My Update — Visit to the Tinnitus and Hyperacusis Clinic at Froedtert

[AmericanJosh]

Saw audiologist at the tinnitus and hyperacusis clinic at Medical College of Wisconsin. They did numerous tests and found that I have hearing loss between about 15 and 20 kHz. Thankfully not at the hearing floor level, but clearly outer hairs are damaged. No loss up to about 12 kHz at all. Eardrums and canals are great and no indication of middle ear issues.

Did an hour's counseling session but I already knew most of the things prior to going based on hours of my own research.

She did mention that fixing hair cells would likely not cure most tinnitus because current research indicates that once you have tinnitus for a while, then it is in the brain.

They suggested sound therapy and gave me information on how to do this on my own for free.

 

[Jack Straw]

Saw audiologist at the tinnitus and hyperacusis clinic at Medical College of Wisconsin. They did numerous tests and found that I have hearing loss between about 15 and 20 kHz. Thankfully not at the hearing floor level, but clearly outer hairs are damaged. No loss up to about 12 kHz at all. Eardrums and canals are great and no indication of middle ear issues.

Did an hour's counseling session but I already knew most of the things prior to going based on hours of my own research.

She did mention that fixing hair cells would likely not cure most tinnitus because current research indicates that once you have tinnitus for a while, then it is in the brain.

They suggested sound therapy and gave me information on how to do this on my own for free.

I am not sure they are correct.

There are some theories that once the inner hair cells are repaired and sending correct signals to the brain the problem will correct itself.

@JohnAdams is more knowledgeable about this than me.

 

[Red]

She did mention that fixing hair cells would likely not cure most tinnitus because current research indicates that once you have tinnitus for a while, then it is in the brain.

Oof. That's tough to hear but ultimately important. While we don't know for sure, it is a good idea to set onself for disappointment in case regeneration doesn't work.

 

[JohnAdams]

I am not sure they are correct.

There are some theories that once the inner hair cells are repaired and sending correct signals to the brain the problem will correct itself.

@JohnAdams is more knowledgeable about this than me.

I wouldnt go that far..... we only have presumptions. However I would presume that audiologist is talking out of her ass. We just wont know until data on human hair cell regeneration is released. If that woman was a true doctor she would understand the scientific method and not make such assumptive comments.

 

[dpdx]

Saw audiologist at the tinnitus and hyperacusis clinic at Medical College of Wisconsin. They did numerous tests and found that I have hearing loss between about 15 and 20 kHz. Thankfully not at the hearing floor level, but clearly outer hairs are damaged. No loss up to about 12 kHz at all. Eardrums and canals are great and no indication of middle ear issues.

Did an hour's counseling session but I already knew most of the things prior to going based on hours of my own research.

She did mention that fixing hair cells would likely not cure most tinnitus because current research indicates that once you have tinnitus for a while, then it is in the brain.

They suggested sound therapy and gave me information on how to do this on my own for free.

Did you do an audiogram/DPOAE?
I have also hair cells damaged.

 

[dpdx]

Saw audiologist at the tinnitus and hyperacusis clinic at Medical College of Wisconsin. They did numerous tests and found that I have hearing loss between about 15 and 20 kHz. Thankfully not at the hearing floor level, but clearly outer hairs are damaged. No loss up to about 12 kHz at all. Eardrums and canals are great and no indication of middle ear issues.

Did an hour's counseling session but I already knew most of the things prior to going based on hours of my own research.

She did mention that fixing hair cells would likely not cure most tinnitus because current research indicates that once you have tinnitus for a while, then it is in the brain.

They suggested sound therapy and gave me information on how to do this on my own for free.

How much loss in higher frequencies?

 

[Michael B]

Depending on your age, it's my understanding that hearing loss at 15kHz and above is normal.

 

[PortalNaut]

@AmericanJosh what is your age range? (update, I see your first posts saying in 40's). I'm in my 50's and cant hear much above 13kHz. As one gets older and the ability to hear high frequency decreases, some people (minor portion) get T from the decreased range, while others adjust slowly and T doesn't come up. I had a noise event and I think I did lose some of the high range I had had but maybe not much. If you had a sudden event impacting that range you mentioned, I am very sorry.

 

[AmericanJosh]

@AmericanJosh what is your age range? (update, I see your first posts saying in 40's). I'm in my 50's and cant hear much above 13kHz. As one gets older and the ability to hear high frequency decreases, some people (minor portion) get T from the decreased range, while others adjust slowly and T doesn't come up. I had a noise event and I think I did lose some of the high range I had had but maybe not much. If you had a sudden event impacting that range you mentioned, I am very sorry.

@PortalNaut . Just turned 40 last week. I've done loud home remodeling work for 10 years on my home and never used ear protection and listened to loud music and podcasts v ou a earbuds for years. I am confident that's what injured me.

 

[PortalNaut]

Well it's impressive you have had good high end hearing, but the loss of parts of it in the way that you say must have happened has caused the T and as we all know, T sucks. Perhaps with time it will get better. For what it's worth I do think the brain can "calm down" some and do some remapping. I heard one description that after an event and damage, the brain hearing circuit is acting like it has turned up the gain. And so we have to get that response back to something normal.

Good luck!

 

[AmericanJosh]

Well it's impressive you have had good high end hearing, but the loss of parts of it in the way that you say must have happened has caused the T and as we all know, T sucks. Perhaps with time it will get better. For what it's worth I do think the brain can "calm down" some and do some remapping. I heard one description that after an event and damage, the brain hearing circuit is acting like it has turned up the gain. And so we have to get that response back to something normal.

Good luck!

@PortalNaut That's what the audiologist said. Our brains have plasticity which allows new connections. This happens all the time, with new experiences and thoughts. By not perceiving t as a threat and not having a negative reaction to it, it can indeed be ignored for the most part.

 

[Contrast]

tinnitus is always in the brain, but where is she getting the evidence to say hair cell regeneration will not reverse tinnutus? Why did she say tinnitus becomes neurological after a while?

Cochlear implants, stadectomies, and stimulation of the audiotory nerve can help tinnitus in long term cases.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3315113/

https://blog.medel.com/cochlear-implants-tinnitus-cure/

http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/articles/can-cochlear-implants-decrease-tinnitus.pdf

 

[Contrast]

Was it pure tonal audiometry or did they test for speech in background noise?

 

[AmericanJosh]

Was it pure tonal audiometry or did they test for speech in background noise?

Tonal, then a voice recognition at various volumes.

 

[AmericanJosh]

tinnitus is always in the brain, but where is she getting the evidence to say hair cell regeneration will not reverse tinnutus? Why did she say tinnitus becomes neurological after a while?

Cochlear implants, stadectomies, and stimulation of the audiotory nerve can help tinnitus in long term cases.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3315113/

https://blog.medel.com/cochlear-implants-tinnitus-cure/View attachment 23001
http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/articles/can-cochlear-implants-decrease-tinnitus.pdf

She said the current, reliable research indicates that once it gets into the brain and other brain centers, repairing hair cells won't undo those connections that were made throughout the network in the brain.

The studies you cited are unreliable and do not meet the requirements of a good study. See the elements of a good clinical study here. In the first one you cited, there were only 13 subjects. Studies should have no less than 50 subjects to be valid and reliable. In addition, one study on any scientific question is never enough. Studies must be repeatable to be valid - this is the basis of scientific inquiry.

 

[Contrast]

She said the current, reliable research indicates that once it gets into the brain and other brain centers, repairing hair cells won't undo those connections that were made throughout the network in the brain.

The studies you cited are unreliable and do not meet the requirements of a good study. See the elements of a good clinical study here. In the first one you cited, there were only 13 subjects. Studies should have no less than 50 subjects to be valid and reliable. In addition, one study on any scientific question is never enough. Studies must be repeatable to be valid - this is the basis of scientific inquiry.

where is the study she cited?