MemberThe first study is here:
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._to_reduce_tinnitus_in_Guinea_pigs_and_humans
Smaller but in-depth article from the source:
http://ns.umich.edu/new/multimedia/...ptoms-in-test-aimed-at-condition-s-root-cause
New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing
- Thread starter Hudson
- Start date
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._to_reduce_tinnitus_in_Guinea_pigs_and_humans
Smaller but in-depth article from the source:
http://ns.umich.edu/new/multimedia/...ptoms-in-test-aimed-at-condition-s-root-cause
Well the chances of it going to market are much higher than passing, and the chances of passing are pretty high. I'd say yeah it is, but we need to know how the next trial goes.
- Dec 27, 2015
- 373
- Tinnitus Since
- May 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Cochlear Endolymphatic Hydrops/Hearing loss
- May 24, 2017
- 1,622
- Tinnitus Since
- 05/2017 (H since 06/2017)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- long term noise exposure (headphones), maybe some stress.
Maybe a stupid quastion, maybe it has been answered, but....will the upcoming trail include people who do not have a somatic element to their T? I want this device to be tried on people with non-somatic T (like myself) to see if it has an effect on that as well.
No it won't. Reason is because we know that people with somatic tinnitus have it go through the DCN. But people who can't modulate don't always have it go through the DCN. Even if your tinnitus isn't somatic (which you mentioned you can modulate it slightly by biting down hard, meaning it is somatic), there's still a 33% chance it goes through the DCN.
- May 24, 2017
- 1,622
- Tinnitus Since
- 05/2017 (H since 06/2017)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- long term noise exposure (headphones), maybe some stress.
Yes, you remember correctly that I have had a small change in my T by biting down real hard.....or so I had....lately I can't modulate the sound in any way, not even biting down real hard.
What is DCN?
- May 16, 2017
- 3,754
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Syringing + Somatic tinnitus from dental work
@TheDanishGirl We had discussed earlier in this thread that can you modulate your jaw, but even if you can know longer modulate it, you still may receive benefit because you still would have facial activity.
Update: Just saw your post above. I do think that you will receive benefit from the Shore treatment.
Update: Just saw your post above. I do think that you will receive benefit from the Shore treatment.
- May 24, 2017
- 1,622
- Tinnitus Since
- 05/2017 (H since 06/2017)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- long term noise exposure (headphones), maybe some stress.
Well, I guess only time will tell if it will work not.....but I don't think I am putting my hopes up for this device to work for me, or others with NON-somatic T. I think the likeliness is very VERY slim. Frequency Therapeutics is the horse I am betting on.
Dorsal Cochlear nucleus. It's the part of the brain that translates Cochlear signals into brain signals. In most cases of tinnitus, it fires signals into the brain, causing tinnitus.
It also gets info from some body parts like the neck and head. That's why if you can modulate tinnitus by modulating this, the tinnitus goes through DCN.
- May 16, 2017
- 3,754
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Syringing + Somatic tinnitus from dental work
@TheDanishGirl The New University of Michigan studies may greatly help many. For some of us the rhythm and reason for our tinnitus can be complicated regardless of knowledge.
I have had too different cases with T. With my second case I'm not sure how lessor added hearing loss plays into my new whiplash T that also uncovered degenerative disease from past physical lifestyle and aging. I'm wasn't able to modulate at first, then some modulation from only movements. With my newer T, I tried certain treatments where my levels fall, but I soon found those treatments not to be lasting. Just lots of confusion for me, but I know that I need to get a curve back into my c spine.
For yourself and many others the Susan Shore treatments may help. Just to name a few, others may get some relief from laser, notched music and trigger point therapies, certain medications, diet changes and vitamins if needed. Mindfulness techniques. Holding the jaw in a relaxed position.
I have had too different cases with T. With my second case I'm not sure how lessor added hearing loss plays into my new whiplash T that also uncovered degenerative disease from past physical lifestyle and aging. I'm wasn't able to modulate at first, then some modulation from only movements. With my newer T, I tried certain treatments where my levels fall, but I soon found those treatments not to be lasting. Just lots of confusion for me, but I know that I need to get a curve back into my c spine.
For yourself and many others the Susan Shore treatments may help. Just to name a few, others may get some relief from laser, notched music and trigger point therapies, certain medications, diet changes and vitamins if needed. Mindfulness techniques. Holding the jaw in a relaxed position.
ManagerSame thing here, I was able to modulate it by biting down when chewing my food or by yawning and opening my mouth real hard. But lately I cannot modulate it in any way.
Anyone else here who was able to modulate their tinnitus and can no longer do that?
- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
I think we are too focused on whether or not your T is somatic or not. This device uses a somatic pathway to get to that part of the brain where the magic happens. That doesn't mean your T needs to be somatic. It is just a method currently used to separate T types and focus their research. If you can teach the brain to ignore the frequency, it really doesn't matter if your T is caused by stress, a bad neck, jaw, noise, or drugs. The brain is the final chain of command.
Agreed, but you make it sound so easy!
I wish it was that easy. We shall see, but this I think is one of the most promising treatments, specifically targeting tinnitus and not hearing loss.
It's gonna begin in late August (late summer but the earlier the better). It's probably gonna go through the same 4 week trial-washout-switch-washout system that it originally did, but this time it's gonna be in 6 week intervals. Meaning instead of 16 week trial, it's going to be 24 weeks. This means the trial may end in February 2019 and we get results then, but Susan Shore said in an email to another user here that we can expect an end in "a year and a half" from February 2018, suggesting latest results could happen in August 2019. So anywhere in between then. Sadly yeah it's 50 participants. I don't know why they're only doing 50 when the minimum for a pivotal trial is 150 but maybe they got an exemption. They seem to have a firm understanding of the FDA process.
- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
The small Trial numbers are because these devices require significant personalization and they have a limited amount produced. For my trial with a similar device I will spend over two hours with an audiologist programming my t frequency for example. Ultimate when these are released they will probably not be direct to consumer but rather similar to hearing aids and require significant professional set up.
- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
Agreed, but you make it sound so easy!
The University of Minnesota study I am in, has noted it has been able to increase hearing from the brain at least in animal testing. Analogous (but not the same) to the increased hearing of blind individuals. They have received a grant that specifically looks at combining devices like this to lower tinnitus and improve hearing. I know this is a taboo topic for some. But some unpublished data I have been exposed to (it's fine to talk about) is suggesting that stress is a factor in the effectiveness of these types of treatments. Similar to the findings of how meditation can induce neural plasticity, these devices are more effective when patients have shown lowered stress (this was in animals where they were inducing stress with electrical currents so take from it what you will) but the idea will be moving these to holistic therapies. Think acupuncture or massage with tinnitus stimulus and electricity...the future is close!
On a side note @threefirefour I learned the timing for these devices is based on EEG measurements. So factor that into why the trials are so small also.
I'm going with the thought that in the mix of 50 people one would have irregular T figuring that one does not know really what he has or maybe he might know and that will change the design of who it works for.
Personally I hope they don't. We just don't know if it will work on non-somatic sufferers. I think we should first focus on the target group, somatic suffers, then after that trial after the device is on the market we should test non-somatic sufferers to see if it's effective for them.
Can someone explain the different from somatic and non somatic?
From what I understand if your tinnitus is modulated by neck, jaw and face muscles it is somatic. Like when I yawn or turn my neck I here at a new tone. So I guess i'm in the somatic camp.
From what I understand if your tinnitus is modulated by neck, jaw and face muscles it is somatic. Like when I yawn or turn my neck I here at a new tone. So I guess i'm in the somatic camp.
Yeah pretty much. I wonder if being able to move your arms qualifies as somatic, but Susan Shore specified she's looking for face-modifiers, so idk.
I read a paper that said the neck, jaw and face muscles share connections with the auditory nerve but can't find it.
Ok, here's the short answer to my original question:
'They haven't tried the device on those types of tinnitus so they don't know.'
Now, I would love to be optimistic and think it'll work even on patients who were using psychopharmaceuticals (benzodiazepines e.g.) for a long time, but when it comes to tinnitus I hardly ever am a possitive thinker.
Side note: "...Benzodiazepines can be highly addictive and, as Haslam discovered, withdrawal from them can be agony – more difficult than with heroin..." (Hicks, Ch., 1999)
Discussion: There is a LARGE number of people worldwide who have severe tinnitus and have to be on some kind of tranquilizers to help them cope with this condition. Then you have idiotic psychiatrists who don't know how to dose properly, what interactions between your drugs are, they don't monitor you as they should be (hearing in our case e.g.), and in my own sad experience have almost 0 idea how to properly withdraw you from them!
Note: If worse comes to worse and something tragic happens, they will always pull off one of these excuses: "Well, but he already had tinnitus; He/she was mentally unstable; psychosis.. aaall kiiinds of excuses in their defence. The simple truth could just very well be that your tinnitus got worse due to a toxic (read poisoning) adverse reaction to the drug(s) you have been prescribed by your doctor (it's their job to know what it can do to your body, not yours).
Conclusion: All in all, if you are one of those poor tinnitus sufferers who have been clinging onto the hope that Susan Shore's device might alleviate your tinnitus one day, well this could (not 100% is) be sad news for us. I certainly don't want to be fear mongering here but I trust in facts and data. Knowing what I know about psychopharmaceutics makes me sceptical and very sad that this device may no longer be of help for patients receiving treatment with psychopharmaceutical agents. Short term ok, long term = bad.
Some sources to back up my claims and fears:
- https://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha03.htm
- https://www.benzo.org.uk/busto.htm
- https://www.tinnitusformula.com/library/ototoxicity-medications-that-cause-tinnitus/ (antidepressants + also be careful with Pregabalin/Lyrica)
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