New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[Pero1234]

Somehow I have a feeling that signal timing could alleviate / remove the symptoms of tinnitus...

But that Frequency TX is working on the cure: regrowing hair cells.

Given the choice, I'd give Frequency TX a first shot. Who knows, perhaps signal timing turns off more than we want in the brain... eliminating the chance of restoring hearing in that frequency.

Just a thought I'm not a scientist.

 

[ee9892]

Somehow I have a feeling that signal timing could alleviate / remove the symptoms of tinnitus...

But that Frequency TX is working on the cure: regrowing hair cells.

Given the choice, I'd give Frequency TX a first shot. Who knows, perhaps signal timing turns off more than we want in the brain... eliminating the chance of restoring hearing in that frequency.

Just a thought I'm not a scientist.

The more research the better

 

[Jiri]

Could this treatment work also for patients with drug induced ototoxicity?

I know it's too early to jump into conclusions but a great deal of tinnitus sufferers had also been treated (at least in the initial stages) with antidepressants and/or antiepileptic drugs to fight anxiety.

These aren't strictly ototoxic agents to the same extend as e.g. Salicilates, NSAIDS, Loop diuretics, Chemotherapy agents or certain types of Antibiotics (-mycin). Those who have had "T" for a long time and the initial cause for their tinnitus was a noise exposure, might surely have undergone treatments with some of these type of medications too (there are millions of "t" patients worldwide after all).

It just crossed my mind if this strategy could also prove helpful to them...

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Jiri Yes this treatment may even help those with non somatic issues because vertebral nerves is what often causes somatic tinnitus and sometimes other tinnitus influence. The vertebral arteries have direct influence with vagal, cardiac, and AUDITORY. The vertebral arteries in trauma can cause headaches, vertigo, nasal problems, facial pain and flushing.

For somatic tinnitus the cervical spine provides musculoskeletal stability which supports the cranium, spinal cord and vertebral artery. Cervical subluxation has an effect on sensory and nervous systems. The sternocleidmastoideus and trapezius muscle strain is often due to strain of sensory fibers of the spinal accessory nerves. It's the vertebral arteries where AUDITORY symptoms follow.

Unless there's a structure problem in the cervical spine and/or brain stem then her treatment should help many, but I think pressure against resistance exercises will also be needed. Control of forward head bending, eye strain and emotional tension is believed to be also needed.

 

[Jiri]

That was very informative. Thank you, @Greg Sacramento

However, I was specifically thinking this time of those who acquired drug induced tinnitus - poisoning of the cochlea and/or auditory nerve, on top of their noise induced tinnitus.

Either as a result of a psychiatric treatment (antidepressants/antiepileptics/antipsychotics) or by being prescribed some of the drug agents I mentioned above - antibiotics are fairly common e.g.

By poisoning it may well be the brain itself that's also affected.

Could UoM - signal timing still prove helpful in such case scenarios?

 

[hans799]

Somehow I have a feeling that signal timing could alleviate / remove the symptoms of tinnitus...

But that Frequency TX is working on the cure: regrowing hair cells.

Given the choice, I'd give Frequency TX a first shot. Who knows, perhaps signal timing turns off more than we want in the brain... eliminating the chance of restoring hearing in that frequency.

Just a thought I'm not a scientist.

Man I really want to get to the point where a tinnitus sufferer can look at the many options for curing the condition and with a disinterested, slightly superior air point out to his doctor which one he prefers to get That will be so awesome.

(Not to imply that your post was in any way disinterested or superior!! This is just a fun mental image in contrast to today's "you just have to live with it" shit.)

 

[threefirefour]

Man I really want to get to the point where a tinnitus sufferer can look at the many options for curing the condition ans with a disinterested, slightly superior air point out to his doctor which one he prefers to get That will be so awesome.

(Not to imply that your post was in any way disinterested or superior!! This is just a fun mental image in contrast to today's "you just have to live with it" shit.)

Yeah I'd be glad for one treatment but a plethora would be even better

 

[kelpiemsp]

All roads lead to Rome. If you can stop T in the brain, it doesn't matter how it is caused. IMHO.

 

[grate_biff]

All roads lead to Rome. If you can stop T in the brain, it doesn't matter how it is caused. IMHO.

Yes, Dr. Shore talks about slowing down over active neurones in the brain. And there is no reason to think that this is what happens after loss of input to the brain through HL.
I really wonder why this " works only/best for people who can manipulate their T through neck movement!" etc..
Hopefully many people with (proven)noice induces HL will be part of the next trial.

 

[jay777]

Can someone tell me how it takes 15 years to get to human trials?
What is so different with Shore's mp3 to what has already been in trials before?
Is it just media hype?

 

[threefirefour]

Can someone tell me how it takes 15 years to get to human trials?
What is so different with Shore's mp3 to what has already been in trials before?
Is it just media hype?

All the research I guess. We're doing human trials and the last one before seeking FDA approval is this August.

The difference is that Susan shore is using a bimodal hearing and somatic stimulation system. Meaning she hooks up a device that stimulates the muscle that modulates tinnitus, while using a sound source.

 

[jay777]

@threefirefour To stimulate the vagus nerve?

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@Jiri Yes this treatment may even help those with non somatic issues because vertebral nerves is what often causes somatic tinnitus and sometimes other tinnitus influence. The vertebral arteries have direct influence with vagal, cardiac, and AUDITORY. The vertebral arteries in trauma can cause headaches, vertigo, nasal problems, facial pain and flushing.

For somatic tinnitus the cervical spine provides musculoskeletal stability which supports the cranium, spinal cord and vertebral artery. Cervical subluxation has an effect on sensory and nervous systems. The sternocleidmastoideus and trapezius muscle strain is often due to strain of sensory fibers of the spinal accessory nerves. It's the vertebral arteries where AUDITORY symptoms follow.

Unless there's a structure problem in the cervical spine and/or brain stem then her treatment should help many, but I think pressure against resistance exercises will also be needed. Control of forward head bending, eye strain and emotional tension is believed to be also needed.

I honestly have no clue what you are saying. Or even what you trying to say...

The following explains how the joint mechanisms in tinnitus perception arise in the model that the Shore team has developed a bi-modal stimulation device for:

"The process begins when excessive noise damages nerve fibers in the cochlea, reducing the amount of sound information sent to the brain. In turn, the fusiform cells try to compensate. To make up for the diminished
auditory signal they're receiving, fusiform cells draw increased input from somatosensory regions in the head and neck. The cells become hyperactive and synchronize, sending persistent signals that the brain interprets as sound."

It is for this reason that I believe (as stated yesterday) that the treatment is for those who have somatosensory tinnitus as a symptom (and not an etiology). As such – at least according to what I know – the treatment could span multiple etiologies (incl. those with tinnitus due to noise exposure). All that is required is that the participants can modulate their tinnitus using applied pressure to the jaw region. Or something along those lines...

 

[threefirefour]

@threefirefour To stimulate the vagus nerve?

Well no but it's a similar concept. This is focused on the DCN. There's recently been a study suggesting that VN stimulation is somewhat effective, so if it's similar, then that's good because it shows that we may see some good success.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@attheedgeofscience My post above was directed to @Jiri on how the New University of Michigan study outcomes may be helpful with cervical trauma. Jiri and myself had many conversations about cause and management of cervical trauma. Jiri's 'start a conversation' feature isn't in use at this time.

'Chapter 4 Cervical Spine Trauma' is a good education for those with physical neck problems. If you turn to this article and read 'Case Management and Prognosis' then you'll understand how Susan Shore's methods of discussion may help some with cervical problems.

There's many of us here who have a good understanding within a particular area of tinnitus. @Michael Leigh has an excellent understanding of audiology and hearing etc; @GregCA has an excellent understanding of the functions of the ear etc; @glynis has an excellent understanding of Meniere's and etc; I would like to think that I have a good understanding of cervical T and the in's and out's of the medical care system within the area where I live, but that understanding may not be universal. With that, I appreciate your knowledge. None of us knows all.

I appreciate Susan Shore and company for their knowledge.

 

[Hania]

Guys I have noise induced tinnitus which I can modulate by moving my jaw.

Sadly I don't have a constant tone but different tones.

Do you think I could be in for this device?

 

[threefirefour]

Guys I have noise induced tinnitus which I can modulate by moving my jaw.

Sadly I don't have a constant tone but different tones.

Do you think I could be in for this device?

Absolutely. All that matters is that you can modulate it with a specific muscle. If you're really concerned, try to find the muscle in your jaw that you can move to modulate tinnitus.

 

[GregCA]

Guys I have noise induced tinnitus which I can modulate by moving my jaw.

Sadly I don't have a constant tone but different tones.

Do you think I could be in for this device?

Based on the presentation I watched from Susan Shore, I think so.

 

[Jiri]

I honestly have no clue what you are saying. Or even what you trying to say...

But I do.

All I can say is that I am very grateful that there are people on this site who hold a degree in a medical field and were working as health professionals for many many years such as @Greg Sacramento, and then the positive thinking people who keep us updated on the current research news @threefirefour e.g.

Since my original question has not been answered I guess I'm in the wrong place then and will try to get in touch with the "source" to get info.

 

[Blue28]

"Fusiform cells perform several valuable functions under normal conditions. They help us locate where sounds are coming from, and help us tune out noises and sensations related to our own head and neck movements."

This is a quote from the research being done at the University of Michigan. They talk about the fusiform cells being overactive in the dorsal cochlear nucleus after a hearing loss. It makes total sense to me as when I first suffered my acoustic trauma from microsuction I had a lot of difficulty locating where sounds were coming from. I also hear a lot of sounds coming from my head and neck now (cracking neck, ear popping, jaw opening etc). I never heard these sounds before. I still have severe T and H.

Does anyone else experience this and have you found ways to alleviate it? Is there any progress with the research done by the University of Michigan?

 

[GregCA]

Does anyone else experience this and have you found ways to alleviate it? Is there any progress with the research done by the University of Michigan?

What kind of progress are you looking for? They're continuing their research and are recruiting for a new trial for their bi-modal stimulation device.
What you quote is the basis for their treatment.

 

[Autumnly]

Is there any progress with the research done by the University of Michigan?

A phase 2 trial is expected to begin this August.

"Published in early January, the findings prompted an outpouring from people interested in the next clinical trial, set to start in August. "We've received about 2600 emails," Shore noted. Despite the interest, the upcoming trial can accommodate only 50 participants.

The upcoming trial in August, which received funding from the National Institutes of Health's Brain Initiative, will administer the treatment a bit longer, perhaps 6 weeks instead of 4 or a longer duration per day, Shore said.

For now, the human findings are preliminary and the device is experimental, although the University of Michigan holds a patent on the concept. "We don't have an end product just yet," she noted. "But for the next trial we're having devices made that will be FDA-compliant."

"How long might it take before a commercial product is on the market? "At least a couple of years," Shore said. "I can't predict the future, so we'll just have to wait and see."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2675187

(Didn't I post this in the support forum? Anyway, sorry for double posting this!)

 

[Blue28]

What kind of progress are you looking for? They're continuing their research and are recruiting for a new trial for their bi-modal stimulation device.
What you quote is the basis for their treatment.

I was just wondering if they have a timescale for their research. I'm not in the US so doubt I'd qualify for their new trial. For me what they are claiming makes complete sense.

 

[Blue28]

Thanks @Autumnly... You just beat me to it with your reply.

 

[GregCA]

I was just wondering if they have a timescale for their research.

There is a full thread dedicated to them. You'll find tons of stuff related to them in there.

 

[razo]

I hope so too.

But regarding inserting chemicals: I discovered this technology while reading about the swedish company Combigene. They are now in pre-clinical studies (apologies for saying clinical stage in last post) and their proof-of-concept studies on animal models have finished with good results, and they have also seen good effects on transplanted, living human braintissue that they have had access to after epileptic surgery. In my notes I have that epilepsy is due to overproduction of glutamate in the brain. Their CG-01 is a virus that does not replicate (so it will stay in the injected brain area, so is safe compared to earlier types of this medication). In my laymans understanding the CG-01 acts as resistance for the neurons and then causes them to reduce the activity and "fire" less. It is intended for the group of epileptic patients that are not suitable for todays epileptic treatment. They are also looking to expand their CG-01 to new indications.
Here is a videopresentation:

And their webpage: http://combigene.com/en/latest-news/

Perhaps this could be a future solution for people with tinnitus also. (I did not want to start a new thread so I mentioned this here).

I forwarded my idea to the company and got an appreciative answer from their Chief research and development officer. They will look into the suggestion and see if this can be an application for their CG-01.
I have also referred to these two videos:





Comment: the videos do not seem to be avaible via this website.

 

[kelpiemsp]

The reason can be seen in this diagram. T which passes through the Dorsal Cochlear Nucleus can be of somatic or otic origin. However, the reason they are testing this T is because it can be accessed through a somatic pathway regardless. Follow the map. For the 20 percent of T which goes through the ventral cochlear nucleus, researchers are unsure. But this is how you frame up a study. I hope this helps clarify.

 

[brummygirl]

@kelpiemsp thank you so much for posting the diagram above. Extremely interesting. Did you put it together or can we see it in situ somewhere else?

 

[Markku]

@kelpiemsp thank you so much for posting the diagram above. Extremely interesting. Did you put it together or can we see it in situ somewhere else?

The diagram can be found here:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079612307660178

The full article is behind a paywall though.

The diagram is also referenced here:

http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/hearing/tinnitus/somatic tinnitus.html

 

[kelpiemsp]

@brummygirl No problem! I found it behind a paywall regarding cervical spine induced tinnitus. But he used it again in a different study here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4134893/