My Friends Are Worried About Me and Have Invited Me to a Pub, Should I Go?

[JoyBenz007]

Hey,

My advise to you is that you need to totally change your viewpoint on this.

You cannot live your life clutching onto your decibel-meter, worried that the slightest noise is going to make your T worse. Just be sensible, and wear earplugs if you expect a very loud event, but honestly a busy pub shouldn't ever get to the stage whereby you *need* to leave for fear of damaging your ears, especially if you have plugs in.

ATB

I agree! But it's challenging....

 

[Jomo]

It looks like the people who described their experiences at the link below, followed your advice and lived to regret it. Does this information change the way you feel about this?
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/wearing-foam-ear-plugs-on-a-roller-coaster.22559/#post-259198

Well I have had no issues. i have gone to weddings and i had one instance where the bass was too loud. It did cause me issues and I felt sore inside my ear but my T was fine and never changed. I then went to another wedding recently and had no issues at all but I did tell the my friend to tell the DJ to not have the bass too high (no idea if he did but i was fine). I have had no issues at all. So the key is to use proper judgement and take breaks. Also use the heavy duty 30 db filter if you are using custom musician plugs. I will always note that I stayed away from loud places like this for almost a year so if your in the new stage you may want to just stay away to give your ears a chance to heal but I did ride the subway consistently about a month after my onset with no issues.

 

[Bill Bauer]

people generally don't look at a bunch of photographs that belongs to parallyzed people and get stuck in that misery before they jump

My point is that people who like to jump in that dangerous manner SHOULD be shown those photographs. That way we will have fewer people getting paralyzed.

a bit more than just 'warning' them. Those stories are full of anxiety, horror, doom and gloom.

Someone on the internet saying "don't do it" is not convincing. To me, this forum provides the ability to learn from the mistakes of others. If the other person is new to the forum, or doesn't know how to use the "search" function of this forum, we can help them to uncover experiences that are relevant to their situation.

I am not providing those links to every newcomer here. I am providing those links to people who are either saying they are about to do something they might regret, or to people asking for advice on whether they ought to be doing it. That doom and gloom is what they might have in store for them if they go ahead with their plan.

for an event with a high possibility of doing no harm

Actually, neither you nor I have any idea what the probability of harm is. I think it is high (and if no harm is done, it is possible that the probability of recovery is reduced), you think it is low. The way to test it is to add people to our sample just before they go, and see what happens afterwards. I noticed that that suicidal girl hasn't been back here since the festival. If she were to go and not have any consequences, she would probably let us know.

is no different than staying at home all the time to protect myself from those explosions which literally fucked my brain chemistry probably permanently.

You are right - if the probability of someone like us getting a permanent spike after attending a pub or a music festival while wearing earplugs was to be as low as the probability of winning the lottery or get killed by terrorists, then we ought to ignore that possibility and "live our lives." This is why you prefer not to post those links. But my estimate of that probability is that it is in the 10%-25% range. This is why I choose to post those links. It is all about one's perception of what that probability is.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Well I have had no issues. i have gone to weddings

It seems to me that this might be like playing the Russian roulette. It might be a matter of time before one begins to Have issues.

 

[Jomo]

It seems to me that this might be like playing the Russian roulette. It might be a matter of time before one begins to Have issues.

your entitled to your opinion man..i am getting married this year and am not going to let this dumb condition ruin anything about it. Of course i will make sure the bass isnt heavy and will wear protection but otherwise i am going to enjoy myself. This crap wont defeat me.

 

[Melike]

My point is that people who like to jump in that dangerous manner SHOULD be shown those photographs. That way we will have fewer people getting paralyzed.

I am not sure if you've lived a period of life by just thinking about the WORST that can happen all the time. An innocent warning from others can turn a person's view into paranoia so easily. Especially if that person has a tendency for high levels of anxiety and depression, which I believe is/have been the case for most Tinnitus sufferers at some point. So maybe a healthy warning might include examples from both negative and positive experiences, the possible outcomes can be stated and the rest of this is for that people who asked for advice in the first place.

I noticed that that suicidal girl hasn't been back here since the festival. If she were to go and not have any consequences, she would probably let us know.

If you are talking about Sandra, yes, I am a little worried about her too, although she probably doesn't know me lol.

You are right - if the probability of someone like us getting a permanent spike after attending a pub or a music festival while wearing earplugs was to be as low as the probability of winning the lottery or get killed by terrorists

The biggest LOL. you have absolutely no idea about the probability of getting killed by terrorists in the Middle East. The last 3 terrorist attacks in Istanbul, which happened in a very short time period and caused the death of at least 4o people in each case, occured maximum 1-2 miles away from my house (I live in a pretty central region). They were literally the places I used everyday on my way to school or everynight to get a couple of bears or a cup of coffee with my boyfriend. The art studio that my boyfriend works at is very close to Taksim square, maybe some of them know that place's popularity, so there was also that fear everyday. So, at all hours of the day and night, I lived with a possibility of getting killed/ losing someone in a terrorist attack which was way higher than getting a permanent spike from going to pubs with ear protection. Still, it was stupid and made me total a mess.

. But my estimate of that probability is that it is in the 10%-25% range.

Agree. But still low enough for me to worry that much. At least lower than the probability of getting a permanent /temporary spike from a constant state of anxiety.

 

[Vicki14]

An innocent warning from others can turn a person's view into paranoia so easily.

@Melike - absolutely spot on! You talk a lot of sense lady! Unfortunately, once something like this so scary and real is locked inside my head, it's difficult to remove, sadly x

 

[Melike]

It seems to me that this might be like playing the Russian roulette. It might be a matter of time before one begins to Have issues.

Thats why I am a big fan of the Josef Rauschecker's work and theories. Most people enjoy those loud events, go to weddings, concerts, festivals and cinemas frequently. Some of them earn their livings by playing in loud bands for many years. Some has severe, some has moderate hearing loss and apparently a huge amount of damage to inner ear hair cells. Yet they have no Tinnitus.

Going to pubs, being exposed to the noise of slamming doors or a loud phone ringing shouldn't be enough to such an high damage and give someone a debilitating tinnitus. In my opinion, MOST people have damaged ears to some degree. Having perfectyl,%100 fine hair cells and synapses seems impossible in today's world. Our amazing brain should have a plan to tune out that unpleasent noise since it is not 'normal' for a healthy human being. Our tuning out mechanism is somehow compromised, more research should focus on that point of view. Inner ear hair cell/ribbon synapses degeneration is sure something vitally important, especially for hearing problems. But without the proper reorganization of that neural connections that interferes with the gate keeping mechanism, one small noise exposure (sometimes they are inevitable) can lead to the same consequences again and only way to FULLY protect yourself from this is indeed living like an hermit.

There should be a reason for why I got tinnitus with zero detectable hearing loss and an ability to hear a full spectrum up to 18.000Hz where my boyfriend(a rock singer) with some serious hearing loss can enjoy the total silence.

 

[Bill Bauer]

i am getting married this year

You don't want to see the horror stories I've got about that.

turn a person's view into paranoia so easily.

The fear of scary things is a healthy response that keeps us safe.

you have absolutely no idea about the probability of getting killed by terrorists in the Middle East. The last 3 terrorist attacks in Istanbul, which happened in a very short time period and caused the death of at least 4o people in each case, occured maximum 1-2 miles away from my house (I live in a pretty central region).

That's 120 people. I see that the population of Istanbul is close to 15 million. 120/15000000 is still pretty low.

Having perfectyl,%100 fine hair cells and synapses seems impossible in today's world.

I have never been to any concerts or any places with loud music. I also spent almost no time listening to music using headphones. I think I used to have healthy hair cells...

 

[Bill Bauer]

By the way, just like you found my posts disturbing, I found your posts (where you encourage those people to risk getting a permanent spike) to be disturbing. It had never occurred to me to write to you asking you to stop posting your views, or to modify the way you present those views.

 

[Bill Bauer]

but honestly a busy pub shouldn't ever get to the stage whereby you *need* to leave for fear of damaging your ears, especially if you have plugs in.

Not according to a number of people who posted their horror stories on this forum.

 

[Melike]

That's 120 people. I see that the population of Istanbul is close to 15 million. 120/15000000 is still pretty lo

Are you fucking serious?

I have never been to any concerts or any places with loud music. I also spent almost no time listening to music using headphones. I think I used to have healthy hair cells...

Makes me wonder why you are still freaked about even for the tiniest sound that can harm you, apparently tinnitus can happen without a proper reason. Maybe allowing yourself to enjoy life a little could prevent you from getting it.

The fear of scary things is a healthy response that keeps us safe.

Keep going.

By the way, just like you found my posts disturbing, I found your posts (where you encourage those people to risk getting a permanent spike) to be disturbing. It had never occurred to me to write to you asking you to stop posting your views, or to modify the way you present those views.

I NEVER encouraged someone to do anything. Everybody has the ability to weigh the risks. If you call that encouraging someone to 'risk ' anything, then you are doing pretty much the same by scaring the shit out of them with the worst that can happen. You encourage them to 'risk' their state of psychological well being( which can have more impact on one's perception of tinnitus) by simply indicating that they should avoid social events even with proper protection.

I don't think your posts are disturbing, maybe not healthy I would say. But you if you felt so uncomfortable with the way I look at this issues, you could easily ask me to stop. I'm not a baby.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Are you fucking serious?

I am serious. What is wrong with the reasoning above? Of those 15 million, I bet more than 5 million spend a lot of time in the center of the city, where the next attack will likely take place. 120/5000000 is still a really low probability.

 

[Tinker Bell]

The fear of scary things is a healthy response that keeps us safe.

True, but there is a difference between rational and irrational fears.

There are nearly 30 million people with tinnitus in the U.S. alone. They're not all on this forum. For every post here citing a possible spike, we could probably find thousands of (or even a million) examples of people doing the exact same activity/sound exposure and not having a spike.

 

[Melike]

I am serious. What is wrong with the reasoning above? Of those 15 million, I bet more than 5 million spend a lot of time in the center of the city, where the next attack will likely take place. 120/5000000 is still a really low probability.

Even the way you make the assumption that there 'will' be an attack in the center of the city (where actually some good people we know here die ) based on some calculations, the overly calm state of you of looking at other people dying, makes me sick.

Everything is either black or white. Yes.

Live your life by the stats. I'm done here.

 

[ReyKalinic]

your worries are your tinnitus. go to the pub. enjoy the new life. only you know how to! all the best

 

[Melike]

@Melike - absolutely spot on! You talk a lot of sense lady! Unfortunately, once something like this so scary and real is locked inside my head, it's difficult to remove, sadly x

Oh thanks Vicki ^^ I wish I could put my energy on other things and get a little productive nowadays tho.

And you are absolutely right.

 

[Vicki14]

I wish I could put my energy on other things and get a little productive nowadays tho.

@Melike - me too! Tinnitus takes up way too much headspace for my liking! Hard not to be consumed by something so overwhelming! x

 

[Bill Bauer]

For every post here citing a possible spike, we could probably find thousands of (or even a million) examples of people doing the exact same activity/sound exposure and not having a spike.

You think that the probability of having a spike is small. I think it is over 10%. We can't know the true one way or the other.

Even the way you make the assumption that there 'will' be an attack in the center of the city (where actually some good people we know here die ) based on some calculations, the overly calm state of you of looking at other people dying, makes me sick.

Guess how they set the speed limit. They know that the higher the speed limit, the more people will die in car crashes (the cost). They also know that the higher the speed limit, the faster we can transport goods and the more money we will save (the benefit). They then compare the cost (lives lost if the speed limit were to be increased) and the benefit (savings), and make their decision. If the cost were to be say 1 life per day, and the benefit were to be a billion dollars, and someone like you were to say "a life is precious, let us not use logic and just save the life", then that would lead to more lives being lost. To see that - the billion dollars would have been taxed. Say this is 100 million dollars in tax revenue. That revenue could have saved more than 1 life per day.

The bottom line is that when lives are concerned, unless you are not using stats and logic (in other words, unless you Think (as opposed to Feel)), you are not minimizing the number of lives lost. So if you don't see that, then you are right, we have nothing to talk about.

 

[Jomo]

@Bill Bauer

I just gave you examples of what I have done and how I have had no reaction or spikes...i understand that people have had some bad stories but I also have an uncle (who has had it for over 30 years) and a friend (had it all her life) who have T and they dont even wear ear protection. They go to weddings and parties with absolutely nothing. Not to jinx myself but if anything my T appears to be less intrusive lately..I am barely noticing it most of the time...i never had this before...of course i keep some sound on around me but i was running around all weekend and wasnt reminded of my T at all. There is always going to be some risk but you cant let that control your life. I swear even by exposing myself to everyday noise i may have some uncomfort but it seems that all of this is helping me become less sensitive.

 

[orbiter12]

this post has generated a lot of attention so ill give everyone an update.

The pub was full to the brim with peolle Laughing talking shouting. I asked my friends to sit out the back which was still very very busy. I had foam plugs in so felt at ease about the noise. I was really enjoying the night with my friends which has been long overdue.

Then some girl came over with a balloon and it popped about a meter away from me. Thank god I had them 27db plugs in @Michael Leigh told me not to bother with otherwise I would be in a very bad way now. I believe I've had a spikr from the balloon but nothing major.

To add to your advice @Michael Leigh I had my appointment to see an ENT through the NHS after 4 months of waiting. After everything thats happened to me (girlfriend cheated and left me after 2 happy years together prior to T) I broke down infront of him. He prescribed me amitriptyline and citolopram - which I havent taken as ive read stories of them causing t or permanent spikes. I definitely need an antidepressant but idk which are safe for me, can you shed some light.

He also booked me in to see a hearing therapist "urgently" and is writing to my GP to get me CBT "urgently"

I will most likely be going to the pub again, but my 27db wont leave my ears if its a Saturday night.

 

[TuneOut]

@orbiter12

Did you enjoy the experience at the pub?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hi @orbiter12

You have chosen to highlight in this thread and for everyone else to read, that my advice not to wear foam earplugs to the pub was wrong. I standby what I have said, that I do not believe it is a good idea to wear foam earplugs to go out socially. However, I have a more relaxed opinion on the use of "noise reducing earplugs" that have built in filters if one feels noise levels might become loud. Even then I advise they shouldn't be used too often as the auditory system can become hypersensitive.

I understand that you are under a lot of stress at the moment and have always been polite and well mannered towards me, which is the only reason I have continued to try to help you when you have posted a request for help; either in the forum or sent me a private message on many occasions. Therefore, on this occasion I will overlook what you have said but politely ask, please do not do this again as I see it as impolite and quite rude especially when I am trying to help you. I don't know everything about tinnitus and I'm not too proud to admit that I am wrong or made a mistake when advising someone. Please remember, it is always best to try and be polite when corresponding with someone or people in writing.

In future, if you choose to go to a pub or other venue where you believe the noise levels are going to be high, then you do so at your own risk. The best earplugs in the world will not stop noise levels being transferred to the inner ear by bone conduction so it is up to you to take care of your ears and auditory system. You have asked me to "shed some light" on an antidepressant that might be suitable or safe for you to take without making your tinnitus worse. This is something that I will not do. I advise you to follow the advice of your ENT doctor who is your Healthcare Professional and take the medication prescribed – you cannot have two masters. Not all medications will make tinnitus worse. My blood pressure medicine is listed as "can cause ringing" in the ears and hasn't made my tinnitus worse.

In previous posts I have mentioned that most ENT doctors prefer to see a tinnitus patient at around 6 months and there is very good reason for this: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-to-tinnitus-what-to-do.12558/ providing they have ordinary tinnitus without additional symptoms such as: dizziness, pain in the ears, balance problems or deafness. You will get the best help and long term aftercare under the NHS. No private practice can compete with the NHS for tinnitus treatment in the UK.

I wish you well.
Michael

 

[orbiter12]

Hi @orbiter12

You have chosen to highlight in this thread and for everyone else to read, that my advice not to wear foam earplugs to the pub was wrong. I standby what I have said, that I do not believe it is a good idea to wear foam earplugs to go out socially. However, I have a more relaxed opinion on the use of "noise reducing earplugs" that have built in filters if one feels noise levels might become loud. Even then I advise they shouldn't be used too often as the auditory system can become hypersensitive.

I understand that you are under a lot of stress at the moment and have always been polite and well mannered towards me, which is the only reason I have continued to try to help you when you have posted a request for help; either in the forum or sent me a private message on many occasions. Therefore, on this occasion I will overlook what you have said but politely ask, please do not do this again as I see it as impolite and quite rude especially when I am trying to help you. I don't know everything about tinnitus and I'm not too proud to admit that I am wrong or made a mistake when advising someone. Please remember, it is always best to try and be polite when corresponding with someone or people in writing.

In future, if you choose to go to a pub or other venue where you believe the noise levels are going to be high, then you do so at your own risk. The best earplugs in the world will not stop noise levels being transferred to the inner ear by bone conduction so it is up to you to take care of your ears and auditory system. You have asked me to "shed some light" on an antidepressant that might be suitable or safe for you to take without making your tinnitus worse. This is something that I will not do. I advise you to follow the advice of your ENT doctor who is your Healthcare Professional and take the medication prescribed – you cannot have two masters. Not all medications will make tinnitus worse. My blood pressure medicine is listed as "can cause ringing" in the ears and hasn't made my tinnitus worse.

In previous posts I have mentioned that most ENT doctors prefer to see a tinnitus patient at around 6 months and there is very good reason for this: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-to-tinnitus-what-to-do.12558/ providing they have ordinary tinnitus without additional symptoms such as: dizziness, pain in the ears, balance problems or deafness. You will get the best help and long term aftercare under the NHS. No private practice can compete with the NHS for tinnitus treatment in the UK.

I wish you well.
Michael

Sorry Micheal,

I did not mean any offence although it might have came across like that - I respect the help you have given me and other's in this forum.

I was just trying to say that without the plus my T would be a lot worse due to the balloon popping. i wear plugs mostly for that problem, unexpected loud noises.

It helps me feel at ease and relax more in social interactions.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Sorry Micheal,
I did not mean any offence although it might have came across like that - I respect the help you have given me and other's in this forum.

Hi Ryan,
I accept your apology and as I've said you have always been polite and well mannered and this is the reason I have tried to help whenever you have requested it. I am considerably older than you at a mere 57 years of age. I look a lot younger so people tell me..lol. Respect, manners and decency means a lot to me because these values help to make a man and a woman and carry us through life. I will now get off my soap box.

Hope you start to feel better soon.
All the best
Michael

 

[orbiter12]

@Michael Leigh You said that some times plugs aren't enough due to bone conduction. At what point are plugs not enough?

Id never go to a festival or club again but could bars even be too dangerous even with plugs?

 

[Michael Leigh]

@orbiter12
One has to try and judge the enviornment they are in to determine if external sound is too loud. A good rule of thumb is this so I'm told: If you have to raise your voice so someone next to you can hear then the surrounding sound is too noisy. Saying that, low bass frequencies can be transfered up through the body into the auditory system. Therefore, it would be unwise to stand next to a speaker the size of a waldrobe all night and not expect it to bother you.

Put simply, when someone has noise induced tinnitus this doesn't mean they can't go out and have a good time. However, it does mean they should be careful of the type of venues they go to and how often. Prudence should always be excercised. Whether you go to a festival, concert, club or house party. If the sound levels are too high (even with earplugs) it could affect your tinnitus. In my post: Hyperacusis, As I see it. I went onto the Brighton Pier and into the arcade. Music was playing and my decibel meter read 100db. I stayed there for 30mins. My tinnitus wasn't affected and I had no symptomes of hyperacusis. There is no hard and fast rule, one just has to be careful and listen to their body.

Go out and have a good time but also be sensible. This doesn't mean to be afraid or become paranoid over tinnitus and sound, like some people who talk about wearing: earmuffs, earplugs, moulded earplugs and disabling airbags in cars. This isn't living a life, this is allowing tinnitus to rule and becoming an obession and it's not healthy.

Michael

 

[JurgenG]

In my post: Hyperacusis, As I see it. I went onto the Brighton Pier and into the arcade. Music was playing and my decibel meter read 100db. I stayed there for 30mins. My tinnitus wasn't affected and I had no symptomes of hyperacusis. There is no hard and fast rule, one just has to be careful and listen to their body.
Michael

You went without earplugs as a test, right?

 

[Michael Leigh]

You went without earplugs as a test, right?

Yes I went there as a test. I had noise reducing earplugs but didn't need them.

 

[JurgenG]

Yes I went there as a test. I had noise reducing earplugs but didn't need them.

Good to hear that the ear builds tolerance after a while.
I guess I will need at least another year to do anything remotely like that. (Not that I'll ever not use earplugs)
Since I already had a spike after 3 hours max 75 dB.