavelength: 808nm (infrared)
6, Laser type: Semiconductor laser
7, Laser diode power: 900mW
8, Output power: 2*900mW
9, Beam divergence: 1.0-1.5mRAD
10,Total output power: 1800mW 808nm, 240mW 650nm

 

[RaZaH]

How much for a laser like that ?

Arent there different lasers for different freq in the ear ?

 

[Yan]

I've read on this forum about LLLT treatment and seems like it helped somewhat more or less some folks here. All threads are referring to Dr. Wilden in Germany, or other specialists in Norway and Ibiza.
From tips and hints all over the forum I found out that there is a US based doctor, practicing LLLT to reduce tinnitus. His name is Dr. David Rindge. He's based is Melbourne, Florida. The website:

http://cooperativemedicine.com/laser-therapy/ear-disorders/

I consider flying to Florida to receive LLLT and wanted to ask if anyone on this forum has tried his services and could share their experience.

 

[bwspot]

I've read on this forum about LLLT treatment and seems like it helped somewhat more or less some folks here. All threads are referring to Dr. Wilden in Germany, or other specialists in Norway and Ibiza.
From tips and hints all over the forum I found out that there is a US based doctor, practicing LLLT to reduce tinnitus. His name is Dr. David Rindge. He's based is Melbourne, Florida. The website:

http://cooperativemedicine.com/laser-therapy/ear-disorders/

I consider flying to Florida to receive LLLT and wanted to ask if anyone on this forum has tried his services and could share their experience.

You can write to him and he will reply to all your questions. He is very nice. Part of reply to my questions:"
Our methods are our own but likely to be similar to Wilden's. Most of your questions have already been answered at Laser Therapy in Ear Disorders or in links there.
"

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi @felinefine
Nice you decided to srtart the LLLT treatement let´s hope will work for you. I think it´s wise start with the home laser, cause sonner or later you need to buy it, In my opinion power seession at Anne are necessary in the future.
@attheedgeofscience advice is completely right.
But the display was not user friendly, so Lulu ( Lucky Laser owner) changed. Please see a picture atcahed.
All the best. As sson you have it, me or Nick will help with anything you need, I think is father is getting one in the next few days so he will be aware of how it works as well. but no big cahlenge.
I said before and is the more important safety feature,
DO NOT USE 808 nm ABOVE 400 /450 mW in your ears.
When you receive it we can have a chat , if need want, we can SKYPE it´s up to you.

Dual lenght´s I think need to be big lasers, Anne have one at 630 together with a 904 and looks like the one as Dr Wilden. And expensive.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

How much for a laser like that ?

1500 USd, FOB China

Arent there different lasers for different freq in the ear ?

Not that i´m aware, but you should use different wavelenghts during your treatment, after wille they say the cells get used to the same wavelength, so it´s wise to have different wavelenghts for the LLLT treatments.
This week I stopped, but when using it . I change the probe everyday. use the 650 in one day and 808 next day.
I did not changed the power, but maybe changing the power for the probes will help as well for the ear cels do not get used to same treatment, but this is just a guessing.

Sheers

 

[felinefine]

Thank you so much @attheedgeofscience and @FERNANDO GIL

Fernando, are you continuing to have success with your laser? How has it been for you lately (as far as fullness and tinnitus go)? Yes I would really like to Skype once I get it in the mail. Thanks for your help!

 

[bwspot]

Hi @felinefine
Nice you decided to srtart the LLLT treatement let´s hope will work for you. I think it´s wise start with the home laser, cause sonner or later you need to buy it, In my opinion power seession at Anne are necessary in the future.
@attheedgeofscience advice is completely right.
But the display was not user friendly, so Lulu ( Lucky Laser owner) changed. Please see a picture atcahed.
All the best. As sson you have it, me or Nick will help with anything you need, I think is father is getting one in the next few days so he will be aware of how it works as well. but no big cahlenge.
I said before and is the more important safety feature,
DO NOT USE 808 nm ABOVE 400 /450 mW in your ears.
When you receive it we can have a chat , if need want, we can SKYPE it´s up to you.

View attachment 4944

Dual lenght´s I think need to be big lasers, Anne have one at 630 together with a 904 and looks like the one as Dr Wilden. And expensive.

i must say that the scariest part is what if one screws something and sets the power incorrectly?
Can you do any harm with this laser?
Dr.Wildens laser seemed to be designed to be set on the ears and does not have power or freq that could do any damage. Would not it be safer to get a device that does not have an option to set too much power?

 

[bwspot]

I know the bigest fear is the T to increase. But people have to realize, that you are healing a wound, They are cells like any other part of our body.

So is that increase for more then few days?
According to what I have read the increase usually is short and goes away after 24H.
Yes, you right I am little scared of the increase as I learned to live with T and i mostly don't hear it during the day, but only at night. I am supposed to see Anne next month. Ever Dr.Wilden agreed that this is a good start. For me the most important part is hope to restore some hearing.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Can you do any harm with this laser?

If power goes up, it starts to get warmer, so yo notice right away, and just take out of your ears. For a few seconds it does no arm I presume.

Would not it be safer to get a device that does not have an option to set too much power?

I made the same question, but you can use 808nm above 400/450 Mw in other parts of the body. As long you do not keep to much time in same place. Anne told me that is good for inflamation, but you need to keep it close to the skin, but always moving around, small circles. Do not keep it in same place for more than a few seconds.


Changing the out put power is not so easy and laser comes with a entering code. So only you can manage it.

Sheers

 

[kavaliero]

Hallo to everybody..my big fear also is the tinnitus to increase.for how long ..and how many db louder will be with lllt.After 5 months i cant still sleep good 4-5 hours only but i am better than before now.i finnaly cut benzos and i try to continoue my life..if T increase many db i dont know if i can stay calm...

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Fernando, are you continuing to have success with your laser?

Think so. Actualy I did use very little since I got it. I came from China mid December. Did not use right after, And then I did not use it the week before I went to Norway. And now I´m not using it yet, I´m giving at least one week of rest after Norway tretament, so only by monday /tuesday next week maybe I will start to use it and make a new teratment plan.. So total maybe used it for 10 days only.

Concerning my T.
2 days ago, was really strange, Up and downs all day, At lunch time I did not notice it at all at the restaurant having lunch and even after , then during the afteternoon, it went up, and at night time went down and had a few minuts without T at all. Not for long but it was not there. Yesterday was low all day, I need it to make a car trip to north of Portugal and used ear plugs all day, and even using ears plugs was low. If I remove them wille driving I could not notice the T at all. Windows of the car closed. At night time once again no T for few time, and then low again. Today.......T high all day...... ( yesterday with plugs was lower than today without them, so you see how it can be so low and high) let´s see how it goes tomorow, But during first week /10 days after the tretament is what is going to happen, or even more time. Good days and bad days, then it starts to calm down and then is when you really can see if it went down. My best days ever were before going to Norway, and that was 2 months after the 1st tretament in Norway, so I presume the results from each tretament at Anne takes around 2 months , and was 4 months after my SC witch take around 4 months to make an efect. My future plans?
Going back to Norway in April / May, with are 9 months after starting the LLLT, let´s see if the 9 month cicle for the nerves regeneration really aply

If T is lowering now? It is. But is getting dificult, cause the sound is moving to high frequencies, and those are hard to define. Another point is that is dificult to "camuflate" with any other sound around you. Is there and nothing you can do, you can only hope its´s low. But then you start thinking that is a good sign, cause means your T is moving to the really high frequencies, and those are the ones I need to get fixed. But the sound now is thinner than was a month ago, that is for sure.

For the last few months when T is high at night I take 0,125 mg or 0,25 Mg of Alprazolan before night time, and that way I sleep all night for sure. if T is low then no pills at all. But I decided to make a test. If tomorow I see the T is up I will take 5 mg of Alprazolan and see if T drops. The lady that went with me to Norway does that, she says the T reduces, I will make a test.

Sheers all.

 

[Rube]

@FERNANDO GIL or @Nick J. did either of you guys have H and if yes what effect did the laser have with the H?

 

[bwspot]

Think so. Actualy I did use very little since I got it. I came from China mid December. Did not use right after, And then I did not use it the week before I went to Norway. And now I´m not using it yet, I´m giving at least one week of rest after Norway tretament, so only by monday /tuesday next week maybe I will start to use it and make a new teratment plan.. So total maybe used it for 10 days only.

Concerning my T.
2 days ago, was really strange, Up and downs all day, At lunch time I did not notice it at all at the restaurant having lunch and even after , then during the afteternoon, it went up, and at night time went down and had a few minuts without T at all. Not for long but it was not there. Yesterday was low all day, I need it to make a car trip to north of Portugal and used ear plugs all day, and even using ears plugs was low. If I remove them wille driving I could not notice the T at all. Windows of the car closed. At night time once again no T for few time, and then low again. Today.......T high all day...... ( yesterday with plugs was lower than today without them, so you see how it can be so low and high) let´s see how it goes tomorow, But during first week /10 days after the tretament is what is going to happen, or even more time. Good days and bad days, then it starts to calm down and then is when you really can see if it went down. My best days ever were before going to Norway, and that was 2 months after the 1st tretament in Norway, so I presume the results from each tretament at Anne takes around 2 months , and was 4 months after my SC witch take around 4 months to make an efect. My future plans?
Going back to Norway in April / May, with are 9 months after starting the LLLT, let´s see if the 9 month cicle for the nerves regeneration really aply

If T is lowering now? It is. But is getting dificult, cause the sound is moving to high frequencies, and those are hard to define. Another point is that is dificult to "camuflate" with any other sound around you. Is there and nothing you can do, you can only hope its´s low. But then you start thinking that is a good sign, cause means your T is moving to the really high frequencies, and those are the ones I need to get fixed. But the sound now is thinner than was a month ago, that is for sure.

For the last few months when T is high at night I take 0,125 mg or 0,25 Mg of Alprazolan before night time, and that way I sleep all night for sure. if T is low then no pills at all. But I decided to make a test. If tomorow I see the T is up I will take 5 mg of Alprazolan and see if T drops. The lady that went with me to Norway does that, she says the T reduces, I will make a test.

Sheers all.

Interesting facts. Little scary but I guest that's the way. How loud was your T when it started compared how is it now?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

@FERNANDO GIL or @Nick J. did either of you guys have H and if yes what effect did the laser have with the H?

That is the first symptom to desapear, If I remenber maybe after 2nd month of LLLT. H is easy to cure with LLLT, that is my felling.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

How loud was your T when it started compared how is it now?

My first tretament was TRT, never worked of corse, but my mask level was 32 db. By June last year was 18 db. My felling is that now i´m cured 80%. But is a guess, if i´m in a good day and my TRT Ent is around, I will go back there to readjust the mask level , And then is when I can give correct answer. But you have to remember I already made 3 power laser tretments and a Stem Cell tretment, As I said If I get cured, it was a hell of a ride.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

.if T increase many db i dont know if i can stay calm...

Hi kavaliero
T will go up but for a few days only. Is part of the ealing process. Like any other wound in our body.
Sheers

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

So is that increase for more then few days?

Some times yes. The efect of the tretament in Norway will have an impact for 2 months more or less,so during 2 months your ears will ealling. After that time is when you can see if it worked or not. But the T flutuations will happen mostly in the first week, maybe second.

For me the most important part is hope to restore some hearing.

Exactly, the problem is that most people do not realise that T and earing loss and all connected, you only drop your T if you gain earing. And LLLT can not be the cure for T, but is a proved concept for cell regeneration. Now all depende how your ear will recai.

Hope all goes well, I presume you from Chicago ? correct?

 

[bwspot]

My first tretament was TRT, never worked of corse, but my mask level was 32 db. By June last year was 18 db. My felling is that now i´m cured 80%. But is a guess, if i´m in a good day and my TRT Ent is around, I will go back there to readjust the mask level , And then is when I can give correct answer. But you have to remember I already made 3 power laser tretments and a Stem Cell tretment, As I said If I get cured, it was a hell of a ride.

Unfortunately i cannot afford stem cell treatment and trt and lllt except the home version later after i see Anne. I hope seeing her will have benefits.

 

[bwspot]

Some times yes. The efect of the tretament in Norway will have an impact for 2 months more or less,so during 2 months your ears will ealling. After that time is when you can see if it worked or not. But the T flutuations will happen mostly in the first week, maybe second.


Exactly, the problem is that most people do not realise that T and earing loss and all connected, you only drop your T if you gain earing. And LLLT can not be the cure for T, but is a proved concept for cell regeneration. Now all depende how your ear will recai.

Hope all goes well, I presume you from Chicago ? correct?

yes

 

[Nick J.]

@FERNANDO GIL or @Nick J. did either of you guys have H and if yes what effect did the laser have with the H?

"H" is being over sensitive to sounds right??
I had this AFTER i started doing LLLT.
Some sounds would hurt my ears really bad, that it was kind of painfull.
But it went away after one month i think and then started in a new frequencie range, since my hearing now had gotten better.
So its not something to fear. LLLT will fix that problem.

 

[Rube]

"H" is being over sensitive to sounds right??
I had this AFTER i started doing LLLT.
Some sounds would hurt my ears really bad, that it was kind of painfull.
But it went away after one month i think and then started in a new frequencie range, since my hearing now had gotten better.
So its not something to fear. LLLT will fix that problem.

Thanks for replying with your results, appreciate it!

 

[Nick J.]

I have some good news, followed by some really bad news.

After my treatment in Norway, my T just got lower and lower and when walking outside, i almost dident noticed it.
I finished treatment in Norway 21th. of Dec and the 10th. of Jan. this month, i was on a cruiseship in Florida and my T just got crazy low.
It was the best time iv had since getting the high T.
I remember one of the last days we were docking in St.Martin in Caribbean and i was walking down a street with heavy traffic and dident wear earplugs just to test my ears.
The T was gone and my T dident react to the high volume noise anymore, like it used to do in the beginning of my treatment. I was amazed. I couldent believe how fast i had been cured.
During that cruise (1 week) i think i was about 80-90% cured. Thats how i felt atleast.
Then the last night on the ship, there was a party and i desided to join to say goodbye to all i got to know. But was gonna wear earplugs cuz of the high music.
I only got to drink half a beer, when i noticed my ears where screaming.
It sounded like my earcells were being murdered by a monster inside my ears and were screaming for help before dieing.
I quickly left the party and went down my cabin and used my MLS for 50min.
But the damaged had already been done.
Since that night, i have had high T like in the beginning of my treatment and with no good or bad days anymore.
A little lower in the beginning of the day, but then on, its just bad.
So i feel like im now been put back 2-3month.

Im hoping for a quick turnaround, like Hansi cross had after he got sick and had to start all over, but got back up much faster to the previous cured stage he was in before.
Time will tell...but if i could just turn back time...jeeez!!

Wearing earplug is without a doubt a huge deal and avoid loud noise at all costs!!

 

[bwspot]

I have some good news, followed by some really bad news.

After my treatment in Norway, my T just got lower and lower and when walking outside, i almost dident noticed it.
I finished treatment in Norway 21th. of Dec and the 10th. of Jan. this month, i was on a cruiseship in Florida and my T just got crazy low.
It was the best time iv had since getting the high T.
I remember one of the last days we were docking in St.Martin in Caribbean and i was walking down a street with heavy traffic and dident wear earplugs just to test my ears.
The T was gone and my T dident react to the high volume noise anymore, like it used to do in the beginning of my treatment. I was amazed. I couldent believe how fast i had been cured.
During that cruise (1 week) i think i was about 80-90% cured. Thats how i felt atleast.
Then the last night on the ship, there was a party and i desided to join to say goodbye to all i got to know. But was gonna wear earplugs cuz of the high music.
I only got to drink half a bear, when i noticed my ears where screaming.
It sounded like my earcells were being murdered by a monster inside my ears and were screaming for help before dieing.
I quickly left the party and went down my cabin and used my MLS for 50min.
But the damaged had already been done.
Since that night, i have had high T like in the beginning of my treatment and with no good or bad days anymore.
A little lower in the beginning of the day, but then on, its just bad.
So i feel like im now been put back 2-3month.

Im hoping for a quick turnaround, like Hansi cross had after he got sick and had to start all over, but got back up much faster to the previous cured stage he was in before.
Time will tell...but if i could just turn back time...jeeez!!

Wearing earplug is without a doubt a huge deal...

do you think lllt was the cause or the loud music?

 

[Nick J.]

do you think lllt was the cause or the loud music?

I have no idea what u are asking me!

 

[Rube]

I have some good news, followed by some really bad news.

After my treatment in Norway, my T just got lower and lower and when walking outside, i almost dident noticed it.
I finished treatment in Norway 21th. of Dec and the 10th. of Jan. this month, i was on a cruiseship in Florida and my T just got crazy low.
It was the best time iv had since getting the high T.
I remember one of the last days we were docking in St.Martin in Caribbean and i was walking down a street with heavy traffic and dident wear earplugs just to test my ears.
The T was gone and my T dident react to the high volume noise anymore, like it used to do in the beginning of my treatment. I was amazed. I couldent believe how fast i had been cured.
During that cruise (1 week) i think i was about 80-90% cured. Thats how i felt atleast.
Then the last night on the ship, there was a party and i desided to join to say goodbye to all i got to know. But was gonna wear earplugs cuz of the high music.
I only got to drink half a beer, when i noticed my ears where screaming.
It sounded like my earcells were being murdered by a monster inside my ears and were screaming for help before dieing.
I quickly left the party and went down my cabin and used my MLS for 50min.
But the damaged had already been done.
Since that night, i have had high T like in the beginning of my treatment and with no good or bad days anymore.
A little lower in the beginning of the day, but then on, its just bad.
So i feel like im now been put back 2-3month.

Im hoping for a quick turnaround, like Hansi cross had after he got sick and had to start all over, but got back up much faster to the previous cured stage he was in before.
Time will tell...but if i could just turn back time...jeeez!!

Wearing earplug is without a doubt a huge deal and avoid loud noise at all costs!!

So you wore ear plugs and still had that bad spike? Thats crazy, hope you get well soon.