Mindfulness Is Key to Tinnitus Relief Research Reveals

[linearb]

You're saying being cured isn't as important as learning to deal with a disease. How does that even make sense?

what? No I'm not, that's crazy.

You're suggesting that we can't work on multiple problems at the same time. Actually, we can and are.

Additionally, I am saying that over the 20 years I've had tinnitus, the techniques being studied in this work have been useful to me in increasing my quality of life. Therefore, I am interested in seeing them refined, having a better understanding on how they work, as well as what their limitations are (and how, if at all, they can actually affect the progression of tinnitus over time).

The research pipeline "cures" being discussed instead, are vaporware at present. The stuff this (mindfulness) research has looked into has directly improved my own life, and a lot of the ways I have integrated it are based on research that's only been done over the last decade or two. So, it's simply crazy to me for someone to tell me that this research isn't in my interest. If it's not in yours, that's cool, you probably also don't like the same sports teams I do.

to come back to your initial quote here, I am saying that Until we're able to be cured of a disease, it's important to learn how to live with it as well as possible, and very rational to investigate ways of doing that clinically.

Believe me, I want nothing more than a cure. I've spent thousands and traveled thousands of miles being a lab rat for 2 different device trials, and I'd really like to not be on benzos forever. However, in the mean time, I still gotta live, as do we all.

 

[Jazzer]

Even if it means commiserating with our (often Soulful) furry friends when the burden at times feels too much to bear.

You're talking my language there Lane.
When I talk to, stroke, and love my pussycats I am very much aware that they know nothing about my affliction.
To them, I am their dad, and I am 'whole.'
I love all three, who have totally different characters, and I love them just as I would love people.
(PS - I admit to being 'soppy as a sack!')

 

[threefirefour]

You're free to disagree with me, but you're not some cosmic arbiter of what is or isn't important. As far as I know, you're a person who now has a minor form of tinnitus and has lived with it for a relatively short period of time; it is the height of arrogance and condescension for you to imply you understand my own interests better than I do.

No offense but in his case I do. Getting rid of disease is better than learning how to live with it, as John Adams said.

 

[Lane]

Getting rid of disease is better than learning how to live with it,

Totally agree, but in the meantime...

 

[Agrajag364]

If what you say about it being unexplored territory is true, then why should we waste our time and resources on something that will be obsolete for tinnitus by the time it is well understood? If it's that far off then Neuromodulation and hearing regeneration will dominate the market and it can't compete with that.

You could argue it's good for a blanket of issues, but then why waste TINNITUS dollars on it? Waste anxiety money on it, or something overfunded like ADHD but us, we need every penny we can get.

This isn't meant to be snarky @threefirefour but I don't know why you say we when your tinnitus is gone.

 

[threefirefour]

Totally agree, but in the meantime...

Yes I know the "but muh meantime" argument mindfulness shills use to deflect the flaws in their argument.

Yes there's no treatment now, but the "meantime" of suffering will only be prolonged by not donating everything we've got to actual research. Because of this, ironically wasteful studies like this hurt us in the meantime.

And as Linearb said, it's not a fully explored field. I doubt this but if this is true then this means this isn't optimal in the meantime, and when it is optimized it will be obsolete.

 

[threefirefour]

This isn't meant to be snarky @threefirefour but I don't know why you say we when your tinnitus is gone.

I said we because I'm still part of the tinnitus community. Just because it's gone now doesn't mean I don't know what it's like. I still understand how much it sucks and how much we need a treatment. I experienced pre-tinnitus, tinnitus, and post-tinnitus. Trust me when you get yours treated you'll end up understanding. Even @kelpiemsp came around to some degree.

 

[linearb]

No offense but in his case I do. Getting rid of disease is better than learning how to live with it, as John Adams said.

I'm not offended, you just seem stubborn to a fault son this subject to me and from my perspective you're not seeing the forest for the trees, but it's cool, we don't have to agree.

Obviously, getting rid of disease is better than learning to live with it. Nowhere did I disparage that; this is a strawman you're making for me.

 

[threefirefour]

I'm not offended, you just seem stubborn to a fault son this subject to me and from my perspective you're not seeing the forest for the trees, but it's cool, we don't have to agree.

Obviously, getting rid of disease is better than learning to live with it. Nowhere did I disparage that; this is a strawman you're making for me.

I'm not strawmaning you I know what your point is. You think that a cure would be best but in the meantime we need something to help sufferers. My point is by wasting our money on pointless studies like these were prolonging the unoptimal period of not having a treatment, therefore it's in our best interest right now to not fund it, so we can work on getting to a treatment faster.

 

[linearb]

I'm not strawmaning you I know what your point is. You think that a cure would be best but in the meantime we need something to help sufferers. My point is by wasting our money on pointless studies like these

I get it, and you lose me at "pointless", and it's quite clear we're not going to agree on that, so my more technical objections to your arguments aren't even worth going into because we're ideologically not valuing things the same way.

 

[threefirefour]

I get it, and you lose me at "pointless", and it's quite clear we're not going to agree on that, so my more technical objections to your arguments aren't even worth going into because we're ideologically not valuing things the same way.

I'm just saying. If you go over the game theory behind it... I'm right.

 

[jay777]

That is the power of a well-honed, well-used, well-loved mind filled with self-compassion, patience and contemplative skill.

And a lot of painkillers.

 

[linearb]

I'm just saying. If you go over the game theory behind it... I'm right.

From a utilitarian point of view, as I said before, this exact kind of research has directly improved the quality of my life - so it's quite hilarious to be debating whether or not you are "right".

Dismissing that with some nonspecific nod to "game theory" is reduction to absurdity.

 

[Agrajag364]

I said we because I'm still part of the tinnitus community. Just because it's gone now doesn't mean I don't know what it's like. I still understand how much it sucks and how much we need a treatment. I experienced pre-tinnitus, tinnitus, and post-tinnitus. Trust me when you get yours treated you'll end up understanding. Even @kelpiemsp came around to some degree.

OK well it's great you still consider yourself part of the community. I used to have something grim called new daily persistent headache; a constant headache. It does not usually go away and mine went away after years. I stayed in the main group for the condition so I could tell people it does go sometimes and most importantly to share the stuff I did to help it go on the off chance it helps others. It would be good if you could do this. Your memes are hilarious and all, but still.

 

[threefirefour]

From a utilitarian point of view, as I said before, this exact kind of research has directly improved the quality of my life - so it's quite hilarious to be debating whether or not you are "right".

Dismissing that with some nonspecific nod to "game theory" is reduction to absurdity.

Sorry what I was saying is from a purely practical stance my POV makes more sense.

Imagine you're outside, and it starts raining. You want to go inside so you don't get wet. Do you get less wet if you run or walk? If you run. Because even though you're running into more drops you spend much less time in the rain.

If we cut the fat out of tinnitus research and spend it on treatment options, were running in the rain. We spend less time suffering.

 

[threefirefour]

OK well it's great you still consider yourself part of the community. I used to have something grim called new daily persistent headache; a constant headache. It does not usually go away and mine went away after years. I stayed in the main group for the condition so I could tell people it does go sometimes and most importantly to share the stuff I did to help it go on the off chance it helps others. It would be good if you could do this. Your memes are hilarious and all, but still.

Well mine was TMD tinnitus. Most people can't benefit from what I did. But some people DM me asking me for help

 

[GlennS]

That's extremely unlikely because pretty much every medical condition will eventually be cured.

Ever heard the term, expect the worst, hope for the best (or vice versa)? No? Learn it. Then you won't be disappointed. But I'm catching a LOT of desperation in this forum which is channeling itself into magical thinking like the above on one extreme and misdirected rage on the other (Bam being the main offender). Neither are really going to help matters. Also look into Kubler Ross stages of grief.

The more mental energy I devote to T the more I suffer. The more I direct my mental energy towards other tasks, whatever it is, the more I win that round. T is always there and always drags you down but the trick is to keep doggy-paddling to keep your head above water. That's my interpretation of "mindfulness". It's not a cure, but it is one of the only coping mechanisms that works and isn't self-destructive.

 

[threefirefour]

Ever heard the term, expect the worst, hope for the best (or vice versa)? No? Learn it. Then you won't be disappointed. But I'm catching a LOT of desperation in this forum which is channeling itself into magical thinking like the above on one extreme and misdirected rage on the other (Bam being the main offender). Neither are really going to help matters. Also look into Kubler Ross stages of grief.

The more mental energy I devote to T the more I suffer. The more I direct my mental energy towards other tasks, whatever it is, the more I win that round. T is always there and always drags you down but the trick is to keep doggy-paddling to keep your head above water. That's my interpretation of "mindfulness". It's not a cure, but it is one of the only coping mechanisms that works and isn't self-destructive.

Alright you're behind. You dissed the forum as being a hive of desperation but you aren't on the level yet to understand this dialogue. Might help to go back and reread.

 

[JohnAdams]

I'm not offended, you just seem stubborn to a fault son this subject to me and from my perspective you're not seeing the forest for the trees, but it's cool, we don't have to agree.

Obviously, getting rid of disease is better than learning to live with it. Nowhere did I disparage that; this is a strawman you're making for me.

Okay then, let me get the argument back on track. Zero dollars should be spent on tinnitus research that focuses on mindfulness. We get it, mind over matter. No extra studying is going to make this point any clearer or derive some secret psychological technique that will make this any easier.

 

[linearb]

Okay then, let me get the argument back on track. Zero dollars should be spent on tinnitus research that focuses on mindfulness. We get it, mind over matter. No extra studying is going to make this point any clearer or derive some secret psychological technique that will make this any easier.

Sure, very succinctly I disagree because I think there's a ton of things yet to be learned about how conscious attention impacts neurology and longevity, including both tinnitus specifically and brains in general.

Saying "mind over matter" implies that you don't get it; that's not what any of this is about. That's not how meditation/mindfulness works, at all, but that's a tangent I'd rather explore in PMs or in a different thread.

Saying that a technique won't be derived, overlooks the significant changes in clinical approaches to these practices which have occurred only relatively recently as a result of research like this.

Again, this book is a pretty good summary of (as of ~5-6 years ago) the state of science surrounding attention practices. There's a lot of fascinating things in here that are reasonably conclusive, there's also a lot of neat ideas that don't yet have any evidentiary basis, and a wider space of things we really don't understand at all:

https://www.amazon.com/Selfless-Insight-Meditative-Transformations-Consciousness/dp/0262516659

 

[annV]

Props to @linearb! He is the adult in this discussion with actual thought provoking arguments.

linearb 1 - JohnAdams 0

 

[Contrast]

And a lot of painkillers.

ototoxic pain killers for noise induced pain...

 

[linearb]

I'm sorry for the walls of text, I just get triggered when people demand defunding of something which has had a significant and positive impact on my life

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I said we because I'm still part of the tinnitus community. Just because it's gone now doesn't mean I don't know what it's like. I still understand how much it sucks and how much we need a treatment. I experienced pre-tinnitus, tinnitus, and post-tinnitus. Trust me when you get yours treated you'll end up understanding. Even @kelpiemsp came around to some degree.

Wait - your tinnitus is gone?

Can we get the who/what/when/where/why of this story?

 

[GlennS]

I just get triggered when people demand defunding of something which has had a significant and positive impact on my life

What bothers me is the way some people come across as if the world should treat them like they're the center of the universe. That's not to deny anyone's suffering, but the fact is the world is full of suffering people of all stripes. Tinnitus is just one and unfortunately it winds up competing for mindshare and funding, and when there's competition, there's drama.

 

[david c]

Therefore, I am interested in seeing them refined, having a better understanding on how they work, as well as what their limitations are

And if we had infinite resources and infinite amounts of time then I'm sure that these things would be moderately interesting to find out. But this research was funded by an organisation - the BTA - which is forever telling us how limited the amount of research resources it has. Therefore I'd much rather it started spending some of them at least contributing to good quality biomedical research. Maybe therefore you could find some billionaire to help find these out instead.

 

[JohnAdams]

I'm sorry for the walls of text, I just get triggered when people demand defunding of something which has had a significant and positive impact on my life

Well since your hypno-science works so well then maybe we could take break from funding that and focus all funding on an actual cure?

 

[linearb]

Well since your hypno-science works so well then maybe we could take break from funding that and focus all funding on an actual cure?

 

[JohnAdams]

View attachment 26548

Because there is a finite amount of resources going to this and plenty of room for more funding for bio-medical research.

If I'm not mistaken, the research field for tinnitus is already dominated by pseudo-psychological malarky anyway.

 

[linearb]

okay, cool, well I'll just disagree with you and you can stop giving money to the BTA or whatever if you want! pretty clear we'll never agree on this, and ultimately it'll be a footnote in whatever the long term evolution of tinnitus care is