My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

[attheedgeofscience]

His improvement as seen on his audiogram might not look like a lot to most people but I was thinking, whoa, that would make a big difference!

Indeed the audiograms would paint a better picture if the before/after improvement was shown on the same audiogram (instead using two separate audiograms). However, with close inspection it is possible to note that the left ear improvement (= blue line) was 35db at 4 kHz. That's quite a bit.

If you are interested in audiogram results, then there are my own (which I have already posted on this board) and these ones from another person who went through cold laser therapy treatment:

http://healingmenieres.wordpress.com/audiogram-results/

The person above experienced gains of as much as 30 db (but it takes a long time to achieve results with laser).

I wonder what the cost of his treatment was.

USD 20.000,-


Lastly, I would highly advise you to contact GenVec already in the immediate future. Things might be moving faster than some people think; don't delay if you are serious about considering clinical trial enrollment. I would also advise you to get a high frequency audiogram done (at least at some point) - an audiogram which measures all the way up to 16 kHz.

 

[caffclifton]

Hi @attheedgeofscience (i tried to private message you but it wouldn't let me)

I have read a few of your posts and am interested in laser therapy and stem cell information.

Initially i just wanted to find out if you suffered from SSHL and did you find when you spoke to crowds/listened to the radio you got like feedback/morse code beeping noises. Im just wondering if this will go?

Also wondering if you had a hearing aid?

Thanks

Caff

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Hi @attheedgeofscience (i tried to private message you but it wouldn't let me)

Sorry - I usually don't open up a PM (I prefer to keep exchanges available in public so that everyone benefits).

I have read a few of your posts and am interested in laser therapy and stem cell information.

Understood, but what exactly are you interested in that isn't already covered? At this point, I have posted more than 400 messages on this board covering anything and everything from regenerative medicine and stem cells to ototoxic medication. You will not find a single place - anywhere on the entire Internet - with more information about LLLT and stem cells in relation to tinnitus.

Initially i just wanted to find out if you suffered from SSHL and did you find when you spoke to crowds/listened to the radio you got like feedback/morse code beeping noises.

I have never suffered an episode of SSHL. My tinnitus has a reactive component to it. Reactive tinnitus is when tinnitus becomes more noticeable in a certain sound environment eg. watching TV or driving in a car. Reactive tinnitus is not uncommon (double negative). Reactive tinnitus is not hyperacusis (= "pain" from noise). I do have morse code tinnitus in my right ear (somewhat better now, however).

Specifically, the tinnitus I have had since childhood has been reactive tinnitus (right ear). It is not loud, but always noticeable (nothing masks it). I have gone through all medical records dating back to 1982 when I was first hospitalized with Yersinia to try to find a clue. No luck. With hindsight/reflection, I suspect my tinnitus since childhood was caused by a low speed car accident when I was 6 months old (no seat belts back then).

Also wondering if you had a hearing aid?

No.

 

[caffclifton]

Hi @theedgeofscience sorry I didn't mean to offend by trying to write a private message. Just wanted to start a one on one convo as I know you said you didn't want to disclose where you had your treatment publicly.

With regards to finding out more information I wanted to find out what has actually worked best for you. There's so many posts I didn't know what to read. I wanted to see if I sorted my hearing loss would these morse code type beeps stop when I listened to music or was in a crowd.

When you say nothing masks it have you tried a hearing aid and it didn't help? (This is currently what I'm waiting for. Hopefully I'll get my referral appointment soon)

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me

Caff

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I wanted to see if I sorted my hearing loss would these morse code type beeps stop when I listened to music or was in a crowd.

SSHL is a medical emergency. If diagnosed with SSHL, a course of steroids can reverse some/all of the symptoms if given within 24/48 hours. If the the hearing loss is reversed, the tinnitus and muffled hearing will usually also diminish in those cases.

Steroids are only effective within the window of opportunity. After that, it is wait and see.

Experimental treatments may be effective for conditions where the window of opportunity has been missed. The people who are most likely to experience an improvement in their tinnitus (with stem cells and LLLT) are those who have accompanying hearing loss; when the hearing loss is reversed, then the tinnitus is also likely to be reduced... The best known case to date is that of Chloe Sohl (who suffered from auto-immune hearing loss).

Clinical trials and experimental treatments are the only options when conventional treatment methods have been exhausted. Which tends to happen pretty quickly as ENTs have no tools (and no knowledge) to rectify hearing loss and tinnitus conditions. Otology therapies of the inner ear is currently virgin territory. The only solutions would be experimental treatments or one of the (many) upcoming clinical trials. I have previously posted a market analysis of all the major players in the otology market segment, one page back, but I will attach it again here.

I don't see how I can help more than I already have (by sharing unique information about inner ear otology - which is perhaps the most underdeveloped area of medicine in the world...).

When you say nothing masks it have you tried a hearing aid and it didn't help? (This is currently what I'm waiting for. Hopefully I'll get my referral appointment soon)

I haven't tried a hearing aid; I don't have hearing loss in the speech frequencies. Hearing aids will only add to the hearing loss - over time - as hearing aids (obviously) work by amplifying noise input. Not really a good solution. But the only solution there is...

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me

No problem.

 

[caffclifton]

I'm just gutted that the first 2 times I went to the doctors they told me it was Labyrinthitis and I needed to just wait it out. I was given steroids 5 days after my initial consultation. Really dampens my heart that this could have all been treated.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

As with the AM101 thread, I will be leaving this thread permanently - so please don't post questions (at least not to me). I feel I have covered the topic of stem cells from pretty much every angle. I have exhausted all my insight and I therefore have nothing more to share at this point. If you have a burning question, most likely I will have covered it in one of my (many) posts.

The only other thing I will mention is a couple of thoughts about the future of stem cell therapy. As I see it, stem cell technology will move forward along two separate tracks. We will continue to see improvements and sometimes amazing new discoveries in terms of pure research (which is usually focused on embryonic stem cells). This type of research, however, is not directly related to medicine - at least not with immediate applications. Separately from the on-going pure research, we have the use of adult stem cell therapy. This is the type of stem cells used in regenerative medcine. Adult stem cell therapy relies on Mesenchymal stem cells - a potent repair stem cell - with the ability to self-replicate and transform into almost any type of body tissue. This type of therapy is likely to remain the same for the foreseeable future. What will change in the future (= next 5-10 years) - and this is only my guess of course - is the cost and availability of the treatment. My guess is that we will see a reduction in the cost of treatment, and as time progresses, we will also start to see a growing acceptance of the treatment by doctors of conventional medicine. No longer are stem cell clinics restricted to certain parts of Asia; the first stem cell clinics are now also open in both Europe and the United States. And this trend will definitely continue to push forward.

Why is stem cell therapy likely to play an even bigger role in medicine in the years to come? Well, consider this: When I was in China for my 2nd stem cell treatment, I would be picked-up at the hotel by a member of the hospital staff for my scheduled appointments (= blood tests and stem cell injections). On one of those rides back and forth to the hospital, the hospital representative asked me if I wanted to guess the age of the hospital director, Dr. Yang, whom I had a met a couple of days earlier. I guessed her to be about 50 years old. That's when I saw the driver smile - after which he said: "she is 63 years old...!". Only then did he mention that the hospital director goes for stem cell therapy every year (for purely preventive/cosmetic reasons). And this type of therapy not only makes a person look younger - they actually are "biologically" younger too. Stem cell therapy is repairing the body from within. That's why it works. And that's why it will stay.

At some point the research into embryonic stem cells will have improved to the point where it can be used in (human) medicine as well. When this happens, we will see even further dramatic improvements in terms of conditions and pathologies which can be cured. But that's the future, of course. For now and for myself, all I can say is: it's been a thrilling ride at-the-edge-of-science...


A photo of the Mesenchymal stem cell used in regenerative medicine (I received +250 million of these).

 

[Koz]

I do not know if some of you are aware that I've been to China for stem cell therapy or not however I will share with you my experience after I've already had some PM's from some members.. so here goes..

FIRST & FOREMOST - The main thing you have to keep in mind is that stem cells will either work or they will not. It is actually something that is still in experimental stage regardless of how you hear certain countries are advanced with it. This is one of the things that is on the form when you sign it before the first stem cell injection.

It is something that if you can afford and are willing to take the chance to see if it works for you or not, then go for it. As for safety, well, I went to China (Hengyang) because of the amount of stem cells being injected there is higher than anywhere in the world as far as I know.

I have achieved habituation already before going which is why I'm not on these forums a lot in the first place. I feel talking about something bothersome as this only makes me think about it more and then the feedback loop starts. How did I habituate? This book - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tinnitus-Retraining-Therapy-Implementing-Neurophysiological/dp/0521088372/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405862362&sr=8-1&keywords=tinnitus retraining therapy

ACCOMMODATION - This was included within the fee I believe, I stayed at the hotel nearest to the hospital. It was a 5 star hotel however I'd give a 4 tops.

MAIN COMPLICATION - As mentioned before, Stem Cells were not ideally made for hearing loss but for other conditions where you can inject the cells directly into the problem area. It is impossible to inject the Cochlea. You will most likely be injected Intravenously and you will have to wait and see if the cells find their way to the ear or not. In my case it was that + acupuncture to improve blood flow (blood carrying stem cells) and you are advised to exercise in between days after stem cell injections.

RESULT - Don't expect anything miraculous overnight, this is a process that will take time and might not even work. However its been a month and a half since my first injection and I am seeing some results in a sense there are fluctuations with my tinnitus however these days when I wake up my tinnitus is quieter than it was before going. I find by night time its back to normal, but really not as loud as it was pre-stem cells, but honestly, its a matter of waiting and seeing. I will post updates again in 2-3 months.

I have attached some photos that are relevant.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


WHAT AM I DOING NOW? - After having a discussion with attheedgeofscience I discussed to also go the LLLT route. I have been in touch with Dr. Wilden and now I have the home laser which as the good Doctor describes it will

"basically
biostimulative effectiveness of our therapy. After this you will be motivated to use your home laser over a
longer time. Of course after you are convinced from LLLT you are free to come for a 5 - 10 high dosage LLLT by Dr. Wilden®
to my office in Spain / Ibiza ( because your left ear needs a lot of light to become very well again ).''

Now I would have gone to him first but finances and time restricts this at the minute however he is certain that is very very possible that I will be able to regenerate to some lesser degree but a fair degree over time with the home laser device. (Device cost around €2300).



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FINALLY - The only thing I can do now is wait and see what happens and continue using the laser. I will give updates when I can + if I see improvements. However for now when I wake up and see my tinnitus quieter than how it was before going, I think I will see some more positives. Fingers crossed. I will go see Doctor Wilden in Spain (The Germany office is seeing refurbishments or something like that) in December hopefully. This guy is one of the well known tinnitus specialists and ear experts out there.

I would like to thank attheedgeofscience for all the information. Sometimes you have to go and find the cure yourself, it took four doctors to finally diagnose me with hearing loss. Can you believe none of the first three gave me a hearing test and simply dismissed me as ear infection? Even though they actually looked inside my ear. By the time the one who did diagnose me with hearing loss in my left ear, it was too late.

Why did I not notice? Because my right ear is totally fine, it took some degree of hearing loss in my left ear to finally notice.

PLEASE NOTE - I do not wish to discuss the costs of my China trip but I can say the stem cells were provided by a company called Hornetcorn Bitotech. Feel free to ask any questions via PM if you wish, although I really have said all I wanted to say. The stem cells are in the picture below (on the left, these were made specifically for me and the process behind it is why the procedure is very expensive. China is very used to foreign patients coming for stem cell therapy for many medical conditions.)

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I do not know if some of you are aware that I've been to China for stem cell therapy or not however I will share with you my experience after I've already had some PM's from some members.. so here goes..

FIRST & FOREMOST - The main thing you have to keep in mind is that stem cells will either work or they will not. It is actually something that is still in experimental stage regardless of how you hear certain countries are advanced with it. This is one of the things that is on the form when you sign it before the first stem cell injection.

It is something that if you can afford and are willing to take the chance to see if it works for you or not, then go for it. As for safety, well, I went to China (Hengyang) because of the amount of stem cells being injected there is higher than anywhere in the world as far as I know.

I have achieved habituation already before going which is why I'm not on these forums a lot in the first place. I feel talking about something bothersome as this only makes me think about it more and then the feedback loop starts. How did I habituate? This book - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tinnitus-Retraining-Therapy-Implementing-Neurophysiological/dp/0521088372/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405862362&sr=8-1&keywords=tinnitus retraining therapy

ACCOMMODATION - This was included within the fee I believe, I stayed at the hotel nearest to the hospital. It was a 5 star hotel however I'd give a 4 tops.

MAIN COMPLICATION - As mentioned before, Stem Cells were not ideally made for hearing loss but for other conditions where you can inject the cells directly into the problem area. It is impossible to inject the Cochlea. You will most likely be injected Intravenously and you will have to wait and see if the cells find their way to the ear or not. In my case it was that + acupuncture to improve blood flow (blood carrying stem cells) and you are advised to exercise in between days after stem cell injections.

RESULT - Don't expect anything miraculous overnight, this is a process that will take time and might not even work. However its been a month and a half since my first injection and I am seeing some results in a sense there are fluctuations with my tinnitus however these days when I wake up my tinnitus is quieter than it was before going. I find by night time its back to normal, but really not as loud as it was pre-stem cells, but honestly, its a matter of waiting and seeing. I will post updates again in 2-3 months.

I have attached some photos that are relevant.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


WHAT AM I DOING NOW? - After having a discussion with attheedgeofscience I discussed to also go the LLLT route. I have been in touch with Dr. Wilden and now I have the home laser which as the good Doctor describes it will

"basically
biostimulative effectiveness of our therapy. After this you will be motivated to use your home laser over a
longer time. Of course after you are convinced from LLLT you are free to come for a 5 - 10 high dosage LLLT by Dr. Wilden®
to my office in Spain / Ibiza ( because your left ear needs a lot of light to become very well again ).''

Now I would have gone to him first but finances and time restricts this at the minute however he is certain that is very very possible that I will be able to regenerate to some lesser degree but a fair degree over time with the home laser device. (Device cost around €2300).



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FINALLY - The only thing I can do now is wait and see what happens and continue using the laser. I will give updates when I can + if I see improvements. However for now when I wake up and see my tinnitus quieter than how it was before going, I think I will see some more positives. Fingers crossed. I will go see Doctor Wilden in Spain (The Germany office is seeing refurbishments or something like that) in December hopefully. This guy is one of the well known tinnitus specialists and ear experts out there.

I would like to thank attheedgeofscience for all the information. Sometimes you have to go and find the cure yourself, it took four doctors to finally diagnose me with hearing loss. Can you believe none of the first three gave me a hearing test and simply dismissed me as ear infection? Even though they actually looked inside my ear. By the time the one who did diagnose me with hearing loss in my left ear, it was too late.

Why did I not notice? Because my right ear is totally fine, it took some degree of hearing loss in my left ear to finally notice.

PLEASE NOTE - I do not wish to discuss the costs of my China trip but I can say the stem cells were provided by a company called Hornetcorn Bitotech. Feel free to ask any questions via PM if you wish, although I really have said all I wanted to say. The stem cells are in the picture below (on the left, these were made specifically for me and the process behind it is why the procedure is very expensive. China is very used to foreign patients coming for stem cell therapy for many medical conditions.)

Hope all goes well.

Fernando

 

[attheedgeofscience]

A general message to those interested in stem cells and tinnitus.

Since there will be at least one other member of this forum who in the near future will be undergoing stem cell therapy at the first clinic I was treated at, I realize it will be difficult to keep the clinic details hidden from public forever. I have therefore decided to disclose the name of the clinic. I may also be leaving this forum at some point - in which case anyone wishing to attempt the treatment would be unable to locate the clinic. So here it is: I was treated at www.stemcells21.com which is headquartered with www.intellihealthplus.com. It is located in a super nice hotel building complex. I literally just had to walk 10 meters to get to the building in which the clinic was located. The hotel facilities were top quality and so was the clinic (see website photos). The staff is highly competent. They are experts in medicine.

Looking at a stem cell treatment from a cost-benefit point-of-view, I would not really recommend it. The chance of a good result for a condition like tinnitus is simply too unreliable (that's why it is experimental). So please don't start contacting this clinic with tons of questions about hearing loss and tinnitus: they cannot really promise you anything (so don't ask - you know what the answer will be). Also, don't start contacting them if you are not prepared to spend the money in the first place (price range approx. USD 18.000 to 30.000 + travel expenses). These guys are busy enough helping people with other conditions too - as an example, while I was in Bangkok last year, they received a call from a tourist who had become paralyzed from a gunshot assault while on holiday in a South American country. They also have patients with MS and Cerebral Palsy. So only engage in a dialogue with them if you really have made up your mind about this.

It is important to note that the above clinic is a certified clinic - meaning they live up to a number of protocols such as "good lab practices". It also means that they can be trusted. This is important with medical procedures such as stem cells. The treatment is expensive, and they will have to request that you transfer half the treatment cost upfront (ie. in advance of starting the treatment). For this reason, it is obviously important that they can be trusted. And they can. This unlike the hospital I was treated at in China for my 2nd stem cell treatment (Hope Hospital China in Zhuhai: www.hopehospitalchina.com). I was very unlucky that I developed a severe acute allergic reaction to the stem cells by the 3rd injection (something which is very rare). The hospital therefore decided to discontinue my treatment (ie. it was their decision, not mine). I was promised a refund for the remainder of the treatment (ie. 3rd and 4th injection = USD 13,000,-). But upon my return to Germany, I discovered they hadn't made the transfer. I could not bring the sum of money with me in cash due to restrictions on currency control when leaving China (and entering EU!) - otherwise I would have done so (obviously). Having said that - and in retrospect - I am sure they would have managed to come up with some kind of excuse for not giving me the money in cash while I was there. I have since come to know that the Chinese indeed do live up to their reputation for lack of integrity in business matters (when viewed by Western standards). Since then, I have been in a long dialogue with the hospital, but they simply refuse to transfer the agreed sum of money (citing various reasons ie. I should have known the risk and therefore the responsibility is mine; sometimes they will cite one reason, the next time, another reason - if they actually respond at all). It is all just a long list of empty promises when you deal with Chinese businesses. There were also other "red flags" with this hospital: they did not ask for consent when doing blood screening (this definitely should be done if screening includes such things as HIV, hepatitis, and Syphilis); they did not provide meals during the stay and the rooms were sub-standard; they did not ask for contact details of close relatives in case of an emergency (something any decent hospital would do); they also did not provide me with my medical file upon leaving (the so-called discharge report, something which I had specifically requested).

As mentioned in an earlier post above, I do not have any more information to share about stem cells (I have already shared a mountain of unique information in relation to stem cells and tinnitus on this board). So please don't start asking (more) questions. I do not have anything further to say.

I have shared all the background details of above "allegations" with @Markku so you can be certain that it is not made-up. But just in case there should be any remaining hardcore skeptics doubting my trip, please find two photos below (company take-away material binders on stem cells with one of my audiograms on-top).

attheedgeofscience
stem cell pioneer

 

[Cor]

@attheedgeofscience thank you for providing the information on your first stemcell treatment. This is a route I intend to take myself at some point in the future, if other avenues dont provide relieve. Just like you, I dont like inaction. (I co-founded the first internet provider in NL and one of the first in europe, because I couldnt get on the internet legally otherwise

Before I do, im probably going to try other things first, including a hearing aid, LLLT, etc. LLLT especially sounds interesting as I have clear (35-40db see my audiogram) hearing loss in my right ear around 4khz, and probably very bad hearing loss above 10Khz in both ears as I cant hear those tones in a tone generator. I have no idea how I got that hearing loss. I dont recall having been in a really loud environment that would cause 1 sided hearing loss like that. It could be dive related, as I have done about 2000 dives. Have had plenty of ear infections from diving in absolutely gross harbours all over asia.

I'll see if I can find your recommendation regarding an affordable LLLT laser in one of your posts. Im pretty sure I read it someplace.

My T is also reactive, and currently all over the place. Loud, quiet, all kinds of different tones each day. It's really bizarre. Unfortunately it's also getting louder over time it seems.

I really hope you're not leaving this forum, as I find your posts very informative. I have a lot of respect for your persistence in finding a solution, and I think a lot of people are willing to follow your footsteps once you point the way. Fully realising it's unproven grounds.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@attheedgeofscience thank you for providing the information on your first stemcell treatment. This is a route I intend to take myself at some point in the future, if other avenues dont provide relieve. Just like you, I dont like inaction. (I co-founded the first internet provider in NL and one of the first in europe, because I couldnt get on the internet legally otherwise

Before I do, im probably going to try other things first, including a hearing aid, LLLT, etc. LLLT especially sounds interesting as I have clear (35-40db see my audiogram) hearing loss in my right ear around 4khz, and probably very bad hearing loss above 10Khz in both ears as I cant hear those tones in a tone generator. I have no idea how I got that hearing loss. I dont recall having been in a really loud environment that would cause 1 sided hearing loss like that. It could be dive related, as I have done about 2000 dives. Have had plenty of ear infections from diving in absolutely gross harbours all over asia.

Hearing loss like yours - called a "notch" in audiogram language - at around 4 kHz is normally a sign of noise induced hearing loss (along with the ski slope type hearing loss). But since it is one-sided, I suspect there probably is another reason for it (although your left ear might be begining to show signs of it too). But if you say you have stayed away from loud noise, then - yes - there must be another reason. Ear infections and 2000(!) dives could definitely be the culprit. But your tinnitus is definitely (= +90%) due to hearing loss; so no point in doing MRI, neurological exams, dentist evaluations, and whatever else.

I'll see if I can find your recommendation regarding an affordable LLLT laser in one of your posts. Im pretty sure I read it someplace.

If I were to do it all over again, I would probably attempt the following "recipe":

1) Minimum 15 hours of clinic LLLT therapy (preferably 20). Clinic therapy is much more potent - in terms of mW - and has dual wavelength lasers (red and infrared; infrared has a deeper penetration length for body tissue).
2) "Chloe Sohl protocol" using 600 million autologous stem cells (3 x 200). I would possibly consider having one of the three injections delivered as a spinal cord injection. Yes, stem cells are uniquely capable of passing through the blood-brain barrier - something most "things" cannot do - but even so, I still believe that IV delivered stem cells for otology pathologies may be less effective (even though the stem cell experts at stemcells21 claim it makes no difference in the end - I specifically spoke with a senior physician about this while I was there). While in China, I did discuss with the in-house stem cell lab director (who is not a physician, but has Ph.d in biology) about the possibility of locating a vein in the neck which might deliver the stem cells more directly to the cochlea (his own suggestion, not mine). But those plans materialized due to the incident I had (see my post further up). Also - in my non-biologist opinion - there is no vein in the neck that could deliver stem cells directly to the inner ear.
3) Go back for a few more sessions of LLLT (5-10 sessions). Alternatively consider investing in a high-end laser such as the Luminex (provided you know what you are doing; this type of laser is not for amateurs - ask Dr. Wilden for advice before using it...).

I don't really recommend a hearing aid - the reason is quite simple: hearing aids work by amplifying sounds, which only makes the problem even worse (ie. the inner ear is bombarded with even more noise).

I really hope you're not leaving this forum, as I find your posts very informative. I have a lot of respect for your persistence in finding a solution, and I think a lot of people are willing to follow your footsteps once you point the way. Fully realising it's unproven grounds.

I don't really recommend following my footsteps. The only reason I did what I did was because there were no other alternatives. Curing any pathology should be left in the capable hands of scientists and doctors. Unfortunately, they are working with a different timeline than most patients would like. Which is why I had to take matters into my own hands...

A final note: as I have repeated a couple of times already - this is my last post in this thread. No more questions (for me) please...! I have already covered every single aspect of stem cell therapy in my posts; I have nothing more to share. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[oldschool]

ATEOS Thank you for sharing your experiences.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I included a couple of photos from the clinic (www.stemcells21.com) in another thread - and so I thought I might as well post them here too (it gives a better impression, perhaps).

@FERNANDO GIL I'd be happy to hear about your experience if you have a chance to update the forum at some point. And also the final result of course (since you are getting the autologous procedure). When I was in Bangkok at this time, last year, the clinic was expanding onto the floor below (as far as I know). I wonder if they have finished with that project?

Take care.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi Ateos
I think now they are on the 2nd, 3ed and 7th floor.
I was treated all day at the 7th Floor.

Fernando

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I was treated all day at the 7th Floor.

Same as me. Did you get the mini-liposuction, today?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

@attheedgeofscience thank you for providing the information on your first stemcell treatment. This is a route I intend to take myself at some point in the future, if other avenues dont provide relieve. Just like you, I dont like inaction. (I co-founded the first internet provider in NL and one of the first in europe, because I couldnt get on the internet legally otherwise

Before I do, im probably going to try other things first, including a hearing aid, LLLT, etc. LLLT especially sounds interesting as I have clear (35-40db see my audiogram) hearing loss in my right ear around 4khz, and probably very bad hearing loss above 10Khz in both ears as I cant hear those tones in a tone generator. I have no idea how I got that hearing loss. I dont recall having been in a really loud environment that would cause 1 sided hearing loss like that. It could be dive related, as I have done about 2000 dives. Have had plenty of ear infections from diving in absolutely gross harbours all over asia.

I'll see if I can find your recommendation regarding an affordable LLLT laser in one of your posts. Im pretty sure I read it someplace.

My T is also reactive, and currently all over the place. Loud, quiet, all kinds of different tones each day. It's really bizarre. Unfortunately it's also getting louder over time it seems.

I really hope you're not leaving this forum, as I find your posts very informative. I have a lot of respect for your persistence in finding a solution, and I think a lot of people are willing to follow your footsteps once you point the way. Fully realising it's unproven grounds.

Hi Cor
I think you T is on high frequencies, -30 db in my opinion is not enouph for T. T start to show at -40 db But with LLLT that drop will desapear preatty much fast. The problem is the high frequencies that will take lomg time.

I think ATEOS advice is correct. If you have a chance, go to Norway for the treatment in Anne clinic to start.
It´s cheaper than Dr Wilden. And of corse close to NL than Ibiza.

Fernando

 

[Jay M]

If I were to do it all over again, I would probably attempt the following "recipe":

1) Minimum 15 hours of clinic LLLT therapy (preferably 20). Clinic therapy is much more potent - in terms of mW - and has dual wavelength lasers (red and infrared; infrared has a deeper penetration length for body tissue).
2) "Chloe Sohl protocol" using 600 million autologous stem cells (3 x 200).
3) Go back for a few more sessions of LLLT (5-10 sessions). Alternatively consider investing in a high-end laser such as the Luminex (provided you know what you are doing; this type of laser is not for amateurs - ask Dr. Wilden for advice before using it...).

I've read "My Trip To Bangkok" and now this thread too. I live in the US and can afford these types of treatment. I want to be sure I'm contacting the right Dr Wilden. Can you please provide me a link to his website? Also how long would you wait between LLLT and Stem Cells? Would you give LLLT at least 6 months to evaluate any improvements before deciding if Stem Cells is necessary? If I have to I'll buy the Luminex home laser. My hearing loss starts dropping or "notches" at around 4 kHz and bottoms out at 8 kHz -35 to -40 db. Thanks in advance and I hope you hang around TT.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

@Jay M
Here it is
http://www.dr-wilden.de

His ofice is in IBIZA now, not germany. But I think there is a clinic in Southern California that does same treatment.

Check this page:
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/low-level-laser-therapy-lllt-for-tinnitus-dr-wilden.295/page-4


Important to have a audigram all the way to 16 Mhz

Fernando

 

[Isabella 123]

I have been reading about the stem cell treatment but trying to comb through all the threads is an arduous task. I understand someone did two stem cell treatments and my question is, what was the final result? Thanks, Isabella

 

[Kaelon]

I have been reading about the stem cell treatment but trying to comb through all the threads is an arduous task. I understand someone did two stem cell treatments and my question is, what was the final result? Thanks, Isabella

Hi @Isabella 123 -

It's fascinating reading, and you should really check out ATEOS' entire journal (linked to on the first post on the first page of this thread). That said, the verdict is mixed: his first stem cell treatments produced modest improvements in his Tinnitus (along with other assorted peripheral health benefits, mostly connected with inflammation and skin health), but it did not cure him. He last posted a couple of weeks ago from Istanbul en route to his second major treatment in an effort to definitively cure his Tinnitus, but he acknowledged that this seemed to be a "now or never" (his words) moment to see if he is able to push towards a resolution.

In my opinion, ATEOS is incredibly courageous to be undertaking the personal risk to his health and well-being, not to mention the considerable financial outlay (he's spent more than 40,000 EUR on these treatments to-date), for a science that is in its infancy, and quite honestly, has a very high probability of failure.

 

[1MW]

I have heard a lot of stories of rare diseases and stem cell therapy in bangkong.
I truly believe that is HUGE scam because Thailand has not have serious science.
Why these stem cell therapies does not exist in usa and europe universities ?
Because there is scam don't loose your money and you time to bangkonese scams...
Bangkong clinics does not exist in scientific magazines does not exists in serious clinical trials is only for tourism no for medical services not for any cure.
Bangkong shows stem cells like black magic that cure you and this black magic cost a lot with no results.
Don't buy false hopes...

In the other hand gene therapy seems to give some results... novartis has a trial with deaf people
that will inject to him atoh1 gene with a virus and seems to have some results.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Why these stem cell therapies does not exist in usa and europe universities ?

And this...?

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02038972

The last time I checked, Florida was in the United States...

 

[Stink]

And this...?

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02038972

The last time I checked, Florida was in the United States...

you were scammed out of lot of money so you are butthurt
this florida study "To determine if"

thailand and china clinics already now claim their stem cells can cure one's brain and enlarge one's penis (exageration).
the science is not there.

sorry...it's truth. 1MW is right.

 

[Zimichael]

I have heard a lot of stories of rare diseases and stem cell therapy in bangkong.
I truly believe that is HUGE scam because Thailand has not have serious science.
Why these stem cell therapies does not exist in usa and europe universities ?
Because there is scam don't loose your money and you time to bangkonese scams...
Bangkong clinics does not exist in scientific magazines does not exists in serious clinical trials is only for tourism no for medical services not for any cure.
Bangkong shows stem cells like black magic that cure you and this black magic cost a lot with no results.
Don't buy false hopes...

In the other hand gene therapy seems to give some results... novartis has a trial with deaf people
that will inject to him atoh1 gene with a virus and seems to have some results.

You know @1MW ...I could say this a lot less politely, but I have watched your posts for some time now (and PM a while back) and you really need to just "Shut the F**k up!" about things you know nothing about.

I have been to plenty of professional, expert, top of the line docs in USA...and also been to Bangkok three times in the last decade. I have been to a number of hospitals there (and clinic-hospitals) for a few chronic issues (gut and ???), as well as acupuncture treatments for T and H...Overall, the quality of care is almost BETTER across the board than in USA!!!

- Have you ever been there???
- Have you been to Bumrungrad??? (Google it! Google images too!) Many sheikhs, and royalty, and all sorts of very 'wealthy selective' patients there! This is not some dirt floor place in a rice paddy.
- Have you been to Vibhavadi?, Nonthavej?, Mission Hospital? World Medical Center, on Chaengwattana Road in Pakkret (suburb - near where my wife lived too)?
- And so on...

NO! I don't think you have. Or you would know that the prices even for the "normal hospitals" like Vibhavadi and Nonthavej are about 90% cheaper than here in USA and quality of care is equal or better. For places like Bumrungrad it is like Mayo or Cleveland clinic at half the cost and triple the staff for max personal attention. Wait times for walk-in at all the above were negligible, irrelevant!
The 'Plain Jane' GI docs (actually all women) I saw at the "cheap everyday hospitals" in a matter of 10 to 15 minutes got to where my GI expert docs in USA had laboured to get to in months of visits, ...and no, I did not give them clues. They just asked questions. Good questions. I'm no idiot when it comes to gut stuff. Oh, and tests were done right there and then...NO wait times!

In short...BLOODY IMPRESSIVE all round!!! And flying there is cheaper than walking in the door at UCSF Medical Center in San Fran.

So I repeat...Stop pretending to be an expert on stuff you know ZERO about! You just clutter up threads with hogwash, and we don't need it!

Zimichael

 

[attheedgeofscience]

this florida study "To determine if"

With a clinical study there is always an "if"- otherwise it wouldn't be a study!

you were scammed out of lot of money so you are butthurt

I could have chosen not to report the story at all, in which case - you and... well the entire Internet - would never have known about it. But I reported it (along with all the facts) for the benefit of people like you. Although in retrospect, I sometimes wonder why I bothered.

On a slight side note, I should mention that earlier this week I was approached by a tinnitus researcher asking if I wanted to become part of a future multi-dimensional team. The request was a consequence of the publicly visible work on potassium channel modulators which Team Trobalt has been involved in (as well as all the contacts I developed during that project). It is because of a very limited number and dedicated people like @Zimichael and myself (and our contacts) that this forum has any kind of correct, solid and tangible information on the latest research flowing to its members. Without us, this forum would pretty much be a bunch of hopeless armchair critics.

When was the last time you were approached by a tinnitus researcher asking to participate in a research project? I suggest you give that some thought. And until you have finished your thinking, here is a piece of advice for you: please be kind to unplug your Internet connection so as to at least try to limit the amount damage you inflict on the rest of humanity. Please.

 

[RB2014]

Attheedgeofscience,
Many of us on the forum appreciate the information and experiences you have provided. At the end of the day we are all in this together dealing with something that has been life changing for most of us. When I went to see my ENT in December as my T was blaring life a fog horn, I was told that I needed to get more exercise and ushered out the door. That was the worst $25 I ever spent. Your posts along with the posts of others have helped me better navigate this journey and gain a better insight into how to deal with this and what to expect in the future. Thanks again.

 

[oldschool]

ATEOS,

There are probably a silent majority who appreciate your sharing of events. However, it is probably healthy to have some scepticism as there are a lot of shills on forums and it can be difficult to figure out who is who.

I would ignore those proffering blunt, unsupported opinion. It is not worth the time or effort to even address.

As to treatments in the US... There are a lot of reasons why oft good treatments are not available in the US. The US typically lags behind, does not rush into, new treatments because of experience with things like thalidomide, which harmed many, many peoples' lives because it was released without sufficient testing. Other times it is simply too expensive to get the studies done and get through regulatory burdens to get a treatment to market. Finally, there are competitive interests that seek to keep some treatments out. I am not saying we don't have a good health system.

Fernando, you have now had the stem cell treatments. What are your results?

 

[RichL]

you were scammed out of lot of money so you are butthurt
this florida study "To determine if"

thailand and china clinics already now claim their stem cells can cure one's brain and enlarge one's penis (exageration).
the science is not there.

sorry...it's truth. 1MW is right.

Your post's are short, lack substance, and contain child like opinion's!

Please tell me that your soul purpose here is not to troll!

Your privacy settings preventing viewing your profile only strengthens this opinion!

 

[Stink]

Your post's are short, lack substance, and contain child like opinion's!

Please tell me that your soul purpose here is not to troll!

Your privacy settings preventing viewing your profile only strengthens this opinion!

i apologize if i offended.