Neuromonics

[Micky]

Lisa wrote...

Micky must have purchased the Sanctuary which has 4 presents and not custom tailored to the individual, plus no therapy with it. I would be looking at the Oasis

Lisa .. Yes it was the Sanctuary unit.. But was custom tailored to my hearing loss and tinnitus volume.. I did have some therapy.. But to be honest the counciling often made me feel worse.. The Oasis is virtually the same but more streamlined and a nicer looking unit.. As far as i know the same 4 tracks playing over and over again are all ya get.. As far as the councilling goes and my take on it .. That is just my perspective.. IM not sure why it made me feel worse.. Guess i didn't like talking about it.. I still have my sanctuary unit but its seen better days as i wore the thing out .. I wouldn't use it again though even if it were repairable.. My advice for what its worth is to buy yourself a good quality mp3 player then download some digitally enhanced tinnitus masking sounds like running water.. Bird songs.. Ocean sounds of the sea.. Rain falling.. Save yourself 5000 .. Good luck Lisa whatever you decide... Micky

 

[Lisa88]

Hi Mickey, I was told the Sanctuary has 4 presents, and if the patient falls within one of those presets, great. That is the one they choose for hm/her. If you have one tone only and mild to moderate hearing loss, you may have fallen pretty close in one of those. Plus the Oasis is set to a two phase process. First phase with the embedded signal, second phase with the embedded signal dulled out (they reset the device). I have multi tones going on. Not sure I am going to qualify for the success rate they have been seeing with the Oasis. Plus two of my tones compete with white noise. Grrrr. Sorry it didn't work for you, Micky. Sounds you would have been a great candidate according to that above study link. Thanks for all the info.

 

[Piper the great]

Thanks for the info, Piper. Piper, did you have the one t tone when using the device, or multi tones? Cheers.
Lady Di, that is the dilemma I am facing. No Neuromonics in the UK. Plus my audio eval is not until April 3. My move date is May 7th, so trying to find as much info as I can write now on it. Micky must have purchased the Sanctuary which has 4 presents and not custom tailored to the individual, plus no therapy with it. I would be looking at the Oasis.
The below link has proven helpful in my research. Notice one tier is benefited more than another tier for the treatment. Seems you fit the tier it helps most
http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/detalhe_artigo.asp?id=479

It seemed to be multi tones/sounds.. first loud RING, and two hisses that seemed to have their own pattern.. of up and down.. but now just a lower level ring....I used the Oasis....

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Hi Dr. Nagler, I have been wanting to ask someone this question here, and seems you might be the appropriate person:

During your time at your center, did you run across any tinnitus patients who had a prior history of stroke and subsequent area of brain death? I am one of those people, and am trying to figure out if this may be playing a role in my habituation. The damage is in the right frontal temporal lobe. While I initially had severe weakness in my left leg and hand, I eventually recovered and today have almost no noticeable deficits.

Anyway, I have started Neuromonics, as I felt I was habituating slowly. But its hard to say if my pace indeed was slow, given I am about nine months from tinnitus onset. And I am not sure what difference knowing brain death was affecting my habituation would make anyway, given there is no way for me to fix it.

Anyway, just curious. Thanks. And anyone else, feel free to chime in.

Folks with Lyme Disease and certain other CNS disorders can have a more difficult time of it, but to the best of my knowledge stroke victims who have recovered (or largely recovered) from their deficits seem to do fine for the most part.

My overall impression regarding barriers to habituation in general have to do with a lack of understanding of the process and - especially where Neuromonics is concerned - inadequate counseling.

Hope this helps more than confuses.

Stephen Nagler

 

[DebInAustralia]

can someone please explain the difference between neuromonics and audionotch?

 

[LadyDi]

Folks with Lyme Disease and certain other CNS disorders can have a more difficult time of it, but to the best of my knowledge stroke victims who have recovered (or largely recovered) from their deficits seem to do fine for the most part.

My overall impression regarding barriers to habituation in general have to do with a lack of understanding of the process and - especially where Neuromonics is concerned - inadequate counseling.

Hope this helps more than confuses.

Stephen Nagler

I appreciate your response, thanks. Am just more curious than anything. I don't want to get all caught up in chasing down if the stroke is an issue, given it won't make any difference in how to approach the problem. It's like getting fixated on what caused your tinnitus, if there is no obvious answer.

And I agree regarding Neuromonics and counseling. But I do think the counseling in my program is fine. Just think am impatient.

 

[Mark McDill]

Greetings all:

Well, I finally had my long-awaited tinnitus evaluation with a clinical audiologist yesterday. I feel like I am moving more down the "acceptance-let's manage it" path now vs. the "denial-let's concentrate on what caused it" path. My anxiety/panic did kick in some, but much more under control than it was three weeks ago. My new guided meditation CDs sure do help!

Anyway: I tested "severe" on the TFI inventory (no surprise there). I do have a little hearing loss on high frequencies, which lead the audiologist to believe there may be some inner ear hair damage, but no loss near enough to require a hearing aid. The audiologist did mention some test results on tone matching/loudness that I am going to ask about here under another post later, as I don't quite understand them. Aud said she was happy to answer any follow up questions, and I was pleased with her professionalism and compassion. She did her initial TRT training under Dr. P years ago.

Anyway, I was offered two options beyond trying to do it myself with an MP3 player:
Neuromonics Oasis: $5,900 (ouch). Device is not returnable.
Widex Zen (even though I don't have a hearing problem): $3,200. Most of my investment can be recovered within 60 days if I am not satisfied.

These prices indeed are outrageous. But I do feel I would benefit, as the aud agreed, as I will feel I am doing something to help myself. I still am on very very low doses of alprazolam, which isn't ideal, but the aud said were low enough that it still would be effective. There was no high pressure to buy, though. The prices include rechecks and counseling sessions.

So: What are members experiences here with these devices? I have already read some of the many posts on here, and see the opinions are mixed. I agree the prices are absurd. But I am willing to pay it if it helps.

Re. the Widex: I worry that the "chimes" would make me nuts, as others here have reported. And I have to wear them all day, versus 2-4 hours for Neuromonics. And I don't need a hearing aid. I also have seen no research discussing Widex's success diminishing tinnitus perception in people without a hearing problem. But the Widex is more portable, less money.

Dang, sorry for the long post. Advice greatly appreciated. You guys rock.
LadyDi

LadyDi
Sounds like you are on a good track; wished I had made some of these smart moves (seeing aud at onset) when my T came on last year.

I don't have any experience with the devices you are talking about; however, I do have the Starky/Audibell brand hearing aids from Nebraska Hearing Instruments (Omaha, NE) with white noise generators (they are programmable to target/mask my specific T). They are awesome; I would not have done nearly as well without them (life savers).

I agree with all on this site -- habituation is the end goal (that's the win); what path you take to get there is a very individual choice; Nebraska Hearing Instruments and Starky/Audibell got me there (whew).

Hope this helps.

Mark

 

[DebInAustralia]

Ok, I am no longer using the isuppress app on my ipod, I am now going with something new and the total opposite of what I was doing originally which is what my audiologist suggested as it just wasn't working. I would suggest for those of you that want to give it a go that you try notched sound therapy, after just one week (this is what the developers of the website claim) listening will reduce the perceived volume of your T, and by god it actually worked (for me), the critical part is finding your frequency, I have now learnt that I have three different frequencies, one is at 13khz, the other around 10khz and the 3rd is just under 4khz, the most annoying is the 13khz. I listen to the notched white noise. For those with T under 8khz, you can listen to your own notched music or just white noise.

Today after 6 weeks of listening, generally at only 1 hour a day, this can be broken into 3 x 20 minute sessions, the high pitch 13khz is finally disappearing although the other less annoying pitched frequencies are now more noticeable, so I will start to work on those now. There is a joining fee but its not that expensive,its way less than the cost of a specialist that cant help you anyway (in my experience). The website that I use is at:

Tinnitus Treatment Sound Therapy - AudioNotch | AudioNotch

There is lots of info on the website, follow the instructions, and be patient, things are finally starting to change for me, after listening your T will sound louder, but this quietens down after a few hours so don't listen too close to bed time.

To help identify your frequency accurately user their tuner, I use good quality ear buds with earmuffs on, this works very well. Anyway follow the instructions and read the Q&A information. Remember this treatment takes time and a positive attitude, sometimes it may seem like it gets worse over a week of listening, and then suddenly you have a really good day, then a bad one again, then there are moments when you think hang on a sec my T is not that noticeable, its up and down, but very very slowly its starting to change for me. Hope this is of value to some of you.....!! All the very best to you all and please post back here, so that others (and I) can learn from your experience too. I will post again in another month with an update.

Do you mind me asking who your audiologist is? i am considering seeing a different one..thanks

 

[Piper the great]

I paid the money and did the treatment, its not only the device you pay for but the audiologist time and time in the booth.. the device is 3500 dollars anything else goes to the clinic. I got benefit out of it, I tried other sound devices and didn't like it. I think it speeds habituation... the sound is based on your hearing loss. It sounds like a lot of money, but when your willing to blew your pumpkin off, its really cheap... or that is the way I feel.. but everyone has to deal with their T. I think T is similar, but different in everyone. It got me through a tough time, and I have no regrets. I think you can achieve the same results with an MP# player, I would choose classical music. My 2 cents...

 

[Grace]

Neuromoics kinda reminds me like when ive been on the internet and am reading an article or just something really interesting and im so into it and have music playin on my itunes.. I remember goin through 5 or 6 songs not even hearing them cause i was sooo focused on reading.. And i would go back to the songs i missed ( or just wasnt paying attention so i didnt hear it) and replayed them. So i guess i proved to myself that i
Am able to ignor sounds without even noticing it and even fairly loud music! So i would deff try this if my t ever got real bad that i needed help to habuitate .

 

[LadyDi]

LadyDi
I don't have any experience with the devices you are talking about; however, I do have the Starky/Audibell brand hearing aids from Nebraska Hearing Instruments (Omaha, NE) with white noise generators (they are programmable to target/mask my specific T). They are awesome; I would not have done nearly as well without them (life savers).

I agree with all on this site -- habituation is the end goal (that's the win); what path you take to get there is a very individual choice; Nebraska Hearing Instruments and Starky/Audibell got me there (whew).
Hope this helps.

Mark

Hey @Mark McDill, how are you?

I did strongly consider the Widex hearing aid/masker along with the Neuromonics, which sounds fairly similar to what you are using. In fact, one audiologist said she thought the Widex was a better choice for me. I do well with masking sounds, plus they are wireless and fit into your ear. Dealing with the Neuromonics device and headset is kind of a pain.

But I though I would habituate faster with Neuromonics, vs. straight masking. We will see. If ultimately Neuromonics doesn't give me the results I want, I would be interested in what you are using. However, I have only very slight hearing loss, at very high frequencies, so I don't need a hearing aid per se. Is that true for you, too?

BTW: I saw you are/were stationed at Offutt AFB, and are/were with the SAC. I spent five years of my childhood in the Omaha suburb of Prairie Lane, very near Offutt. Remember watching the SAC fighters going overhead, and a few times hearing them break the sound barrier.

 

[Mark McDill]

Hey @Mark McDill, how are you?

I did strongly consider the Widex hearing aid/masker along with the Neuromonics, which sounds fairly similar to what you are using. In fact, one audiologist said she thought the Widex was a better choice for me. I do well with masking sounds, plus they are wireless and fit into your ear. Dealing with the Neuromonics device and headset is kind of a pain.

But I though I would habituate faster with Neuromonics, vs. straight masking. We will see. If ultimately Neuromonics doesn't give me the results I want, I would be interested in what you are using. However, I have only very slight hearing loss, at very high frequencies, so I don't need a hearing aid per se. Is that true for you, too?

BTW: I saw you are/were stationed at Offutt AFB, and are/were with the SAC. I spent five years of my childhood in the Omaha suburb of Prairie Lane, very near Offutt. Remember watching the SAC fighters going overhead, and a few times hearing them break the sound barrier.

LadyDi
Sorry I haven't answered back, I had to go to DC for a few days

You know, the more I learn from this site and from the wise-heads in the T world, the more I'm inclined to agree with you. T is such an individual thing (can't think of anything more subjective) and at the end of the day it is all about habituation; I would go the route that gets you there best (regarding comfort and cost).

I was such a wreck after four weeks of T that I did a 'crazed' Google search and basically stumbled onto these things. I was very ignorant about T (except the part where they say there's no cure) and, furthermore I was ignorant about these kinds of devices. Fortunately, they have worked very well for me (so I personally think they are great). I specifically liked the fact I could adjust the white noise until my specific T was masked; but I also like that I can program four different channels for various situations/environments.

I do have moderate/significant hearing loss in my left ear (in the high pitched range -- that's where my T lives); so, I'm going with the hearing aids. My audiologist says I need to keep that range energized/excited.

Yup, still here at Offutt AFB; it's funny cause I used to be a 'SAC trained killer' stationed in Ft. Worth, Oklahoma, and Missouri back in the 80s/90s and now I walk down the halls at work and I still see old SAC
paraphernalia here and there (some things never die). We live in Papillion now (Lake Wood Villages to be specific)

Mark

 

[Lisa88]

Still considering Neuromonics. My most annoying t is at around 160hz. But the broadband noise apparently only goes down to 250hz. Well, I get different reports about that depending on who I talk to.
Lady Di and Piper, do you know the name of that first classical song they have on there? I have heard it a couple of times now in office. Cheers.

 

[LadyDi]

Wow, @Lisa88, that is a low-pitched T. I am way at the other end. Not sure about the broadband range, but an audiologist certified by Neuromonics should be able to tell you.

And I don't know the exact name of the tune you are referencing. But funny... there is a piece about three-quarters of the way through the two classical tracks that I love (its primarily violin and oboe). I have been wanting to ask my audiologist if she knows the name of it.

 

[Lisa88]

Hi @LadyDi. Yes, the range of my most annoying frequency starts that low. I phoned Australia's Neuromonics main guy. He said the audiologists can only input as low as 250hz. But then an audiologist says it goes down to 125hz. As I understand it, the broadband noise is supposed to cater to 1. your specific hearing loss and 2. your t frequency. Feel a bit skeptical doing it if it doesn't even cover my most annoying frequency. I have about 5 frequencies altogether, but the most annoying one is low. May just get the Sanctuary device and take it to the UK with me, then get separate counseling over in the UK at the London Tinnitus Clinic. Only thing is, they then can't implement the phase 2 on that device, i.e. taking out the broadband/white noise embedded signal. I do think Neuromonics is a good fit for me in terms of masking my t with music. At the moment, 3.5 months in, I am constantly monitoring it and disturbed by it. Like you, I would feel I am doing something positive in at least distracting me from my t.

 

[Lisa88]

p.s. It should go below 250hz, as that is really not that low - Around middle C on a keyboard.

 

[Lisa88]

Here is an experience by our own Jim:





Also, this young woman has experience with Neuromonics. Calin posted a thread about her here. Watch the videos here.

@Markku , Thanks for this post. Do you know how long after onset Jim started his Neuromonics treatment? I am thinking the sooner the better re plastic changes in the brain. Cheers Markku! Lisa

 

[Markku]

@Markku , Thanks for this post. Do you know how long after onset Jim started his Neuromonics treatment? I am thinking the sooner the better re plastic changes in the brain. Cheers Markku! Lisa

He started his Neuromonics treatment in January 2010, and he had had tinnitus since April 2007.

 

[demi]

Read Dr. Nagler's review of Neuromonics vs TRT here ≫.

What is the difference?

Since my H seems to be worsening and T becoming for disruptive, I have decided to get some formal help. The thing is the TRT specialist here has a waiting list because she is going through her own health problems...but I was referred by her office to another women here who does Neuromonics. I just was wondering what is the real difference?

 

[demi]

anyone?

 

[Grace]

Im gonna guess that trt has the same basic concept of neuromonics meaning a person is going to face to face help you to habuitate to your T and prob even talk about your worries and how to get over it where neuromonics is just a mp3 player that you listen to for some hours in the day and it trains your brain that way but i would go for trt cause you can actually talk to someone about your T and idk id feel alot better being able to talk to someone rather then spending money on neuromonics that you could probably just make your own version of it for cheaper.

 

[WestCoastGirl85]

I have a video about neuromonics on my youtube channel. search mylifewithtinnitus i hope it helps

 

[Lisa88]

@WestCoastGirl85 , did it help you? Just watched your videos, and the update did not tell us if it actually was helping. Cheers.

 

[jazz]

What is the difference?

@

@demi Hello!

They are probably both equally effective if you have a good practitioner. There was a recent study conducted by the Cleveland Clinic that compared in-ear sound generators (such as those used in TRT therapy) with Neuromonics. Here is a link to a discussion on TT:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/neuromonics.1378/ See note #4 by Markku on the study.

Both use a type of sound therapy, but they are very different. TRT uses white noise; Neuromonics uses spectrally modified music. TRT also requires you to wear the noise generators all the time; this is to help your brain learn to ignore your tinnitus signal. Neuromonics requires you to listen to music for several hours a day. Neuromonics also has several different devices, based on your particular needs. The original version is called Oasis; but they now also have a Sanctuary and Haven device. Here's a company link:

http://neuromonics.com/

Both TRT and Neuromonics--as well as other therapies--focus primarily on your reaction to your tinnitus. As that reaction changes from annoyance to disinterest, your noise level should be reduced or sometimes eliminated (unless you purposely look for it). Of course, there's no guarantee how much your noise will be reduced; that's why its important to find someone who is skilled in whatever therapy you use. Please also know it takes quite a while (depending on the therapy) for your brain to learn to ignore your tinnitus. Plan on devoting six months to a year or more.

I believe @LadyDi is also currently using Neuromonics so you might question her. And Dr. Nagler is an expert in TRT. Other therapies that help with tinnitus and hyperacusis include CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and mindfulness. Of the two, I prefer CBT since it has several clinical studies that attest to the therapy's effectiveness for tinnitus annoyance.

And here are two articles on Neuromonics from an audiologist's perspective that you might find interesting:

http://www.audiologyonline.com/articles/clinician-s-perspective-neuromonics-tinnitus-11555

http://www.audiologyonline.com/ask-the-experts/what-advantages-neuromonics-tinnitus-treatment-11646

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Neuromonics v TRT ...

Will respond on the Doctors' Corner in a few days. See "PREPARING AN ANSWER" at Forums > Support > Doctors' Corner > Dr. Stephen Nagler.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Grace]

this has been mentions prob tons on here but about how much is TRT? I have prob one of the best insurance policies out there so was wondering if it would cover it. Not looking to do trt as of now cause my T is real mild and doesnt bother me but for some reason in a few years it spikes i would deff want to do trt.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

this has been mentions prob tons on here but about how much is TRT?

Costs vary from clinician to clinician. Average all-encompassing cost to patient for Neuromonics including evaluation, device, counseling, and follow-up is roughly $5500-$6000. For TRT it is roughly $3800-$4100. If cost is a factor for you, best bet would be to ask the clinician who will be administering the treatment in question. And so you can be comparing apples to apples, my advice would be to be sure to ask for an all-encompassing cost for the entire treatment program.

Regarding insurance coverage, insurance is a business - and any benefit to you, the consumer, from your interaction with an insurance company, no matter how "good" your policy might be, is strictly a coincidental byproduct of that company's true mission, which is its profit and loss statement. Please do not for one moment fool yourself into thinking otherwise. So even the "best" policies typically do not cover tinnitus - because they can get away with it!

Stephen Nagler

 

[Micky]

So that's TRT. @ 4000 Bucks
and Neuromonics @6000 Bucks
... What an insult to a desperate suffer esp as at the end of both courses the patient will Still have damn Tinnitus..

 

[demi]

Why is there such a price difference?

 

[Dr. Nagler]

So that's TRT. @ 4000 Bucks
and Neuromonics @6000 Bucks
... What an insult to a desperate suffer esp as at the end of both courses the patient will Still have damn Tinnitus..

Interesting philosophy.

It seems to me that the real insult would be to not give credit to the patient for having the intelligence to understand that having tinnitus but not suffering is far better than having tinnitus and suffering.

Stephen Nagler