New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[Utdmad89]

I assume it would keep going down with continued use of the device? The study period was 12 weeks or so, wasn't it? I wonder if the reduction would keep going after a year of use.

I hope so. Hopefully there isn't a cut off point to how low the loudness can go.

 

[ErikaS]

I've come to believe it is the tone, shape, and the shifting of the sounds that contributes much more to my distress than the volume. If the sound itself wasn't painful in addition to being loud, it would be unfortunate, but ultimately something I could probably accept and move on with.

The converse of this and something that might explain the relatively limited change in TFI in relation to a 75% reduction in volume, is that if the sound is painful, it is still painful at a lower volume.

I totally agree with the first part of your post and can relate to the second part with my ultra high pitch sound. I'd like to think not only could loudness be reduced, but possibly intrusiveness as well. My ultra high electrical crap doesn't necessarily sound "loud", but it has a lot of intrusive energy that makes it painful because it's so high. So, possibly, once those cells/neurons are calmed down, that intrusiveness or painful aspect will calm as well and present more as a constant, lighter hiss. You know, those "I'm just left with a light hiss" success stories we all dream to be

 

[Jonno02]

I hope so. Hopefully there isn't a cut off point to how low the loudness can go.

I'll have this tried and tested. Will strap it to my back like a ghostbuster and use it 24/7.

 

[LGuapo]

This idea that perceived loudness does not correspond to suffering is such obvious nonsense. For example, a tone that was perceived at the equivalent of 10 dB SPL would not be noticed except in the quietest of conditions. And at the equivalent to 100 dB SPL would make it hardly possible to hear anything else. Obviously there would be a difference in suffering. So suffering is clearly some function of perceived loudness.

Now, someone might make a claim that suffering as a function of perceived loudness isn't linear, or isn't monotonically increasing, or some other claim. But such claims would be quite counter intuitive. And as such require substantial evidence.

At the very least, since it's indisputable that the suffering is some function of perceived loudness, it seems necessary to present what that function is if one were to claim something that flies so harshly in the face of intuition.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[PeterPan]

This idea that perceived loudness does not correspond to suffering is such obvious nonsense.

We found a clear relationship between perceived loudness and TFI when we looked at the cohort for the Lenire study. But I guess perceived loudness is not the same as loudness. I believe loudness can be measured reasonably objectively by asking the person afflicted with tinnitus if they can hear it in increasingly loud background noise.

Those who are particularly sensitive to tinnitus might say their tinnitus is louder than someone with the same tinnitus loudness as measured by the above technique, so perhaps that's why there is a disconnect between perceived loudness and the extent of suffering?

 

[LGuapo]

I believe loudness can be measured reasonably objectively by asking the person afflicted with tinnitus if they can hear it in increasingly loud background noise.

This would assume that the loudness of the tinnitus tone was independent of physical sound stimulus. I can assert firmly that, for me, this is not the case: I have multiple tinnitus tones, and they can at times be residually inhibited by physical tones that are perceived by me to be quieter than the tinnitus tone. This is to say that a physical stimulus tone that sounds quieter than my tinnitus tone can itself make my tinnitus tone sound quieter.

So not only are my tinnitus tones not independent of external stimuli, but they are not time invariant with respect to that stimuli. And so I think making assumptions that the subjective experience of the tinnitus tones should obey the same "rules" as the experiences of tones caused by physical stimuli is inherently problematic.

It seems to me that because tinnitus is purely subjective, there is no difference between perceived loudness of tinnitus and loudness of tinnitus.

 

[Nick47]

A friend in France sent me this.

In September: 13ème Colloque AFRÉPA Centre de Congrès Pierre Baudis – TOULOUSE.

 

[awake 44]

I hope so. Hopefully there isn't a cut off point to how low the loudness can go.

I have the same assumption. If 4 weeks gave 50% reduction, and 6 weeks gave 75% reduction, it is quite logical, to assume, that after 10 weeks you could achieve silence, or almost silence.

 

[EDDTEKK]

I can't wait for the launch of Dr. Shore's device. I hope to read some positive testimonials here on Tinnitus Talk.

I guess the device becomes available in the US market in 2024. I would love to see it earlier but I doubt it.

I hope it won't be the same kind of flop like Lenire by Neuromod was.

 

[Tomas80]

A friend in France sent me this.

In September: 13ème Colloque AFRÉPA Centre de Congrès Pierre Baudis – TOULOUSE.

View attachment 53793

I think there will be progress in September. Another graph! :/

 

[awake 44]

I can't wait for the launch of Dr. Shore's device. I hope to read some positive testimonials here on Tinnitus Talk.

I guess the device becomes available in the US market in 2024. I would love to see it earlier but I doubt it.

I hope it won't be the same kind of flop like Lenire by Neuromod was.

It won't flop like Lenire for thousands of reasons that have been widely described here many times.

 

[awake 44]

I think there will be progress in September. Another graph! :/

Your sarcasm is annoying me, to be honest. We have never had such thorough basic science done during the development of a treatment. I'm talking about Dr. Shore of course. If you have doubts, please keep it to yourself, as folks from Shore Lab might visit this forum. We should support them and praise in every way possible. They invested enormous amount of effort for this treatment, which has never happened in tinnitus research history. Keep sarcasm for the worst case scenario (if it turn out that the device is not very helpful, which I personally doubt).

But for now, we should be optimistic, or at least neutral. Other approaches in this situation is like shooting yourself in the knee during the battle.

 

[UHPTS]

I think there will be progress in September. Another graph! :/

I hate to be pessimistic but I think you are overly optimistic

Cheers.

 

[AfroSnowman]

If you have doubts, please keep it to yourself, as folks from Shore Lab might visit this forum. We should support them and praise in every way possible.

If negativity on this forum is going to throw researchers off their work, we will be waiting a very very very long time.

Plus what are they doing hanging out on this forum? Stop it and get back to work immediately!

 

[momus]

I'm new to this forum, and this is not about anyone, but I think everyone here has a desire for things that are scientifically proven. Just the facts, and not testimonials, not studies, just tell me when someone has something that works. I don't care how much money they have poured into it or how hard they have worked. Just let me know when something documented and proven works.

And people should have a healthy amount of skepticism, which is not pessimism. That is 100% of the scientific method. Don't jump to conclusions, and always assume the methods may not be correct. So check it again, and again, and again. There are too many snake oil sales people in the world, and too many very desperate people w/ this disorder. So far, people trying to come up w/ a fix for it are batting 000, and tinnitus has been around for ages. Mostly, we have workarounds just to keep us sane, which is better than nothing.

 

[Aschenherz]

For myself, Dr. Shore's device is my last straw. I know, this sounds irrational, but this is what keeps me away from fulfilling bad intentions.

 

[Watasha]

For myself, Dr. Shore's device is my last straw. I know, this sounds irrational, but this is what keeps me away from fulfilling bad intentions.

In my opinion, electrical stimulation of the ear is going to help a lot more people in more meaningful ways, so I wouldn't bet the farm on Dr. Shore's device.

 

[dj_newark]

In my opinion, electrical stimulation of the ear is going to help a lot more people in more meaningful ways, so I wouldn't bet the farm on Dr. Shore's device.

I'm betting the farm. I've got the whole damn plantation on the line for this.

 

[Jonno02]

In my opinion, electrical stimulation of the ear is going to help a lot more people in more meaningful ways, so I wouldn't bet the farm on Dr. Shore's device.

Thing is, there will always be something better around the corner.

The Michigan device is the only tangible treatment on the way though.

 

[BTaylor12]

I'm betting the farm. I've got the whole damn plantation on the line for this.

Yup. Dr. Shore, name your price and here is my money.

 

[KoolKat]

Thing is, there will always be something better around the corner.

The Michigan device is the only tangible treatment on the way though.

That's what I'm saying man, if Dr. Shore's device works, that opens the door; we will never have any more issues with this tinnitus crap. Never will we ever again have to worry about getting spikes or uncontrollable tinnitus.

And to top it all off, Dr. Shore can always make major improvements in the future, and rival companies can always make something better.

I hope like heck that the device works.

 

[Mentos]

Is there any way to know in which scientific journal Dr. Susan Shore submitted her paper for publication? We could check the rating and understand how prestigious it is.

 

[Nick47]

Is there any way to know in which scientific journal Dr. Susan Shore submitted her paper for publication? We could check the rating and understand how prestigious it is.

The previous study was published in "Science Translational Medicine".

 

[ajc]

The previous study was published in "Science Translational Medicine".

That's not necessarily indicative of where the second study will be published in. If the results are this awesome, they might want to publish in a higher tier journal. Science Translational Medicine is pretty good though, ranking #26 on this list, but they might still want to aim higher.

@dj_newark will figure it out!

 

[Nick47]

That's not necessarily indicative of where the second study will be published in. If the results are this awesome, they might want to publish in a higher tier journal. Science Translational Medicine is pretty good though, ranking #26 on this list, but they might still want to aim higher.

It may be a different journal as it's human to human, rather than the animal-human it initially was.

 

[PeterPan]

Just let me know when something documented and proven works.

Not so easy as there are many treatments that "work" according to the scientific studies, but don't seem to work in practice. That's why forums such as these are valuable as they can provide a consensus (taking into account multiple perspectives) on the value of a treatment.

 

[Nick47]

You can go to Google Scholar and set alerts for an author.

Susan Shore has previously published in Neuroscience and Hearing Research as well as the previously mentioned Science Translational Medicine.

 

[Nick47]

The sounds that the device plays are not very special, I believe it's basically a fat, broadband square wave across the entire hearable spectrum

The above was from a participant and well-respected member here, who participated in the first trial. I don't know if this sheds any light on "multi-tonal cases", but if that's what he heard, it suggests it's not a specifically matched tone to your tinnitus...

Or am I missing something?

 

[T Toledo OH]

The above was from a participant and well-respected member here, who participated in the first trial. I don't know if this sheds any light on "multi-tonal cases", but if that's what he heard, it suggests it's not a specifically matched tone to your tinnitus...

Or am I missing something?

What was this member's experience? Was it helpful?

 

[Nick47]

What was this member's experience? Was it helpful?

Yes, the member is @linearb.