Microsuction — Safer with ENT?

#2
Agrajag364 said:
Tinnitus Talk members who were so unfortunate as to get worsened tinnitus after microsuction... Have you had any improvement over time? Also, was your microsuction carried out by an audiologist or an ENT?
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A lot of people that have Mircosuction and ear irrigation haven't been advised to apply ear-drops 3x a day to each ear for 10 days before having wax removed. If this is not done problems can sometimes result in making tinnitus worse or causing tinnitus in some people. The health professional doing this procedure should be taking as much care as possible.

I have had microscution 3 times. Twice by my ENT consultant and once by an ENT Registrar, and had no problems. I have had ear irrigation 3 times at my GP surgery, which was carried out by a Nurse and had no problems. On each occasion when having earwax removed, I was advised to apply eardrops (oil) as mentioned above to completely soften the wax.

Michael

PS: Having earwax removed manually by curette, can also cause problems, if the wax isn't thoroughly softened before removal.
 
#3
Michael Leigh said:
A lot of people that have Mircosuction and ear irrigation haven't been advised to apply ear-drops 3x a day to each ear for 10 days before having wax removed. If this is not done problems can sometimes result in making tinnitus worse or causing tinnitus in some people. The health professional doing this procedure should be taking as much care as possible.

I have had microscution 3 times. Twice by my ENT consultant and once by an ENT Registrar, and had no problems. I have had ear irrigation 3 times at my GP surgery, which was carried out by a Nurse and had no problems. On each occasion when having earwax removed, I was advised to apply eardrops (oil) as mentioned above to completely soften the wax.

Michael

PS: Having earwax removed manually by curette, can also cause problems, if the wax isn't thoroughly softened before removal.
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Yes Michael you've posted this a number of times. It's good it didn't worsen for you, but I recall a few people on Tinnitus Talk got worse after microsuction despite using oil for 10 days, so let's not make any big assumptions that worsening cannot happen if one adheres to your protocol. It seems likely it goes well for the majority, at least.
 
#4
Agrajag364 said:
so let's not make any big assumptions that worsening cannot happen if one adheres to your protocol. It seems likely it goes well for the majority, at least.
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I am not making any assumptions @Agrajag364 I am only stating the correct procedure for having earwax removed. As far as some people who say they used eardrops 3x a day for 10 days before having microsuction or ear irrigation. I do not believe most of them who say this. They may have applied ear-oil for a few days but I do not believe it was for a full 10 days. It was only when I said eardrops should be used 3x a day for 10 days everyone jumped on the bandwagon and said they done the same - sorry I do not believe them.

I say this because some of the people that have PM'd me in this forum have admitted they were never told to use any eardrops or only used it for 2 to 3 days before having microsuction or irrigation.

All the best to you.

Michael
 
#5
Michael Leigh said:
I am not making any assumptions @Agrajag364 ....As far as some people who say they used eardrops 3x a day for 10 days before having microsuction or ear irrigation. I do not believe most of them who say this. They may have applied ear-oil for a few days but I do not believe it was for a full 10 days. It was only when I said eardrops should be used 3x a day for 10 days everyone jumped on the bandwagon and said they done the same - sorry I do not believe them.
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Not believing these people is in itself an assumption

I do think your posts are rather well written and I'm impressed by the time you spend trying to help others but you are too often contradictory

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone about their experiences with microsuction worsenings. According to the available academic literature, they are often temporary, though there are many here who have both said that was not the case for them.

I have been told by various healthcare professionals that the noise created by the machine can be reduced by turning the machine down, and also that the noise can be further reduced by using a very fine tip. I do also wonder whether technical skill has any bearing on the risks of worsening things.
 
#6
Agrajag364 said:
Not believing these people is in itself an assumption

I do think your posts are rather well written and I'm impressed by the time you spend trying to help others but you are too often contradictory

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone about their experiences with microsuction worsenings. According to the available academic literature, they are often temporary, though there are many here who have both said that was not the case for them.

I have been told by various healthcare professionals that the noise created by the machine can be reduced by turning the machine down, and also that the noise can be further reduced by using a very fine tip. I do also wonder whether technical skill has any bearing on the risks of worsening things.
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You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine based on 23 years experience with "Noise induced tinnitus". According to my consultant and hearing therapist, I have a very severe form of tinnitus, that they rarely see in other people with this condition. Their words not mine.

Good day to you and I will not be commenting further on this topic.
Michael
 
#7
DO NOT DO MICROSUCTION.

A piece of wax can get lodged in the end and cause an enormously loud sound right in your ear canal. It is a barbaric practice that should probably be banned.
 
#8
JohnAdams said:
DO NOT DO MICROSUCTION.

A piece of wax can get lodged in the end and cause an enormously loud sound right in your ear canal. It is a barbaric practice that should probably be banned.
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Completely wrong. Mircrosuction is the best form of earwax removal when proper procedures have been carried out. I have been told this by more than one ENT consultant and have had Microsuction 3 times with no problem. I have severe tinnitus and no problems at all. It is incorrect preparation that causes the problem not the microsuction.

Michael
 
#9
Michael Leigh said:
Completely wrong. Mircrosuction is the best form of earwax removal when proper procedures have been carried out. I have been told this by more than one ENT consultant and have had Microsuction 3 times with no problem. I have severe tinnitus and no problems at all. It is incorrect preparation that causes the problem not the microsuction.

Michael
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It's a fuck'in vacuum cleaner in your ear. Why would even risk this?

Not Michael
 
#10
Michael Leigh said:
Completely wrong. Mircrosuction is the best form of earwax removal when proper procedures have been carried out. I have been told this by more than one ENT consultant and have had Microsuction 3 times with no problem. I have severe tinnitus and no problems at all. It is incorrect preparation that causes the problem not the microsuction.

Michael
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@JohnAdams is right here.

Over 50% of people report adverse effects from microsuction.

But I know reading scientific sources is an unknown concept for you Michael Leigh...
 
#11
annV said:
@JohnAdams is right here.

Over 50% of people report adverse effects from microsuction.

But I know reading scientific sources is an unknown concept for you Michael Leigh...
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Science has nothing to do with tinnitus especially Noise induced tinnitus. There is nothing wrong with Microsuction when it is done correctly and proper preparation is carried out. That is: applying eardrops/ olive oil 3x a day to each ear for 10 days before Microscution. It is unfortunate that some people are not told this before having microsuction, ear irrigation or manual removal by curette, because problems can result. People are quick to blame Microsuction as dangerous which it can be, if proper preparation is not done.

Michael
 
#15
I emailed quite a number of ENTs about the safest method of wax removal because wax is what precipitated my tinnitus. Opinion varied, but broadly the consensus seems to be that Micro-suction was the preferred method of removal overall, but manual removal with tools was the least likely to exacerbate tinnitus. The main problem laid out with manual removal was that it was unsafe to use manual removal of the wax was attached to the actual eardrum, because of the risk of perforating the very delicate eardrum.

Having said that one said he was willing to use tools to take it off the drum, but some of the others said if asked to absolutely minimise the risk of tinnitus worsening, they would use manual tools and then suction only for any wax on the drum. Oil should be used before suction or irrigation, but the benefits of oil were less certain with manual removal, as if wax was softened too much this could make manual removal difficult.

In my case I suspect I may have some earwax attached to the eardrum. So I am wondering how to best minimise the risks of noise exacerbation. As mentioned, I have been told that using a fine tip can reduce the noise.

But I also wonder whether the technical skill of the practitioner comes into play, and whether ENTs are more skilled than audiologists.

So I would be interested to hear from those who did worsen after micro suction. Did they use oil for the mysterious 10 days? Did they come a cropper with audiologists, or ENTs?
 
#16
Agrajag364 said:
Wow.
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A tinnitus veteran or someone that has been seasoned to tinnitus knows the truth as I do when it comes to science and tinnitus. The only way one can understand tinnitus is to experience it. It is something that cannot be taught as such. Theory has its place and one can learn a lot about the anatomy of the ear and auditory system but understanding tinnitus and the way it affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing cannot be learnt from any book, college or University. No amount of medical qualifications or Phds can teach it.

Michael
 
#17
Michael Leigh said:
A tinnitus veteran or someone that has been seasoned to tinnitus knows the truth as I do when it comes to science and tinnitus. The only way one can understand tinnitus is to experience it. It is something that cannot be taught as such. Theory has its place and one can learn a lot about the anatomy of the ear and auditory system but understanding tinnitus and the way it affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing cannot be learnt from any book, college or University. No amount of medical qualifications or Phds can teach it.

Michael
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Science is about verifiable hypotheses. It is about gathering evidence for the truth of something. The process may sometimes be flawed but the intention is pure. You cannot assert that your sole opinion outweighs all published evidence, like Kipling in a Just So story.
 
#18
Micro suction was, without a doubt, the WORST decision of my life, one I hugely regret to this day. My ears haven't improved much and are negatively affected by loud noise. It has affected so many areas of my life and I curse the incompetence of the 'Audiologist' (AND his RECEPTIONIST) who carried out the procedure.

I was ASSURED that MS would not worsen my tinnitus despite my concerns. I truly wish that I had listened to my gut instinct and run a mile. The procedure consisted of him quickly squirting oil into my ears and spending forever trying to remove a small amount of wax which wasn't bothersome. He was completely incompetent (his Receptionist has to show him how to operate the camera into my ear - I should've taken this as a warning as clearly he didn't know how to operate his new equipment! He was instilling fear & negativity into me regarding my hearing and how he thought I wasn't coping well..... not very professional from someone who should be helping!

All this from someone who 'runs' a BTA support group too!!! Support my arse! More like wanting to line his big fat pockets preying on the vulnerability of tinnitus sufferers! Some of these healthcare 'professionals' haven't a clue about this condition- it's all textbook shit they spout!

Yeah, so to conclude.... I'd recommend NEVER to try micro suction!! Too risky for such a delicate organ! If only I knew then what I know now!!! Sigh.... :(
 
#19
Vicki14 said:
Micro suction was, without a doubt, the WORST decision of my life, one I hugely regret to this day. My ears haven't improved much and are negatively affected by loud noise. It has affected so many areas of my life and I curse the incompetence of the 'Audiologist' (AND his RECEPTIONIST) who carried out the procedure.

I was ASSURED that MS would not worsen my tinnitus despite my concerns. I truly wish that I had listened to my gut instinct and run a mile. The procedure consisted of him quickly squirting oil into my ears and spending forever trying to remove a small amount of wax which wasn't bothersome. He was completely incompetent (his Receptionist has to show him how to operate the camera into my ear - I should've taken this as a warning as clearly he didn't know how to operate his new equipment! He was instilling fear & negativity into me regarding my hearing and how he thought I wasn't coping well..... not very professional from someone who should be helping!

All this from someone who 'runs' a BTA support group too!!! Support my arse! More like wanting to line his big fat pockets preying on the vulnerability of tinnitus sufferers! Some of these healthcare 'professionals' haven't a clue about this condition- it's all textbook shit they spout!

Yeah, so to conclude.... I'd recommend NEVER to try micro suction!! Too risky for such a delicate organ! If only I knew then what I know now!!! Sigh.... :(
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I am so sorry about this. I can't bear to go back to that support group for that same reason… How long do you think the suction went on for? Did it sound really frighteningly loud?
 
#21
Agrajag364 said:
Science is about verifiable hypotheses. It is about gathering evidence for the truth of something. The process may sometimes be flawed but the intention is pure. You cannot assert that your sole opinion outweighs all published evidence, like Kipling in a Just So story.
Click to expand...

I am right and you are wrong. With respect you have had tinnitus for 5 mins so I don't expect you to believe anything different. In time you will learn.

Goodbye and I wish you well
Michael
 
#22
Michael Leigh said:
As far as some people who say they used eardrops 3x a day for 10 days before having microsuction or ear irrigation. I do not believe most of them who say this. They may have applied ear-oil for a few days but I do not believe it was for a full 10 days. It was only when I said eardrops should be used 3x a day for 10 days everyone jumped on the bandwagon and said they done the same - sorry I do not believe them.
Click to expand...
I find this very offensive from someone who is making opinionated assumptions. Why do you have to make everything about yourself? You're rude to people unless they agree with the way you see things. This thread is not about your opinions.
 
#23
I had microsuction in 2016 and my ears and hearing suffered enormously. The procedure was done by an 'ENT' doctor... Who carelessly caused clarinetting to happen during the procedure. It was very loud and I had pain in my ears. I didn't know what to expect, or that this noise/pain shouldn't have been happening as the doctor didn't explain a thing. I had extreme hyperacusis and tinnitus in the days that followed, which hasn't improved much at all in over 3 years. I also have excruciating nerve pain in my ears, face, neck and shoulders and constant fullness in my ears. I believe that the microsuction caused sshl from acoustic trauma, as well as acoustic shock (I also have ttts). In the months following this procedure I had extreme fullness in my ears, which persists and has recently been diagnosed as cochlear hydrops... And this affects my hearing to this day. Before microsuction I had NO tinnitus, no hyperacusis, my ears were completely healthy. Going to see this ENT and allowing him to remove the wax (using microsuction) was THE WORST MISTAKE I've ever made! So to answer your question, NO MICROSUCTION IS NOT SAFER WITH AN ENT.

For the record I used ear drops for almost 2 weeks prior to having the microsuction procedure. It made absolutely no difference whatsoever. If a certain person doesn't believe this then that's his problem... But don't call me a liar!
 
#24
Blue28 said:
I find this very offensive from someone who is making opinionated assumptions. Why do you have to make everything about yourself? You're rude to people unless they agree with the way you see things. This thread is not about your opinions.
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I am replying to your comments just this once. You have been disrespectful towards me on more than one occasion in the passed when I was trying to help you so will not be corresponding with you again. I know what I am talking about when it comes to microsuction since I have severe tinnitus and have had the procedure three times without any problems. This is the best form of earwax removal especially when it has become impacted on the eardrum and within the ear canal. As I have previously mentioned, correct preparation has to be carried out prior to having microsuction done. The health professional needs to be skilled too and not rush the procedure.

There are people in this forum and other forums that I attend, condemning mircrosuction and saying it has made their tinnitus worse. When I have corresponded with these people in more depth and asked questions. Quite a few have admitted they were being less than truthful when saying they did apply eardrops/olive oil 3x a day to each ear for 10 days. I was the first person to mention this. People have emailed me and telephoned saying they have had microsuction and developed tinnitus or the condition has become worse. After asking questions I have been told they were not advised to use eardrops 3x a day for 10 days. Some were told eardrops is not necessary others advised 2 or 3 days is all that's needed. This is incorrect procedure.

I stand by what I have said. Every medical procedure carries risk but when earwax is impacted and hardened, if it is not removed additional problems will result. Microsuction done correctly and proper preparation carried out is the best way to do this.

As I have said I will not be corresponding with you further for the reason I have mentioned above.

Michael Leigh
 
#25
JohnAdams said:
ENT's are mostly ignorant buffoons when it comes to tinnitus. They are basically Nazi foot soldiers.
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This did make me laugh. ENT doctors are highly qualified physicians and know about the Ear, Nose and Throat. They can treat them medically or surgically and I believe most do this well and to the best of their ability. Tinnitus, is a different kettle of fish and it is not their area of expertise. It is the Hearing Therapist or Audiologist that is trained in the treatment of tinnitus and hyperacusis, who are the correct health professionals one should see, when it is determined, no underlying medical problem is causing the tinnitus, particularly when it is noise induced.

Michael
 
#26
Agrajag364 said:
I am so sorry about this. I can't bear to go back to that support group for that same reason… How long do you think the suction went on for? Did it sound really frighteningly loud?
Click to expand...

I don't remember it sounding particularly loud but it went on for at least 10 mins, longer in my right ear where the wax was. I didn't applying ear drops beforehand, wasn't advised to either. Hope you're well.
 
#27
Michael Leigh said:
I am right and you are wrong. With respect you have had tinnitus for 5 mins so I don't expect you to believe anything different. In time you will learn.
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I'm wrong that science is about verifiable hypotheses and gathering evidence? I don't think you understand the scientific process or my point.
 
#28
Blue28 said:
I had microsuction in 2016 and my ears and hearing suffered enormously. The procedure was done by an 'ENT' doctor... Who carelessly caused clarinetting to happen during the procedure. It was very loud and I had pain in my ears. I didn't know what to expect, or that this noise/pain shouldn't have been happening as the doctor didn't explain a thing. I had extreme hyperacusis and tinnitus in the days that followed, which hasn't improved much at all in over 3 years. I also have excruciating nerve pain in my ears, face, neck and shoulders and constant fullness in my ears. I believe that the microsuction caused sshl from acoustic trauma, as well as acoustic shock (I also have ttts). In the months following this procedure I had extreme fullness in my ears, which persists and has recently been diagnosed as cochlear hydrops... And this affects my hearing to this day. Before microsuction I had NO tinnitus, no hyperacusis, my ears were completely healthy. Going to see this ENT and allowing him to remove the wax (using microsuction) was THE WORST MISTAKE I've ever made! So to answer your question, NO MICROSUCTION IS NOT SAFER WITH AN ENT.

For the record I used ear drops for almost 2 weeks prior to having the microsuction procedure. It made absolutely no difference whatsoever. If a certain person doesn't believe this then that's his problem... But don't call me a liar!
Click to expand...
Thank you and I'm so sorry for your experience.
 
#29
JohnAdams said:
ENT's are mostly ignorant buffoons when it comes to tinnitus. They are basically Nazi foot soldiers.
Click to expand...
Whilst almost all said that Microsuction was the preferred option overall, about half said that manual removal was the least likely to exacerbate tinnitus.
 
#30
Michael Leigh said:
ENT doctors are highly qualified physicians and know about the Ear,
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Okay, not only did I discover your true identity, I also found out where you live.
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