New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing
- Thread starter Hudson
- Start date
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Great, thanks, I'll take advantage of that. If the device helps, you can come to Oktoberfest with us, I live 20 minutes from Munich. You'll get 16 days of food and drinks for free from me. Then you have to place the electrodes of the device on your liver
My pleasure my friend.Great, thanks, I'll take advantage of that. If the device helps, you can come to Oktoberfest with us, I live 20 minutes from Munich. You'll get 16 days of food and drinks for free from me. Then you have to place the electrodes of the device on your liver
Just came here to say that whenever you wonder if Dr. Shore's device works or not, remember that we have never had a device which is based on pure science and is developed by a legit scientist who has scientifically proven that her magic lowers tinnitus objectively.
silenceismusic
Member
- Jul 17, 2023
- 8
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011, healed 2015, returned 2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma / hearing loss
Yep, so far most "experts" only measure emotional reaction to tinnitus instead of the tinnitus itself. Imagine if that was the way we treat cancer.
I, like many others here, like to visualise what the future might be for tinnitus treatment in coming decades. I believe the therapies, management, habituation, emotional response stuff and even sound therapies will always have a place in tinnitus treatment, but when multiple real treatments start to happen in the real world, all that stuff is going to take a back seat. But tinnitus is such a complex phenomena with apparently so many different possible causes, it is quite hard to see a future where any simple pill or treatment would eradicate all tinnitus to such a degree that we would throw all the management tools collectively in the trash. If there ever was a tinnitus treatment (or multiple) that would erase tinnitus from the planet, then of course soon we would forget that sound therapies or habituation was ever a thing. But that's just not realistic with the elusive nature of tinnitus.
This is how I see things happening eventually: hearing regenerative treatments will be the major breakthrough and revolution. But it won't address all cases of tinnitus obviously, so suppressive medications, Auricle device, things of this nature if they work, will have a great use for many, and of course will be available far before hearing regenerative means. And then there will probably always be some odd cases whose tinnitus just wont seem to heal no matter the treatment. But this number could eventually be very low.
And then of course it will be interesting to see how expensive the treatments will be, especially hearing regenerative ones. Will it be a rich man's cure or will it be somewhat affordable?
A bit off-topic, but yeah, hopefully in 5 years we start to see multiple treatments, mainly Auricle and some of the drugs. And then some day the big lottery winner hearing regeneration.
Some of us are in both groups simultaneously. I have a narrowband sound related to my TMJ that I can modulate, but I have multiple broadband sounds from an acoustic trauma that I can't modulate. I submitted a question to Dr. Shore Q&A that wasn't answered asking if tinnitus is fundamentally just one thing. If it's all just fusiform cells firing, then it shouldn't matter.
I'm too drained to read through all the results again but is the consensus that there is a group of people for which the treatment didn't work? How do we know that everyone didn't benefit at least a little bit? Nobody here has the "by person" individual results...
I'm going to get a cochlear implant in that case, I don't care my having no hearing loss or what anyone on Tinnitus Talk says is an appropriate or inappropriate way to treat tinnitus.
My older brother had a cochlear implant put in on his right ear which was completely deaf (with tinnitus) after a scuba diving mishap.
He now has some hearing in the ear (albeit mechanical sounding), but the tinnitus remains.
Just thought you should know. Take care
OK, here is one section of the second study that speaks in part (although not directly) to your question. They state that "Decreases in tinnitus loudness level ... correlated significantly with the TFI score decrements." They also state that a decrease in TFI score of more than 13 points was considered clinically significant. One might guess (but it's not specifically stated) there were participants who did show a smaller decrease in both TFI score and corollary loudness level.
Another salient section discusses ITT (The Intention-To-Treat, i.e., every participant randomized to receive the clinical treatment) and PP (per-protocol, i.e., patients were fully compliant, optimal treatment achieved). Here, during washout phase TFI score continued to decline. What is not stated is whether those patients who did not achieve reduction of 13 points on TFI also continued to decline or even had any decline. Again, I'll guess -- just a guess -- this may have been the case. But, I didn't see anything in the study that spoke directly to that point. However, the report does state, "Changes in overall (emphasis mine) TFI scores in PP population." If that is the mean reduction, as I think is implied, then it includes all PP patients (those who fully complied with protocol). So, logic dictates (as Spock might say) that since 65% of patients showed at least 13 points reduction in TFI, some patients achieved more than 13 points reduction and other patients achieved less. Please, correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Also, it's worth pointing out:
EDIT:
I forgot to look at the confidence interval, indicated as 95% (which is usual) and ranging from -16 points to -10.5 points. My statistics are so rusty that perhaps someone can speak to what those -16 and -10.5 points mean in this situation. Thanks!
- Dec 7, 2018
- 554
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown
Just wait for electrical stimulation of the ear to be developed before doing something like that.
- Dec 7, 2018
- 554
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown
There's no way to tell. I'd guess under a decade. Would be nice to know if the microchip they were developing is promising.
There are two doctors working on slightly different approaches to this. Sounds to me like they are 3-6 years away. Dr. Carlson is at Mayo Minnesota and Dr. Djalilian is at UC Irvine. There is a separate thread on this subject on Tinnitus Talk.
- Jan 16, 2020
- 438
- Tinnitus Since
- 1992
- Cause of Tinnitus
- noise? infection? negative stress? other?
Well, it's a good thing that you said that out loud. Maybe even more important is that there's no group that the device does something negative.
AfroSnowman
Member
- Jul 23, 2019
- 1,074
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Nonnatural energy source
SarahMLFlemmer
Member
- Feb 2, 2023
- 190
- 37
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/20/2022
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Accutane (withdrawl)
The study, Reversing Synchronized Brain Circuits Using Targeted Auditory-Somatosensory Stimulation to Treat Phantom Percepts A Randomized Clinical Trial, stated 3 people showed worsening:
Dr. Djalilian has one of the most promising lines of research besides Dr. Shore. I hadn't heard of the work being done at Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. I'll look up Dr. Carlson's work. Thank you for that!
Also, it looks like Dr. Shore spoke in France on September 8th and 9th and nobody made any mention of it (that I saw!). That was a little disconcerting. I can only think that she had nothing new to say in that conference!
FounderYeah, correct. She didn't present anything new there or at the symposium we all didn't already know about (I had confirmed this with her earlier).
I read in the Q and A that Dr. Shore could only attribute one case of worsening "possibly" to the treatment... I think in the other cases other stuff had happened.
I meant "available to us." Both doctors have ongoing trials at present. Of course, that is speculation on my part.
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