My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

[Hudson]

@Luca,

Please be respectful of the poster who is trying the treatment. He has been kind enough to share and journal his experiences with us to further our knowledge base and understanding. If it doesn't work for him, it will be unfortunate, but you will feel vindicated. If it does work for him, then you can feel better knowing that there may be treatments available for tinnitus sufferers. Nothing in the medical profession would get fixed if people weren't willing to try new things. If you wish to create a thread regarding your opinions surrounding LLLT therapy and have a discussion of its merits, that is fine. This thread regarding @attheedgeofscience should be reserved for discussions about how the treatment is going for this member and what experiences he wishes to share with us.

 

[click]

I'd believe it. Almost anyone I know who has had it "go away" has literally just avoided any sort of sound that even might cause their ears to get a little annoyed.

We get the impression from posts online that, although many people have 'habituated' so that they're not constantly anxious/listening to their T/are able to ignore it for extended periods etc., very few have 'got rid of tinnitus completely'.

This impression could be inaccurate because many people who got rid of it probably haven't posted anything online.

I don't think anyone can know for sure the true statistics.

So... doing something that is not necessarily recommended (like wearing earplugs all the time & giving our ears a rest in the hope that this will 'heal' them) may be risky but may actually work. We just don't know. What we do know is that, although most of us have 'improved' & 'adjusted' etc., not very many of the 'recommended' things are really working to get rid of T completely, otherwise we wouldn't still be here

@Louise - I remember from ages ago that you wore earplugs & people on the forum were telling you that perhaps it wasn't such a good idea. I'd like to hear what you think about this theory of avoiding sound & thus resting your ears to heal them.

This theory interests me more than most because my T disappears completely a great deal. I'm lucky enough to be able to run my company from home (video conferencing is a wonderful thing ) & am able to avoid a great deal of external noise that many people have to endure. Could my T go away because my ears are healing, albeit slowly...?

 

[EddyLee]

We get the impression from posts online that, although many people have 'habituated' so that they're not constantly anxious/listening to their T/are able to ignore it for extended periods etc., very few have 'got rid of tinnitus completely'.

After i got tinnitus, i started to ask around and found several people that has totally god rid of their tinnitus but they never posted their condition online. So i believe there are indeed more success stories out there.
One of them told me his tinnitus disappeared shortly after he changed job
Another by acupuncture and the rest their tinnitus simply disappeared.

 

[Dhaval]

After i got tinnitus, i started to ask around and found several people that has totally god rid of their tinnitus but they never posted their condition online. So i believe there are indeed more success stories out there.
One of them told me his tinnitus disappeared shortly after he changed job
Another by acupuncture and the rest their tinnitus simply disappeared.

great to hear that actually that gives me quite a bit of hope. can you tell us how long it took, how they got their T, etc. It will help a lot of people here i am sure

cheers

 

[Vkis]

if it will help many of us will stend with 20k$ the next day by their door

 

[EddyLee]

great to hear that actually that gives me quite a bit of hope. can you tell us how long it took, how they got their T, etc. It will help a lot of people here i am sure

cheers

Hi Dhaval, i understand how you feel, i feel the same too when i heard of their story. We must have faith and hope!
One of them got T when he go down from a hill after spending a night there. The others are all of unknown cause. This actually lead me to believe that idiopathic T has higher chance to disappear than T with obvious cause like acoustic trauma.

 

[Dhaval]

@Vkis

Ouch!!.....I meant it will give them hope and serve as anecdotal reference in the doom and gloom of t

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@attheedgeofscience,

I have a couple questions because I think the answers will be relevant to your treatment journey as it occurs. You have said before that you have some slight hearing loss at high frequencies, but I think from what I have gathered that is what you have said.

1. What is your tinnitus like? Is it high pitched, a buzzing, ringing, or roaring? Are there multiple tones? Does it wax or wane through time or is it constant?
2. Do you have sound sensitivity (Hyperacusis)? Do your ear(s) ever react to sounds, such as your ear drum tightening up or fluttering due to stimulation?
3. Do you have pain in your ear(s)? If so, is it constant or intermittent?
4. Do you have a feeling of fullness in your ears, such as the need to pop them frequently?

I ask these questions because now may be a good time to get a baseline of multiple factors so that you can accurately assess the outcome of your treatment. I am assuming this has been done or is being done at the clinic (hopefully periodically throughout your treatment). I know I may be asking some specifics, but a back story may help others decide in the future if their symptoms are like yours, compare it to your outcome, and what options they may have. I appreciate it!

The most important point to decide on before attempting the kinds of treatments I have described in my journal and elsewhere, is whether the tinnitus is inner ear related or related to some other factor (the inner ear includes also the auditory nerve). My answers to your questions will not really serve anyone, I am afraid.

1. I have a faint cyclic noise which I can almost always hear - regardless of how much noise there is around me (very strange as the noise is really quite faint - this doesn't bother me, however). In April, I developed a whine kind of tinnitus (this noise is easily drowned by the noise from a computer fan, but when completely quiet it is slightly more annoying, but I have no problems falling asleep, for example). When I lie down (for sleeping), I develop yet another kind of tinnitus noise which also is very faint (and which I have had much longer than since April).
2. No.
3. No.
4. I have had fullness in my ears for some time; the tests that the clinic have just run on me point out that I have a high level of inflammation in my body, as well as high chlolesterol even though I am extremely fit (so it is genetic). The fullness has dissappeared since I started laser therapy with dr. Wilden.

As far as I know, my faint tinnitus sound started some time after a course of antibiotics. But, as the tinnitus wasn't tonal, I did not recognize it as tinnitus...

 

[inadmin]

Hi Dhaval, i understand how you feel, i feel the same too when i heard of their story. We must have faith and hope!
One of them got T when he go down from a hill after spending a night there. The others are all of unknown cause. This actually lead me to believe that idiopathic T has higher chance to disappear than T with obvious cause like acoustic trauma.

How long it took for them to get rid of the T?

 

[Luca]

Nothing in the medical profession would get fixed if people weren't willing to try new things.

It's about the way in which you try them. I have outlined the legitimate scientific approach to this earlier. #31

Please be respectful of the poster who is trying the treatment.

I don't see how I have been disrespectful. I think it should be allowed to be sceptical if not even promoted.

If you wish to create a thread regarding your opinions surrounding LLLT therapy and have a discussion of its merits, that is fine.

No thanks. Pointless. This would only create further awareness and might lure people towards it.

If it does work for him

heh. It will. That is how these voodoo science operations roll! Get real! I mean Burzynski is still going with his cancer treatment since the effin 70s.

It takes years and millions of dollars in damages for folks to wise up.

 

[Molan]

Luca what is your purpose for joining Tinnitus talk? You only started posting here immediatlely after theedgeofscience made his very first journal entry on sunday.

He has already started his treatment so what is the point of your rather strange tone of posts? What do you hope to achieve? If you cannot be supportive or contribute positively why even bother? What you post will not change anything.

You have been disrespectfull because of your tone of comments. Yes we know you don't approve but to keep on and on like this is bizaare to say the least. The fact you are not interested in creating a seperate thread but keep commenting on this one dosen't really make sense unless you enjoy being a disruptive troll perhaps?

 

[Luca]

what is the point of your rather strange tone of posts?

Explain how real trials work and to help people make an informed choice whether or not they want to invest 20 thousand dollars in experimental treatment and jeopardize their health unnecessarily.

why even bother?

Good question. Im out.

 

[Molan]

Well I'm afraid Lucas you did a rather poor job at explaining things as the 'real trials' you spoke of have given us many medications which in fact killed people and severely poisoned them before they were eventually withdrawn. Your objective knowledge of LLLT was also found to be lacking to put it mildly. As for Burzingski it's funny you mention him as in 2008 the FDA's own supervised clinical trial data for anaplastic astrocytoma patients (Brain tumours) found that Burzingski's antineoplastins were more effective then Chemotherapy and radiation in a 2005 study but without any side effects.

http://www.burzynskiclinic.com/images/stories/Publications/7853.pdf

Perhaps it is best that you have decided to leave as your tone was extremly rude and disrespectfull to attheageofscience. Unlike other forums such as Yuku here at Tinnitus talk we prefer to treat each other with kindness and respect even if we do not agree upon a subject.

 

[RaZaH]

I got a message from theedgeofscience where he advised me to hold on for a bit longer.
I am going to try and wait for a bit and unless he gets no results at all I am going.
Yesterday I went to a chiropractor and a reflexologist/craniosacrialtherapist as well as acupuncture.
I feel better today , no idea which of these three helped or if its a coincidence?

I have tried everything.....next up , Bangkok.

 

[Dhaval]

I got a message from theedgeofscience where he advised me to hold on for a bit longer.
I am going to try and wait for a bit and unless he gets no results at all I am going.
Yesterday I went to a chiropractor and a reflexologist/craniosacrialtherapist as well as acupuncture.
I feel better today , no idea which of these three helped or if its a coincidence?

I have tried everything.....next up , Bangkok.

@attheedgeofscience is probably right in saying that. May be you should hold off for atleast a week or 2 to see how it goes with him.

@attheedgeofscience by the way great photos. Looks out of this world. Any way I was wondering how they'd administer laser therapy iv. But there you go. Any photos on how iv oxygen is given. Oh and hey how are you feeling. Hopefully the steroids are not making you manic. Any change in your t. I hope you heal soon and come back leaving your t in Bangkok

Cheers

 

[frohike]

That bio scan machine seems to be the "Orion Bio Scan" http://www.orionbioscan.com/
It's criticized here: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/electro.html
In the US there is no bioresonance device approved by the FDA.

The machine seems to present a picture of an internal organ and then shows several colors (see http://www.orionbioscan.com/overview.doc) stating the health of that point. See it in action

As you see in the picture it shows some colors following the path of veins in the brain (?). Same thing for other organs. It wants to give the impression that they acquired the topology of the organs (as an MRI machine would) and they are rating the health of each part of it. But obviously they are not (how could they?).

As a common sense critic, if this even remotely works, it would be the cheapest thing to do to bio-scan hospital patients and compare the results with any other approved diagnostic device. Bioresonance had been going on for 30 years, where is the science to back it? what's the point of building a machine with no science at all behind it?

This is a presentation explaining how this bioscan technology works:

Lots of red lights, eg: diagnosis by biophotons, this is an example of mixing science with mumbo jumbo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophoton#Quantum_medicine I'm just a guy using Google but this technology seems pseudoscience to me.

 

[gary]

I might be wrong about this but I don't think Dr. Wilden works at the clinic where Dana got his treatment, you might be thinking of Dr. Peter Wehling (http://www.wehling-hartmann.de).

Yes Yonkapin you are correct. Thank you for the correction. T has been been pretty high the last ten days, I just remembered it was in Dr. in Germany who's name started with a "W"
When my T is at a 10 (on a 1 to 10 scale) like it has been for the last eleven days I should proof read my replies better.

 

[frohike]

3. If there is an area of injury, then the stem cells travel there by using the peptide homing signals.

I´m curious about this peptide guiding signal. After some googling I found the following:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/ja400636d

Since stem cells emerged as a new generation of medicine, there are increasing efforts to deliver stem cells to a target tissue via intravascular injection. However, the therapeutic stem cells lack the capacity to detect and adhere to the target tissue. Therefore, this study presents synthesis of a bioactive hyperbranched polyglycerol (HPG) that can noninvasively associate with stem cells and further guide them to target sites, such as inflamed endothelium. The overall process is analogous to the way in which leukocytes are mobilized to the injured endothelium.

Stem and progenitor cells are being extensively studied as a new generation of medical therapy because of their ability to produce therapeutic proteins and recreate new tissues sustainably. One popular cell transplantation strategy is to inject cells into the circulatory system. However, this approach often encounters difficulties in recruiting transplanted cells to the target tissue because therapeutic cells, such as mesenchymal stem cells, lack the capability to bind with the target tissue. According to fundamental studies, leukocytes are mobilized to injured or pathologic tissues because they express transmembrane receptors that can specifically bind with proteins overexpressed by the tissue. To mimic the function of leukocytes, efforts are increasingly being made to modify the therapeutic cell surface with peptides or antibodies that can associate with proteins overexpressed in target tissues.

This study doesn't explain this particular treatment, but it´s a case of using peptides to guide stem cells to a certain area. The study was published in 2013, and it´s an in vitro (= not on a living organism) study. Here is an article targeted at the general public: http://cen.acs.org/articles/91/web/2013/04/Putting-Stem-Cells-Place.html

 

[Champ]

I´m curious about this peptide guiding signal. After some googling I found the following:

This study doesn't explain this particular treatment, but it´s a case of using peptides to guide stem cells to a certain area. The study was published in 2013, and it´s an in vitro (= not on a living organism) study. Here is an article targeted at the general public: http://cen.acs.org/articles/91/web/2013/04/Putting-Stem-Cells-Place.html

Good research man. It seems like this procedure has both some sound science and not at the same time : )

I'd like to see the source code for this program and how it interacts with the diagnostics. That would give us an idea of what it's doing.

 

[Jade]

@attheedgeofscience,
Absolutely astonishing, I am loving reading your journal entries and seeing your photos. I am pinning for your success! How exciting, have a wonderful day.

Jade

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@attheedgeofscience is probably right in saying that. May be you should hold off for atleast a week or 2 to see how it goes with him.

@attheedgeofscience by the way great photos. Looks out of this world. Any way I was wondering how they'd administer laser therapy iv. But there you go. Any photos on how iv oxygen is given. Oh and hey how are you feeling. Hopefully the steroids are not making you manic. Any change in your t. I hope you heal soon and come back leaving your t in Bangkok

Cheers

I can post pictures of IV oxygen therapy, but it looks similar to the IV laser therapy (except that there is no "color" involved). Only side effect from the steroids (isotonic sodium chloride) this time is insomnia (first night). I would not except results to come too soon - first chance would be in 3-4 weeks from now...

 

[Dhaval]

I can post pictures of IV oxygen therapy, but it looks similar to the IV laser therapy (except that there is no "color" involved). Only side effect from the steroids (isotonic sodium chloride) this time is insomnia (first night). I would not except results to come too soon - first chance would be in 3-4 weeks from now...

Great!! Thanks. Please do take care if your self. Any ideas on how the docs hope this will progress (I am guessing they'd have some idea from the 1 treatment they're done). Have they informed you on what to expect in terms of hearing changes. Volume changes in t. Have they asked you to avoid foods or supplements and so on. I'd say have plenty of fruits especially berries. And almonds and coconut water. I am saying this cause the brain is 1 big energy hogger. For this you'd need an ample raw material to make ATP. Which needs DHA and few other materials. So eat healthy and make sure your liver is at peak. That's where all the fancy chemistry happens.

Take care and we're routing for you....full speed ahead chekov

 

[EddyLee]

@attheedgeofscience

Thanks so much for sharing your experience and wish you god speed recovery from the evil T!

 

[newarrior]

I am more interested in treating my hearing loss--do they treat this also ? Thanks ! Dave

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I am more interested in treating my hearing loss--do they treat this also ? Thanks ! Dave

If you are only interested in improving your hearing loss, I would recommend laser therapy (in a clinical setting) to begin with. You can see the kinds of improvements you can expect from my introduction (which has audiograms before/after).

 

[mick]

these doctors are top of their class and will stop at nothing to try to cure you of whatever disease or condition you have. Once you pay the initial fee, they will run whatever tests necessary to pinpoint the possible reasons for your medical condition. They are not like your average GP who after 5 minutes in their office, sends you on your way with a prescription for the local pharmacy, with the instruction: take these pills for a week and see if that doesn't help...

You highlight a major problem with medicine as it is practiced the vast majority of the time (at least in the area where I live). I've never been able to figure out why doctors are so reluctant to dig in and really put forth effort to help. They seem to really be geared towards doing the least the can, and I can not figure out why. I don't think its entirely that they are being lazy (though I think that may be part of it), or that they are only concerned about money (I think that is part of it too, but certainly it has to be a very small part), or that they just don't have time (again, that may be part of it, but surely somewhere, somehow, the doctors I've seen are providing good service to someone). I've been so underwhelmed with the performance of doctors I've seen that is it depressing to think about it. In short, "stop at nothing" is not the phrase I would use to describe any doctor I've ever seen. Five minutes is about all the effort you will get from a doctor unless he already knows the solution and it is handed to him on a silver platter.

Its refreshing to hear that there are some doctors in the world who are willing to put forth genuine effort. to help patients.

 

[nills]

thank you for sharing your experience so detailed, please keep us posted you are doing a great job! ... I truly hope for you and all of us that soon you will have succes and start noticing silence inside your being ... all blessings and well being upon you!

 

[Dhaval]

@attheedgeofscience

So how far has the other patient had success. Was his t decreased, how long has it been since his treatment has he had any side effects, etc. I hope that you are feeling better and recovering.

Take care

 

[Sherri786]

I am thinking I am not going to wait for the results, I want to go now.
There's music to be made and a life to live and this just isn't working for me anymore.

Hope you'll keep us updated too RaZaH ! Best wishes

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@attheedgeofscience

So how far has the other patient had success. Was his t decreased, how long has it been since his treatment has he had any side effects, etc. I hope that you are feeling better and recovering.

Take care

Indeed his tinnitus was decreased significantly. I don't know when he had his first stem cell treatment, but it is "some time" ago. When he received his first stem cell treatment, he had had tinnitus for several years. That's as much as I know...