New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing
- Thread starter Hudson
- Start date
Member
- Feb 17, 2017
- 10,400
- Tinnitus Since
- February, 2017
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic Trauma
Wow that is brutal! She's like the lead on all this bi modal stuff and I really feel like she's got something.. but 7years??
Fabrikat
Member
- May 1, 2017
- 416
- Tinnitus Since
- 1973
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
I've said this before in another thread, but I'd really like @kelpiemsp to comment as he has some experience now with this device.
If all these various devices are based on the same mode of function, then they should be interchangeable. That is, if you split the wire on Neuromod's tongue stimulator into two and attached them onto the back of the neck, you would essentially have Susan Shores device. wouldn't you? And if you did vice versa to Shores device and attached a tongue stimulator, then you would have Neuromod's machine. They operate in the same way, but stimulate different nerve pathways. I don't see what's different between the two. Or is it more complicated than that?
If all these various devices are based on the same mode of function, then they should be interchangeable. That is, if you split the wire on Neuromod's tongue stimulator into two and attached them onto the back of the neck, you would essentially have Susan Shores device. wouldn't you? And if you did vice versa to Shores device and attached a tongue stimulator, then you would have Neuromod's machine. They operate in the same way, but stimulate different nerve pathways. I don't see what's different between the two. Or is it more complicated than that?
We don't know the proprietary nature of their respective nerve stimulation techniques or the method behind their individual sound profiles.
Fabrikat
Member
- May 1, 2017
- 416
- Tinnitus Since
- 1973
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
It'd be great to find out exactly what is different about each of the three signal timing devices. Especially since they've all sprung from the same original research discovery that came out of the University of Minnesota.
Once Neuromod's study gets published, we might be able to. The Michigan team's study from last January has a fair bit of detail on how their device works, we should be able to compare.
Yea I kinda mentally gave up on this when I learned they started pre-clinical prior to 2013
- Feb 17, 2017
- 10,400
- Tinnitus Since
- February, 2017
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic Trauma
I have no idea how the date when they make their treatment available to patients, depends on the date when they get to publish their findings.
If this is how the medical industry works we can be thankful that Neuromod is moving forward aggressively on the backs of only limited test-results. I'd rather get my hands on something unproven as long as it doesn't make things worse in the hopes it will work than to wait 3+ years for something that has more certainty.
https://www.ata.org/podcasts/episode-7-breakthrough-using-multisensory-stimulation-reduce-tinnitus
Here is the link to a podcast with Susan Shore explaining their research and the science how all this Bimodal Stimulation treatment works.
Here is the link to a podcast with Susan Shore explaining their research and the science how all this Bimodal Stimulation treatment works.
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It was proven that it is effective. If you saw his one hour interview.
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/q-a-tinnitus-hub-meets-neuromod-lenire.32369/
Yes, I've seen the video. Whether it should be deemed "proven" is really a matter of opinion based on the small prescreened sample and the level of credibility/trust in the company and its testimonials. That's really what this thread is all about, trying to determine through consensus whether this should be seen as the real deal or not, and if not, what it would take to tip the scales.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
Totally agree. Their goal is to make money for investors, give it to them, they withdrew their original product to put their limited resources into some of the largest clinical trials for tinnitus to date.
9 years in the making with some of the top scientists on board, but thank god for this forum where we can all share information.
Hopefully the end of "snake oil" has passed the window of opportunity for opportunists.
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
hard (impossible) to get FDA clearance to sell medical devices without published phase I / II first (and phase III, in the case of drugs).
If anything devices are easier to get to market than drugs and people should be very happy with the potential timelines for getting things things on the market. It's all moving much faster than any number of other things.
It's unfortuntate that there's no clean way to prove things work and get them out faster, but I'll take the current FDA paradigm over what you have in, say, a lot of the Eastern Bloc or even parts of the EU where there is basically no oversight, no licensing, and you have scam artists running wild. Put differently, I'd rather have no cure, costing me $0, than a "cure" that doesn't work and costs a dollar.
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@kelpiemsp
I hope your wife and you baby are doing well
I wanted to ask you how is your tinnitus right know ? Still improved ? Thanks a lot if you can answer.
Have a good day
I hope your wife and you baby are doing well
I wanted to ask you how is your tinnitus right know ? Still improved ? Thanks a lot if you can answer.
Have a good day
- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
Thanks for the shout out! Tinnitus is low. With some help from @linearb I've learned to easily sleep with no masking. I probably spend 5 minutes a day thinking/noticing my low tinnitus at this point.@kelpiemsp
I hope your wife and you baby are doing well
I wanted to ask you how is your tinnitus right know ? Still improved ? Thanks a lot if you can answer.
Have a good day
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
Glad your sleep is working out
To be clear, you feel that you have received some kind of significant and lasting effect from the bimodal stimulation?
That's pretty fascinating; if true; nothing in the literature I've seen to date suggests this happened with any of the research animals, or any of the other people in the phase-I with me.
- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
Yup, it's still there just not nearly as loud or intrusive! I know that my trial was based on Lim's work which went to Neuromod. I have met one other University of Minnesota person that has a continued effect, and it seems there are some Neuromod as well.Glad your sleep is working out
To be clear, you feel that you have received some kind of significant and lasting effect from the bimodal stimulation?
That's pretty fascinating; if true; nothing in the literature I've seen to date suggests this happened with any of the research animals, or any of the other people in the phase-I with me.
The literature actually suggests change can be permanent, and that efficiency becomes nearly exponential. That is 5 minutes of stimulation suppresses for say 1 hour, turns into 5 minutes into 2 hours etc (random numbers here). Norman Doidge's books are a great intro into this part of neuroplasticity if you are interested!
What is amazing to me is how it's so hard to drive plasticity towards a certain state (5 minutes for 1 hour, then for 2 hours, etc...), requiring a certain protocol daily (or multiple times a day)... and yet tinnitus can come on almost in one shot (in my case, I went to bed with zero tinnitus, and woke up a couple of hours later with massive tinnitus). It seems sometimes plasticity can just work along the lines of a "straw that broke the camel's back".
Certainly something I'm glad we are learning more and more about.
- Dec 19, 2018
- 108
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- ETD possibly, or neck and jaw, or maybe anxiety?
I was just thinking about Susan Shore's device. I'm curious if Neuromod's release (if it shows great success) will grant her more funding from places like the VA.
When she talked to the ATA on their podcast last year, she seemed really positive about it being commercialized in the next 3 years (by 2021). At least I'm hoping so lol.
When she talked to the ATA on their podcast last year, she seemed really positive about it being commercialized in the next 3 years (by 2021). At least I'm hoping so lol.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
I wonder what Shore's view is of Neuromod? Does she think that her approach is better/more efficacious? By the time her device comes out or even when the results are published of the 100 people, by then Neuromod will have been on sale for 2+ years. Maybe she is waiting on the peer reviewed data, maybe she thinks she can create a better device.
I mean what would be the point of all her work to bring a device like Neuromod if it's got the same amount of success?
And by then Neuromod may have covered their research costs and can sell it cheaper than Shore's? Going to be interesting to see what happens...
@kelpiemsp
I'm sure I've asked you before but on a scale of 1-10 what was your tinnitus before and what was it after? Do you think if you had the device longer you may have actually made it disappear altogether? What about the other trial participants, how much reduction did they get?
I mean what would be the point of all her work to bring a device like Neuromod if it's got the same amount of success?
And by then Neuromod may have covered their research costs and can sell it cheaper than Shore's? Going to be interesting to see what happens...
@kelpiemsp
I'm sure I've asked you before but on a scale of 1-10 what was your tinnitus before and what was it after? Do you think if you had the device longer you may have actually made it disappear altogether? What about the other trial participants, how much reduction did they get?
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