New Theory of Hearing/Loss/Tinnitus?

[tomytl]

Hi,
maybe this article explains why some people have perfect hearing in audiogram while having
Tinnitus/Hyperacusis. So maybe the death of underlying neurons are more relevant than
possible damage to the hair cells in the inner ear.
So from that, we would need something which helps the neurons to survive, i.E. a drug that
can produce Neurotrophin/BDNF... does anybody know?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140507142804.htm

Greets Tom

 

[bill 112]

Hi,
maybe this article explains why some people have perfect hearing in audiogram while having
Tinnitus/Hyperacusis. So maybe the death of underlying neurons are more relevant than
possible damage to the hair cells in the inner ear.
So from that, we would need something which helps the neurons to survive, i.E. a drug that
can produce Neurotrophin/BDNF... does anybody know?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140507142804.htm

Greets Tom

Im not sure if this is good news or bad news but I deep down knew the acoustic nerve played a role in this.How are they proposing to reverse this??Can this be reversed at all?They want to create new therapies but when will they do so?

 

[t-man]

I always assumed if a neuron dies it ceases to produce

So maybe the death of underlying neurons are more relevant than
possible damage to the hair cells in the inner ear.

Isn't tinnitus caused by over excited neurons and not dead ones? If a neuron is dead it can't produce a tone.

Anyway, a drug or procedure to silence over active neurons is where I want to see research headed. Yeah it's great to restore hair cells and hearing but it may or may not shut these damn cells up and even if it does, we're naturally prone to tinnitus and we'll simply get it again once we inevitably loose a few more hair cells with age or an unexpected noise exposure.

I don't care if I can hear a bird chirp, just make the ringing go away. Everything above 12k is just pie for me.

 

[tomytl]

Hi,
I discussed this right now with an expert.
This is what he said:

"Researchers have conclusively shown when you have new hair cells, they serve as a powerful source to attract neurons to form new connections. It was our concerns but not any more..."

It's rather good news.

 

[Johno]

Hi,
I discussed this right now with an expert.
This is what he said:

"Researchers have conclusively shown when you have new hair cells, they serve as a powerful source to attract neurons to form new connections. It was our concerns but not any more..."

It's rather good news.

I know it is off topic, but your avatar looks like nuclear explosion of water drop

Anyway, good informations. Nerve fibers can regrow in most cases.

 

[bill 112]

Hi,
I discussed this right now with an expert.
This is what he said:

"Researchers have conclusively shown when you have new hair cells, they serve as a powerful source to attract neurons to form new connections. It was our concerns but not any more..."

It's rather good news.

Oh cool nice one Tom its just when they said that they eventually disappear and never reconnect with the hair cell that I got a bit worried about the whole haircell regeneration project.I was just thinking whats the point regenerating them when theres no nerve for them to connect to wouldnt it be a bit like plugging in your tv with no wire between the plug and the tv.Ive also read unlike the rest of your body when nerves are damaged in and around the brain they dont regenerate,instead they become wrapped in scar tissue?

 

[nills]

another fact is that there are ways to create neurons. So they can form again. One of them is by fasting. doesn`t have to be for long periods just couple a days a week will help. The supporting idea is that if we fast the brain gets the input that we are not getting enough food, which means we have to become smarter to develop better understanding to get food on our plate (hunting techniques, skills to find edible plants and such) it`s all ancient programming when we were still at the start of the human evolution.

look for the documentary, `Eat fast and live longer` very interesting!

 

[Grace]

Isnt stimulating the vagues nerve suppose to stop the firing of neurons which create T? Im sure theres possible ways they can figure out to do that in the future.

 

[tomytl]

Oh cool nice one Tom its just when they said that they eventually disappear and never reconnect with the hair cell that I got a bit worried about the whole haircell regeneration project.I was just thinking whats the point regenerating them when theres no nerve for them to connect to wouldnt it be a bit like plugging in your tv with no wire between the plug and the tv.Ive also read unlike the rest of your body when nerves are damaged in and around the brain they dont regenerate,instead they become wrapped in scar tissue?

Hi,
everything in hearing science seems to be highly complex. Researcher knows a lot about lab work. At least, we have to look after results in human. Soon, there might be first results from the Novartis human trial. If they really can give profound people some hearing back, it would be proof that hair cell regeneration does also reconnect with the brain.Maybe they do, but at lower level or few connections or maybe all.
At least to say, that this researcher s with the neuron findings have completly different regeneration approaches then the Atoh1 team.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I suppose the article - strictly speaking - is noteworthy if indeed this is the first time that the mechanism behind hidden hearing loss has been found. (But, I do not believe that it is the first time).

But even if it is the first time, the conclusion that...

"All of our federal noise exposure guidelines are based on the assumption that noise-exposures causing only transient threshold elevation are benign. That assumption is almost certainly unwarranted,"

...is something Dr. Wilden has known for many, many years.

Besides being an absolute expert on the inner ear and regenerative medicine, Dr. Wilden is also someone who truly cares about public health - especially in relation to noise. He spends a great deal of his own time educating teenagers on the dangers of noise exposure (by going to schools and seeing teachers/students). He also spends his time trying to get health officials to understand the conclusion reached in the article (ie. that even moderate noise exposure for prolonged periods of time can be damaging).

If you look at the following photos I took only a couple of weeks ago, you will see why Dr. Wilden's "crusade" against noise is still somewhat relevant for even a highly developed nation (remember this is Germany in 2014...!):





(Click on the photos to see the enlargement - and in case it isn't entirely clear, the person in first photo is wearing earmuffs as he correctly should when drilling holes in a wall with an industrial pneumatic drill, but his colleague on the left in the 2nd photo is not wearing earmuffs. And they were doing the work for 4-5 hours each day; noise level about 100 db. I think the photos speak volumes because it just shows how careless people can be with their own health - after all, the worker on the left had a "textbook example" to learn from - and right next to him, no less. No wonder people get tinnitus and hearing loss...).

 

[tomytl]

another fact is that there are ways to create neurons. So they can form again. One of them is by fasting. doesn`t have to be for long periods just couple a days a week will help. The supporting idea is that if we fast the brain gets the input that we are not getting enough food, which means we have to become smarter to develop better understanding to get food on our plate (hunting techniques, skills to find edible plants and such) it`s all ancient programming when we were still at the start of the human evolution.

look for the documentary, `Eat fast and live longer` very interesting!

Interesting aspect!

 

[nills]

Interesting aspect!

It is here for those interested.

 

[Littlebailey]

Fascinating article. As far as T goes, I'm still not sure how this affects the potential efficacy of autifony and AM 101, the two main 'cures' coming down the pike, or most purely T treatments generally. Certainly not the treatments directed at stopping/slowing T at its source.

Regardless of the nature of hearing loss, the negating of T in the brain still remains the same game, no?

 

[carlover]

This could be the answer.Frankenstein had very bad tinnitus and he wasnt exactly einstein was he,

 

[john2012]

I always assumed if a neuron dies it ceases to produce

Isn't tinnitus caused by over excited neurons and not dead ones? If a neuron is dead it can't produce a tone.

Anyway, a drug or procedure to silence over active neurons is where I want to see research headed. Yeah it's great to restore hair cells and hearing but it may or may not shut these damn cells up and even if it does, we're naturally prone to tinnitus and we'll simply get it again once we inevitably loose a few more hair cells with age or an unexpected noise exposure.

I don't care if I can hear a bird chirp, just make the ringing go away. Everything above 12k is just pie for me.

Cool points. In many respects, hair cell death and hearing loss is as natural as greying hair.

The Brilliant Point by T-Man...it's over-excited, NOT dead, neurons that facilitate the offending signal.
So...Kill the neuron or restore it to balance.

Everyone say a prayer for Autifony.

 

[dan]

Cool points. In many respects, hair cell death and hearing loss is as natural as greying hair.

The Brilliant Point by T-Man...it's over-excited, NOT dead, neurons that facilitate the offending signal.
So...Kill the neuron or restore it to balance.

Everyone say a prayer for Autifony.

I don't think that t will happen for certain if it were cured by say neuron ablation. This is because tinnitus emergence takes very strong triggers - emotionally and neurologically. Most of us with severe tinnitus had some sort of heavy stress and an abrupt hearing loss noise exposure combined before tinnitus onset. I think to prevent tinnitus one has to lead a stress free life and avoid loud noises - a hard feat in our day and age.
Nature has designed us with internal failsafe mechanisms so as we normally age, our brains easily compensate for loss of input. It is when we put stress on that system, those of us who were susceptible had those filters break down. Let me give an example. Dr.Jeanmonod talks about a brain operation he did on a neurogenic pain patient in one of his interviews. The patient had a great improvement but at the 6month post-op, she had a death in the family and the pain returned full blast. After some counceling, she had eventually regained back her progress.

Amen for Auttifony.

 

[Littlebailey]

@dan

So you're saying if we can eliminate the stress, we can eliminate the T, and restore the balance?

 

[john2012]

I don't think that t will happen for certain if it were cured by say neuron ablation. This is because tinnitus emergence takes very strong triggers - emotionally and neurologically. Most of us with severe tinnitus had some sort of heavy stress and an abrupt hearing loss noise exposure combined before tinnitus onset. I think to prevent tinnitus one has to lead a stress free life and avoid loud noises - a hard feat in our day and age.
Nature has designed us with internal failsafe mechanisms so as we normally age, our brains easily compensate for loss of input. It is when we put stress on that system, those of us who were susceptible had those filters break down. Let me give an example. Dr.Jeanmonod talks about a brain operation he did on a neurogenic pain patient in one of his interviews. The patient had a great improvement but at the 6month post-op, she had a death in the family and the pain returned full blast. After some counceling, she had eventually regained back her progress.

Amen for Auttifony.

Lucid. Insightful. Best post I've ever read.

 

[jazz]

@dan

So you're saying if we can eliminate the stress, we can eliminate the T, and restore the balance?

No, it doesn't work like this; at least, it doesn't if your tinnitus has become chronic (>1 year). But stress often enhances tinnitus--makes it louder--so it's possible if you reduce your stress you'll also lower your noise.

 

[Littlebailey]

No, it doesn't work like this; at least, it doesn't if your tinnitus has become chronic (>1 year). But stress often enhances tinnitus--makes it louder--so it's possible if you reduce your stress you'll also lower your noise.

It doesn't, huh? Well what if you get your stress well under control within a year's time? And your T was very mild to begin with? Any chance for a remission then?

 

[RichL]

No not really, from my own experience I got T when I was 21, I was under no stress what so ever!, I lived at home, payed no board,had no bills, wasn't working and life was easy and fun so I would think that stress will aggravate T but ridding yourself of stress, for the majority anyway, won't eliminate it at all! at least not noise induced T.

 

[Grace]

I have noise induced T.. And i know alot of people that have T unexpectly with no cause contribute it to stress induced.. But i just cant see how being stressed can cause it. I think theres an underlying cause that just cant be pin pointed if you dont know what caused it.. So blaming it on stress makes sense but i feel like theres more goin on in the body then just stress causing T.

 

[Littlebailey]

@RichL

I think maybe the rough idea of stress causing it, is, perhaps, that the normally functioning 'inhibitors' of the brain fail to to do their job when one is under great stress/anxiety, and the equilibrium between the T signal, which may actually be present and active even without hearing loss, or with only minor hearing loss, that equilibrium is shattered or lost, and thus the T percept becomes noticeable.

But that's just from what I'm trying to piece together reading various studies and whatnot. Obviously, damage to your ears is a major cause of T. Perhaps with sufficiently great loss of hearing, whatever inhibitory elements are naturally present in the brain are simply overwhelmed by the synchronous firing that ensues with major cochlear/hair cell damage.

@Grace

How are you doing? Is yours getting any better? I'm looking at you as one of the ones for whom it could go away eventually.

 

[DebInAustralia]

another fact is that there are ways to create neurons. So they can form again. One of them is by fasting. doesn`t have to be for long periods just couple a days a week will help. The supporting idea is that if we fast the brain gets the input that we are not getting enough food, which means we have to become smarter to develop better understanding to get food on our plate (hunting techniques, skills to find edible plants and such) it`s all ancient programming when we were still at the start of the human evolution.

look for the documentary, `Eat fast and live longer` very interesting!

Nills,

That is really interesting. thankyou

 

[Grace]

@RichL

I think maybe the rough idea of stress causing it, is, perhaps, that the normally functioning 'inhibitors' of the brain fail to to do their job when one is under great stress/anxiety, and the equilibrium between the T signal, which may actually be present and active even without hearing loss, or with only minor hearing loss, that equilibrium is shattered or lost, and thus the T percept becomes noticeable.

But that's just from what I'm trying to piece together reading various studies and whatnot. Obviously, damage to your ears is a major cause of T. Perhaps with sufficiently great loss of hearing, whatever inhibitory elements are naturally present in the brain are simply overwhelmed by the synchronous firing that ensues with major cochlear/hair cell damage.

@Grace

How are you doing? Is yours getting any better? I'm looking at you as one of the ones for whom it could go away eventually.

Im doin good, T hasnt changed much.. I got alot of noises
Goin on that are all real mild and im goin on 7 months so i dont think
It will go away but im okay as long as it doesnt spike up!! Hope all is well with you

 

[Martin69]

Stress definitely can result in T. I have stress-induced T.
It started when I had headache, migraines, vertigo - and no one could tell me what was wrong.
My brain and body went into alarm state triggering T.
So it was an alarm signal which unfortunately stayed.
One could say, better deaf than dead. So the system switched on an alarm in the brain.
Never ever had any ear problems before.
I have reduced my stress as much as possible. Working less, have enough money, family is great.
There is only one thing that stresses me: A loud screaming TV signal in my head.

 

[Martin69]

I don't think that t will happen for certain if it were cured by say neuron ablation. This is because tinnitus emergence takes very strong triggers - emotionally and neurologically. Most of us with severe tinnitus had some sort of heavy stress and an abrupt hearing loss noise exposure combined before tinnitus onset. I think to prevent tinnitus one has to lead a stress free life and avoid loud noises - a hard feat in our day and age.
Nature has designed us with internal failsafe mechanisms so as we normally age, our brains easily compensate for loss of input. It is when we put stress on that system, those of us who were susceptible had those filters break down. Let me give an example. Dr.Jeanmonod talks about a brain operation he did on a neurogenic pain patient in one of his interviews. The patient had a great improvement but at the 6month post-op, she had a death in the family and the pain returned full blast. After some counceling, she had eventually regained back her progress.

Amen for Auttifony.

That was also told us here in a tinnitus clinic. The filters break down and no longer suppress signals coming from the brain. Unfortunately no one has really a clue how to build up these filters again. Habituation?

 

[dan]

@Martin69 , I believe habituation may play a role. If you can get to a point of perceptual habituation, you can form new neuronal pathways that will eventually completely block the tinnitus signal.
However, as it probably turns out, the louder the signal, the more "filter breakdown", the harder it will be to achieve habituation of perception. But I think most people will be more than satisfied with a habituation of reaction - where you simply don't care one way or the other.

 

[Martin69]

@Martin69 , I believe habituation may play a role. If you can get to a point of perceptual habituation, you can form new neuronal pathways that will eventually completely block the tinnitus signal.
However, as it probably turns out, the louder the signal, the more "filter breakdown", the harder it will be to achieve habituation of perception. But I think most people will be more than satisfied with a habituation of reaction - where you simply don't care one way or the other.

@dan I can remember days when my T was so low (for example by taking meds) that I think habituation would have been no problem (although I never can say for sure). But my standard T is loud, high-pitched and I can always hear it. People here say that habituation to loud T is also possible, but takes longer. I do not react to it in a way that I stay at home crying every day. I try living my life as good as possible. But every day is a big challenge because of anxiety and depression. I like success stories like the recent one from Barry to do NOTHING and just do not react to it. I really don't know how I could do that. I would freak out if I do not mask as good as possible.

 

[JerryLee]

I've had T every once and a while when not getting enough sleep or listening to loud music. The T always backed off after a while. But six weeks ago, I woke up after a long, deep sleep and noticed the T was there. So tried to figure out what the prob was. In the previous days, I constantly used my smart phone to surf the net, my mobile operator offered me for free a huge boost in download capacity (without asking me anything), coffee from early in the morning and then there was that Salicylate thing that seems to develop some sort of intolerance in the ear. I'm finally having one moment of what I call 'intense silence'.

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