Neosensory — Bimodal Stimulation Device for Tinnitus: Any Reviews? A Scam or Not?

[GBB]

This is exactly what it is. "Professionally" hyped quack junk.

Neosensory is going to make their millions off of the backs of sufferers while a few handful of us report improvements. All of those improvements will be from placebo or they would have happened regardless of using this quack device.

Guys, it's free if you return it in a month. Assuming it doesn't fuck up your brain it's a *risk free proposition*. Try it or don't but what's the point of circle jerk hating on it?

 

[Matchbox]

This looks fine for deafness but feels like Flare Audio Calmer where they try too hard to appease an "unfixable need".

With the right statistics (or lack of) I could make giving me money and me praying for you lower your THI over a wide enough time scale (without accounting for any other variables of course and obviously no nasty controls) look like it lowers tinnitus on average by 10%. Who would pay for that?

There's good science and bad science, I don't give a crap that his name is authored in a journal. I have followed bad science journals, and guess what? The treatment doesn't work... and the risk IS you get worse from it.

The only thing a tinnitus treatment wouldn't want is to advertise making you worse, so the stats are very tweaked and super biased to discount any "negative" responders as outliers, and then IF followed up on, coerced to say something akin to "I'm a bit better now" and they call it reversible (barring outright lying and then getting sued in an onslaught).

Even the most honest guys are subject to bias and pressure to publish. The reason the Higgs Boson took so long to prove was because they had to be absolutely sure because they KNEW people would be checking.

There isn't the resources to check, verify and have a meta-analysis of every journal article sadly. In fact, undergraduates are discouraged from repeating an old experiment as a capstone to which I strongly object as it gives "yet another" point of reference as to if it is indeed the truth!

It happens to even medications that get through Phase 3 clinical trials! And pretty often too, where side effects were skewed or outliers incorrectly/conveniently discounted. I can adjust my p values and alpha all day long to get a meaningful result (above .01 confidence isn't worth your time to read).

If it happens to "good" science, just imagine what happens with crackpot articles taken as face value. If it isn't cited at least 100 times with some repeats / meta-analysis in there at least "suggesting" an effect, I walk away.

 

[MindOverMatter]

No one is forced to try it out. It's a free world. And as far as I can see there are no direct promises regarding the effect? As @GBB points out:

Guys, it's free if you return it in a month.... Try it or don't but what's the point of circle jerk hating on it?

@GBB, it will be interesting to see what you conclude in the end regarding this stimulation device.

 

[UHPTS]

I do not believe that those one second beeps can do anything.Also 10 minutes per day? Sounds too good to be true.

 

[linearb]

I do not believe that those one second beeps can do anything. Also 10 minutes per day? Sounds too good to be true.

In the case of real bimodal stimulation (Lenire, plus whatever UMich's eventual device will be called), the beeps are precisely timed to correlate to an electrical stimulation to the trigeminal nerves, which tricks the brain into unwiring tinnitus. I got to use one of these devices as a research subject at UMich, and I believe it worked and the tech has a lot of promise and I will buy one as soon as I can.

But, Neosensory looks like some random sketchball company that is totally not doing all the normal things you'd do to test a medical device and get it approved. Probably their thing doesn't work at all; if it does, then they are very likely infringing on relevant patents from Lenire and / or UMich.

Guys, it's free if you return it in a month. Assuming it doesn't fuck up your brain it's a *risk free proposition*. Try it or don't but what's the point of circle jerk hating on it?

I think your assumption is unsafe. UMich staff directly told me that incorrect timing could worsen tinnitus, and that this also was not something they had explored much other than avoiding it. We have a few people who seemed to have very difficult experiences with Lenire.

I don't trust Lenire very much, but this garbage? This is like if I made a Xerox of Lenire and then had some bro-science startup manufacture a bunch. I would not touch this.

 

[GBB]

In the case of real bimodal stimulation (Lenire, plus whatever UMich's eventual device will be called), the beeps are precisely timed to correlate to an electrical stimulation to the trigeminal nerves, which tricks the brain into unwiring tinnitus. I got to use one of these devices as a research subject at UMich, and I believe it worked and the tech has a lot of promise and I will buy one as soon as I can.

But, Neosensory looks like some random sketchball company that is totally not doing all the normal things you'd do to test a medical device and get it approved. Probably their thing doesn't work at all; if it does, then they are very likely infringing on relevant patents from Lenire and / or UMich.

I think your assumption is unsafe. UMich staff directly told me that incorrect timing could worsen tinnitus, and that this also was not something they had explored much other than avoiding it. We have a few people who seemed to have very difficult experiences with Lenire.

I don't trust Lenire very much, but this garbage? This is like if I made a Xerox of Lenire and then had some bro-science startup manufacture a bunch. I would not touch this.

That's fair. I think being we are not using an electrical impulse to directly stimulate a nerve here, it's probably a few magnitudes of order of risk less than a traditional Shore style device. I accept that any medical therapy/procedure carries risk, and have a hunch people are likely blowing this well out of proportion in terms of it's purported scammy/malignant qualities - that's why I'm putting my body on the line to test it.

Frankly there is no evidence that this device makes people worse, though there is some putative literature on their site that seems to demonstrate some positive effect. How good the quality of that research is I have no idea, but let's not catastrophize.

I do not believe that those one second beeps can do anything.

Only one way to find out. Frankly I think the greatest probability is no change better or worse, but my frustration with this community is the *collective* (this is not personally directed at you) lack of appetite to try every possible solution.

Granted there are people here who try and fail, but the greater number just winge and never do crap frankly. I'll literally die before I become the latter.

No one is forced to try it out. It's a free world. And as far as I can see there are no direct promises regarding the effect? As @GBB points out:

@GBB, it will be interesting to see what you conclude in the end regarding this stimulation device.

Frankly I expect little to no benefit but anyone who nihilistically pre-judges outcomes can disappear. It's not additive to this community. I have criticized certain thing like LLLT but only after buying the most expensive unit and trying it extensively, and even then I don't purport that this is anything more than my personal experience, someone else's could be entirely different.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To @GBB:
There is a vast difference between "nihilistically pre-judging outcomes" and making an evidence-based, carefully considered assessment and resultant estimate of viability.

The necessity for such careful evaluation is also financial; I spent $5,269.00 on Desyncra, and it appears that if the FDA approves Lenire it will cost (at least among Chicago Audiology Groups) over $3,000.00. In the seven plus years I have had this I have spent probably $12,500.00 on useless "treatments", supplements, et.al. (one lady on this forum said that she has actually spent $50,000.00 in a quest to find something that is even remotely palliative).

I do not have the financial resources nor the easily enticed credulousness to continue to throw this kind of good money after bad.

Us long-term veterans of this condition regard a balanced, calibrated skepticism as essential for protection against the veritable panoply of so many seemingly impressive but functionally worthless "treatments" we have encountered.

 

[GBB]

To @GBB:
There is a vast difference between "nihilistically pre-judging outcomes" and making an evidence-based, carefully considered assessment and resultant estimate of viability.

The necessity for such careful evaluation is also financial; I spent $5,269.00 on Desyncra, and it appears that if the FDA approves Lenire it will cost (at least among Chicago Audiology Groups) over $3,000.00. In the seven plus years I have had this I have spent probably $12,500.00 on useless "treatments", supplements, et.al. (one lady on this forum said that she has actually spent $50,000.00 in a quest to find something that is even remotely palliative).

I do not have the financial resources nor the easily enticed credulousness to continue to throw this kind of good money after bad.

Us long-term veterans of this condition regard a balanced, calibrated skepticism as essential for protection against the veritable panoply of so many seemingly impressive but functionally worthless "treatments" we have encountered.

You just ignored the fact that you can return it for free though.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To GBB:

Your point is well taken. Pardon my cynicism; after numerous expensive, useless endeavors (and at least three ENT doctors practically shouting their mantra "THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THIS"), it is difficult to be optimistic.

Have you received it yet? (I recall your comment about how they started the period of usage before you actually received it).

Don't get me wrong; I would pay $20,000.00 for something that permanently eliminated this.

I am glad that someone with your perceptive acuity is trying this, because you appear to be quite capable of discerning a placebo-induced belief in improvement vs. a real one.

Let us know if this really does anything. I truly hope that I am wrong that it won't.

 

[GBB]

To GBB:

Your point is well taken. Pardon my cynicism; after numerous expensive, useless endeavors (and at least three ENT doctors practically shouting their mantra "THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THIS"), it is difficult to be optimistic.

Have you received it yet? (I recall your comment about how they started the period of usage before you actually received it).

Don't get me wrong; I would pay $20,000.00 for something that permanently eliminated this.

I am glad that someone with your perceptive acuity is trying this, because you appear to be quite capable of discerning a placebo-induced belief in improvement vs. a real one.

Let us know if this really does anything. I truly hope that I am wrong that it won't.

I'll report back - I've had it for 5 days. I doubt it will do much but wanted to try.

I don't mean to be an ass, my temper is just easy to stoke with all of this. Sorry if I directed any strongly-worded statements at you. My north star is still to try things and try to add more data to this community, so I like to believe my intentions are good at least.

 

[linearb]

You just ignored the fact that you can return it for free though.

What I want is a trip report from someone who uses it for 20 days and then attempts to return it. "Free returns" are a hallmark of a lot of snake oil. Sometimes they just bank on people not bothering to refund a $20 bottle of magic beans, but also sometimes it's not nearly as easy to get said refund as you'd hope.

 

[GBB]

What I want is a trip report from someone who uses it for 20 days and then attempts to return it. "Free returns" are a hallmark of a lot of snake oil. Sometimes they just bank on people not bothering to refund a $20 bottle of magic beans, but also sometimes it's not nearly as easy to get said refund as you'd hope.

If it doesn't work for me, I'll return it and I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[GBB]

Here's what the band looks like and a screenshot of the app:

And my setup for good measure

 

[VeryUnfortunate]

Here's what the band looks like and a screenshot of the app

Thanks for the pictures. I must also say that is a nice setup. Can I ask how you got Tinnitus Talk in dark mode as well?

 

[GBB]

Thanks for the pictures. I must also say that is a nice setup. Can I ask how you got Tinnitus Talk in dark mode as well?

No problem. I use the Chrome extension, Dark Reader. It applies it to every site.

 

[TibuJenkins]

I received my device today. Overall thoughts is that it seems very well designed. App and band have a very "Apple like" quality and feel to them. I truly doubt this will work. It's almost like a reverse placebo I got with this thing but we'll see.

The alternating notes it plays from low to very high can get slightly piercing on the high end. I don't have hyperacusis that I know of, so this might be a consideration for some people. Of course, this was at max volume on my phone. You can set it at the volume you want as long as the band can "sense" the sounds.

I have not done a session yet. I'll start tomorrow and report back. I found it funny that their headquarters are a couple of minutes from my work in Houston.

 

[GBB]

I received my device today. Overall thoughts is that it seems very well designed. App and band have a very "Apple like" quality and feel to them. I truly doubt this will work. It's almost like a reverse placebo I got with this thing but we'll see.

The alternating notes it plays from low to very high can get slightly piercing on the high end. I don't have hyperacusis that I know of, so this might be a consideration for some people. Of course, this was at max volume on my phone. You can set it at the volume you want as long as the band can "sense" the sounds.

I have not done a session yet. I'll start tomorrow and report back. I found it funny that their headquarters are a couple of minutes from my work in Houston.

I do like 40% volume on my iPhone speakers - I can't imagine maxing it out to be honest.

 

[Danjfoley]

Has Neosensory worked for anyone? You are probably still in the 2 month period of trying it. My tinnitus is so loud that I'd do anything to quiet it down.

Is there ever going to be a cure? Even something that makes it not so loud? Is anyone actually working on it? It seems like devices like this come out all the time, and they never work - for if they did ever single one of us would buy one.

Instead we are all left with ringing in our ears that never goes away. I really hope some serious science is being done out there and there will be a real "cure" for this soon. It's hard to live like this.

 

[GBB]

The first few times I used this it made my tinnitus shrink to a fizzle or skillet with oil noise — the last few times it has raised my tinnitus to loud tonal. No clear relief yet.

 

[GBB]

Okay I'm coming up on two weeks. Results are mixed.

The first 5 days I used the device, there was a clear pacifying influence, similar to YouTube neuromodulation videos. If my tinnitus had any high pitched or buzzy/grindy elements, they would go down to low tone wawawa or even occasional straight hissing.

That being said the remaining days seemed to have the opposite effect - I believe partially due to my reactivity, listening to the tones for 10 minutes, which reach very high registers, seem to add fuel to my tinnitus, and give a similar effect to when I listen to too much music, or am over-exposed to other sounds.

I now need to take a rest as I don't want to re-enflame or irritate my nerves. I do wish I had no reactivity/hyperacusis so I could see where things lead, but unfortunately that's not the case right now.

For those unfamiliar with my case, PC fans, showering and driving are all very troublesome for me, to the point they can derail my day if noise exposure is not managed properly. Hence, this is a big factor in any prospective treatment.

Since I only have 30 days in the return window, I'll monitor my ears and see if I can resume, or if I need to start thinking about returning sooner rather than later.

 

[Contrast]

Thanks for the pictures. I must also say that is a nice setup. Can I ask how you got Tinnitus Talk in dark mode as well?

I myself usually dislike dark themes as I find them difficult to be productive with, but LOL I was wondering the same on how he got Tinnitus Talk in dark mode. That's a pretty cool extension.

 

[GBB]

I myself usually dislike dark themes as I find them difficult to be productive with, but LOL I was wondering the same on how he got Tinnitus Talk in dark mode. That's a pretty cool extension.

I lied, it's for Illuminati members only.

 

[wwtsai]

the last few times it has raised my tinnitus to loud tonal.

Did your tinnitus return to baseline afterwards?

 

[GBB]

Did your tinnitus return to baseline afterwards?

Yes it did. It was only affected positively or negatively on the days I used the device.

 

[Bambam0]

@GBB, @TibuJenkins, how is this going for you both?

 

[GBB]

@GBB, @TibuJenkins, how is this going for you both?

The beeps were too irritating to my reactivity so I had to stop, unfortunately. The rest of my experience is recorded above.

 

[TrevorSanders]

The beeps were too irritating to my reactivity so I had to stop, unfortunately. The rest of my experience is recorded above.

Are you planning on returning it then? Let us know how the process goes if that's the course of action you take.

 

[GBB]

Are you planning on returning it then? Let us know how the process goes if that's the course of action you take.

Most likely. I emailed them and they said to just send it back if I wanted. No hassle - actually they were very apologetic.

 

[Eric Ryder]

OK, so... I just stumbled onto this thread. I've been using the Neosensory Buzz for 4 weeks now. Aggressively. 30 minutes to an hour a day. I also wore it while playing Art of Zen clips for 6 hours straight. I had a bad spike later that night.

My impression so far is that it has softened my noise to a frying hiss. And perhaps a 10% volume reduction. Hard to say for sure. My tinnitus varies all day and night, but for the most part, it seems a little lower overall. I was hoping for more, but I'm going to keep going the full two months.

So... Why? Because unlike the naysayers on here, I actually watched David Eagleman's TED Talk. All the way through. Prior to the Buzz for deaf people, they created a vest with the same buzzing motors on it, only a lot of them. They are helping create a "new sense" by associating vibrations with sounds. Creating a new neural pathway. There is NO REASON not to believe this can do the same thing for tinnitus, when you factor in the Lenire and Notch Therapy. Major hearing aid companies like Signia include Notch Therapy in their hearing aids now. I've read the papers from their scientists on this.

This shit WORKS. The only question is if the stimulation has to be through the tongue or can it be thru the skin. David Eagleman believes the skin is just as effective, and it's not a big leap to believe that, given the proven success of the Buzz for deaf people.

You can say "placebo" all you want. But you can't placebo your way out of severe tinnitus down 50% in 8 weeks, like David Eagleman personally told me a few weeks ago that one of their users reported. I've talked to him personally, by Zoom. The company is the real deal. They're not the typical money grubbing scammers, like that scumbag Liam Boehm, who may have good ideas that work, but is trying to rob people of $400 to give that help to them.

 

[GBB]

OK, so... I just stumbled onto this thread. I've been using the Neosensory Buzz for 4 weeks now. Aggressively. 30 minutes to an hour a day. I also wore it while playing Art of Zen clips for 6 hours straight. I had a bad spike later that night.

My impression so far is that it has softened my noise to a frying hiss. And perhaps a 10% volume reduction. Hard to say for sure. My tinnitus varies all day and night, but for the most part, it seems a little lower overall. I was hoping for more, but I'm going to keep going the full two months.

So... Why? Because unlike the naysayers on here, I actually watched David Eagleman's TED Talk. All the way through. Prior to the Buzz for deaf people, they created a vest with the same buzzing motors on it, only a lot of them. They are helping create a "new sense" by associating vibrations with sounds. Creating a new neural pathway. There is NO REASON not to believe this can do the same thing for tinnitus, when you factor in the Lenire and Notch Therapy. Major hearing aid companies like Signia include Notch Therapy in their hearing aids now. I've read the papers from their scientists on this.

This shit WORKS. The only question is if the stimulation has to be through the tongue or can it be thru the skin. David Eagleman believes the skin is just as effective, and it's not a big leap to believe that, given the proven success of the Buzz for deaf people.

You can say "placebo" all you want. But you can't placebo your way out of severe tinnitus down 50% in 8 weeks, like David Eagleman personally told me a few weeks ago that one of their users reported. I've talked to him personally, by Zoom. The company is the real deal. They're not the typical money grubbing scammers, like that scumbag Liam Boehm, who may have good ideas that work, but is trying to rob people of $400 to give that help to them.

Hey, it had an effect for me too, but just could not handle the beeps because of my hyperacusis - particularly those upper beeps. Best of luck.