Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[Nick J.]

@Nick J. @FERNANDO GIL

Nick, Sorry to hear about your set back. I had the same experience. My kids had a party on Saturday and the party staff played loud music. I only stayed in the room for 10-15 minutes talking to another parent and realized it is not good and ran out to get a ear plug. Two days later, I felt my T got louder again. I increased my Luci use for one hour according to Amon's advice.

After reading the thread, I start to think of ordering Lucky Laser. Luckily, money is not an issue for me, so I decide to go all out. What do you recommend to buy and how do I contact lulu? - Kindly advise again. Thank you!

Thanks!
Yea it sucks. But when u are careless like i was i guees, then thats what happens.
I'll get back to previous state for sure. Its just gonna take some time.
Im doing 2 hours a day now with my Wilden laser.
Actually im thinking of doing even more, similar to the powerdose i got in Norway.
Cuz the ears can take a huge dose and u can actually feel when u cant take any more.
Its hard to explain. But u wont be in doubt when u reach the limit for the day.

Its a nobrainer to buy the lucky laser if money is not an issue.
Buy with two probes of each wavelength.

 

[Nick J.]

@Nick J.

I try to understand what you wrote here about lucky laser. If I buy two probes for each, does it mean I have 650nm or 808nm at the same time? If I remember correctly, Fernado uses 650nm in the ear and 808nm behind the ear for each ear about 30 minutes (total one hour) and then switch up for two ears next day and continue to do so for 5 days a week, two days off. So it is 650nm/120 nw and 808nm/400 nw, am I right?

Thank you very much again for your very kind help!

If u buy 4 probes, it means u can treat both ears at the same time with 650nm and then change the probes and do the same with 808nm.
Me and fernando can only treat one ear at a time.
Cuz it was my understanding that Fernando just said the the laser cant run with both wavelength at the same time.
So even if we have a probe of each wavelength, we can only use one at a time.
So be happy u are not a poor bastard like the rest of us

Ask Fernando about the details.
Im not 100% sure how he does it.

 

[Nick J.]

@FERNANDO GIL

Thanks for the information. I do have some other questions and like to get your opinion. It seems like you travel quite a bit for your job. How do you protect your ears during flight? Do you ever watch movies or listen to music when you took the flight? I notice my T always gets louder after a flight. Is it the same as you? Should we avoid all music or movies during flight? OR should we avoid flights as much as possible? I have a 16 hours flight to Asia coming in April and am still thinking if I should make the trip.

Do we need to wear ear plugs when we go to the beach? the wave can be loud. I am not sure about this since it is natural sound.

When I get the lucky laser, can you show me how to use it n "Line" app? Easier to use than Skype and it is totally free. You can do face voice call as well on the phone. Thank you a million!

Dont be affraid of flying if u just use earplugs.
I travel all the time myself cuz of job and i just traveled to Florida like 3 weeks after doing treatment in Norway and i had my best time ever the first week over here after 10 hours flight and i saw movies on the plane with earphone plugs on low volume.
The block out sound from the plane and then u can have the volume on low..that did the trick for me.

I also go to the beach ALOT and never wear earplugs when im there. The sound is not high anough to do any harm.
Its only sounds above 85db u wonna stay away from at all cost and sounds below that, u want to protect your ears as much as possible, so the spend tbe minimum ATP.
But u also need to live and enjoy life while healing.
So its like a balance u know.
When i walk along a road with cars and have plugs in the ears, i still use my hands to cover my ears when a truck comes by or if there is other high noise along the way.
So im constant aware of any dangers to my ears during the day.
But when i have the chance to relax outside without protection, i take it and i made a really fast recovery by doing things in that way.
I just got careless when i started feeling "cured".

It was kind of crazy.
Cuz two days before i messed up, i think i wrote in here that i felt like 60-70% cured.
But each day after just got so much better that i couldent believe it.
So i really felt like i was close to 90% cured on the day i went to that party for 15min.
The hole day prior to the party was amazing.
I dont quit understand how i could have such a huge improvement over so relative few days.

I have a theory, but im not sure if its the reason and i will never be able to prove it.
But i have a hormone imbalance, due to problems with my thyroid and my mom has the same and resently got some creme with a hormone called Progesterone and i now use the aswell and put it on my ears.
It was suggested by a specialist in hormones we consulted.
The specialist actually told me to try do it on my ears and see if it helped on my T.
U need to put the creme on thin skin and the ears are therefore perfect.
So maybe this hormone are boosting the healing. I only started useing it like a week before going to Florida and the week after was when i suddenly started to have this huge boost in my recovery from the T.
So now i keep putting the creme on my ears and hope it will do the trick once more combined with the laser

But hormones is not something to play with.
So dont try it (anybody who reads this) without a doctors consultens ofcourse!!!

 

[Dr. Nagler]

But i have a hormone imbalance, due to problems with my thyroid and my mom has the same and resently got some creme with a hormone called Progesterone and i now use the aswell and put it on my ears.It was suggested by a specialist in hormones we consulted.
The specialist actually told me to try do it on my ears and see if it helped on my T.

Nick, I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. You and your mother both have thyroid problems, and a specialist has recommended progesterone cream to address the thyroid issue. And you are now applying the progesterone cream to your ears on the specialist's recommendation. Is that right? And this specialist is a medical doctor, correct?

stephen nagler

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

@Nick J.

I try to understand what you wrote here about lucky laser. If I buy two probes for each, does it mean I have 650nm or 808nm at the same time? If I remember correctly, Fernado uses 650nm in the ear and 808nm behind the ear for each ear about 30 minutes (total one hour) and then switch up for two ears next day and continue to do so for 5 days a week, two days off. So it is 650nm/120 nw and 808nm/400 nw, am I right?

Thank you very much again for your very kind help!

Hi Carrie..
If you buy two probe of each, you can male the same protocol at the same time in each ear. Since I have only one of each. What i´m doing, is 30 /40 minutes with one probe in each ear, then 15 minutes extra with the two at the same time in my bad ear.
But as I said, with time you will start to understand how to do it.
I did stop for a week after this last treatment in Norway. Yesterday I restart making the laser in my house. But I notice today the T i high, so maybe I will give a few more days rest to my ears. Till the effect of last treatment calms down. On the other end I think we should not give full power all the time, so times to times, you do a power sessions during a week time , and then rest again, just like you would be going to Anne or dr Wilden. But this is something you will learn with time. The response to the LLLT is different from person to person so on the end is your felling that will tell you what is best for you.

Shame Lucky laser can not be sold in the US.

Any chance you guys have someone in Canada and then just pick it up there?
Just wondering.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

How do you protect your ears during flight? Do you ever watch movies or listen to music when you took the flight? I notice my T always gets louder after a flight.

Hi
I protect them as usual, no change. But for what I notice T goes up during the flight. On my last treatment in Norway, Anne took me to see the surroundings around Sandvika. We went up on a mountain, not big, but during the way up Anne told me that my T would go up. And it really went up, to me and the lady that was with me in Norway. And when we got back to sea level the T reduced again. So it should go up at least during the flight, myne does. After the flight get back to normal.

Sheers

 

[bwspot]

Hi Carrie..
If you buy two probe of each, you can male the same protocol at the same time in each ear. Since I have only one of each. What i´m doing, is 30 /40 minutes with one probe in each ear, then 15 minutes extra with the two at the same time in my bad ear.
But as I said, with time you will start to understand how to do it.
I did stop for a week after this last treatment in Norway. Yesterday I restart making the laser in my house. But I notice today the T i high, so maybe I will give a few more days rest to my ears. Till the effect of last treatment calms down. On the other end I think we should not give full power all the time, so times to times, you do a power sessions during a week time , and then rest again, just like you would be going to Anne or dr Wilden. But this is something you will learn with time. The response to the LLLT is different from person to person so on the end is your felling that will tell you what is best for you.

Shame Lucky laser can not be sold in the US.

Any chance you guys have someone in Canada and then just pick it up there?
Just wondering.

The Wildens laser seems to have advantage. You can use it and continue doing things. With Lucy you must lay down for the time of the treatment. Is wildens laser also prohibited in USA?

 

[Nick J.]

@FERNANDO GIL

So u can use both wavelength at the same time with the lucky laser???
I just thought i saw u write a few days ago this was only possible with proff lasers like Wildens and Annes!

 

[CarrieLee]

@FERNANDO GIL

I try to understand the difference with two probes and 4 probes. With 4 probes, does it mean you can use 650nm for two ears for 30 minutes at the same time and then switch to 808nm for two ears again for another 30 minutes? Or 650nm in the ear and 808nm behind the ear for 30 minutes for both ears at the same time?

With two probes, you do 650nm in one ear and 808nm in another ear and then switch up to different ear, so total one house or you only do 30-40 minutes and then switch next day.

The one with 4 probes - 650nm/120nw, 808nm/900mw. As you advised before, we should not use it for the ear over 400nw. Can we do it 5 days a week and two days or as you say, we need to listen to our body and decide how we want to use it? How does Anne in Norway suggest about the use?

@Nick J. It seems that Dr. Wilden's Lux Spa device has helped you a lot. Will higher nw and different wavelength help with faster recovery?

MY T now is going up and down. For some time about one and half months after the intensive treatment at Amon's, I can barely hear it and suddenly it increased again. Amon says it is natural process of healing. I had hearing loss in the high frequency area. As for an impatient person like me, having patience is the hardest part. I really hope one day I woke up and it is gone. But I know it takes time. Just hope I have fast recovery like you and Fernando.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

So u can use both wavelength at the same time with the lucky laser???

I use one inside my ear and the other behind the ear, I think you got it as well in Anne clinic,

Sorry if I misunderstand you.

Fernando

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I try to understand the difference with two probes and 4 probes. With 4 probes, does it mean you can use 650nm for two ears for 30 minutes at the same time and then switch to 808nm for two ears again for another 30 minutes? Or 650nm in the ear and 808nm behind the ear for 30 minutes for both ears at the same time?

]I try to understand the difference with two probes and 4 probes. With 4 probes, does it mean you can use 650nm for two ears for 30 minutes at the same time and then switch to 808nm for two ears again for another 30 minutes?
Correct.
Or 650nm in the ear and 808nm behind the ear for 30 minutes for both ears at the same time?
Correct as well.

If you have T in just one ear I think no need to buy with 4 probes. It will cost 2500 Usd I think.

The picture i´m atatchin maybe can explain.
I´m using one probe inside my ear and the other one behing the ear.

The good abou this laser, is that you have more options for the treatment. You can use low power for a few time, than stop for a wille, and then you just put it at full power for 5 days, maybe one hour each probe even.
And then again rest your ears, mostly is that.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

MY T now is going up and down. For some time about one and half months after the intensive treatment at Amon's, I can barely hear it and suddenly it increased again. Amon says it is natural process of healing.

Good to know. Yes it´s usual during the two months after the treatment, then it start to stabelize.

 

[Nick J.]

The lucky laser does have dual laser output (i.e. two different wavelength settings: red and infrared). It just does not have simultaneous dual wavelength output. But that only means the treatment duration needs to be extended (or that you alternate between red and infrared treatment from day-to-day).

@FERNANDO GIL
Im sorry...it was ATEOS who wrote that u cant use 650 and 808nm at the same time!
But u say this is not true??

Yes Anne used them on me.
But maybe she used two machines, so she could give me 650 and 808 at the same time??
I dident look to confirm this.
But thats what me and carrielee are asking u...is it possible to do both wavelength atthe same time with the new Lucky laser??

 

[Nick J.]

@FERNANDO GIL

Ok with the picture i guees u answer my question.
I just wonder why ATEOS then says the oppesit?

 

[Nick J.]

It seems that Dr. Wilden's Lux Spa device has helped you a lot. Will higher nw and different wavelength help with faster recovery?

Yes it have helped me for sure!
But the biggest progress iv had, was with the high dose treatment and multiple wavelength in clinics...hands down!

So yes, higher power and many wavelength is the optimal i my mind.
Different wavelength treats different things like nerves better the other wavelength and penetrate the tissue differently.
Its like taking multi vitamin is always better then just taking one and high dose vitamin is also better then low in general.

 

[bwspot]

Yes it have helped me for sure!
But the biggest progress iv had, was with the high dose treatment and multiple wavelength in clinics...hands down!

So yes, higher power and many wavelength is the optimal i my mind.
Different wavelength treats different things like nerves better the other wavelength and penetrate the tissue differently.
Its like taking multi vitamin is always better then just taking one and high dose vitamin is also better then low in general.

i wonder why Wilden went with one frequency only? If he is the king of the lllt and ear treatment would not he make a device that does more frequencies?

 

[Rube]

i wonder why Wilden went with one frequency only? If he is the king of the lllt and ear treatment would not he make a device that does more frequencies?

It probably would be prohibitively expensive to try to sell considering how expensive his single frequency lasers are.

 

[CarrieLee]

@FERNANDO GIL

You said in the previous post:
"Yes, since is important to not use same wavelength everyday during some time. this what i´m doing.
Monday, Wednesday,Friday, I use use 8o8 in my bad year and 650 on my good year, at the same time.
Tuesday and Thursday, I do the opposite. This i´m doing 30 minutes.
Weekend, rest time.
After each treatment , 10 /15 minuts, I use the two at the same time in my bad ear, one inside the ear and other behind the ear.
One day 808 inside the ear and 650 behind the ear. The next day I change again.

This way you keep changing the wavelengths everyday so ears do not get used to same wavelength.
Sheers."

Do you use 650nm/120nw and 808nm/400nw for 30 minutes each day now? Do you change the nw each day or stick to 120w and 400 nw? Can I use 650/808nm, one in the ear and one behind for 30 minutes each day and then switch to another ear? Dr. Wilden says it is important to treat both ears even the other ear does not have T. If I treat it with one probe in the ear and one behind the ear, two probes will be one hour use total for two ears. 4 probes will be 30 minutes total. I only have T in one ear. 2 probes now cost $1,600, 4 probes cost $2,000. Seriously, compared to the medical expense in the US. I don't consider this as expensive.

Since I have not seen Anne, I guess I am not able to email her for advice. Your advice will be important for me. Down the road, I will plan the trip to Anne for different wavelength treatments since you and Nick have benefited so much from it. I now hit 3 months of LLLT treatment.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

just wonder why ATEOS then says the oppesit?

Need to check, But I think he was refering from the same diod.
Dr Wilden machine have two wavelenghts at the same time.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Do you use 650nm/120nw and 808nm/400nw for 30 minutes each day now?

Yes

Do you change the nw each day or stick to 120w and 400 nw?

At the moment i´m sticking with the same everyday.

Can I use 650/808nm, one in the ear and one behind for 30 minutes each day and then switch to another ear?

Yes, in Anne we do that during one hour, But be ready cause T will go up almost for sure. I was saving that when i decide to make a more power full tretament. But for what I know no problem. I did that in Anne plus 3/4 hours of others lasers.

Dr. Wilden says it is important to treat both ears even the other ear does not have T

Yes, Anne says the same. That can avoid balance problems, and for sure you are helping the other ear as well, and avoid any future problems.

only have T in one ear. 2 probes now cost $1,600, 4 probes cost $2,000. Seriously, compared to the medical expense in the US. I don't consider this as expensive.

If money no issue, then I think you shoud go for,

 

[Nick J.]

i wonder why Wilden went with one frequency only? If he is the king of the lllt and ear treatment would not he make a device that does more frequencies?

One can also wonder why Ferrari are not making cars that runs 40miles per gallon and at really low price, now that the are kings of cars.

U can always speculate.
But with his laser, one can come a long way. Just read about Hansi cross. But it takes a long time.
If u wonna boost it, then u need the high power multi wavelength laser which private persons in many cases cant buy. Thats where he makes most of his earnings i think.
His laser is only a kind of help for people with little money. The will have to do the time of low power treatment, but will get there at one point.
Just like people buying a cheap car will get from A to B "much slower" then a guy in a Ferrari.
Doing clinic, cost alot more then his laser. Most people also have to add alot of travelexpenses.
With the laser, u save all those money.

I really dont see any conspiracy here?

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Im sorry...it was ATEOS who wrote that u cant use 650 and 808nm at the same time!

Hmmmm... Did I write that? Please be kind to share the reference - thanks.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

i wonder why Wilden went with one frequency only? If he is the king of the lllt and ear treatment would not he make a device that does more frequencies?

Hi
When I went to Ibiza. Dr Wilden pick a camera and pointed to the lazer. With that he proved that there were two wave lengths. One of corse we can not see it at naked eye.

At Anne clinic she does have one similar with two wave lenghts AT THE SAME TIME and from two difference diodes wich are 632.8 nm and 904 nm.

The two laser machines are big and they call them scanners. usually they are used to cover bigger areas.

Hope

 

[bwspot]

Good to know. Yes it´s usual during the two months after the treatment, then it start to stabelize.

When you say it goes up and down is the up version of it more then what you started with?

 

[Nick J.]

Hmmmm... Did I write that? Please be kind to share the reference - thanks.

Kig længere op her på siden hvor jeg quoter dig!
Det er fra en post med billede af lucky laseren du poster et par sider længere tilbage cirka.

 

[Nick J.]

Hi
When I went to Ibiza. Dr Wilden pick a camera and pointed to the lazer. With that he proved that there were two wave lengths. One of corse we can not see it at naked eye.

Im pretty sure he talks about the homelaser Wildens makes and not the laser he uses in his clinic!

 

[felinefine]

Thank you all! I haven't read everything in these new posts yet, but I am still going to get the Lucky Laser here, just weighing options now on how to proceed.

2 questions:

1)
In the meantime I have made an appointment to go ahead and get the "high frequency" audiologist test done, as I would like to monitor throughout the laser treatment. @FERNANDO GIL I knew when we spoke you suggested to test to up to 16 hz, or to at least 12hz. I have an appointment on the 11th for up to 12hz, but I'm having a problem finding an audiologist's office that tests up to 16hz...you're right! So frustrating as ideally I would really like to have this done.

Anyway, does anyone have any advice on where I am more likely to find tests of up to 16hz. I have called about 6 clinics so far (including one hospital) and was only told they do up to 8 or 12. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places...

2)
Also, I thought possibly that my bad ear was hyper-mobile, as @Rube 's bad ear is, and several others with my particular problem. However, the audiologist said that my tymphanogram test in each ear is considered "type A" in each ear, meaning "normal" on both sides. I think these tests are subjective to the person reading the test though? Or no?

Thank you ~

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

1)
In the meantime I have made an appointment to go ahead and get the "high frequency" audiologist test done, as I would like to monitor throughout the laser treatment. @FERNANDO GIL I knew when we spoke you suggested to test to up to 16 hz, or to at least 12hz. I have an appointment on the 11th for up to 12hz, but I'm having a problem finding an audiologist's office that tests up to 16hz...you're right! So frustrating as ideally I would really like to have this done.

NICE
At least till 12MHZ is better.

lso, I thought possibly that my bad ear was hyper-mobile, as @Rube 's bad ear is, and several others with my particular problem. However, the audiologist said that my tymphanogram test in each ear is considered "type A" in each ear, meaning "normal" on both sides. I think these tests are subjective to the person reading the test though? Or no?

Can´t help in that matter sorry.

 

[felinefine]

Thanks @FERNANDO GIL

 

[felinefine]

@FERNANDO GIL , I was told it would be $202 for shipping costs for the Lucky Laser. Is this what you paid for shipping? oh my gosh, so expensive. I have shipped to China before and it was no where near that expensive. Do you know why this is the case?