Miss Gaming with Headphones — Can I Wear Ear Plugs Under the Headphones?

[CroakyBat]

Before re-aggravating my T a month and a half ago I used to game with headphones all the time, and I never had any noticeable spikes from using them (the re-aggravation was from a concert). Since joining the forum I have seen so many people advocating against using headphones especially after acoustic trauma-induced T, so I have stayed away. Since it's been a relatively short time since the trauma, and I believe there has been some improvement, I do not want to risk re-injury. But of course, I miss being able to hear my game volume through headphones. I find it to be a lot more immersive that way and an overall better experience, without the sound even having to be loud. Just having the sound "surround" me is enough. I also have some friends that I used to chat and play online with, but haven't since my spike, and I do miss being able to do that.

That being said, I would like your opinions on wearing ear plugs under the headphones, which will of course be at a low volume. I just got a set of high fidelity musician's plugs, and the headphones I have fit fine over them. I would love to be able to return to some of things I used to be able to do before this T spike, but I obviously want to do so in a safe way. All feedback is appreciated, thanks!

 

[GregCA]

Before re-aggravating my T a month and a half ago I used to game with headphones all the time, and I never had any noticeable spikes from using them (the re-aggravation was from a concert). Since joining the forum I have seen so many people advocating against using headphones especially after acoustic trauma-induced T, so I have stayed away. Since it's been a relatively short time since the trauma, and I believe there has been some improvement, I do not want to risk re-injury. But of course, I miss being able to hear my game volume through headphones. I find it to be a lot more immersive that way and an overall better experience, without the sound even having to be loud. Just having the sound "surround" me is enough. I also have some friends that I used to chat and play online with, but haven't since my spike, and I do miss being able to do that.

That being said, I would like your opinions on wearing ear plugs under the headphones, which will of course be at a low volume. I just got a set of high fidelity musician's plugs, and the headphones I have fit fine over them. I would love to be able to return to some of things I used to be able to do before this T spike, but I obviously want to do so in a safe way. All feedback is appreciated, thanks!

I use headphones without earplugs underneath and just keep the volume low.

 

[JohnAdams]

You're playing with fire.

 

[CroakyBat]

I use headphones without earplugs underneath and just keep the volume low.

As I'm sure you've seen, there are many people on this forum that would advise against that, so I really do not want to take that risk right now. For now I would either use the plugs if that is deemed safe or not use headphones at all.

 

[CroakyBat]

You're playing with fire.

Really? Even with the ear protection and the headphones being at a low volume? I'm not asking this because I don't believe you, it is just a little surprising that damage could still be caused that way. Then again I'm sure that's the mentality most people have before they do something and screw up their ears, lol. If there's a genuine cause for concern, that's enough for me not to do it - don't want to do anything risky. Just thought most if not all risk would be removed in this scenario.

 

[Michael Leigh]

As I'm sure you've seen, there are many people on this forum that would advise against that, so I really do not want to take that risk right now. For now I would either use the plugs if that is deemed safe or not use headphones at all.

I advise you to click on the link below and read the entire thread. I have had many years experience with Noise induced tinnitus, which is what you have. I know the dangers of using headphones for people with NIT even at low volume. You are playing with fire using them even with earplugs. People have telephoned me crying because their tinnitus has increased because of headphone use.

I am not here to argue, just telling you the facts as I see it. Headphones are the most dangerous devices for anyone that has tinnitus caused by exposure to loud noise. Not everyone with NIT is affected by headphone use but most people are. Once the tinnitus increases due to headphone use, often it will not reduce to its previous baseline level.

Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...fading-to-pre-spike-levels.36030/#post-460850

 

[CroakyBat]

I advise you to click on the link below and read the entire thread. I have had many years experience with Noise induced tinnitus, which is what you have. I know the dangers of using headphones for people with NIT even at low volume. You are playing with fire using them even with earplugs. People have telephoned me crying because their tinnitus has increased because of headphone use.

I am not here to argue, just telling you the facts as I see it. Headphones are the most dangerous devices for anyone that has tinnitus caused by exposure to loud noise. Not everyone with NIT is affected by headphone use but most people are. Once the tinnitus increases due to headphone use, often it will not reduce to its previous baseline level.

Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...fading-to-pre-spike-levels.36030/#post-460850

I'm not here to argue either, just seeking out advice, and thank you for yours. Reading the thread I assume you would say the spike in my tinnitus a month ago was not technically a result of the loud concert, but because I had been using headphones regularly after my tinnitus onset which made me hypersensitive and vulnerable... I will say though that in the 6 years since the tinnitus onset I never had any severe long-term spikes, and there were a handful of times where I was exposed to loud noise during what should have been, according to you, a hyperactive state for my ears. But, I guess the trauma last month could have just been the "tipping point" so to speak.

However, would the ear plugs not succeed in 1) dampening the sound from the headphones to levels safe for my ears, and therefore 2) restricting the headphone noise from making my ears hypersensitive ?

 

[Blodorn]

Before re-aggravating my tinnitus a month and a half ago I used to game with headphones all the time, and I never had any noticeable spikes from using them (the re-aggravation was from a concert). Since joining the forum I have seen so many people advocating against using headphones especially after acoustic trauma-induced tinnitus, so I have stayed away. Since it's been a relatively short time since the trauma, and I believe there has been some improvement, I do not want to risk re-injury. But of course, I miss being able to hear my game volume through headphones. I find it to be a lot more immersive that way and an overall better experience, without the sound even having to be loud. Just having the sound "surround" me is enough. I also have some friends that I used to chat and play online with, but haven't since my spike, and I do miss being able to do that.

That being said, I would like your opinions on wearing ear plugs under the headphones, which will of course be at a low volume. I just got a set of high fidelity musician's plugs, and the headphones I have fit fine over them. I would love to be able to return to some of things I used to be able to do before this tinnitus spike, but I obviously want to do so in a safe way. All feedback is appreciated, thanks!

Hi, I don't have any answer for you, but I just post to tell you we're in the same boat haha, I miss headphones for gaming so much as well!

Especially for competitive games! I play Overwatch a lot and it is much harder to be skilled without communication and knowing where an enemy come from haha

I play The Witcher 3 now, and it is hard to be in immersion without headphones.
So hard to stay away from my headphones!

What I can say however, is that I used my headphones for about 1 month after my onset without noticeable problems. I stopped using headphones when I found the forum. But I'm not 100% sure what caused my tinnitus, so idk.

Take care and play well mate!

 

[John Mahan]

I'm not here to argue either, just seeking out advice, and thank you for yours. Reading the thread I assume you would say the spike in my T a month ago was not technically a result of the loud concert, but because I had been using headphones regularly after my T onset which made me hypersensitive and vulnerable... I will say though that in the 6 years since the T onset I never had any severe long-term spikes, and there were a handful of times where I was exposed to loud noise during what should have been, according to you, a hyperactive state for my ears. But, I guess the trauma last month could have just been the "tipping point" so to speak.

However, would the ear plugs not succeed in 1) dampening the sound from the headphones to levels safe for my ears, and therefore 2) restricting the headphone noise from making my ears hypersensitive ?

That's not what he is saying but you shouldn't heed his advice because he doesn't know what he is talking about.

If you want to learn more about your hearing, make an appointment with a Dr. in Audiology and have an in depth conversation about tinnitus, how it comes about and headphones. I have btw.

My Audiologist is in direct opposition to Michael's disservice here...whether he is trying to help or not.

In fact, my Audiologist believes its perfectly fine to use headphones with hyperacusis and NIT which comports with physics.

My Audiologist stated that the 'average person' can listen to an Ipod with earbuds set on 'volume 7' 8-10 hours a day with no hearing damage.

My position is....headphones are perfectly safe but if you have hearing damage, keep them set at low volume.

My Audiologist believes the ears (brain) should be allowed to rest. Duration of music listening 'independent of volume' is as important as volume according to her.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I will say though that in the 6 years since the T onset I never had any severe long-term spikes, and there were a handful of times where I was exposed to loud noise during what should have been, according to you, a hyperactive state for my ears. But, I guess the trauma last month could have just been the "tipping point" so to speak.

Each person is different. But the facts of the matter are this based on my experience with "Noise induced tinnitus" Almost everyone that has this condition and habituates and the tinnitus remains at a low to moderate level that they can comfortably live with, the following can happen:

It doesn't matter whether it's 6months, 12months, 2 years, or 10 years. If a person with NIT develops a "spike" and this continues for longer than a few days, the usual cause is exposure to loud noise or headphone use even at low volume. The risk is always there. This is the danger when someone habituates to "Noise induced tinnitus". They can forget after a while that they have tinnitus because the brain can comfortably ignore it.

I know this because the same thing happened to me in 2008. After years of habitation. One night I was listening to music through my HI-FI system, I turned up the volume and everything seemed fine. Went to bed and the next morning my tinnitus was raging - I had to return to Ent for treatment TRT and it took 4 years for me to recover. My tinnitus is not like it was before. Click on the link below and read my story from 2008 to 2012.

Someone in this forum told me last Christmas, she had habituated to her tinnitus for 6 years and it was low. She decided to use headphones and kept the volume low. Within 1 week her tinnitus increased and now she cannot return to work because her tinnitus is so severe.

It is up to you what you choose to do but my advice is not to use headphones ever again even with earplugs.

Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-experience-with-tinnitus.12076/

 

[CroakyBat]

Hi, I don't have any answer for you, but I just post to tell you we're in the same boat haha, I miss headphones for gaming so much as well!

Especially for competitive games! I play Overwatch a lot and it is much harder to be skilled without communication and knowing where an enemy come from haha

I play The Witcher 3 now, and it is hard to be in immersion without headphones.
So hard to stay away from my headphones!

What I can say however, is that I used my headphones for about 1 month after my onset without noticeable problems. I stopped using headphones when I found the forum. But I'm not 100% sure what caused my tinnitus, so idk.

Take care and play well mate!

@Blodorn at least I know I'm not alone! I play Overwatch too but haven't in a little while, nor any game besides Rocket League really.. Can't even picture myself not being able to communicate with my friends/teammates if I'm playing multiplayer games. And it really makes me sad that I can't play those immersive open world games like Witcher 3 or Skyrim to their full potential, or one of my favorites the Resident Evil games where I believe the sound is very important to the experience. The worst part of this is that just before my T spike I spent a good amount of money on a gaming PC

Hopefully a solution will arrive soon to rid us of this problem. Until then, keep the games flowing and enjoy them the best you can! That's what I'll be trying to do at least, haha. Cheers!

 

[John Mahan]

Each person is different. But the facts of the matter are this based on my experience with "Noise induced tinnitus" Almost everyone that has this condition and habituates and the tinnitus remains at a low to moderate level that they can comfortably live with, the following can happen:

It doesn't matter whether it's 6months, 12months, 2 years, or 10 years. If a person with NIT develops a "spike" and this continues for longer than a few days, the usual cause is exposure to loud noise or headphone use even at low volume. The risk is always there. This is the danger when someone habituates to "Noise induced tinnitus". They can forget after a while that they have tinnitus because the brain can comfortably ignore it.

I know this because the same thing happened to me in 2008. After years of habitation. One night I was listening to music through my HI-FI system, I turned up the volume and everything seemed fine. Went to bed and the next morning my tinnitus was raging - I had to return to Ent for treatment TRT and it took 4 years for me to recover. My tinnitus is not like it was before. Click on the link below and read my story from 2008 to 2012.

Someone in this forum told me last Christmas, she had habituated to her tinnitus for 6 years and it was low. She decided to use headphones and kept the volume low. Within 1 week her tinnitus increased and now she cannot return to work because her tinnitus is so severe.

It is up to you what you choose to do but my advice is not to use headphones ever again even with earplugs.

Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-experience-with-tinnitus.12076/

The problem with Michael is he makes false extrapolations.

People have tinnitus spikes all the time who have never used headphones in their life. Damage to the cochlea is cumulative. Life long. Environment is a big factor of course. But so is health, diet, and a big component is genetics, i.e. predisposition. Take two people subjected to the exact noise trauma including some young men who go off to war, some will come back with tinnitus and others without tinnitus. No headphones.

Michael is the kind of guy who believes if his car breaks down after putting gas in the tank, then he must of added bad gas.

 

[CroakyBat]

That's not what he is saying but you shouldn't heed his advice because he doesn't know what he is talking about.

If you want to learn more about your hearing, make an appointment with a Dr. in Audiology and have an in depth conversation about tinnitus, how it comes about and headphones. I have btw.

My Audiologist is in direct opposition to Michael's disservice here...whether he is trying to help or not.

In fact, my Audiologist believes its perfectly fine to use headphones with hyperacusis and NIT which comports with physics.

My Audiologist stated that the 'average person' can listen to an Ipod with earbuds set on 'volume 7' 8-10 hours a day with no hearing damage.

My position is....headphones are perfectly safe but if you have hearing damage, keep them set at low volume.

My Audiologist believes the ears (brain) should be allowed to rest. Duration of music listening 'independent of volume' is as important as volume according to her.

I met with an ENT after my T spike, and he had very similar advice when we talked pretty in depth about how I should continue after NIT. He said to ditch ear buds completely (which is fine because I'm not a fan anyway) and to use headphones at a volume where I can pretty much just hear the sound. I think he referenced physics too in the explanation. He has received great feedback overall from his patients and I honestly really trust him, but at the end of the day he isn't an audiologist. Maybe I should take your advice and make an appointment with one just to confirm.

There has to be a reason though that so many on this forum say to throw out headphones entirely - it is very hard for me to just dismiss this. I was hoping the ear plugs would make the headphone use safe for those peoples' standards but that doesn't seem to be the case at the moment, so I'll probably be too nervous to do it. In my situation because I'm still healing (at least I hope) I wouldn't use them without the ear plugs, but I am still very unsure about whether it is safe!

The problem with Michael is he makes false extrapolations.

People have tinnitus spikes all the time who have never used headphones in their life. Damage to the cochlea is cumulative. Life long. Environment is a big factor of course. But so is health, diet, and a big component is genetics, i.e. predisposition. Take two people subjected to the exact noise trauma including some young men who go off to war, some will come back with tinnitus and others without tinnitus. No headphones.

Michael is the kind of guy who believes if his car breaks down after putting gas in the tank, then he must of added bad gas.

I understand what you mean. I still do appreciate Michael's feedback though because that is what I wanted in the first place. I don't find it far-fetched that headphones would actually cause T if they are too loud or if the person is exposed to the sound for too long. I even accept the notion that because of how recent my acoustic trauma was I should steer clear of headphones to let myself heal. I really am just wondering about the ear plugs and if they will alleviate the dangers (whether they actually exist or not) of using headphones.

 

[newbieT]

@CroakyBat I have T for 2 and half years now and I use headphones at work every day then go to gym with headphones and then go home and play games with headphones. I Probably put in 2000 hours between Overwatch and Apex Legends. My T was noise induced from a concert so according to some people here I shouldn't use headphones. But the usage hasn't effected me. Just dont blast the music.

On most modern phones, there is a audio limiter that gives you a warning when it's too high, and I'm usually 1/2 way to that warning bar.

At home when I'm playing games, I turn up the sound since at comp league, you need to hear footsteps. What I found super useful in this case is a program called Soundlock for windows. This program has a user set limit on the audio level so you can turn up the sound for footsteps but a super loud sound like gunshots gets lowered as set by your limiter.

I was very into raves and concerts but gave up all that due to T, so while I do think loud noises could cause a threshold shift in T, sounds less than 85dB is safe and headphones doesn't just suddenly make your T worse if you listen at a reasonable level

 

[GregCA]

As I'm sure you've seen, there are many people on this forum that would advise against that, so I really do not want to take that risk right now. For now I would either use the plugs if that is deemed safe or not use headphones at all.

Ironically, using ear plugs under your headphones may expose your hearing apparatus to more stress.

Why? Because in order to hear the sound you'll have to crank up the volume higher than if you didn't have the plugs. Your ear drum will receive a reasonable amount of sound (the same amount as if you'd used a lower volume without the plugs), but the rest of your head/ear that is composed of everything under the headphone cup minus the path blocked by the plug, will be subjected to higher volumes of sound, some of which can get through via bone conduction (the low frequencies). Unlikely to do damage, I think, but not particularly useful either.

It's a bit ridiculous if you think about it: you're asking about a method that will require you to increase the volume in your headphones in order to hear the same amount of sound detail by your ear drum.

 

[addot]

Before re-aggravating my T a month and a half ago I used to game with headphones all the time, and I never had any noticeable spikes from using them (the re-aggravation was from a concert). Since joining the forum I have seen so many people advocating against using headphones especially after acoustic trauma-induced T, so I have stayed away. Since it's been a relatively short time since the trauma, and I believe there has been some improvement, I do not want to risk re-injury. But of course, I miss being able to hear my game volume through headphones. I find it to be a lot more immersive that way and an overall better experience, without the sound even having to be loud. Just having the sound "surround" me is enough. I also have some friends that I used to chat and play online with, but haven't since my spike, and I do miss being able to do that.

That being said, I would like your opinions on wearing ear plugs under the headphones, which will of course be at a low volume. I just purchased a set of high fidelity musician's plugs, and the headphones I have fit fine over them. I would love to be able to return to some of things I used to be able to do before this T spike, but I obviously want to do so in a safe way. All feedback is appreciated, thanks!

As you've seen in this thread, this is a pretty hot topic and you'll encounter folks arguing passionately both ways

Personally, I don't think headphones are inherently more dangerous than any other source of audio. To your eardrum, a sound wave is a sound wave, it doesn't matter if the sound comes from headphones or a speaker. To me what makes headphones dangerous is that it's so easy to wear them for hours. Your ears adjust to loudness over time, so with headphones, it's easy to use them at a loud enough volume over enough time to cause damage to your hearing. Remember, hearing damage is a product of loudness over time.

Now, as a fellow sufferer of T and H, I understand if you want to stay on the safe side, but I don't think wearing earplugs under your headphones is going to accomplish that. With earplugs, you'll need to crank up the volume in order to hear clearly. I think the net effect would be the same as using your headphones with low volume. I think there's a number of other things you could do instead, like:

• Give your ears 15 minutes of rest for every 1 hour of headphone use. Set a timer to remind you.
• Make sure your volume is low enough. How low? A good rule of thumb is that if you can't hear someone talking next to you, your volume is too loud. Preferably, make sure your room is dead quiet; never ever crank the volume to make up for the loudness of your surroundings.
• I've heard that closed-back headphones might be worse for tinnitus since they don't allow the sound waves to escape. I have absolutely no idea whether that's actually true, and as far as I know, there are no studies that back this up. But if you want to be extra cautious, get yourself a pair of open-back cans. Just keep in mind that this makes the bullet point above even more important, since these cans don't block out sound as much.

Whatever you choose to do, I wish you good luck. I do most of my gaming on my TV with audio through my soundbar, but I don't hesitate to jump on voice-chat for the occasional Destiny 2 or FFXIV raid.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I met with an ENT after my T spike, and he had very similar advice when we talked pretty in depth about how I should continue after NIT. He said to ditch ear buds completely (which is fine because I'm not a fan anyway) and to use headphones at a volume where I can pretty much just hear the sound. I think he referenced physics too in the explanation. He has received great feedback overall from his patients and I honestly really trust him, but at the end of the day he isn't an audiologist

@CroakyBat

I will give you some advice because I believe you are someone that listens. Whether you continue to use headphones or not at a later date is entirely your decision. I would prefer that you don't even at low volume but it's your choice.

ENT doctors are physicians not tinnitus specialists. They treat the Ear, Nose and Throat. If there is an underlying medical condtion causing the tinnitus, they will try and treat it and this is their area of expertise.

Many Hearing Therapists and Audiologists do have some knowledge about tinnitus far more than an ENT doctor. Some of them even have tinnitus. They were either born with it or acquired it at some time in their life. However, whilst they have a certain amount of knowledge about tinnitus and how it can affect a person's mental and emotional wellbeing. A lot of them do not understand very severe tinnitus, like a lot of people experience in this forum and others forums and social medica sites on the Internet.

Tinnitus is a very common condition that comes in many forms and intensities. Most people learn to habituate to it in time. These are the kind of people that Hearing Therapists and Audiologists are familiar with. Most do not know how harmful headphones can be, for some people with Noise Induced Tinnitus.

A woman that I used know a few years ago, was told by her Audiologist to play music through headphones at a low volume, as it would help treat her tinnitus and hyperacusis. This woman phoned me crying because her tinnitus had increased to a severe levels soon after using the headphones.

Take care
Michael

 

[John Mahan]

@CroakyBat

A woman that I used know a few years ago, was told by her Audiologist to play music through headphones at a low volume, as it would help treat her tinnitus and hyperacusis. This woman phoned me crying because her tinnitus had increased to a severe levels soon after using the headphones.

A man I knew stepped on a cat's tail while cutting the lawn and then his lawn mower stopped working.
He determined that stepping on a cat's tail broke his lawnmower. His name was Michael.

 

[MattS]

I once met someone who walked across the street and got hit by a car. And so I don't cross streets anymore.

Very inconvenient, I can only walk in a 1 block circle from my house. But I feel much safer.

I also now talk to everyone I can about the hazards of crossing the street. It's my duty as a cross-the-street missionary.

 

[linearb]

There has to be a reason though that so many on this forum say to throw out headphones entirely - it is very hard for me to just dismiss this.

I can show you another forum full of people who think tinnitus is CIA mind control, and yet another full of people who literally think the earth is flat, in 2019.

"Lots of people believe a thing" is never a good reason to believe a thing -- and it's not even true here. Actually, what we have is a small vocal minority of people who think headphones are The Big Scary.

@PureNoise did a survey recently. There were a lot of people who had continued to use headphones, and a lot of people who had given them up out of concern, but a much smaller number of people who actually thought they'd had any problems as a result. (And, of course, people thinking they have a problem is not the same as people being right about the source of their problem).

Personally, I don't think headphones are inherently more dangerous than any other source of audio.

Congratulations, you understand basic physics and biology at a high school level, which is more than we can say for a lot of people, the education system being what it is these days.

 

[JohnAdams]

My Audiologist believes the ears (brain) should be allowed to rest. Duration of music listening 'independent of volume' is as important as volume according to her.

Independent of volume? Absolutely not.

 

[John Mahan]

Independent of volume? Absolutely not.

She has the degrees and the plaque on the wall. What she does every day. Just like what Michael does everyday on the forum without any degrees. He bashes headphone usage. Just saying. I asked and re-asked the question because I was surprised by a couple of her observations. She said, prolonged listening...don't believe it even related to headphones even at low volumes is worse than shorter listening levels at high volumes. She said duration of listening is a big component. I was pretty shocked she said Ipod set at 7.... 8-10 hours a day was ok.

As many of us believe here, she said headphones themselves have nothing to do with damage to the ears...they are merely a sound source.

What is overlooked here....and Michael puts together simple cause and effect because he isn't exactly considered a deep thinker, the genetic component is big. Some are born with a weak hearing apparatus. It can't take much stress before degrading. It isn't much different than being born with poor eyesight....or eyesight that degrades by aging.

I knew a friend of the family...beautiful girl who was born with perfect eye sight. She went completely blind by the time she was 25. Her sister didn't. She had a very bad manifestation of macular degeneration.

Hearing loss runs in my family. In my family, we all hear perfectly up until the age of 50 or so...then it goes down hill. Genes.
Some people hear well into their 70's and 80's. I have met 75 year olds that never wore glasses...for reading or for distance. I have met people born with tinnitus. I have met a lot of people.


My audiologist Dr....the most acclaimed lady in her field in my town....she said with me, due to high frequency loss, my deficit had nothing to do with headphone listening. She believes something happened within my brain....a virus....a change. I didn't have a definable sound moment for example. I didn't hear a big bang. Weakness to the immune system, likely coupled with genetic weakness of my hearing apparatus. Perfect storm creating hearing loss at high frequency. She said my hearing is pretty perfect at normal listening frequencies. I did not buy the high end hearing aids I tested for example which didn't help me hear better...or notably... or vanquish my tinnitus. I was hoping for more the latter.

So headphones are blamed. It is like blaming the messenger and not the culprit. Headphones merely deliver the sound. The messenger. No different than any sound source. Yes, prolonged listening at high sound levels will degrade hearing. But according to her, prolonged listening even at normal dB levels is bad. Resting the ears is big, again, in her professional opinion.

But the people here with tinnitus and hearing loss, headphones or not, unless they had repeated noise trauma, headphones have nothing to do with it.