My Tinnitus Might Have Been Caused by the Tympanometry Test

[Emperor-Drax]

Right now, it's quiet, just some birds chirping outside... and my T is completely absent. It's amazing. And I'm looking for it too. But it'll come back in a few minutes.

 

[GregCA]

So this site really struggles with that concept of "extents" .... a short burst of 115 dB does not cause hearing loss. If you have 40 million hairs in your ear (random number) and you lose 2 hairs... have you done damage? Yes. Have you done actual damage? No.

Not that I disagree with the point you are making, but you'd be surprised (like I was) to learn how few cochlear hair cells we have:
"The human cochlea contains on the order of 3,500inner hair cells and 12,000 outer hair cells at birth."
(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_cell )

It's not that many actually... we could count them all one by one in a single day!
Before I got educated on the actual amount, I too was off by several orders of magnitude (fooled by other organs in our bodies).

 

[kelpiemsp]

Not that I disagree with the point you are making, but you'd be surprised (like I was) to learn how few cochlear hair cells we have:
"The human cochlea contains on the order of 3,500inner hair cells and 12,000 outer hair cells at birth."
(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_cell )

It's not that many actually... we could count them all one by one in a single day!
Before I got educated on the actual amount, I too was off by several orders of magnitude (fooled by other organs in our bodies).

Dang. I hoped it was like brain cells and booze!

 

[Bill Bauer]

have you done damage? Yes. Have you done actual damage? No.

Have you done enough damage to cause life-changing T? Maybe...

 

[Bill Bauer]

Right now, it's quiet, just some birds chirping outside... and my T is completely absent. It's amazing. And I'm looking for it too. But it'll come back in a few minutes.

My guess is that you are going to heal, and it will most likely happen before your appointment in October.

 

[Emperor-Drax]

My guess is that you are going to heal, and it will most likely happen before your appointment in October.

If it does, I'll buy you any drink of your choice!

I wonder if the Ginkgo tablets I'm taking have anything to do with it?

 

[Bill Bauer]

If it does, I'll buy you any drink of your choice!

I used to enjoy cream liquor (e.g., Advocate liquor) (and that is the only type of alcoholic beverage that I like), but then I discovered that it seems to spike my T...

I wonder if the Ginkgo tablets I'm taking have anything to do with it?

Keep doing what you have been doing (and not doing what you have not been doing), as it seems to be working.

 

[Gman]

Whether it's microsuction, tympanometry, or LDL testing or MRIs, audiologists and ENTs did nothing but worsen my issues. They certainly worsened my hyperacusis and terrible tensor tympani problems.
For suspected acoustic trauma or acoustic shock disorder (whatever you want to call it), these tests should not be done!

It's not necessarily hair cell damage they cause (although this can't be ruled out), but they can compound other problems and they do not care.

These can in turn make tinnitus worse, whether temporarily, an extended duration or permanently. I wish I had known more before I sought "professional" help. My fault for not having a medical degree prior to getting these conditions.

 

[dpdx]

You think or you know for certain? Did you ask the doctor?

Most information I have read states VEMP tests are under 100dB. Obviously 100dB is loud, but given how decibels work that is much lower than 115dB.

Still loud enough to cause damage.

 

[dpdx]

Whether it's microsuction, tympanometry, or LDL testing or MRIs, audiologists and ENTs did nothing but worsen my issues. They certainly worsened my hyperacusis and terrible tensor tympani problems.
For suspected acoustic trauma or acoustic shock disorder (whatever you want to call it), these tests should not be done!

It's not necessarily hair cell damage they cause (although this can't be ruled out), but they can compound other problems and they do not care.

These can in turn make tinnitus worse, whether temporarily, an extended duration or permanently. I wish I had known more before I sought "professional" help. My fault for not having a medical degree prior to getting these conditions.

I am sure they know that they can cause tinnitus to be worse. THey just dont care...they are there for their big fat check, they dont care about your life or your well being, if they make it worse they will just say oh go do TRT. Like I was told. When I had MILD T they were all over me trying to make me do ear tests and telling me to do TRT. After it increased (they got their wish) they then asked me if I have enough money for TRT, that might help me get back on track to where I was. its sick completely.....ENTS are sick people.

 

[Bill Bauer]

THey just dont care...they are there for their big fat check

They wouldn't want to expose themselves to a lawsuit...

 

[dpdx]

They wouldn't want to expose themselves to a lawsuit...

Look man if you have a patient who broke their leg you wouldnt tell them to go running with it or doing something that will not allow it to hear properly. Audiologists/ENTs need to use their minds a little bit, inserting 115db sound into an ear of a person who has hearing damage is not a good idea, its really common sense hell you dont even need any degree for that.

 

[Gman]

Look man if you have a patient who broke their leg you wouldnt tell them to go running with it or doing something that will not allow it to hear properly. Audiologists/ENTs need to use their minds a little bit, inserting 115db sound into an ear of a person who has hearing damage is not a good idea, its really common sense hell you dont even need any degree for that.

This is absolutely true. Couldn't agree more. They're covered with medical insurance so good luck to anyone trying to sue them. You would need deep pockets and a great lawyer to try and prove they caused or worsened a mostly subjective condition. Stupid nitwits. I can't express how much I loathe these morons.

 

[CricketEars]

From what I understand and have experience, T and hearing loss can take a while to show up after trauma (delayed). Perhaps that's what happened? But who knows, the medical system is pretty messed up these days imo

 

[Red]

Should I just cancel my ENT appointment? It's not until October anyway.

What are you being seen for? I had an ENT appointment and while it wasn't awful and my doctor was nice I definitely wouldn't consider it worth the copay.

 

[Red]

Good point. Thank you.

What I had wasn't your usual acoustic trauma. A sonic toothbrush came into contact with the opening of my ear canal for a fraction of a second... It is such a bizarre thing to have happened, that I am not sure whether it is more likely that it was the cause of my T or whether it was the tympanometry test.

When I heard that you got your tinnitus from a toothbrush, I always thought it was strange and considered it "not the real reason Bill Bauer has tinnitus." Battery powered toothbrushes aren't that loud unless you managed to buy one that was really do noisy? Although, since hearing damage builds up over time it is likely that you were exposed to something that you just don't remember.

For example, two years before I developed tinnitus I was in a car crash where an airbag was deployed. So I have no doubt that while it didn't directly caused it that it must have played a big part.

Your case does seem very strange. An electronic toothbrush very briefly entering your ear canal shouldn't deal enough damage to cause tinnitus. I would honestly be more suspectful of the test but tinnitus seems to develop several days after the incident.

 

[Bill Bauer]

When I heard that you got your tinnitus from a toothbrush, I always thought it was strange and considered it "not the real reason Bill Bauer has tinnitus." Battery powered toothbrushes aren't that loud unless you managed to buy one that was really do noisy?

The brush came into contact with the opening of my ear canal (as opposed to my mouth).

An electronic toothbrush very briefly entering your ear canal shouldn't deal enough damage to cause tinnitus.

It immediately caused ear fullness that took months to completely resolve.

During those first days, I performed that Valsalva maneuver, so that might have been the cause...

 

[dpdx]

The brush came into contact with the opening of my ear canal (as opposed to my mouth).

It immediately caused ear fullness that took months to completely resolve.

During those first days, I performed that Valsalva maneuver, so that might have been the cause...

Stuff is not supposed to go into the ears. I think the toothbrush and tympanometry caused your T.

 

[GregCA]

During those first days, I performed that Valsalva maneuver, so that might have been the cause...

I also did a lot of Valsalva maneuvers before T showed up. I think it's pretty common to do that when your ears feel clogged, as you feel it's a tool that you may be able to use to unclog your ear, but I wonder if that can be particularly damaging to the middle ear/cochlea interface.
Perhaps that's one reason why my otosclerosis is so "unheard of" (no pun intended).

 

[Bill Bauer]

I also did a lot of Valsalva maneuvers before T showed up.

For how many days had you been doing it?

 

[Bill Bauer]

I think the toothbrush and tympanometry caused your T.

 

[GregCA]

For how many days had you been doing it?

A bit over a month!

 

[Bill Bauer]

A bit over a month!

 

[cspc]

@Bill Bauer You had ear fullness after your acoustic trauma which already caused increased pressure in your ear + tympanometry ( ~75 db) = in your ear the sound was around 85 - 90 db due to the increased pressure in your ear. I think it's possible for tympanometry to cause an acoustic trauma if you have an acoustic trauma or ear pressure issues. It happened to me to get an acoustic trauma after the tympanometry test trice (in March, in April and in July) because I already had increased ear pressure in my ears (the most on the ear that had the most acoustic traumas). Any sound > 85 db can cause an acoustic trauma if you have ear pressure issues.

 

[cspc]

I also did a lot of Valsalva maneuvers before T showed up. I think it's pretty common to do that when your ears feel clogged, as you feel it's a tool that you may be able to use to unclog your ear, but I wonder if that can be particularly damaging to the middle ear/cochlea interface.
Perhaps that's one reason why my otosclerosis is so "unheard of" (no pun intended).

The problem is that even ents and doctors advise you to do the valsalva maneuver to "open" your ears. I did it too for some days to "open" my ears.

 

[cspc]

A bit over a month!

I think ents should better start reading research. Found this on valsalva and it seems it is likely your cause: https://books.google.com.cy/books?i...page&q=valsalva maneuver otosclerosis&f=false

 

[Tinker Bell]

@Bill Bauer You had ear fullness after your acoustic trauma which already caused increased pressure in your ear + tympanometry ( ~75 db) = in your ear the sound was around 85 - 90 db due to the increased pressure in your ear. I think it's possible for tympanometry to cause an acoustic trauma if you have an acoustic trauma or ear pressure issues. It happened to me to get an acoustic trauma after the tympanometry test trice (in March, in April and in July) because I already had increased ear pressure in my ears (the most on the ear that had the most acoustic traumas). Any sound > 85 db can cause an acoustic trauma if you have ear pressure issues.

Why would increased ear pressure increase sounds by 10 to 15dB? That is a significant increase given how decibels actually work, something akin to 10 times louder.

If increased pressure is proven to make sounds 10-15dB louder than we have likely uncovered the cause of hyperacusis for many people.

Do you have a link? I would like to read more on this; especially since most people I know with ear pressure actually had muted hearing.

 

[GregCA]

I think ents should better start reading research. Found this on valsalva and it seems it is likely your cause: https://books.google.com.cy/books?i...page&q=valsalva maneuver otosclerosis&f=false

I was doing Valsalva before my stapedotomy, not after, so there was no chance of lifting the piston out of place at that point (but perhaps there was a chance of other damage).

 

[Bill Bauer]

tympanometry ( ~75 db) = in your ear

That's the thing, all of the sounds that I remember being exposed to during the test were very quiet. I have no idea how to explain any of it.

It happened to me to get an acoustic trauma after the tympanometry test trice (in March, in April and in July)

How loud did tympanometry test seem to you?

The problem is that even ents and doctors advise you to do the valsalva maneuver to "open" your ears. I did it too for some days to "open" my ears.

Same here!

 

[cspc]

That's the thing, all of the sounds that I remember being exposed to during the test were very quiet. I have no idea how to explain any of it.

How loud did tympanometry test seem to you?

Same here!

The tympanometry was loud (I read somewhere that the tympanometer emits sounds 85db max) but it wasn't too loud. The other tympanometries I did after this one where a bit louder but I guess it was due to the increased pressure in my ears. The night after the tympanograms and the audiograms I could hear various sounds from the tests which suggests that a little damage was done during them but it was due to the increased ear pressure. So far no ent can explain what causes the increased ear pressure. I went to 4. The first told it was TMJ. The second told it was an acoustic trauma. The last 2 told me that I had something wrong structurally with my ETs but nothing wrong was found in the CT scan.

I suspect that I have some kind of eustachian tube problem where my eustachian tube stays closed when it shouldn't and sometimes it stays open when it shouldn't (I guess it's due to allergies, previous infections that I had such as otitis and tonsillitis and colds, it can be from weight loss (I lost 16 kg in a year), worsening of my tmj because I had been chewing gum, eating pork chops, nuts and accidentaly chewing on hard food pieces without knowing, also it can be from my female hormones that are a little crazy this year.

From February, I have a weird recurrent pharyngitis and tonsillitis which radiates to my ears.