Neurotec — Rosa Canina: Study-Backed Compound for Tinnitus Relief or a Scam?

[Furetto]

Hello all,

I received a newsletter from Tinnitus Treatment Report, which looked to me like a legitimate website. Among various articles, there was one quoting a double-blind study of an herbal compound that reduced tinnitus.

They refer to this study:

• Therapeutic effects of Rosa canina, Urtica dioica and Tanacetum vulgare herbal combination in treatment of tinnitus symptoms: A double-blind randomised clinical trial

Other references:

• The medicinal chemistry of Urtica dioica L.: from preliminary evidence to clinical studies supporting its neuroprotective activity
• Easing the Burden of Tinnitus: A Narrative Review for Exploring Effective Pharmacological Strategies

I was about to give it a try, but for me there are red flags:

1. They use an urgency wording: "Important: Inventory from this small-scale initial production run remains available (as of 9/13/2024 2:49pm) and is shipped directly from the TG Labs, Inc. (R&D lab/manufacturing) facility in Colorado within 1-2 business days."
   
   
2. The only product available on the suspiciously named "Urgent Research Store" is this formulation.
   
   
3. The contact information at the bottom of the page is indeed the same entity, "Urgent Research, LLC."

I was one step from ordering, but then I became suspicious. There is another thread on Tinnitus Talk of someone who bought an Iranian version of the same product with the same composition, but they stopped after 15 days without further updates.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Bhaveen]

Oh man, I also got this email. I was going to buy it, but I am taking a host of other things at the moment so I don't want to mix anything up.

I am kind of thinking there's only one way to find out...

 

[Vadimus]

I am the person who took the Iranian drug for two weeks. Since February, I have not decided to try the treatment again, although I currently have six jars of the drug at home (I asked several friends to bring it from Iran at the same time). After taking this drug, I also took Nettle (Urtica dioica) and Rosehip (Rosa canina) in various dosages, which I purchased from a popular online supplement store.

While taking the Iranian drug, my sleep improved. Later, I noticed that when I took only Nettle, my sleep was significantly better. However, as I mentioned in the thread about the Iranian product, I did not notice any improvement in my tinnitus after two weeks of use (perhaps I should have taken it for a longer period).

Important note: About a month after I stopped taking the Iranian drug, while I was still only taking nettle, I developed a new symptom related to my visual snow—an intense increase in brightness when exposed to light. It might be photophobia, but I can't say that it causes pain. It just feels as though the brightness has been turned up by 50%. This symptom has persisted since then. I can't say for certain what caused this symptom, but the timing coincided exactly with when I was taking these supplements. I took Nettle in doses ranging from 150 mg to 900 mg at a time.

I would also like to mention that while I was taking Nettle and Rosehip, I ordered Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare) separately. After taking it, I noticed a worsening of the mental fog I was experiencing. It's possible that the Tansy in the Iranian formula could lead to negative side effects, as it is toxic in large doses, banned in many countries, and known for its hallucinogenic properties. This is just my personal experience, and others may have different reactions. Perhaps those who do not experience visual snow or mental clarity issues might want to try this treatment. I hope this information is helpful.

As for the drug mentioned in the Tinnitus Treatment Report newsletter, I cannot comment on it. I have been subscribed to it for many years and often find the information useful. I believe the creator of the newsletter decided to develop a drug based on the Iranian study and is conducting an unofficial clinical trial.

 

[Furetto]

Oh man, I also got this email. I was going to buy it, but I am taking a host of other things at the moment so I don't want to mix anything up.

I am kind of thinking there's only one way to find out...

Same here, but I became very suspicious of the wording — phrases like "small batch!!!" and "still available!!!" along with two links to the shop, and then it's sold by the same website. I'll wait to hear opinions from the more experienced members.

 

[marqualler]

This definitely seems like a scam. The PubMed article itself is also pretty light on details.

 

[Nick47]

No plant extract will provide a significant benefit for tinnitus.

 

[2noist]

No plant extract will provide a significant benefit for tinnitus.

I agree. I'm disappointed to see this being promoted in this way. I wouldn't spend any money on it.

 

[Furetto]

However, as I mentioned in the thread about the Iranian product, I did not notice any improvement in my tinnitus after two weeks of use (perhaps I should have taken it for a longer period).

Thanks for your contribution.

It's important to note that most food supplements are ineffective if taken for less than three months, regardless of the condition. Since you have a large supply of this supplement, perhaps you could share it with someone else who has tinnitus, and they could report their results monthly for at least three months. This aligns with the duration of the study it's based on. I might also be interested in buying it from you, as the prices at the Urgent Research Store are outrageously high.

It seems you have several other conditions besides tinnitus, such as brain fog and visual snow. It might be more effective to have someone with only tinnitus test it.

P.S. Regarding your other conditions, have you checked your neck for disc bulges or compressed nerves?

 

[Alberte]

Thanks for your contribution.

It's important to note that most food supplements are ineffective if taken for less than three months, regardless of the condition. Since you have a large supply of this supplement, perhaps you could share it with someone else who has tinnitus, and they could report their results monthly for at least three months. This aligns with the duration of the study it's based on. I might also be interested in buying it from you, as the prices at the Urgent Research Store are outrageously high.

It seems you have several other conditions besides tinnitus, such as brain fog and visual snow. It might be more effective to have someone with only tinnitus test it.

P.S. Regarding your other conditions, have you checked your neck for disc bulges or compressed nerves?

I agree. The product is outrageously expensive.

 

[Vadimus]

Thanks for your contribution.

It's important to note that most food supplements are ineffective if taken for less than three months, regardless of the condition. Since you have a large supply of this supplement, perhaps you could share it with someone else who has tinnitus, and they could report their results monthly for at least three months. This aligns with the duration of the study it's based on. I might also be interested in buying it from you, as the prices at the Urgent Research Store are outrageously high.

It seems you have several other conditions besides tinnitus, such as brain fog and visual snow. It might be more effective to have someone with only tinnitus test it.

P.S. Regarding your other conditions, have you checked your neck for disc bulges or compressed nerves?

I recently underwent a series of tests, and fortunately, my neck is fine, with nothing abnormal showing on the MRI. The issue likely stems from my brain, possibly as a result of taking benzodiazepines and antidepressants.

If it's not a problem on your end, I could send the medication for free. However, I would need to confirm if I am allowed to ship such a package from my country.

I currently have six packs, each containing 60 capsules. To replicate the conditions of the clinical trial, one person would need three packs, which is enough for three months. I opened one pack and took two tablets a day for two weeks, so I still have five unopened packs. I live in Azerbaijan, where we have international shipping services like UPS and DHL.

It's important to consider that Iran doesn't have the best relations with many countries. You should verify whether you can legally receive products from Iran in your country.

I find it odd that the price of the drug mentioned in the newsletter is so high. The Neurotec that was brought to me from Iran costs almost nothing—each package was between $1 and $2. In fact, the people who brought it to me didn't charge me at all.

From what I understand, this drug is quite common in Iran and is sold in nearly every pharmacy. If you search "Neurotec Arvand" on Google, you will find many results linking to Iranian online pharmacies.

 

[Furetto]

I recently underwent a series of tests, and fortunately, my neck is fine, with nothing abnormal showing on the MRI. The issue likely stems from my brain, possibly as a result of taking benzodiazepines and antidepressants.

If it's not a problem on your end, I could send the medication for free. However, I would need to confirm if I am allowed to ship such a package from my country.

I currently have six packs, each containing 60 capsules. To replicate the conditions of the clinical trial, one person would need three packs, which is enough for three months. I opened one pack and took two tablets a day for two weeks, so I still have five unopened packs. I live in Azerbaijan, where we have international shipping services like UPS and DHL.

It's important to consider that Iran doesn't have the best relations with many countries. You should verify whether you can legally receive products from Iran in your country.

I find it odd that the price of the drug mentioned in the newsletter is so high. The Neurotec that was brought to me from Iran costs almost nothing—each package was between $1 and $2. In fact, the people who brought it to me didn't charge me at all.

From what I understand, this drug is quite common in Iran and is sold in nearly every pharmacy. If you search "Neurotec Arvand" on Google, you will find many results linking to Iranian online pharmacies.

Hello, and thank you for your kindness. In Italy, we have no issues receiving food supplements from abroad, including from Iran. It would only be a problem if it were a regulated drug, but some herbs pose absolutely no issue.

If you're willing to send them over for free, I'd at least like to cover your shipping costs.

 

[urgentresearch]

Friends,

I have been following this thread since last Saturday—carefully reflecting on all the excellent points that have been brought up, and... more importantly, adding all of you dissenting voices to my "Enemies of the Treatment Report" list.

Teasing, of course. (There is no such list—yet!)

But I have been taking in all of these comments. I'm late to the party, but hope to answer any and all questions that people might have. Especially the critical ones. More about those in a second.

Btw, I would have jumped into this thread sooner, but first wanted to get the green light from Hazel and Markku. To make sure I could participate in a way that was not inadvertently violating any rules. We had a Zoom chat last week and they gave me the OK... encouraging me to participate in the discussion in an authentic way, like I have done in the past, and to follow the forum rules.

So!

I will start by saying... yup, I pretty much agree with everything that has been said here so far. Couple exceptions. The main one being the "suspiciously named store" remark—however, to be fair, my objection to that label is likely rooted in my equally suspicious username.

But for the recurring themes like the outrageous price, the questionable use of urgency and scarcity innuendo, the integrity of the trial or available details, and so on...

I'll address each of those points and try to do it in a way that is as specific and transparent as I can. Which I failed to do in some of the hurried project updates piggybacking on recent issues.

I also thought this might be a good place to share/"leak" a bunch of documents related to manufacturing and a non-murky overview of the situation. I regret using non-concrete terms around the batch size and small scale production, because it's not much different than the scarcity mongering that actual scams and illegitimate products use, and it's not aligned with how I want to share this with people.

I'll also reply in a separate comment, on the matter of price. I will share some numbers. But I will just say, for now, that I agree. It's outrageously expensive and the production run + number of tests and methods that needed to be developed to *actually* replicate the trial... contributed to a very high cost per bottle. So high, that we lost money on a number of international orders because I was adament about free shipping/included. Oops lol. But I'm actually just happy to get it into people's hands who, for their own reasons, wanted to try it.

I get a lot of emails asking if it's worth a shot. I can't answer that. But I do hope I can at least share enough documentation here and be transparent that it becomes clear... it's a legitimate chance. It's a true replication of the trial capsules and the Neurotec, and it's standardized. (Documentation will support that, as terms like "standardized" don't really mean anything without defining what standardized means, and providing evidence that backs up the use of that term.) IN OTHER WORDS... Not a crooked game of ring toss when the traveling carnival is in town... or the claw machine game with the slippery grip.

More comments and documents to follow.

Ask me anything about this, btw... and do call me out if any of my answers are indirect or unambiguous.
I wish I did a better job sharing this whole endeavor from day 1, but would appreciate any help in prompting me to talk and share about this in a way that remedies the murkiness and suspicion-inducing word choices of late.

<3

 

[Alberte]

Hello @urgentresearch!

Have you received any feedback from buyers of your product? If so, could you please share it?

 

[Furetto]

Friends,

I have been following this thread since last Saturday—carefully reflecting on all the excellent points that have been brought up, and... more importantly, adding all of you dissenting voices to my "Enemies of the Treatment Report" list.

Teasing, of course. (There is no such list—yet!)

But I have been taking in all of these comments. I'm late to the party, but hope to answer any and all questions that people might have. Especially the critical ones. More about those in a second.

I don't get it. You said you would answer this and that, but then you didn't. I don't know, there are too many jokes in this response and not enough serious, professional feedback.

 

[ruud1boy]

I have been subscribed to the Tinnitus Treatment Report mailing list for several years and find it quite informative. They had never promoted any specific treatment or therapy until recently. I decided to give it a try and paid around £150 (from memory), which covered a three-month supply of the product.

It took quite a while to receive the pills after making the payment—around six months, which gave me plenty of time to accept the possibility that they might not have any effect. When the pills finally arrived, I started taking them (one per day). However, after three weeks, I had to stop because my tinnitus noticeably worsened. While it's possible that something else caused the increase, the pills certainly didn't have a positive effect on my tinnitus.

I still have the remaining pills stashed away and might consider trying them again in a few months.

 

[Mr.VS]

I don't get it. You said you would answer this and that, but then you didn't. I don't know, there are too many jokes in this response and not enough serious, professional feedback.

Yup, from @urgentresearch's post it feels like the fella is high on something or trolling us...

 

[urgentresearch]

@Alberte, hi! Yes, we do have feedback from a number of early customers. We want to share it but there are a few reasons we are waiting.

1—the emails I get from subscribers/customers are private. I don't want people to wonder if any part of their communication is going to be used for some other, unexpected purpose.

2—The original clinical trial protocol was for one capsule, twice daily, one hour after meal, and for a duration of 90 days. After one month, the results were roughly in line with the control/placebo group, but at three months the difference was significant. This is consistent with previous studies of Neurotec and point to a cumulative effect. That's a fair interpretation. For that reason, the importance of the 2/day 3 month regimen, we would prefer not to share anything that is from earlier. Because it might distort expectations by painting an overly favorable or unfavorable picture, which doesn't properly set expectations. Does that mean someone's experience after 2 days or 2 weeks or 11 is not useful? Of course not. I like how @ruud1boy shared his experience, the details that were provided. I think those sort of snapshots are useful, however different they may be in dosing and duration from the trial. The helpful part is the context that allows us to make some sense of his experience.

Where am I going with this? One of the topics I spoke about with Hazel and Markku is how to best share user experiences in a way that helps people make more informed decisions that are right for them. Which is a lot different than using those same experiences, to use selectively as testimonials that are designed to get people excited and to persuade them to buy. But I think most people reading this see well past those outdated tactics. And they still work. But what we are exploring is maybe going the zero testimonial route, and not being in control of collecting and sharing customer experiences. Instead, it seems like that responsibility is one that can be entrusted to a neutral and trusted platform (aka Tinnitus Talk). There are ways to structure and collect and analyze and share feedback that can make it a lot more helpful however imperfect, for people who want to know more about how the product might affect them, or how it's affected others, in general. There are also a lot of ways to do it that are just a sophisticated form of propaganda. That's the long answer for why we're not sharing it yet, and why we are looking for the best way to let the information be shared through another party that keeps it independent and out of our control. That, to me, is the right way to do it. When might that be? To be determined. But it would be great to have user experiences collected around the time people finish up their 3 month protocol, consistent with the clinical trial duration and plausible mechanism (which is of a cumulative nature). Great question, by the way.


@Furetto, pause. THIS IS THE INTERNET. MY PROFILE PICTURE IS A CHARMANDER. But it's a fair observation, and I'll try harder to stay on topic and I do apologize for the energetic mismatch... the seriousness of the topic, in contrast to my clumsy entry into this thread and probably my mood at the time. I really just want to share as much as I can about the project/product, so people trying to make sense of it can better assess the situation. That's my goal, truly. I'm not sure I'm able to do that while making myself invisible... but your comment does make me wish I could not get in the way of communicating what's important. As @Mr.VS pointed out, I apparently seem like I am high on something or trolling. And that's okay, because WE ARE IN AN INTERNET FORUM. The reality is, it's been 2,232 days since I last used. Since we're being serious. Now, to your point about what I said I would answer, and then didn't. Didn't yet! My timing is once again, off. Because there's a lot here and I really want to take the time to respond without dismissing anything, and I give it my full attention. But you're right, I think I promised to answer about 6 or 7 different items/topics/issues. On the matters of 1. price, 2. urgency/scarcity, 3. trial integrity, 4. manufacturing documents, 5. current situation with product/availability, 6. some numbers. 7. and so on. I can't do it all at once, and I prefer to err on the thorough side. But this stuff is extremely important to me and I want to share it the right way, and on that note...

To be continued.

BECAUSE INTERNET FORUM

 

[Furetto]

@Furetto, pause. THIS IS THE INTERNET. MY PROFILE PICTURE IS A CHARMANDER. But it's a fair observation, and I'll try harder to stay on topic and I do apologize for the energetic mismatch... the seriousness of the topic, in contrast to my clumsy entry into this thread and probably my mood at the time. I really just want to share as much as I can about the project/product, so people trying to make sense of it can better assess the situation. That's my goal, truly. I'm not sure I'm able to do that while making myself invisible... but your comment does make me wish I could not get in the way of communicating what's important. As @Mr.VS pointed out, I apparently seem like I am high on something or trolling. And that's okay, because WE ARE IN AN INTERNET FORUM. The reality is, it's been 2,232 days since I last used. Since we're being serious. Now, to your point about what I said I would answer, and then didn't. Didn't yet! My timing is once again, off. Because there's a lot here and I really want to take the time to respond without dismissing anything, and I give it my full attention. But you're right, I think I promised to answer about 6 or 7 different items/topics/issues. On the matters of 1. price, 2. urgency/scarcity, 3. trial integrity, 4. manufacturing documents, 5. current situation with product/availability, 6. some numbers. 7. and so on. I can't do it all at once, and I prefer to err on the thorough side. But this stuff is extremely important to me and I want to share it the right way, and on that note...

To be continued.

View attachment 57294

BECAUSE INTERNET FORUM

I don't understand the repeated use of ALL CAPS references to this being the Internet or an Internet forum. Not every forum is like 4chan. This is a community of people suffering from a serious condition, and many are not in the mood for jokes when discussing potentially expensive therapies. Some members are even suicidal. The use of GIFs and this type of language doesn't seem very professional or trustworthy coming from a healthcare provider.

 

[BuzzyBee]

@urgentresearch is legit and was sending out the Tinnitus Treatment Report long before this dubious medicine came along. I don't know for sure, but it seems to be a diuretic. Diuretics have been known to help certain forms of tinnitus, so it probably did help a few people here and there. Let this be a lesson, but I hope to continue to see Tinnitus Treatment Report in my inbox.