New Stem Cell Transplantation Method Restores Damaged Auditory Pathways

[cornelius]

This is why I read what I can on the internet regarding these techniques. I will not do desperate stuff (although some argue that neuromodulator therapy is just that. But that is a different discussion and I hope I can disagree with that in a few months time).
I can never know enough to make a rational decision, because biology is not part of my education. I rely on people on this forum that know a lot more about biology. And I hope I have enough common sense when I can make a decision in future.

But surely, it is not millions of people have been killed by gene and stem cell therapy?
That would be daunting.

Contrary to the millions of people killed by oral drugs, concerning stem cells and gene therapy we can't find enough datas especially because these cure paths are relatively young, or not too old. Actually statistics and transparency would be nice.

 

[Reinier]

Contrary to the millions of people killed by oral drugs,

I did not realise this. What timespan is involved?
Like you said. If there are no statistics we don't know if this is a high percentage. I know one person is too much. Especially if you are this person.

 

[cornelius]

Btw, the disease and overall H/ear pain are killing me all day long, so why don't give a try to different alternative medicine ?

Personally I don't believe in alternative treatments that work very good, unless it fits for few people. For sure, sound therapy, relaxation etc are harmless. Naturopathy and homeopathy are I believe a swindle but again, harmless for our bodies.

We only can avoid ruining our bodies until a cure is born by trying to mask the ringing with surrounding soft noises, avoiding loud noises, monitor our diets.

Vasodilators that were prescriped like candies for tinnitus sufferers are now known to be dangerous. Idem for benzodiazepines for tinnitus and hyperacusis known to be even worse than heroin.

My only optimism is that with stem cells and gene therapy the goal is a cure and not a treatment. If there are dangerous side effects, it is not a cure but a treatment. Like for cancer, there are no cures but only treatments which actually destroy inevitably the body. There are no other choices in 2016 in some diseases unfortunately. Therefore there are often no other choices. Destroying something is sometimes the price to pay if one wants to stay alive.

I hope future stem cells and gene therapies won't destroy human bodies with side effects like current allopathic medicine. We are many to wish new ears but without dangerous side effects. We want to have normal life and no new disease.

 

[cornelius]

I did not realise this. What timespan is involved?
Like you said. If there are no statistics we don't know if this is a high percentage. I know one person is too much. Especially if you are this person.

It's about 500000 persons (lots of seniors) directly killed by psychdrugs in the western world every year. I know diabete drugs killed in the past, as well as cardiac drugs (a healthy close relation died overnight) but I have no number nor timespan ideas for them. Idem for other drugs I can't tell about because I don't know. But there are often lawsuits.

For sure stem cells and gene therapy won't work the same way and it's a bit out of topic to talk about oral drugs but we, ear-sicks or / and wounded, don't deserve to become guinea pigs when something named as cure comes into the market since there are already courageous - even from this forum - serving currently as guinea pigs with Atoh1. and I hope those brave voluntaries will be hugely monitored. And not fooled.

 

[bill 112]

I just wish that Stemcells were more widely recognised and actually considered as a treatment for certain conditions.It just seems that they do wonderful things for rats in a lab setting and then nothing more really comes of it.Why do they break a rats back and then reverse the damage with Stemcells,make the rat walk again,praise modern medicine then write a paper on it and just to do it all over again?I'm sure there's hundreds if not thousands of people out there willing to try this so why aren't they doing it?I don't think the world is ready for regenerative medicine and neither do the researchers so they've just decided to keep it in the lab until we are.

 

[cornelius]

I just wish that Stemcells were more widely recognised and actually considered as a treatment for certain conditions.It just seems that they do wonderful things for rats in a lab setting and then nothing more really comes of it.Why do they break a rats back and then reverse the damage with Stemcells,make the rat walk again,praise modern medicine then write a paper on it and just to do it all over again?I'm sure there's hundreds if not thousands of people out there willing to try this so why aren't they doing it?I don't think the world is ready for regenerative medicine and neither do the researchers so they've just decided to keep it in the lab until we are.

Retailers haven't sold all their white noise generators and hearing aids along with their almost useless gadgets yet, if a cure is sold fast, they are on the dole. Therefore the conversion to cure sales might be slower. A cure would make their expensive junk obsolete.

 

[bill 112]

Bra

Retailers haven't sold all their white noise generators and hearing aids along with their almost useless gadgets yet, if a cure is sold fast, they are on the dole. Therefore the conversion to cure sales might be slower. A cure would make their expensive junk obsolete.

I honestly couldn't agree more.Funny thing is if they could cure me and asked for €1000 a week for the rest of my life Id do anything I could to get the money and happily pay it

 

[cornelius]

Bra

I honestly couldn't agree more.Funny thing is if they could cure me and asked for €1000 a week for the rest of my life Id do anything I could to get the money and happily pay it

It depends on the number of hearing loss and tinnitus sufferers in the next decade, it might eventually become practically discount in the side of the patient if well reimbursed. Those last months there were many many forecasts about a futur hearing loss epidemic among the elderlies. And especially reports that - at last - linked hearing loss with dementia, which is an obviousness. Like hiv or ebola, when masses are affected, though safeness can be controversial, treatments are more or less accessible for those who can't afford it depending on the country, though very expensive for insurances. A huge amount of desperate hearing impaired might be taken for a ride, but if we add dementia, the desperates loosing their productiveness are no longer able to spend one cent for any treatment.

 

[Reinier]

It's about 500000 persons (lots of seniors) directly killed by psychdrugs in the western world every year.

That is a lot!
By the way: like your Avatar. I always liked open reel tape decks.
I slightly older movies whenever a hi-tech environment needed to be depicted, an open reel tape deck was running (-;
Is it a Revox B77?

 

[cornelius]

That is a lot!
By the way: like your Avatar. I always liked open reel tape decks.
I slightly older movies whenever a hi-tech environment needed to be depicted, an open reel tape deck was running (-;
Is it a Revox B77?

It's indeed a B77. I like old reel tape decks as well, with their thick and warm sound and their design. Hopefully if a cure for our conditions would eventually exist, I could use it again like before (mine is an akai gx-4000d) : using it as a drum playback while playing live in a band with drum loops prepared before since no drummer. And the laptop only in emergency case of technical disruption during the gig !

 

[beeeep]

It's about 500000 persons (lots of seniors) directly killed by psychdrugs in the western world every year. I know diabete drugs killed in the past, as well as cardiac drugs (a healthy close relation died overnight) but I have no number nor timespan ideas for them. Idem for other drugs I can't tell about because I don't know. But there are often lawsuits.

For sure stem cells and gene therapy won't work the same way and it's a bit out of topic to talk about oral drugs but we, ear-sicks or / and wounded, don't deserve to become guinea pigs when something named as cure comes into the market since there are already courageous - even from this forum - serving currently as guinea pigs with Atoh1. and I hope those brave voluntaries will be hugely monitored. And not fooled.

Well, there are many many people taking this kind of drugs, compared to the number of people that get stem cell treatment or gene therapy. So the interesting question is how high is the percentage of people that die of the drugs?

There's always the chance that stem cell treatment goes horribly wrong, too. Actually, I know a person that got a bone marrow transplant (wikipedia says: "Bone marrow transplant is the most widely used stem-cell therapy[..]") and died because his body rejected the stem cells.

Gene therapy has also its problems. Causing cells that can no longer proliferate to proliferate without exactly knowing how to target the right cells is a recipe for creating cancer. The following page of the university of Utah summarizes some of the challenges faced and problems encountered.

I don't think there's any hearing aid conspiracy out there, it's just that the whole stem cell (and even more gene therapy) field is still in its infancy, although this is probably not what most people want to hear.

I hope I'm wrong, but this will all take quite some time to market...

 

[bill 112]

This is why I don't trust the Stemcell hospitals in China and the likes,I just think they pump your blood back into you and nothing at all really happens,I'm yet to see without question anybody making huge improvements or even being cured by these treatments,it's all anecdotal.I know ATEOS had some interesting results but other than that I haven't heard anything from anybody that was in anyway positive.Although I was talking to a tonne of rats who were pretty much cured of everything

 

[cornelius]

Well, there are many many people taking this kind of drugs, compared to the number of people that get stem cell treatment or gene therapy. So the interesting question is how high is the percentage of people that die of the drugs?

There's always the chance that stem cell treatment goes horribly wrong, too. Actually, I know a person that got a bone marrow transplant (wikipedia says: "Bone marrow transplant is the most widely used stem-cell therapy[..]") and died because his body rejected the stem cells.

Gene therapy has also its problems. Causing cells that can no longer proliferate to proliferate without exactly knowing how to target the right cells is a recipe for creating cancer. The following page of the university of Utah summarizes some of the challenges faced and problems encountered.

I don't think there's any hearing aid conspiracy out there, it's just that the whole stem cell (and even more gene therapy) field is still in its infancy, although this is probably not what most people want to hear.

I hope I'm wrong, but this will all take quite some time to market...

With psychdrugs, on the mid term almost 100% have side effects and a huge part among those who don't die becomes brain dead and sick (diabete, dementia, liver destruction, rapid aging etc). Btw I have had a major brain and heart seizure which almost killed me because of an antidepressant several years ago.
Chemotherapies as well have massive side effects like inner ear destruction. We could enumerate drugs side effects for an eternity.

Hopefully regenerative medicine won't follow the same path as last centuries' savagery. What can keep us less scared is the widespread information and warnings on internet (though often hard to split between hoax and accuracy).

I don't believe in hearing aid conspiracy neither but more on a circumstance swindle : there is no cure, they sell trash that helps a lot the most severe cases but still trash, making it costly without enhancing it too fast, insisting with smile on the advertisements it is a medical solution.

 

[cornelius]

This is why I don't trust the Stemcell hospitals in China and the likes,I just think they pump your blood back into you and nothing at all really happens,I'm yet to see without question anybody making huge improvements or even being cured by these treatments,it's all anecdotal.I know ATEOS had some interesting results but other than that I haven't heard anything from anybody that was in anyway positive.Although I was talking to a tonne of rats who were pretty much cured of everything

There was a case in a cosmetic stem cells clinic where a patient had bone growing in the eyelids after an injection. Therefore I either loose hope because of these stories though happening in non approved therapies, or I keep hope when reading reports about rats beeing more or less cured under supervision.

 

[bill 112]

There was a case in a cosmetic stem cells clinic where a patient had bone growing in the eyelids after an injection. Therefore I either loose hope because of these stories though happening in non approved therapies, or I keep hope when reading reports about rats beeing more or less cured under supervision.

I'm just waiting for someone who is experienced in Stemcell treatments and not just some randomer promising things they can't possibly do just so they can empty your wallet.

 

[lymebite]

This is why I don't trust the Stemcell hospitals in China and the likes,I just think they pump your blood back into you and nothing at all really happens,I'm yet to see without question anybody making huge improvements or even being cured by these treatments,it's all anecdotal.

While I am not sure they do anything different (or promise anything different) from the hospitals in China and Thailand, there are a growing number of stem cell clinics in the United States offering similar treatment. Here is one, they charge $7,100 and part of their pitch is to save patients the expense and risk of trips to Asia:

"We also aim to provide an affordable and quality US alternative to those who have been told that they have to travel overseas for treatment. Most of these trips can cost $20,000 to $50,000 and we want to offer a quality alternative for a fraction of the cost so that we can provide this potentially life-changing treatment for as many people as possible."

http://www.the-stem-cell-center.com/component/content/article/39-deafness.html

So, for people in the United States who are at the end of their rope and willing to try cutting edge but unproven things, but spending $25,000 for Bangkok seems like a bridge too far, maybe $7,100 in the United States might be worth a shot. No trans-Pacific flight, no language barrier, and much lower total cost. Safer? I don't know. Maybe.

 

[Nick Pyzik]

While I am not sure they do anything different (or promise anything different) from the hospitals in China and Thailand, there are a growing number of stem cell clinics in the United States offering similar treatment. Here is one, they charge $7,100 and part of their pitch is to save patients the expense and risk of trips to Asia:

"We also aim to provide an affordable and quality US alternative to those who have been told that they have to travel overseas for treatment. Most of these trips can cost $20,000 to $50,000 and we want to offer a quality alternative for a fraction of the cost so that we can provide this potentially life-changing treatment for as many people as possible."

http://www.the-stem-cell-center.com/component/content/article/39-deafness.html

So, for people in the United States who are at the end of their rope and willing to try cutting edge but unproven things, but spending $25,000 for Bangkok seems like a bridge too far, maybe $7,100 in the United States might be worth a shot. No trans-Pacific flight, no language barrier, and much lower total cost. Safer? I don't know. Maybe.

That is a straight up, no good, illegal scam. Even if it's at a cheaper price than other countries.

 

[Reinier]

Hopefully if a cure for our conditions would eventually exist, I could use it again like before

Precisely my thinking too. I stored my old HIFI for just that reason. I even bought a couple of 1970' vinyl 45 rpm last year. It would be wonderful if I can hear the inherently vinyl crackling sound in both ears again. I hold on to my old tube telly so I can hear the HT oscillator again.
Sad? I don't see it like that.
Gives me something to believe in and look forward too.

 

[Reinier]

That is a straight up, no good, illegal scam. Even if it's at a cheaper price than other countries.

I am not saying your right or wrong. I don't what to get into that. I just want to understand and discus.
What is the difference with the stem cell therapy some people underwent and report improvement?

After reading all the many documents I can understand that creating stem cells and "randomly" inject them into a person will not do much (if anything). A discussion we have seen on this forum many times. I still do not understand the reported improvement after stem cell treatments though.

When in time results from stem cell therapies are disappointing, it will no longer be regarded as a miracle cure. Internet will report on the lack of result. Something like that will be difficult to suppress.
And perhaps this is already the case. Just depends on what you choose to read.

Penicillin turned out to be almost a miracle cure.
Since than medical science understand much more about all the different processes, but not yet enough to abolish "miracle cures".

 

[cornelius]

Precisely my thinking too. I stored my old HIFI for just that reason. I even bought a couple of 1970' vinyl 45 rpm last year. It would be wonderful if I can hear the inherently vinyl crackling sound in both ears again. I hold on to my old tube telly so I can hear the HT oscillator again.
Sad? I don't see it like that.
Gives me something to believe in and look forward too.

I still buy gear too and the irony is that since acoustic traumas (caused by loud events after which I was always been told i'm mentally ill and that noise is not the cause until audiograms showed it many years after) I became a lot better skilled in audio and music production but unable to listen to music with headphones or moderate level loudspeaker or making gigs even at moderate level without risking more damages. We need to hear and listen fully to silence and external sounds again but without getting side diseases.

I'm confident in the AM-101 test for recent tinnitus because it is still made with relatively superficial targets but I'm more worried by the results expected by Novartis' in Atoh1 switch gene therapy test since the targets are not fully known and deeper to a certain extent.

 

[bill 112]

The problem with these so called"Stemcell"hospitals is that you never hear of anyone being cured of anything after treatment,maybe improvement but nothing that can be distinguished,most of it I believe is just wishful thinking on the patients behalf maybe I'm wrong but I doubt it really has any effect.If scientists in top universities in state of the art labs can partially fix a rats spine with stem cells by careful and intensive research what makes people think that Dr.Lovejoy at the Sexy Stemcell Clinic can grow you a new dick just by pumping Stemcells up your ass?Its all a scam on poor desperate people.

 

[Silvio Sabo]

The problem with these so called"Stemcell"hospitals is that you never hear of anyone being cured of anything after treatment,maybe improvement but nothing that can be distinguished,most of it I believe is just wishful thinking on the patients behalf maybe I'm wrong but I doubt it really has any effect.If scientists in top universities in state of the art labs can partially fix a rats spine with stem cells by careful and intensive research what makes people think that Dr.Lovejoy at the Sexy Stemcell Clinic can grow you a new dick just by pumping Stemcells up your ass?Its all a scam on poor desperate people.

 

[bill 112]

I seen that video numerous times,to be honest it gave me great hope,But I've heard reports from people that the events portrayed in the video were not exactly accurate,correct me if I'm wrong I really hope I am.

 

[RB2014]

If they can fix rats, they should be able to fix us. I have read of people improving and I'm not sure what to believe too. I do think stem cells have the ability to improve, but maybe not completely cure at this point. Its like the guys that had a stroke and took the stem cell treatment. They were up and running around after the treatment and getting better. Most people don't recover that quickly and I'm pretty sure most people don't really recover that much at all from something like this.
Article below:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...in-stroke-recovery-b99521711z1-307940001.html

 

[attheedgeofscience]

But I've heard reports from people that the events portrayed in the video were not exactly accurate

I wonder who those people might be...?

 

[bill 112]

I wonder who those people might be...?

Not doctors or anything like that,to be honest when you mention Stemcells to doctors they look at you like your living in a parallel universe.But I read that this wasn't as miraculous as made out in the video,admittedly this was along time ago that I heard this so I could be completely wrong,this is one of the few occasions where I really hope I am!But if this is such a good treatment why isnt it more commonplace?

 

[cornelius]

I wonder who those people might be...?

Teleshopping actors ?

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Not doctors or anything like that,to be honest when you mention Stemcells to doctors they look at you like your living in a parallel universe.But I read that this wasn't as miraculous as made out in the video,admittedly this was along time ago that I heard this so I could be completely wrong,this is one of the few occasions where I really hope I am!

Okay... so you didn't "hear it" - you read it... Could I please ask where you read it?

Thanks.

 

[cornelius]

Not doctors or anything like that,to be honest when you mention Stemcells to doctors they look at you like your living in a parallel universe.But I read that this wasn't as miraculous as made out in the video,admittedly this was along time ago that I heard this so I could be completely wrong,this is one of the few occasions where I really hope I am!But if this is such a good treatment why isnt it more commonplace?

Many Otorhinolaryngologist are even not aware of recent scientific interpretations about inner ear wounds which however are public.

 

[bill 112]

Okay... so you didn't "hear it" - you read it... Could I please ask where you read it?

Thanks.

To be honest I can't remember,I seen this video when I first developed T and started digging to find more,all I remember is seeing depressing comments,some hopeful but the best part were dishearteningLike I said I could be wrong,and hope I am,but I just don't buy into these clinics(just an opinion)I don't think enough is known for them to be viable as of yet.