Neuromonics
- Thread starter Markku
- Start date
From what I have read or heard neither Neuromonics nor any other treatment protocol facilitates a reduction in the volume of tinnitus. Maybe at best there might be some residual inhibition for a very short period of time. I would take that anecdotal report from facebook with a grain of salt.
Member
I would agree that habituation is the way to go until a cure is truly found. I am trying to keep a diary of when it is worse versus manageable. It is a shame that insurance will not even touch a treatment for this but will for drug dependencies and birth control. It's there a way to do habituation without spending $5,000+ in devices that may or may not work? Consulting would be fine but the devices are pretty expensive even with TRT. I have to wonder if iPhone apps or Tinnitus Tamer can be an effective solution.
Member- Feb 9, 2014
- 536
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2013
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Likely stress, anxiety, an antibiotic and nsaids
Lisa
I've only had T for a year now and only joined the site last week, so I haven't heard of all the treatment options. I did, however, get fitted with state-of-the-art hearing aids with programmable/targeted white noise generators that have been absolutely essential and effective (couldn't live without them). I got them from Nebraska Hearing Instruments (Omaha, NE).
Hope this helps...
Mark
Thanks, Mark. A couple of my tones compete with white noise, i.e. they get louder. I think it is the frequency of my t reacting to the similar frequency spectrum. So that would not work for me. But so glad it works for you. I think I may respond well to the music treatment though, being a musician. Just have to find a lot more out about it first, and talk to people who have actually used it.
I think it's a bad idea to keep a diary. Doing this means you are monitoring your tinnitus which in turn most likely means you are going to be more aware of it. It is better to go about your business normally and your awareness will diminish as time passes by. Habituation is a natural process although it may be possible to expedite this by using certain devices such as those for distraction/masking. Erik there are a few good books available including A Self Management Guide to the Ringing in Your Ears.... Henry/Wilson. If you can get hold of a copy it may be the best $100 or so that you have ever spent.
Like Magpie, I agree that keeping a diary might not be such a good idea. Why give tinnitus any more credit than it is due? Besides, trying to somehow "figure out" your tinnitus is an exercise likely doomed to failure. After all, the only thing predictable about tinnitus ... is its unpredictability!
Stephen Nagler
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,576
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
A article I found about NOT keeping a diary, and other helpful ideas for tinnitus. Hi @Dr. Nagler@: Does Dr. Steenerson run a helpful tinnitus clinic? I thought you might know him possibly? We have a tinnitus clinic here in MN, but I have not seen them yet, just talked to them on the phone so far. I did buy their Soundspace Sound Therapy Program which they no longer offer.
http://www.atlantaearclinic.com/tinnitus_to_do.htm
Tinnitus is perceived sound in the ear. Tinnitus is usually caused by damaged nerve endings in the inner ear hearing mechanism (cochlea). This is usually associated with hearing loss, but occasionally the hearing will be normal. If the Tinnitus is in one ear only or the hearing is asymmetrical, test should be done to rule-out inner ear benign tumors. Tinnitus that is not annoying and well tolerated should not be treated.
Treatment of Tinnitus is difficult. In our clinic we treat Tinnitus in 4 ways; electrical stimulation, medication, biofeedback and long term habituation therapy.
Electrical Stimulation involves treating the outside of the ear with a small electric current. Each treatment takes 1/2 hour per ear and 6 treatments are tried. Of 800 tinnitus patients treated with electrical stimulation at the Atlanta Ear Clinic, tinnitus was reduced in one half of the patients. Biofeedback training is typically used in conjunction with electrical stimulation. Biofeedback involves teaching the person with tinnitus to exert conscious control over the areas of the body which were thought to be outside of the control of the conscious mind. Instruments are used to sense and amplify impulses coming from body parts one wishes to alter. This information can be used by the person to modify and alter processes associated with tinnitus by relaxing muscles in the head and neck and increasing blood flow.
If electrical stimulation and biofeedback are not helpful, long term habituation therapy is recommended. This involves wearing low level noise generators in each ear 8 hours per day for 18 months and is obviously indicated for people annoyed by their Tinnitus that have failed other treatment interventions. TRT is successful in 80% of patients treated
- Apr 18, 2013
- 1,633
- Tinnitus Since
- 2003
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
Agree with the others, and I think the cost of the devices is ridiculous for what they are. All you need to do is find some speakers / headphones / earphones (whichever you prefer) and use any media player. If you have sounds that are uncompressed, or in FLAC or similar format, then you have the device.
The only thing then is to try and customise the sound therapy by finding sounds that work for you, those that naturally feel soothing and helpful.
I consider Ron Steenerson (Atlanta) to be a friend, but I am not impressed with the "science" behind electrostimulation, and I find the studies to be terribly lacking in quality.
If you live in Minnesota, perhaps you should think about seeing Paula Schwartz in Edina just outside Minneapolis. She is one of the three or four top tinnitus clinicians in the entire US, in my opinion.
Stephen Nagler
I was reading about Ron Steenerson, his method seems to be throw everything at you to see if it works including drugs. Sounds like that can be costly and not really targeting a method of relief. The whole electrostimulation concept is interesting but like you said, not much to back it up.
Between 1997 and 2002 I ran a tinnitus center in the US. Our patients were by and large quite satisfied, but we wanted to find out if we were really doing any good - specifically as far as TRT was concerned. So we did an internal review. (Back then there was no Neuromonics, but I suspect the same findings would hold using the Neuromonics Oasis with proper counseling.)...
... it turns out that the average length of time TRT patients in our clinic had suffered from tinnitus before starting TRT at the conclusion of which they had improved at least 70% was not two to four years. It wasn't even six or eight years. The average was 10.5 years! And three patients had suffered for more than 20 years before succeeding in TRT.
Hi Dr. Nagler, I have been wanting to ask someone this question here, and seems you might be the appropriate person:
During your time at your center, did you run across any tinnitus patients who had a prior history of stroke and subsequent area of brain death? I am one of those people, and am trying to figure out if this may be playing a role in my habituation. The damage is in the right frontal temporal lobe. While I initially had severe weakness in my left leg and hand, I eventually recovered and today have almost no noticeable deficits.
Anyway, I have started Neuromonics, as I felt I was habituating slowly. But its hard to say if my pace indeed was slow, given I am about nine months from tinnitus onset. And I am not sure what difference knowing brain death was affecting my habituation would make anyway, given there is no way for me to fix it.
Anyway, just curious. Thanks. And anyone else, feel free to chime in.
... it turns out that the average length of time TRT patients in our clinic had suffered from tinnitus before starting TRT at the conclusion of which they had improved at least 70% was not two to four years. It wasn't even six or eight years. The average was 10.5 years! And three patients had suffered for more than 20 years before succeeding in TRT.
Hi Dr. Nagler, I have been wanting to ask someone this question here, and seems you might be the appropriate person:
During your time at your center, did you run across any tinnitus patients who had a prior history of stroke and subsequent area of brain death? I am one of those people, and am trying to figure out if this may be playing a role in my habituation. The damage is in the right frontal temporal lobe. While I initially had severe weakness in my left leg and hand, I eventually recovered and today have almost no noticeable deficits.
Anyway, I have started Neuromonics, as I felt I was habituating slowly. But its hard to say if my pace indeed was slow, given I am about nine months from tinnitus onset. And I am not sure what difference knowing brain death was affecting my habituation would make anyway, given there is no way for me to fix it.
Anyway, just curious. Thanks. And anyone else, feel free to chime in.
So Micky... you were listening for almost six hours a day, every day, for three years? How did you pull that off? I know that you are supposed to listen from two to four hours daily. And I find that tough, given that you can't have a conversation or be on the phone (because it needs to be loud enough to cover your tinnitus), driving (at least its against the law in Florida to drive with headphones on or earbuds in both ears), watching TV or sleeping. Plus the fact that the headset isn't wireless makes it hard to do household chores with it on.
Also, am curious that you used it for three years. The program is for one year although, of course, you keep the device and use it whenever you like. If you felt it made no difference, why did you keep things going after the one-year mark?
Lisa, so sorry, I realize you PMed me about this earlier in the week about Neuromonics (which you will see referred to as NTT sometimes) and I haven't answered yet. I have been using the Oasis for two months and one week. It is hard for me to say if it is moving me faster toward habituation. Some days I think yes, others no. I will say that listening to the device calms me down when tinnitus ramps up my anxiety, as it does. But as you will see in my note to Micky above, I find it a bit of a pain to get in all the listening time, although I always manage the minimum. I work long hours and spend a lot of it on the phone, though.
The device has a neural stimulus programmed to match your tinnitus frequency, etc. It is wrapped around a mix of classical and new age music, so you don't notice the stimulus while listening.
My tinnitus profile: I am 58. I have T from barotrauma that came about on a long-distance plane flight last May (and probably was helped along by the fact that I had severe ongoing work stress for about three years). Have no history of noise exposure and only have very slight hearing loss, at very high frequencies. The tinnitus triggered a panic/anxiety reaction that I since have gotten pretty much under control, and take only very low doses of anxiety meds. My T is tonal, in both ears
You mentioned one thing that concerned me: that you need to get the device pronto while you are here in the states, as you are going back to the UK. One of the most important parts of the program is the counseling sessions with the audiologist that should be happening over one year. Who will be doing your counseling for you when you return home? I know that some clinics now are just selling you the device and handing it over. I personally don't think that's a good idea and you wont get as much value for the extensive cash you are going to put down. I went with a university-based provider, vs an ENT clinic that was much closer to me, specifically because I thought the staff was better and they seemed much more invested in the counseling end.
Of course, what everyone wants to know is: Is it working? That's the same question I asked people here at TT when I was considering NTT. For me, I think its too early to say, as they say it takes two to three months to notice any difference. I also will never know if any improvements I may have will be due to Neuromonics or the natural habituation that comes with time.
I decided to spend the $5,000 because, like many T patients, I wanted to try SOMETHING and this seemed like my best shot for now. I also considered doing the do-it-yourself sound therapies, like Audio Notch, but felt I was too electronically incompetent to pull it off. Plus I wanted the counseling and long-term access to an audiologist. But I do believe that some patients can do what Neuromonics does, for a lot less, with a quality headset and MP3 player.
Is it right for you? Can't say. I only will add: Choose wisely. Its a lot of money. And go with a quality professional provider. It seems like Neuromonics isn't being super careful on who they let sell their product, which is disappointing.
Oh, and Lisa, you asked if Neuromonics could make your T worse? I found a few anecdotal reports of such when doing my research before buying. But by in large: No. Your audiologist will make sure you are listening to your device at the proper volume.
Also, am curious that you used it for three years. The program is for one year although, of course, you keep the device and use it whenever you like. If you felt it made no difference, why did you keep things going after the one-year mark?
Lisa, so sorry, I realize you PMed me about this earlier in the week about Neuromonics (which you will see referred to as NTT sometimes) and I haven't answered yet. I have been using the Oasis for two months and one week. It is hard for me to say if it is moving me faster toward habituation. Some days I think yes, others no. I will say that listening to the device calms me down when tinnitus ramps up my anxiety, as it does. But as you will see in my note to Micky above, I find it a bit of a pain to get in all the listening time, although I always manage the minimum. I work long hours and spend a lot of it on the phone, though.
The device has a neural stimulus programmed to match your tinnitus frequency, etc. It is wrapped around a mix of classical and new age music, so you don't notice the stimulus while listening.
My tinnitus profile: I am 58. I have T from barotrauma that came about on a long-distance plane flight last May (and probably was helped along by the fact that I had severe ongoing work stress for about three years). Have no history of noise exposure and only have very slight hearing loss, at very high frequencies. The tinnitus triggered a panic/anxiety reaction that I since have gotten pretty much under control, and take only very low doses of anxiety meds. My T is tonal, in both ears
You mentioned one thing that concerned me: that you need to get the device pronto while you are here in the states, as you are going back to the UK. One of the most important parts of the program is the counseling sessions with the audiologist that should be happening over one year. Who will be doing your counseling for you when you return home? I know that some clinics now are just selling you the device and handing it over. I personally don't think that's a good idea and you wont get as much value for the extensive cash you are going to put down. I went with a university-based provider, vs an ENT clinic that was much closer to me, specifically because I thought the staff was better and they seemed much more invested in the counseling end.
Of course, what everyone wants to know is: Is it working? That's the same question I asked people here at TT when I was considering NTT. For me, I think its too early to say, as they say it takes two to three months to notice any difference. I also will never know if any improvements I may have will be due to Neuromonics or the natural habituation that comes with time.
I decided to spend the $5,000 because, like many T patients, I wanted to try SOMETHING and this seemed like my best shot for now. I also considered doing the do-it-yourself sound therapies, like Audio Notch, but felt I was too electronically incompetent to pull it off. Plus I wanted the counseling and long-term access to an audiologist. But I do believe that some patients can do what Neuromonics does, for a lot less, with a quality headset and MP3 player.
Is it right for you? Can't say. I only will add: Choose wisely. Its a lot of money. And go with a quality professional provider. It seems like Neuromonics isn't being super careful on who they let sell their product, which is disappointing.
Oh, and Lisa, you asked if Neuromonics could make your T worse? I found a few anecdotal reports of such when doing my research before buying. But by in large: No. Your audiologist will make sure you are listening to your device at the proper volume.
Thanks, Lady Di. Well, have since found out quite a bit of info on it. Do you have multi tones, Lady Di? Also is your tinnitus reactive in any way? Not quite sure what that means.
I found out that it helps people more without the following conditions: multi tone tinnitus, reactive tinnitus, severe hearing loss, devestation from tinnitus.
I seem to have all those except maybe for the severe hearing loss. Not quite sure what reactive tinnitus means. One of my most annoying tones competes against white noise, but then lowers immediately after the white noise stops. Another of my tones reacts to loud noise, then stays loud after the loud noise has stopped.
So difficult to find accurate info on any of this.
Cheers, Lady Di. Will keep my fingers crossed for you.
If I decide to use it, I will postpone my move, and go for the Oasis and counseling.
If it's not for me, I fly to the UK and move there in 2 months. I too suffer from barotrauma, and will be flying first time after t onset 3 months ago. Yikes! Feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I found out that it helps people more without the following conditions: multi tone tinnitus, reactive tinnitus, severe hearing loss, devestation from tinnitus.
I seem to have all those except maybe for the severe hearing loss. Not quite sure what reactive tinnitus means. One of my most annoying tones competes against white noise, but then lowers immediately after the white noise stops. Another of my tones reacts to loud noise, then stays loud after the loud noise has stopped.
So difficult to find accurate info on any of this.
Cheers, Lady Di. Will keep my fingers crossed for you.
If I decide to use it, I will postpone my move, and go for the Oasis and counseling.
If it's not for me, I fly to the UK and move there in 2 months. I too suffer from barotrauma, and will be flying first time after t onset 3 months ago. Yikes! Feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
lady Diana wrote.. Partly..
Hi Lady Diana.. I kept using the processor for the 3 years simply because i didn't see the point of throwing it in the bottom drawer just because it had not led up to my expectations.. It did cost an awful lot of money and i suppose i wanted my monies worth .. so i used the damn thing untill i wore it out .. Money down the drain.. But i was desperate..
Hi Lady Diana.. I kept using the processor for the 3 years simply because i didn't see the point of throwing it in the bottom drawer just because it had not led up to my expectations.. It did cost an awful lot of money and i suppose i wanted my monies worth .. so i used the damn thing untill i wore it out .. Money down the drain.. But i was desperate..
Micky, found out it does not work as well or those with multi tones, reactive tinnitus or those with severe hearing loss. Do you have any of those?
Lady Di, I am curious if you have any of those either. Especially the multi tones? I have multi tones.
Cheers.
Lady Di, I am curious if you have any of those either. Especially the multi tones? I have multi tones.
Cheers.
Thanks for answering my question, Micky. I guess at some point, your device can be just a super expensive masker. As I said, I do find that using it blocks my tinnitus.
For Lisa: I don't believe I have multi-tones. I do know that people with severe hearing loss can't do Neuromonics because they cant hear well enough for the therapy to be effective. "Reactive" tinnitus is that which ramps up when exposed to certain noises, even when those noises are not loud. That may be the case with you, given your white noise experience. As for "devastation from tinnitus:" not sure what that means. I would imagine most people are investigating NTT because they are disturbed by their tinnitus.
But part of the Neuromonics protocol is that you first are evaluated by an audiologist, who will determine if you are a good candidate. So I wouldn't worry about any of this. The evaluation will answer these questions for you.
And don't they have Neuromonics in the UK? I think Micky is from London. If you are interested in the therapy but want to return home, you should be able to find a good provider there.
As for your flight: Don't worry. I know we already talked about this in another post. Just take advance precautions and you should be fine.
For Lisa: I don't believe I have multi-tones. I do know that people with severe hearing loss can't do Neuromonics because they cant hear well enough for the therapy to be effective. "Reactive" tinnitus is that which ramps up when exposed to certain noises, even when those noises are not loud. That may be the case with you, given your white noise experience. As for "devastation from tinnitus:" not sure what that means. I would imagine most people are investigating NTT because they are disturbed by their tinnitus.
But part of the Neuromonics protocol is that you first are evaluated by an audiologist, who will determine if you are a good candidate. So I wouldn't worry about any of this. The evaluation will answer these questions for you.
And don't they have Neuromonics in the UK? I think Micky is from London. If you are interested in the therapy but want to return home, you should be able to find a good provider there.
As for your flight: Don't worry. I know we already talked about this in another post. Just take advance precautions and you should be fine.
Hiya Lisa .. I do have high frequency hearing loss but other than that i have pretty good hearing thankfully.. I don't have multi tones either.. But i do have a constant high pitched Shhhhhhhhh.. Exactly the same as a white noise generator.. Neuromonics is not a cure in any way .. It may lessen the Tinnitus threat.. But that's about all it will do long term.. Micky
I have high frequency hearing loss in the ear with T, I used Neuromonics and it helped me get past the T staring me down every second of every day. I realized I had to break the cycle, and it helped, and I really think our state of mind drives the T, sad, unsettled, depressed, tired, hung over, (not all at once) it seems louder, happy, having fun, busy, it seems lower, b/c the plasticity of the brain moves away from feeding the T, for the loss of hearing. We all have to figure out our own T, and try to find a treatment. I hope one day science can find a cure, but until then we all must try to live what life we were given.... IMO....
Interesting. So you just had the device? No counseling or follow-up? Or were you living Down Under then?
I really am surprised there are is no Neuromonics in the UK, given it seems like your country is doing a better job on tinnitus awareness than the states.
Oh, and I agree that Neuromonics isnt going to "cure" your T. Even the company is pretty upfront about that. It's just designed to lessen how bothered you are by your tinnitus -- and has varying degrees of success, according to the individual. No guarantees.
Hey Piper, I agree with you that our tinnitus loudness and perception can have a lot do with our mood, immediate environment and general health.
Wanted to ask: About how many months into NTT would you say you noticed a difference in your tinnitus perception and disturbance? Of course, everyone is different...
Wanted to ask: About how many months into NTT would you say you noticed a difference in your tinnitus perception and disturbance? Of course, everyone is different...
It took four months of constant use, daily, and also did a lot of soul searching, in the sense, I had to get past the idea T is not terminal, but its never ending, but I had to get to the point I could live with it, in a good way. The treatment allowed me to find a path to deal with it, and also talk to heath care officials for feed back. I really think we will naturally habituate.... it may take a year, 2, 3 or 5, some people may never really habituate, but I think everyone gets better, but some people have it more bothersome than others. I loved quiet time, and hated the fact I lost it.. but now I think of the noise and a friend that reminds me I am alive...
Thanks for the info, Piper. Piper, did you have the one t tone when using the device, or multi tones? Cheers.
Lady Di, that is the dilemma I am facing. No Neuromonics in the UK. Plus my audio eval is not until April 3. My move date is May 7th, so trying to find as much info as I can write now on it. Micky must have purchased the Sanctuary which has 4 presents and not custom tailored to the individual, plus no therapy with it. I would be looking at the Oasis.
The below link has proven helpful in my research. Notice one tier is benefited more than another tier for the treatment. Seems you fit the tier it helps most
http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/detalhe_artigo.asp?id=479
Lady Di, that is the dilemma I am facing. No Neuromonics in the UK. Plus my audio eval is not until April 3. My move date is May 7th, so trying to find as much info as I can write now on it. Micky must have purchased the Sanctuary which has 4 presents and not custom tailored to the individual, plus no therapy with it. I would be looking at the Oasis.
The below link has proven helpful in my research. Notice one tier is benefited more than another tier for the treatment. Seems you fit the tier it helps most
http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/detalhe_artigo.asp?id=479
It took four months of constant use, daily, and also did a lot of soul searching, in the sense, I had to get past the idea T is not terminal, but its never ending, but I had to get to the point I could live with it, in a good way. The treatment allowed me to find a path to deal with it, and also talk to heath care officials for feed back. I really think we will naturally habituate.... it may take a year, 2, 3 or 5, some people may never really habituate, but I think everyone gets better, but some people have it more bothersome than others. I loved quiet time, and hated the fact I lost it.. but now I think of the noise and a friend that reminds me I am alive...
I really appreciate your perspective, Piper. Thank you so much.
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